Let me take one minute on the soap box.

[RandyMN]

I thought I had heard everything but this last weekend took me by surprise once again.

I work with someone involved with Eastern Indian dance and offered to take photo's of an upcoming performance for her free of charge.

This event was a CARIFEST event that is open to the general public and free for all to attend. Of course the event went on all afternoon and the dancing was only three or four segments about ten minutes each.

So here is my gripe, as I was walking around with two cameras, I was approached by another man with a digital and video camera wearing an official hat signifying he was one of the organizers for the event.

He asked if I was a professional, and of course I responded that this was a freebie for some of the performers. He stated that if I was to take pictures then I should either offer all images to him for use on his web site or make a contribution to the organization because he did not want me making any money from my photographs.

Of course I already agreed to provide the performers with a free CD, but no way was I going to agree to provide him one also. I told him he could get anything he wanted from my web site and he then stated he would not pay anything there either.

According to him, the event cost them over 15,000 to put on and no way was any photographer going to come there and shoot pictures for profit.

According to me, I was doing a freebie and already volunteered free digital images for the performers, and from experience I know there will be no one buying images of a public event from my web site, so I'll be dammed if I'm going to pay him in the form of a contribution for the right to do something I am already volunteering my time and equipment for already.

I told him to contact the dance event staff and arrange for pictures from them after I provide them with the CD.

Is this what is becoming the social attitude towards photographers?

Now they want us to pay them for the privilege of taking photographs of a public event?

Okay, off the soap box and thanks for the opportunity to vent.

[Jim G]

Sounds like he has some sort of serious attitude problem - he'd have gotten much further if he'd been civil in his approach to you in the first place.

[RandyMN]

Sounds like he has some sort of serious attitude problem - he'd have gotten much further if he'd been civil in his approach to you in the first place.

You wonder what has happened in the past. Maybe other people with camera's took photographs and wanted to milk him for less than spectacular shots. I've seen this sort of thing at the bars where people bring their poleroid and charge.

Under normal circumstances I am eager to share with organizors of public events as I know they will give me credit for the shots as well as free advertising.

I am a bit worried about what happens if he does get any shots as I doubt he will be courteous enough to give any photo credits being he was taking his own shots of the event.

[egordon99]

Your providing the photography services AND giving the dancers a CD is already contributing quite a lot to the organization (kudos!) so not sure what the other guy had crawling up his behind. :lol:

I do alot of free photography for lots of non-profits in the area, and all those groups appreciate getting nice pro-looking photos from me.

[m33p33]

If they are free, they are free. Provide him the same CD you would provide the dancers (hopefully they are not full res.). Give him and the dancers a license stating that the are for Personal use only not for advertising or promotional use. Make sure that contract has both of your signatures on it before you hand the CD over.

Giving away pictures is one thing, giving away thousands of dollars worth of marketing material is quite another.

[stathunter]

When I have people approach me like that I always say I am with the press-----then ask for their name and take their photo--- it tends to push them to good behavior.

[bigjon0107]

When I have people approach me like that I always say I am with the press-----then ask for their name and take their photo--- it tends to push them to good behavior.

Are you truly with the press though? If not, it seems like a shady way to keep on shooting.

[amfoto1]

I really like Scott's suggestion!

But, if someone approached me like that - with dollar signs flashing in their eyes - first thing I'd do is find out if they are, in fact, part of the organizing management for the event. If so, then I'd wish them good luck and turn and walk out the door. Then when my friends asked why there were so few shots, I'd tell them to take it up with the organizer.

Of course, I'd actually never be in that position because I don't start shooting without working out the details with the organizer in advance... ever. That way these problems are always avoided.

There are much more tactful ways to work out cooperation between an organizer and a photographer.

I've got a feeling this guy was planning to sell images and videos himself, and saw you as competition.

[stathunter]

Are you truly with the press though? If not, it seems like a shady way to keep on shooting.

I do freelance for many different papers. Outside of wedding season I attend a lot of events that I had not talked to the papers about if I get good shots I know I can sell them to most of the papers.
Typically the response from most places is pretty pleasant. When approached I simply say media and then amazingly you see the red carpet rolled out for you--- typically they want to feed me and pamper me. I think they want good things to be printed about them.

[Mark1]

To me it sounds like you both are over reacting. Him trying to be the Big Shot even after you said it was for free. And you for reacting to him protecting his investment.

[bigjon0107]

I do freelance for many different papers. Outside of wedding season I attend a lot of events that I had not talked to the papers about if I get good shots I know I can sell them to most of the papers.
Typically the response from most places is pretty pleasant. When approached I simply say media and then amazingly you see the red carpet rolled out for you--- typically they want to feed me and pamper me. I think they want good things to be printed about them.

Ok, just be careful and make sure you behave professionally (not accusing you of anything at all). I have had to deal with people saying they were with the "press" and the people assumed they were with my paper (i am the Chief Photog/Photo Editor at my paper), well needless to say they were not being professional and it caused some major PR work to be done with that organization. Just dont throw the words "press" or "media" around as a rebuttal, when in cases you may not be.

But yes, usually people will love the publicity. They look at an article or image as free advertising or publicity (which in a way it is), so they will usually work with you if it is a small event.

[RandyMN]

To me it sounds like you both are over reacting. Him trying to be the Big Shot even after you said it was for free. And you for reacting to him protecting his investment.

Thanks to all for the feedback.

Personally I do not feel I overreacted at all. I did not explain to him the way I explained it here to this forum. I was polite, tactful and offerred the photo's to him through someone we both knew. I think out loud here as I know I'm surrounded by others who can understand. The organizor most likely would never understand my perspective so I did not attempt to explain it to him.

My agreement was with the person organizing the dances. It was not a signed contract as we work together and it was sort of a mutual agreement as she was providing the subject while I provided the photographs.

Funny thing is that the same gentleman approached my wife also using the same lines. She had her Panasonic camera without carrying any big lenses, so I wonder if perhaps this organizor hasn't had bad experiences in the past.

I would never walk out unless I was kicked out as I still had a verbal agreement with my co-worker. In the end she got her shots, I got mine and the event organizor was given a business card and I left the photos available from SMUGMUG to allow him to right click and save them if he wishes.

Perhaps this will not be the full resolution image, but it will make him happy because he'll get his shots also and will most likley use them on his web site, which I don'y really care as this was a public event.

[basroil]

I'd suggest one thing that will make everything better. Along with EVERYONE's photos, you provide a terms of use they have to sign. Basically it will say "you can use this for personal use and print off a few images for yourself, but absolutely no commercial use, no use on any promotional material or website." That way, you lose nothing, the organizers get images but no right to profit off of you. I've had problems with organizers before. They simply don't understand that they are supposed to run a business, and if they can't cover their expenses they are at fault, no-one else.