I'VE MADE THE SMALL TIME: Now What? - Licenses, Etc.

[Radtech1]

Yea Me! I've had an offer! Someone wants to buy some of my photos! Specifically, it is Eatons Ranch (http://www.eatonsranch.com) in Wyoming. Which is where I shot this, (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=49063) and this, (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=48268)and this, (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=47666)and this, (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=44957)and these, (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=43604)and, of course, this. (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=43114)

Marcia and I were guests there last September, and I had a wonderful time photographing when I wasn't riding. I sent them about 15 of my favorite shots just as a way of saying thank you for being such fantastic hosts. Today I got in a mail from them saying that they "are interested in purchasing the copyright for the photos you sent to me at the end of the year. We would like to have them in our files and available for use in publications, advertisements, etc."

I don't think that I feel comfortable outright selling my rights to the photos. However I would be very agreeable to licensing their use. One use however that I would not license would be that of framed artwork.

Since I've never crossed this bridge before the following questions are in my mind:

1) How do I copyright a photograph?

2) Where would I get a Licensing Agreement? Would I have to pay an attorney? If somebody reading this uses this type of licensing agreement, would you EMail one to me?

3) What sort of fees are standard?

4) What sort of duration should I allow them to use the photos?

5) MOST IMPORTANTLY: Is there anything in your experience that I am overlooking? Any question that I forgot to ask?

Thanks a WHOLE BUNCH!

Rad

[IndyJeff]

Yea Me! I've had an offer! Someone wants to buy some of my photos! Specifically, it is Eatons Ranch (http://www.eatonsranch.com) in Wyoming. Which is where I shot this, (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=49063) and this, (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=48268)and this, (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=47666)and this, (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=44957)and these, (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=43604)and, of course, this. (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=43114)

Marcia and I were guests there last September, and I had a wonderful time photographing when I wasn't riding. I sent them about 15 of my favorite shots just as a way of saying thank you for being such fantastic hosts. Today I got in a mail from them saying that they "are interested in purchasing the copyright for the photos you sent to me at the end of the year. We would like to have them in our files and available for use in publications, advertisements, etc."

Try not to sell the copyright. A reply stating that the life of the image may be very valuable and to sell the copyrights outright could mean a great loss of income to you in the future, however a deal may be reached for an appropriate amount.

I don't think that I feel comfortable outright selling my rights to the photos. However I would be very agreeable to licensing their use. One use however that I would not license would be that of framed artwork.

Rethink that, they may sell a ton of those photos to guests at the ranch. If they pay enough for the copyright, they will recoup their fees and you will have anice little nest egg

Since I've never crossed this bridge before the following questions are in my mind:

1) How do I copyright a photograph?

Begin here, US Copyright Office (http://www.copyright.gov/)

2) Where would I get a Licensing Agreement? Would I have to pay an attorney? If somebody reading this uses this type of licensing agreement, would you EMail one to me?

What kind of uses will it be for? You can't have an agreement if you don't know what they will be doing with the images. Find that info out first and then worry about an agreement. You kind of asking us, "Howuch should I pay for this car?" What kind of car? What year? How many miles etc...
If your signing over the copyright, I would definately get an attorney to do the deal for you. It will cost you money but, he should pay for him/herself in the long run.


3) What sort of fees are standard?

Again standard for what?

4) What sort of duration should I allow them to use the photos?

That depends on what kind of uses? Billboards? Magazine ads? Framed art work for sale at the ranch? Brochures?

5) MOST IMPORTANTLY: Is there anything in your experience that I am overlooking? Any question that I forgot to ask?

Yes, a lot of stuff. What uses, what kind of budget do they have in mind? Will you get a residual off framed art sales at the ranch? Will there be a photo credit on all media uses? Do they want the images outright or would they consider a full uses term such as 1 year, 2 years etc?


Thanks a WHOLE BUNCH!

Rad

This would be a good time to invest in fotoquote (http://www.fotoquote.com/) or similar pricing calculator.

[Big_B]

Don't have anything useful to add, but just wanted to say....

Congratulations!! 8) :grin:

[Scottes]

Geez, Jeff, after all that I really hope that nobody ever wants to buy one of my photos... Sheesh.
:-)

[Radtech1]

This would be a good time to invest in fotoquote (http://www.fotoquote.com/) or similar pricing calculator.


Jeff,

Thanks for the info - and for the heads up. I don't have time now (late for work) to really respond to your thoughts but there is one quick Q that I have. Assuming that you have fotoquote, are the results similar to this web based calculator (http://photographersindex.com/stockprice.htm) ?

Thanks,

Rad

[GenEOS]

For a guide on rate, you can go to Getty's website. Register, it's free. You can then find a similiar image and add it to your cart. You will be able to select many options for publication that will then spit out a price. Now, these prices may seem high to the average folk, but these rates are what Getty charges. I use this as a guide to get in the ballpark price range. I don't shoot for pie in the sky. These prices are geared to commercial clients. If you are selling to mom and pop in Podunck, Iowa who want a pic to put on a flyer, they are not going to pay Getty prices. So use this as a guide only.

What you will be selling is rights to use your photos in specific ways, dictated by contract. You should have a contract that spells this out. Model releases, etc...

Be cautious when introducing contracts and legallities to your client. If they are not used to these things, it can frighten them from doing business with you. This is where your people skills come in. You have to explain your business to them and why you require a contract...

Don't let all the legallity scare you off either. This is a way to protect your copyrights. In doing commercial work, you will be sharing high-res digital files with your client and or advertising firm. Your contract should protect your images..

These forms could be helpful in building your contract: http://www.editorialphoto.com/forms/
Check out this one in particular: http://www.editorialphoto.com/forms/shortformstock.html

Since you enjoy this place and it looks like a great place to photo, personally, I would discuss your normal usage fees with them, then offer to reduce them, for services at their place....But still keep your rate in the profit margin...

Take a deep breath and have fun....The business side of photogrpahy can be a real pain sometimes.. But, planning and good practices can help that a lot.

[robertwgross]

One company approached me and asked to use one photo of mine for their web site. It was sort of a once-in-a-lifetime solar eclipse shot, and that tied in with the company name. I thought about it and told them they could have use of it for their web site and any printed logo for a measly $200 (forever). They wanted me to give it to them for free. Ha!

Another company, a resort lodge, approached me and asked if I had any photos of their establishment (I had stayed there previously). I responded with three of my best, but what I sent them were little tiny thumbnails, and I explained the full size of the originals. I told them they could use any of mine for ten years on their web site for a measly $25 each. They claimed that they had no budget. Ha!

Companies like that have the right to ask you for your photographs for free. But then, you have the right to laugh in their face.

---Bob Gross---

[avwh]

The bad thing is that not all people ask permission to use your work .. That's why it's good to have licence.. and Radtech1 congrats to you too ! :D

I was thinking the same thing when I read this thread - nice that they want to use them in a legit way.

Congrats, Radtech1! Oh, and I LOVE your dusty cowboy shot you linked to - great job.

[ghostrider_9]

Congratulations on your acheivement. Please keep us updated on how all this works out for you. I am sure you (and I) aren't the only ones with similar questions and would be greatful to hear a first hand account of how it went.

[Binning]

Some really great shots in there. Congratulations!

[S.Horton]

Gang, the OP is from 2005 --

[Binning]

Well then, belated congratulations!

[Photodawg1]

Since it's from '05...Radtech...how did this work out for you? Final outcome? Great info in this thread.

[ghostrider_9]

Gang, the OP is from 2005 --

It has taken me this long to get caught up . . . :lol:

[S.Horton]

^^ LOL!

[Radtech1]

Since it's from '05...Radtech...how did this work out for you? Final outcome? Great info in this thread.

Thanks for the interest on the antique thread. Well, the direct answer is that I did license photos to the ranch, and have done so again, after subsequent trips.

As to the pricing, I did use Fotoquote ( http://www.fotoquote.com/fq-overview.html ) - as has been mentioned here. It is an excellent resource. Though I initially balked at the $139.00, it gave me the confidence determine a fair price without being wishy-washy.

Additionally, I picked up a copy of Business and Legal Forms for Photographers (with CD-ROM) (http://www.amazon.com/Business-Legal-Forms-Photographers-CD-ROM/dp/158115206X/ref=sr_1_1/002-8750599-3880819?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1192237234&sr=8-1)which is the best reference possible for releases, licenses, etc. And the best thing is they include all the forms on a CD-ROM so you can open them in Word, WordPerfect, or other text editor and personalize them without them looking like a "form letter" form.

Thanks for asking.

Rad