Setting up my official pricing, could use advice...

[Alexia]

I am finally setting up my official pricing. I have done some paid work in the past for mainly basic compensation, but I am going to move into part time paid work. I have no contracts or model releases typed up yet.

While this page is not officially finished, I could use some basic advice to avoid of the common mistakes that photographers run into. I decided to go with a flat rate pay rate instead of an hourly rate. My rates might be a bit high and I still fully evaluating the market in my area. A quick note about my section on free sets; They usually only happen when I with friends.

Note: Lots of changes have been made since this thread has started. Read responses to see the reflected changes.
http://www.nonamestudios.com/hire.php

[tim]

Change "ask" to "POA". I want you to come to New Zealand to photography for me, since it's only $20. "No Name Studios" is a generic, boring name. Make a brand. Make a market segment. Work out your specialty. you look like a gwc - a generalist who will shoot anything for coin. Your portfolio has no photos.

[Alexia]

Change "ask" to "POA". I want you to come to New Zealand to photography for me, since it's only $20. "No Name Studios" is a generic, boring name. Make a brand. Make a market segment. Work out your specialty. you look like a gwc - a generalist who will shoot anything for coin. Your portfolio has no photos.

Thank you for the comments, I have some things to add. This did make me think on how to flesh out the page.

NoName Studios is the name I have been using since 2000. It may be generic at first glance, but I have thought and money invested into it. Noname is also romanji in Japanese that roughly translates to Ride Photography or Lick Photography. It depends on context and how it is combined in a sentence, but I lean towards Ride. I do a lot of work for Japanese fandom/costumers. I decided to not display the name in Japanese since my target audience is mainly English speakers. I have done sets for quick a few Japanese speakers though.

My main specialty is portraits and people related photography. I need to make that more clear, but I will do other work if requested.

I had thought about the extra distance requirements and I would add a disclaimer about that. Mainly I would tell them to contact some one local is the distance is too far away.

I need to rename a few items in my navigation bar. My Portfolio section is currently my web site design portfolio and my photography is under Home for postings and Gallery for every thing.

[sevillafox]

How about "hire me for YOUR photo shoot." Checking grammar is always a good idea. And, I think your print prices are extremely low even my by midwestern small town standards.

[Alexia]

How about "hire me for YOUR photo shoot." Checking grammar is always a good idea. And, I think your print prices are extremely low even my by midwestern small town standards.

I will make that change and I probably will proof read it a few more times before publishing the page. I tend to leave tense off words and well, just leave words out. :D

I definitely could charge more for prints. I was go on the idea that since they already paid lots for me to be there to do the work I would give a discount on the prints. I have research hourly rates, but not print prices yet.

[NickSimcheck]

Where are you located? Tell us about the area too like population, income, etc.

[airfrogusmc]

Day rate or $400 That can't be real.

It should be at least twice that at least and that would be low. Sorry but no one will take no name serious with those rates. ;)

[Alexia]

Where are you located? Tell us about the area too like population, income, etc.

Harrisburg, PA area. Minimum living salary is $25,000 and median income is $35,000 in the surrounding areas. On that note, you can live very comfortably around here in a fairly well sized apartment for $350 a month. There are plenty of rich people that commute to Harrisburg and York though. In the major York, Harrisburg, Carlisle, and Lancaster areas there is a combined estimate of 160,000 people.

[Alexia]

Day rate or $400 That can't be real.

It should be at least twice that at least and that would be low. Sorry but no one will take no name serious with those rates. ;)

Not quite sure what you mean, but do you mean not list the hours at all? I could charge a day rate and say however long it takes. Then give a discount if the customer knows it will not take long at all.(Of course, not list the discount, but offer it if I feel I should.)

At least, that is what I got out what you said.

[LBaldwin]

What you need to do first is a CODB so that you have a firm idea of what you will need to charge so that you make an actual profit. Generally 30% over cost is a good starting point.

I have a few questions about your pricing structure. You quote a half day and day rate. Typically that type of pricing is for commercial shoots, products, food etc. Or for editorial shoots where the images are used for publication, then again usage comes into play.

So what you really should be looking at is the base time involved for commercial vs portrait. If you want a flat fee for portraits use the creative fee method and then price the prints accordingly. BTW your print prices are dirt cheap, by anyones standard.

If you want to break down the pricing structure list a commercial page and a portrait page.

If you think about it, the creative fee + print prices is the way to go for portraits.

Lets say for example that you think that the shoot will take 3 hours. If you limit your self to your half day rate of 4 hours you get $200 + the price of the prints. But the PS time, editing, and such are not accounted for, so a 3 hour shoot becomes a 10 or 12 hour work day. Then your pricing for prints will fail to make up for that.

So try this;

Creative fee (not to exceed 4 hours) $350.00 Creative fee over 4 hours is $650

No 4x6 prints
5x $15
8x $25
11x $40
and so on, no CD with raw images, no transfer of rights or commercial usage.
without permission (and further fees).

Travel and expenses are at market rates +30%. Extra computer time is billed at $100.00 per hour etc.

[Alexia]

Baldwin, that is some amazing advice. I am definitely going to be splitting the page into separate commercial and portrait pages.

There really are portions I am missing in the cost of doing business. I figured it that what I was pricing out would cover it even considering post processing time. Then I look around at the average prices I have found in the forums for highly successful photographers and realize how low I am even compared to them.

[airfrogusmc]

Not quite sure what you mean, but do you mean not list the hours at all? I could charge a day rate and say however long it takes. Then give a discount if the customer knows it will not take long at all.(Of course, not list the discount, but offer it if I feel I should.)

At least, that is what I got out what you said.

A day rate should be at LEAST A GRAND. $400 is what a really good assistant would charge a day.

I charge by the hour only. My day rate is my hourly plus ALL expenses and a seperate hourly for all PP which is at least 1 hour on every job I shoot. I only charge full hours. SO say I shoot 3 hours 15 min they get charged for 4 hours and all set up and break down is part of my rate. So they pay for set up and break down. The clock starts from the time I leave the office.

[LBaldwin]

Alexia,

One other bit of advice. Get the client to book with you because of your ability to create wonderful images NOT due to your pricing. Giving discounts to get business is a dead end street. This is because later when you find out that you need to raise prices, most will want to use another photographer.

A good indicator that the client can afford you, check out their shoes, cars and watches. If one of those far outweighs what you drive or are wearing - charge the crap out of them.

Also tape this to your computer, phone, PDA and or cell phone ( Raise right hand repeat after me;

I Promise to NEVER give quotes over the phone. Always give quotes in writing and only after fully exploring the project.
I promise to PAY MYSELF FIRST! Bills and expenses second
I promise not to UNDERCUT other photographers just to get business.
I promise to use written contracts for ALL work no matter how small.
I promise to charge for everything and leave no cash on the table.
I promise NOT to belittle others work even if the client does.
I promise to keep my rights under all circumstances unless paid very well.
I promise to walk away from bad business deals - even if it hurts. For example, all rights for access, comping images for bylines etc.
I promise to charge taxes legally for all products where it applies.

Just a few I am sure our friends will add to the list.

[NickSimcheck]

Alexia,

One other bit of advice. Get the client to book with you because of your ability to create wonderful images NOT due to your pricing. Giving discounts to get business is a dead end street. This is because later when you find out that you need to raise prices, most will want to use another photographer.

A good indicator that the client can afford you, check out their shoes, cars and watches. If one of those far outweighs what you drive or are wearing - charge the crap out of them.

Also tape this to your computer, phone, PDA and or cell phone ( Raise right hand repeat after me;

I Promise to NEVER give quotes over the phone. Always give quotes in writing and only after fully exploring the project.
I promise to PAY MYSELF FIRST! Bills and expenses second
I promise not to UNDERCUT other photographers just to get business.
I promise to use written contracts for ALL work no matter how small.
I promise to charge for everything and leave no cash on the table.
I promise NOT to belittle others work even if the client does.
I promise to keep my rights under all circumstances unless paid very well.
I promise to walk away from bad business deals - even if it hurts. For example, all rights for access, comping images for bylines etc.
I promise to charge taxes legally for all products where it applies.

Just a few I am sure our friends will add to the list.



I agree with everything you you said, except:

A good indicator that the client can afford you, check out their shoes, cars and watches. If one of those far outweighs what you drive or are wearing - charge the crap out of them.


Maybe I don't understand your point of view (as we all know that with text, the same words when spoken can have a different meaning) but to say that if somebody is weathly that you should try to rip them off is well... Not logical.

They have money because they are good with money, not foolish.

My advise would be to charge the same as you would anybody else. Then after they know you and the service that you provide, they become comfortible with you money will be a non-issue and you will gain more by simply providing more/better service to them.

What type of work are you focusing on? Sounds like portraits? do you have or plan on having a studio? if so -

I would suggest a affordible "In-Studio" portrait package which would be something like $495 with a $100 print credit. Say that it'll be 3 hours max, including post. People don't want to wait 2 weeks before they order prints, and if you are comfortible with it let them be there with you when you post... They will think it's neat, and they can order prints while they're still in the mood.

DO NOT put yourself in the class of Walmart or Sears. You are not a chain store that sells food and cheap furniture with your photos!! Remember, people are paying to receive an experence and quality of work.

[LBaldwin]

I agree with everything you you said, except:
Maybe I don't understand your point of view (as we all know that with text, the same words when spoken can have a different meaning) but to say that if somebody is weathly that you should try to rip them off is well... Not logical.



Hey Nick,

What I mean by that is this, I often have new clients that do not understand the costs of professional photography. They feel that it is point and clik just like it is for them. And they want pricing based on that opinion.

But for some folks often well heeled, they are looking for the cheapest pricing they can get. I try very hard to price my product according to what the market will bear, but in the Bay Area, there are several new millionaires, that are in a word - cheap.

For example, I was recently asked to do a first BD party and religous ceremony for a young family about two months ago. The mother and father indicated that the ceremony and party would be 6-8 hours, they wanted 350-400 images and group shots. They said that they did not want prints but a CD with all images and no copyright hassle. I indicated to them that I never give out CD's and that the labor for the shoot would be $850 + prints and would consider a CD for $350 more.

I met with them to provide a written proposal. The Mom and Dad pulled up in a brand spanking new SL500 convertable. After showing my book, presenting my bid on company stationary, he counters with $250 out the door take it or leave it. This is just one example, it has happened to me more times than I can count.

Perhaps business is friendlier where you live, but in Silicon Valley it is dog eat dog...

Oh BTW, the family had a relative do the shoot, He forgot to reset the ISO. He shot everything at 1600 on a Pentax dSLR. I saw some of the stuff, it has straps across the shots, reflections in glass, blown out highlights and group shots of relatives from outside the US - with their eyes closed. The client wanted to know how much I would charge to "fix" the shots. I refused the work and told him in no uncertain terms that his savings bought exactly what it was worth....

[NickSimcheck]

Yikes. Well there will always be people whom you simply cannot deal with.

Livingston county was #3 highest median income per household (we're in the teens now though thanks to our crappy economy) and the money here is old money, not overnight millionares.

Some of them clutch onto it (like the guy in your story) while others see a far greater value in their family then money, those are the ones who value and buy photography services around here.


I mean doesn't your kids wedding mean anything to you? How can you spend a ton of money on other wedding services which will be all over with after a day. Good thing you bought that $1900 cake!

I like to tell people that I'll give them $1000 if I can burn their photos and they are like NOOOOOO!!! What would it take? $2000, $5000? Funny how little it means to them until it's 5+ years old.

[Alexia]

One other bit of advice. Get the client to book with you because of your ability to create wonderful images NOT due to your pricing. Giving discounts to get business is a dead end street. This is because later when you find out that you need to raise prices, most will want to use another photographer.

Definitely! I still have to update my page, but I have seen that all over. I have been hit with the higher price or price discount issue as well.(Though, I always thought my prices were in line with the normal market.)

What type of work are you focusing on? Sounds like portraits? do you have or plan on having a studio? if so -

I would suggest a affordible "In-Studio" portrait package which would be something like $495 with a $100 print credit. Say that it'll be 3 hours max, including post. People don't want to wait 2 weeks before they order prints, and if you are comfortible with it let them be there with you when you post... They will think it's neat, and they can order prints while they're still in the mood.

DO NOT put yourself in the class of Walmart or Sears. You are not a chain store that sells food and cheap furniture with your photos!! Remember, people are paying to receive an experence and quality of work.

Thank you, that is very good advice! I have done that before, letting people watch me work on the photographs. I even had them asking for prints right on the spot. I also love they being there with me because some will even say if they want certain adjustments done.

[beattyphotography]

250x7=1750
1750x52+91,000

Hmmmm I would have done some more negotiating.