Are you insured?

[KennyG]

I have a quarterly get together with some photographer friends of mine and we met up the other day. This is something we have been doing for the last seven or eight years. We have a few drinks, a meal and discuss everything and anything to do with photography. Our wives get together at the same time, but we have no idea what they talk about. :)

Hot topic was insurance for professional photogs. Three of the eight there had experienced problems in 2004 that involved insurance (I was not one, thank goodness).

One may sound amusing, but wasn't at the time or later. A light head exploded and set fire to a suspended ceiling during a wedding reception shoot. Non of us could work out how it could happen, but it did. The fire was tiny and easily put out, with the damage limited to a couple of ceiling tiles. However, the bill from the organisation that owned the hall for the repairs and loss of earnings while it was being done was huge (a few thousand dollars). As the photog in question was insured for all liabilities the insurance company took over the whole thing and he had no further involvement, other than supply details of the incident.

Another 'hardware' problem. Again at a wedding (Bloo Dog, you reading this?) he had his tripod mounted 1Ds with 16-35L knocked over onto a hardwood floor by some kids running around. The drop was too much for the lens which snapped into two parts and the mirror box contents of the 1Ds rattled a lot, so he didn't even look inside. The insurance replaced the lens and paid for the 1Ds repair.

The point of this is, when I read posts from people starting up a part-time business to photograph anything from weddings to pets, I would like to ask if they are considering their insurance position. They could be on the receiving end of a claim for damages, or have their camera/lens do a nose dive into oblivion just as easily as the people above, who have more experience and expertise than most of us here. If you are being paid for your work then you must be insured accordingly.

I think the US and UK have similar conditions for their homeowner's policies where you are not covered for losses as a result of doing your paid business, even if it is part-time. You must insure your equipment separately and be covered for liabilities, especially when we seem to have lawyers under every stone ready to leap out and sue.

All my equipment is insured, including allowances for loans and I have £5m ($10m -ish) of liability cover. Mine is due for renewal in a couple of weeks and I will have to review the current costs of replacing any items that get damaged/stolen, plus check the policy has all the models and serial numbers correct. This is as much of a 'must have' as the latest camera or lens.

[Tom W]

Good post, Kenny. Even if one is a non-professional hobbyist, the loss or damage of photographic equipment is not always included in the homeowner's policy.

[GenEOS]

If your equipment is used in a business, most homeowners poilicies won't cover it at all.
Liability insurance is a good thing if you and your equipment is in a place it could cause bodily harm to someone.
Most sporting arena's won't let you up in the cat-walks or attach lighting unless you are insured to a specific amount.
Insurance is always a good idea. Better safe than sorry. It only takes one incident to ruin you finacially.
But, you have to get what you can afford. You can go broke buying insurance.....

I think this is almost two threads, liability insurance to protect the photographer and equipment insurance to replace broken/stolen gear....

[leony]

It is rather ignorant to not get insurance. It is an added expense, but a small business (like most photographers are) do not have enough capital to self-insure.

In US a couple trade organizations (PPA, ASMP, etc.) offer "group rates" because they have a lot of buying power, although each policy is individually written.

You can get insurance for: libality / loss of income / employee comp / property / anything else as long as you're willing to pay for it. A good insurance agent will be able to put together a reasonable policy at a reasonable price together.

I personally know a fashion shooter in NYC who was out on location shooting small advertising gig. Next thing you know his car is stollen with all his gear in it. $90,000 worth + cost of the car. This is what his anual income is - there is no way he would have been able to get back on his feet without insurance...which covered the whole thing, including rental of necessary things to complete the assignment.

And someone tripping over a tripod and falling is plenty of reason to get insurance for liability purposes.

A small business, simply put, can't afford to not buy insurance. It's not there to pay for your new flash when the old one takes a dive. It's there to prevent a minor catastrophe from taking you out.

[leony]

The guy was insured, equipment and all. The insurance covered all of the gear and a car.
The point is - what if he wasn't?

If my camera bag grows legs or takes a swim, I'm personally in no possition (financially) to buy all the things at once, and so I insure all my gear in addition to a general liability writen in on my policy. I might never make use of the insurance, but if I need to I know it's there and that the whole thing would be just an inconvenience and not something that will take me out of the game all together.

[CyberDyneSystems]

This plagued at ne for a while,. as fr reasons I won't go into,. I could not get Aprtment insurance..


Once I crossed the "coverd by homeowners" threashold anyways.. I could no longer sleep at nights.

It's all insured now.. and to the limits that pro policy offers. I take my gear to forighn countries,. it rides in the trunk of my car,. it hangs from my neck while I dangle over the water.. (or some cases when I'm actually IN the water) ... so it simply HAS to be insured.

If I were to sell it all I would easily have a down payment on a house... I can't let that kind of value tide up into something so portable ,.. somethig that can so easily walk away,... without it being covered.

[mikesd]

Equipment insured along with a buisness liability policy. Cant afford not to at aprox. $200.00 a year.

[RichardtheSane]

Good post Kenny

Insurance has always been importnat to me, so my equipment is covered. As I begin to see mroe clients I will be taking out specific liability insureance. Be foolish not too :)

[Scottes]

I've got my gear insured under an addition to the home owner's policy. They cover everything - 27 pages of invoices from B&H and others - even a $6 lens cap that was on one of the invoices. $155 a year for $13,000 worth of camera gear and $5,500 worth of jewelry.

Now the kicker was when I asked about accidental breakage, and the insurance agent told me that the policy didn't cover this, so if something happened "just report it as stolen. It happens all the time."

I was floored by that statement.

But I've been semi-seriously considering pro insurance since "just reporting it stolen" goes against my grain, and there just might be something else involved where this might not even be possible.


One question here, if anyone knows the answer... My wife used to work with a guy who does the "trained animal act" at a local Renaissance Faire. A few years ago we got to play with some 5-month-old jaguar cubs - just her and I in a large pen with five 45-pound jaguars. (Yes, they had to drag us out, but then we just went over to scratch the ears of a 450-lb adult liger [lion/tiger] but that's another story...)

Anyway, we plan on asking him if we could visit again with the cameras. Now if something insane should happen, would "pro" insurance cover a lion attack or something unbeleivable like that?

[ssim]

I was always just registering my gear with my insurance company as it was covered under my household policy. Then I crossed that threshold where I had more photo and computer stuff than everything else and I had to put it on a special rider.

I covered everything to the max. All replacement value (irrespective of how old it is) and covers me even if I break it. Around 35,000.00 worth of gear for about 500.00 cdn. Well worth the piece of mind.

[CyberDyneSystems]

Scotts

I beleive the policy I have would cover just such an odd claim.

Are you talking about just gear coverage for the attack? Or medical expenses as well?

I am insured through NANPA's group insurance policy for pro photographers,. obviously with a focus on wildlife photographers.

My policy covers essentially anything I could possibly do to the equipment in any country,.. short of saying "I broke it because I thought it would be funny"

So the eqipment is at least covered. Pretty much no matter what.

The coverage obviously covers the gear,. but like Kenny points out,. a good plan does more than just cover your lenses,. it is a comprehensive policy that covers all kinds of unforseen damages that I or any pro photog could get themselves mixed up in.

My guess is that most policies that are really geared towards pro photogs would be similar in this regard.

However... if you get hospitalized by the lions,. and you aren't in there with the lions because of a professional job?? Again I'm sure your gear would be covered... but you? I dunno.

[Scottes]

However... if you get hospitalized by the lions,. and you aren't in there with the lions because of a professional job?? Again I'm sure your gear would be covered... but you? I dunno.

Well OF COURSE I'll be there in Pro capacity since there's no doubt that my wife would have hired me to take pictures.
:-)

Actually though, ANY job should really be considered a Pro job since every shoot is building up the portfolio for stock photography. Or something like that. I would think so, otherwise you'd have to have been hired for any time you went out to shoot something.

[dpp]

KennyG, Can you recommend a good UK Insurance company? Its a minefield out there for this type of insurance

[vwpilot]

Check with your agents. I specifically asked mine two days ago whether or not I would be covered if my gear was damaged on a working job and he said it most definately WAS. I have a renters policy through Allstate and specific allowances for the camera gear.

I thought it was the other way as well and so I asked because I was going to change it over and stop flirting with danger, but he was very adamant that there would not be a problem even if I were working.

[Andy_T]

Same here ... does anybody know a good insurance in Europe that will insure photographic equipment? So far, in Germany I've only seen one insurance that takes a hefty 5 % ... Scottes example with the 13,000 $ of gear would run at 650 $ annually here...

Best regards,
Andy

[KennyG]

KennyG, Can you recommend a good UK Insurance company? Its a minefield out there for this type of insurance

Photoguard. No doubt about it, they are the best at the moment and used by a lot of pros.

[sGu]

Just spent nearly £500 on camera insurance with Photoguard, and I put your name down as referal, hopefully you'll get whatever benefit that would bring you.

Also if you going with Photoguard, use "P3000" as promotional code to give you 10% off premium, I didn't manage to do it, found out after payment already gone through :(

[jilliantodd]

If you join PPA, you still have to pay for insurance, right? It's not just included in your membership. Has anyone compared their own insurance rates to what you get through PPA?

[Vegas Poboy]

Great Subject line, I've shot for three years just with the basic PPA coverage and then this year one of my repaeat customers required a 2mil policy to do business with them so now I'm covered with everything. Just one of the expenses in being a pro.

[islandphoto]

Can anyone reccommend a good agency in the states? What about liability? Is that something to worry about?

[dpurslow]

Great post and YES you have to be insured. Here in the UK we are VERY P/C and more and more of my clients require Risk Assesment Documents before I can even go onsite. I have to include my insurance and Pub/Lib insurance with them. A pain in the ass to do but the up side is some of the "smaller photogs" dont carry this stuff or wont produce R/A Doc's.

[Mike R]

Can anyone recommend a good agency in the states? What about liability? Is that something to worry about?

Yes you should be concerned. In most States,even if you are registered as an LLC (Limited Liability Company) your personal assets could still be at risk under what the legal crowd calls "Piercing the veil" In addition to insurance you also need to demonstrate that the business is "Real", more than a hobby.
You do this by having a separate business checking account, using the letters LLC on all printed material, having insurance and being registered with the State, and by not having any co-mingling of assets (personal & business). The business must be able to demonstrate that it is sufficiently funded. It is also wise to keep business minutes although not required. Otherwise it can be difficult to prove that it is a full fledged business and your personal assets can be at risk in the event of a law suit. To repeat myself, being registered as an LLC is not enough. In my state registering is a 1page form and a $60.00 fee, renewable each year for $10. There is no sense in hiring a company to submit the paperwork for you. I am not an attorney, just did my homework before contacting my State.

[Converge]

I have all of my business insurance through State Farm

I have Renters/Liability insurance, also, to cover my gear, I have a seperate land and Sea (I think thats what its called) to cover theft and accidental damage of my equipment.

This covers my computer business as well as my photography business

[islandphoto]

How much of a deductable is there? I checked with State Farm and they said $1000! And they said they wouldn't cover overseas!

[coreypolis]

Tom Pickard's Group Insure www.groupinsure.com


this is a quote I was sent. You can obviously tailor it to your own needs.


Thank you for your interest in the Commercial Photographers Business Insurance Program. This Business insurance program is underwritten by Fireman’s Fund; AM Best “A” rated, and is sold nationally through the Tom C. Pickard & Co., Inc. Agency. Below is a brief outline of coverage's and options available to you:

Business Personal Property: $4,000
Coverage for general office contents bought by the business for the business. Betterment’s and improvements to your studio should also be included in the figure.

Desktop Computer Equipment: $2,000
Laptop/Walkie Talkies: $2,000
Coverage for desktop hardware and software you own. Replacement Cost valuation applies per schedule provided by you. Laptops & Walkie Talkies are rated separately.

Owned Camera Equipment: $8,000
Photography Equipment which you own while at the studio or on location. Replacement Cost valuation applies. Earthquake & World wide coverage included.

Rented Camera Equipment: $0
Coverage for Photography Equipment which you rent and are responsible for, Replacement Costvaluation, applies. Earthquake & World wide coverage included.
Property of Others: (Premises Only)$15,000 (Off Premises) $5,000

Coverage for product or property on your premises, in your care, custody or control. Certain exclusions apply.TCP &co

Comprehensive General Liability: Aggregate $4,000,000 (Motion Picture, Film & Video Liability not covered)Per Occurrence$2,000,000
Covers Bodily Injury and Property Damage for which you are legally liable. Certificates of Insurance naming the Certificate Holder as an “Additional Insured” are $25 per certificate. Other Coverage’s: INCLUDEDOPTIONAL

•Portfolio Coverage($3,000)
•Business Income & Extra Expense
•Rental Reimbursement (Included)
•$500 Policy Deductible
•Errors & Omissions$2,000,000 @ $150 Flat
•Workers Compensation $1,000,000 (call for rates)
•Hired & Non-Owned Auto $2,000,000 @ $125 (varies by State)
•Entertainment PackageNegative Film/Faulty Stock Hired Liability & Physical Damage Misc. Rented Equipment (See Enclosed Brochure)*Total Estimated


Annual Premium: $510
Please note:-Terrorism coverage included with estimate.- Premium may be paid in 4 installments over eight month period.- One-time $50 agency fee is additional to annual premium.- Rate is based on prior coverage with no losses OR no prior coverage.*(Actual premium may differ based on the total camera replacement value reported) Note:Coverage for camera equipment and or computer equipment cannot be effective until camera and or computer equipment schedule(s) are received by Tom C. Pickard & Co., Inc.

[islandphoto]

thanks for that :) it looks good. Did you go with them? Do they cover out of the country? Thanks!

[cowpix]

How much of a deductable is there? I checked with State Farm and they said $1000! And they said they wouldn't cover overseas!

I have State Farm with a $500 deductable. I have not gone overseas for a while, so can't help you there, but it does cover me in Canada. I recieved a proposal from Zurich Insurance a couple days ago, but have not looked it over yet.

[verty]

the guy i work for has insurance for his wedding photography business..
its quite expensive...

im thinking about starting up my own photography business part time and really dont think i could afford insurance to start off.. if i am employed under him however he said his insurance will cover me if i wanna start off on my own

[coreypolis]

thanks for that :) it looks good. Did you go with them? Do they cover out of the country? Thanks!
they do not which really irks me as thats the reason why I originally got it and was upfront with them about it. It wasn't until I got back the the policy details were mailed t me that I saw I wasn't even covered.

[coreypolis]

the guy i work for has insurance for his wedding photography business..
its quite expensive...

im thinking about starting up my own photography business part time and really dont think i could afford insurance to start off.. if i am employed under him however he said his insurance will cover me if i wanna start off on my own
you can't afford not to be. how much is too expensive?

[verty]

you can't afford not to be. how much is too expensive?


well i got one or two quotes.. they are close to the 3 grand mark...

if i was running a full time business i would pay it...

but im not...

[coreypolis]

way too much.

try group insure or Hill and ushire

and see this post on my quote http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showpost.php?p=2381839&postcount=28

[verty]

way too much.

try group insure or Hill and ushire

and see this post on my quote http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showpost.php?p=2381839&postcount=28

interesting
however im from australia..
and need an australian insurance..

[toddb]

I did a second policy above my renters insurance through State Farm. It's called a "Personal Articles Policy" and it's like $5.58 a month for about $5800 worth of photo gear and $3500 worth of computer gear. For that rate how could I not...I was afraid to take my camera outside until I got this. The agent said accidents like dropping it into the lake is covered with no deductible. Now that I'm thinking of moving from strict hobby to maybe part time work, this might not be good enough from what I've read so far. Sounds like I need a second business insurance as well.

[dzstudios]

Guys - we just got more than £10,000 worth of kit stolen. Outside a shop, straight from under my eyes. Didn't know what hit me.

A peli case with all our pro equipment in one fell swoop.

Yup - I know what you're thinking. Girls! Never pay attention while they shop!:D

Long and short of it is: I pay £540 a year on all risk insurance. (For the business indemnity as well)....

Its the best dang £500 EVER spent. Don't mess about - pay a bit more now, but buy the best insurance you can afford.

Better forfeit the price of ONE lense - than have no cover when the s***t hits the fan!

[hando]

way too much. try group insure or Hill and ushire and see this post on my quote http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showpost.php?p=2381839&postcount=28

I am in the same boat. Live in Australia too.
Does http://www.groupinsure.com cover Australian businesses.

Coreypolis, your location is WA. Is that Western Australia by chance?

I have obtained one estimate from Suncorp Insurance for $775 per annum for $10 mill public liability only. That's more than my home, contents and car insurances combined.

I have also contacted AON (http://www.aon.com.au/small_medium_business/photographers.asp) who are recommended by AIPP (oz institute of pro photography) but I think I will need to engage a solicitor just to complete there application forms. AON does public liability as part of their equipment cover.

Are any working Australian Pros here able to recommend an insurance mob for their fellow Australians? My needs are specific to accreditation issues for sporting and motorsporting events.

[coreypolis]

Sorry I can't help the Aussies, by try sending en email to groupinsure or Hill an Ushire, can't hurt anyway.

[TeeJay]

Guys - we just got more than £10,000 worth of kit stolen. Outside a shop, straight from under my eyes. Didn't know what hit me.

A peli case with all our pro equipment in one fell swoop.

Yup - I know what you're thinking. Girls! Never pay attention while they shop!:D

Long and short of it is: I pay £540 a year on all risk insurance. (For the business indemnity as well)....

Its the best dang £500 EVER spent. Don't mess about - pay a bit more now, but buy the best insurance you can afford.

Better forfeit the price of ONE lense - than have no cover when the s***t hits the fan!

Gosh, I feel for you - how was it taken?

Where are you based? and which company do you use for your cover - mines due for renewal shortly

[Dachbean]

I did a second policy above my renters insurance through State Farm. It's called a "Personal Articles Policy" and it's like $5.58 a month for about $5800 worth of photo gear and $3500 worth of computer gear. For that rate how could I not...I was afraid to take my camera outside until I got this. The agent said accidents like dropping it into the lake is covered with no deductible. Now that I'm thinking of moving from strict hobby to maybe part time work, this might not be good enough from what I've read so far. Sounds like I need a second business insurance as well.

Hey Todd,
You may want to check with your State Farm Agent about whether you camera equipment will be covered once you start getting paid for your services. The Personal Article Policy is only for Personal use items.

You may want to consider an Inland Marine policy (not land and sea as it has been referred to) This will give you proper coverage as the last thing you want is to find out after you have had a loss you had the wrong policy and you receive $0.

Your other option is to get a business policy which will give you equipment coverage, liability coverage, loss of use, and loss of income coverage. I received a quote from my State Farm agent and it came to $240 for $10,000 worth of contents, and $1,000,000 liability. Just a thought.

[kkhardwarestore]

I just read through this thread and it sounds like a lot of people bank on what their agent tells them their coverage is...bad idea IMO. Agents are sales people and often either are not completely upfront or guess when asked specific questions about coverage. It is OK when you are signing up but the day you receive your actual policy you should read every line and be sure you understand it, don't skip the 'definitions' portion of the policy. I suggest considering an umbrella policy in addition to your basic coverage. An umbrella is usually fairly inexpensive but will completely indemnify if something happens which exceeds the limits of your base policy.

I am not a pro photographer but have been thinking of doing some pro work. The rates for coverage mentioned here make me grin. The premiums for my current business are my biggest business expense. It is a small business with 4 people. I am in what is considered a 'high risk profession'. I just renewed and will pay $25K this year...I pay more for liability/errors and omissions insurance than my doctor pays for his malpractice insurance and I have never had a claim, beyond a couple of fender benders in company vehicles, in 15 years. I can't afford not to have it.

[CaptainShenanigans]

Insurance is DEFINITELY worth paying for.

My house was broken into before christmas and all of my camera equipment was stolen, my 20D, 16-24 f2.8, 24-70 f2.8, 70-200 f2.8, 50 f1.4, Speedlight 420EX etc..., along with me computer, and the big one, my hard-drive with 2 years of college work and personal photographs on it.

Everything was insured, except my photos on the hard-drive, and it was all replaced at the value we bought it at. Thank god! Some advice, keep ALL of your receipts and serial numbers in a secure place. My dad bought a fireproof gun safe that we keep files in, and we bought several hard-drives to back up photos with. I would highly recommend backing up your digital files in several different places (archival DVD's, hard-drives, and someone told me you can pay to have your photos stored on hard-drives throughout the country)

Take it from personal experience, insurance and home security is definitely worth every penny. BACK UP YOUR FILES!!!

[marcdpalmer]

Hi Guys, Im an Insurance Broker in Ireland in my spare time... I have been looking around for insurance in Ireland for mates of mine that are pro's and the ony thing I have come up with is http://www.photoguard.co.uk/ There are no insurers willing to insure photographers in Ireland as far as I know, unless someone can tell me different. Oh and for anyone in Ireland looking at Photoguard, last time I spoke awith them (about 4 months ago) they will not cover Irish photographers in the republic.

[RichNY]

While incorporating will protect you against major liabilities, and property insurance against equipment theft or loss, nobody has hit upon the most important form of insurance- long term disability.

We are more likely to become disabled and be unable to earn a living than die during our working years. Social security disability will only pay if you are unable to work in any capacity- so if you were earning $100k as a photographer but are able to work for minimum wage as a busboy Social Security pays you nothing.

If you are fully disabled you will earn less than $20k/year on social security disability- hardly enough to survive.

The only protection is a private long term disability policy which while expensive will pay you if you are unable to work in your specific profession (better policies) and if you pay for your premiums with after tax dollars the monthly benefits (usually 3/4 of your pay) are tax free!

If anyone has questions on this please feel free to PM me. This truly is the most sigificant insurance you can buy for most people.

[fortinaa]

Everyone mentions that you should keep receipts for everything purchased and insured, but I am curious what you do about the used gear bought here on the marketplace, ebay, FM, etc? Other than if paypal is used, there really isn't a receipt. Most transactions I've had were paid by certified bank checks. I've had agents tell me that as long as I have the serial numbers and photos or boxes for the equipment and can pull replacement costs online, I am okay. But, agents are there to sell you a policy, not get you your money when push comes to shove in a claim. What's the general consensus on that situation?

[Dachbean]

Everyone mentions that you should keep receipts for everything purchased and insured, but I am curious what you do about the used gear bought here on the marketplace, ebay, FM, etc? Other than if paypal is used, there really isn't a receipt. Most transactions I've had were paid by certified bank checks. I've had agents tell me that as long as I have the serial numbers and photos or boxes for the equipment and can pull replacement costs online, I am okay. But, agents are there to sell you a policy, not get you your money when push comes to shove in a claim. What's the general consensus on that situation?

Hi Aaron,
It's a good thing to track as much as you can. Can you get a receipt receipt for the certified cheque? Can you print a copy of the posting? Did you get the original box? If you can match up the amount you paid with a transaction from you bank account or credit card then this will help substantiate your claim. Also make sure your agent sees the equipment. If you are insured through an insurance agent (not a broker, and agent works for only one insurer i.e. State Farm, Allstate) then you will have better luck for your agent to go to bat for you with the adjustor.

I think if you are able to produce all this information then you will be fine if you make a claim. But again I highly recommend going to an agent and not a broker.

[WhatEyeSee]

Ive been looing into getting insurance, since my photography is a small home business and not covered by my homeowners policy.

I thought I would share the quote that I got from Farmers Ins. in CA

$592 Business Owners Policy Coverage which includes:

Package - Property
Contents - $8,000
Outdoor Signs $2,500*
Accounts Receivable - $5,000*
Valuable Paper - $5,000*
Employee Dishonesty - $10,000*
Fire/Tenants Liability $75,000*
Off Premise Personal Property $5,000*
Money & Security - $5,000*
Electronic Data Processing $10,000*
Media/Records $2,5000*
non-owned Auto - Included
Arson Conviction Reward $5,000
Business Income - Actual Loss Incurred
Business Pers. Prop - Seasonal Increase - Add's 25% Incl.
Fire Dept Service Charge $1,000
Fire Extinguisher Recharge - $2500
Increased Cost of Construction $ 5000
Lock Replacement $1,000
Newly Acquired Buildings $250,000
Newly Acquired Personaly Property $100,000
Depositors Forgery $2500

* Higher Limits Available

Property Deductible - $500
Wind & Hail Deductible - Policy deductible
Employee Dishonesty Ded. $500
Money & Securities - $500

Liability
Per Occurrence Limit - $500,000
Aggregate limits - all other occurrence - 2x Liability Limit
Aggregate Limits - Prod/Comp'l Ops - 1x Liability Limit
Contractual liability - included
Liability for newly accuried locations
limited World-Wide liability - included
Medical Payments - $5,000
Non-Owned Watercraft - Included
Owners Protective liability - included
Personal And Advertising Injury Liability - included
Products and Completed Operations - included
Premises and Operations - included
Spouse or Partners as Insureds - included
Supplemental Payments $250/day limit

------

I don't need some of the items on this policy like "employee dishonesty" as of yet, but as far as I understand this policy is a "whole" and I can not remove unwanted needed items.

Still looking into other insurance.

Hope this helps someone.

[Robuk]

While incorporating will protect you against major liabilities, and property insurance against equipment theft or loss, nobody has hit upon the most important form of insurance- long term disability.

Long term and short term is a must, as I've found out the hard way after a shoulder op 5 weeks ago. I don't have any income at all while I'm off :( and I'm looking at another three to six weeks until I'm fully fit to carry on as normal...........:(

Can anyone in the UK suggest any companies that would be good for this type of insurance???

Cheers

Rob

[jerrybsmith]

I checked with State Farm where I have my homeowners ands they wanted $540 a year. Doesn't that seem high? Does anyone recommend and insurance companies they work with?

[coreypolis]

I checked with State Farm where I have my homeowners ands they wanted $540 a year. Doesn't that seem high? Does anyone recommend and insurance companies they work with?
thats more than twice what I paid with them, but it all has to do with what they cover. For that price you can get full business coverage with Group Insure or Hill and Ushire

[jevidon]

Hi Aaron,
It's a good thing to track as much as you can. Can you get a receipt receipt for the certified cheque? Can you print a copy of the posting? Did you get the original box? If you can match up the amount you paid with a transaction from you bank account or credit card then this will help substantiate your claim. Also make sure your agent sees the equipment. If you are insured through an insurance agent (not a broker, and agent works for only one insurer i.e. State Farm, Allstate) then you will have better luck for your agent to go to bat for you with the adjustor.

I think if you are able to produce all this information then you will be fine if you make a claim. But again I highly recommend going to an agent and not a broker.what about shooting photos of the gear you own alongside that days newspaper so you have proof you had the gear in your posession? will that help?

[GerryDavid]

They could say you kept an old newspaper and photographed it yesterday.

[jevidon]

They could say you kept an old newspaper and photographed it yesterday.good point. didn't think of that. :lol:

[RichNY]

Long term and short term is a must, as I've found out the hard way after a shoulder op 5 weeks ago. I don't have any income at all while I'm off :( and I'm looking at another three to six weeks until I'm fully fit to carry on as normal...........:(

Can anyone in the UK suggest any companies that would be good for this type of insurance???

Cheers

Rob

Sorry I can't help you in the UK. In the US we have taxes deducted from salary that provides short term coverage automatically. It covers things like your shoulder operation and women on maternity leave.

It's the long term insurance where people are left on there own. If a photographer is making $100k/year for example and they become disabled for an extended period of time or permenantly they will be screwed. US social security wont even pay them any disability at all if a person could work part time at McDonalds for minimum wage. If they become totally disabled- lets say you go blind then you receive a small monthly check- perhaps $1500.

With a private disability policy that you pay for with your own money you would receive about 65% of your $100k/year salary and it would not be subject to tax. You would receive this even if you could work full time in a different profession than your original profession even if the new profession pays more than your original profession. (Extreme example- you go blind, go to law school and come out making $300k/year- you still receive full disability benefits on top of your current earnings)

[GerryDavid]

good point. didn't think of that. :lol:

And theres the method where you mail yourself something like photos or list of something, but you dont open it. Perhaps even getting the post master to stamp the seal to prove it hasnt been tampered with. So when you have to prove that the item is from a certain date, you just present the letter.

Apperantly thats not likely to work either.

[Sonic Infidel]

I'm finally insured!
I bought through State Farm, getting renter's insurance at the same time as my inland marine policy. I even bought the earthquake and flood insurance!

Now I almost wish something would happen...

[jevidon]

I'm finally insured!
I bought through State Farm, getting renter's insurance at the same time as my inland marine policy. I even bought the earthquake and flood insurance!

Now I almost wish something would happen...I just got renters insurance through state farm but the sales person told me that they were unable to handle my photography equipment if I used it for business purposes and that I would have to go through a different insurance company. can you tell me more about the insurance policy you got for your gear?

[Sonic Infidel]

That's really strange. The guy I went to said it was no problem and he does this for tons of local photographers. I just got the standard Inland Marine policy which essentially covers transportation of goods and your liability associated with them. For the purposes of the policy, your gear is always "in transport", even if it's not really going anywhere. (At least that's what was explained to me.)

If you're getting that kind of response, perhaps it's better that you go somewhere else anyway...

[Dachbean]

And theres the method where you mail yourself something like photos or list of something, but you dont open it. Perhaps even getting the post master to stamp the seal to prove it hasnt been tampered with. So when you have to prove that the item is from a certain date, you just present the letter.

Apperantly thats not likely to work either.


You don't want to go over board trying to substantiate that you owned this equipment. Photos are ok, but they don't prove ownership. I could take photos of my friend's equipment and say it's mine.
You want to be able to show receipts or a bank statement that coincides with the purchase.
If you have no documentation, it helps to talk to your agent and let them know of any purchases you make so that they are aware and even let them see the equipment. This can help back up your story in the event of a loss.

[Sonic Infidel]

When you submit a gear list to your agent, how do you price equipment? The price you paid, or the MSRP?

Thanks!

[ssim]

When you submit a gear list to your agent, how do you price equipment? The price you paid, or the MSRP?

Thanks!
I had to supply copies of my invoices but I also carry replacement value so that if the price has gone up I am covered. If the camera is not available I am supposed to get what I paid and then I cover the difference for whatever new I want to buy.

[Dachbean]

When you submit a gear list to your agent, how do you price equipment? The price you paid, or the MSRP?

Thanks!

You will always want to insure the items for what it would cost you to replace it. Even if the model you have is discontinued, you should insure it for what the most appropriate replace item would cost. As this is what the insurance company would owe you.

[EricL]

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=320546

Sorry, I had started a different thread on this subject. EricL

[MaDProFF]

So name a few Insurance Companies that people use for me in the UK please

[Joe_Photograph]

Hi Everyone,

I was reading everyones comments about insurance and found them all very interesting. I really don't think I'll comment on coverages, etc, as that should be discussed with a Pro, but read on and you'll have that source.

In Canada we've had an insurance broker by the name of Steve Hordos who has been insuring Photographers for about 20 years. He left the agency he was a partner in a few years ago and is now working for another one. During the time he was away, the office he worked for just let the program he developed go to crap. All they did was take away coverages and increase rates, deductibles, etc.

Then Steve resurfaced with a greatly improved version of his old program this spring. I had the pleasure of dealing with him again and am very happy for it. He improved dozens of coverages, introduced about a dozen new items all while REDUCING the premiums. What more could you ask for.

After Steve left his old agency, service just didn't exist and I looked around. Unfortunately, I just couldn't find anything else that compared for coverage or price to his old program, that is until now, welcome back Steve, our industry really, really missed you.

Steve takes the time to customize his program with each person, making sure you know what you are buying. His tips on how to avoid claims is also very helpful, but hey, keeping claims down, helps keep insurance available and reasonable in cost. Maybe it's claims that is keeping insurance companies from offering coverages in other countries?

If you want to contact Steve for your insurance (at least in Canada) you can contact him at shordos@jordanewartinsurance.com. If you do contact him and buy, let him know you were referred by me so I can get my referral discount on my policy.

Joe P
Canada

[danskim]

Online receipts are good enough for records, correct?
I bought the vast majority of my stuff through online vendors.

[ekie]

i called my state farm agent today (i have auto ins with them) about personal article ins on camera gear .. she gave me a quote of $84/year with $0 deductible for $5k of stuff. I made a list of what I want covered along with serial #'s and print receipt/invoices of the items. Just need to bring it in sometime next week to get it set up.

[StaticThought]

I have Liability, Personal injury and also all my kit covered. Covered while in transit etc as well as theft from unattended vehicles. I use Entertainment and Leisure Insurance.

[John Mireles]

For anyone who's interested in all the in's and out's of commercial insurance for photographers, I've got an article that I've posted on my web site that's available for download. (It will be coming out in a future edition of the WPPI newsletter, but you can read it here first.)http://www.photographerstoolkit.com/Resources.html Click on the "Primer on Commercial Insurance for Photographers" to download.

John

[mkuriger]

I just got my insurance today from Allstate. $8000 of insurance added into my homeowner's policy cost me $40 per year!

thanks for the idea!!

~mike~

[danskim]

Anyone do the personal property insurance from Countrywide?

[John Mireles]

Just be careful when adding property onto a homeowner's insurance policy. You're not covered for any liability and if the insurance company determines that you're using the equipment to make money, they won't cover it at all. Unless you're truly pursuing photography as a hobby, don't mess around - get a commercial policy.

John

[danskim]

Anyone get insurance from a company they don't have home or auto with?

[airfrogusmc]

I couldn't work without the liability 1 million 2 million. I had to show proof of insurance to even get in to the locations I work in. I also have replacement value on my equipment. I think its a $500 deductable.

[John Mireles]

Anyone get insurance from a company they don't have home or auto with?I have my Commercial General Liability insurance with The Hartford. My work comp is with State Farm and my homeowner's and auto is with Farmers.

John

[Uhland]

Some info for the non pro.

I contacted Geico (my auto insurance) and got $5000 renters insurance worth of coverage. $100 deductable for $85.
I dont need to provide a list. It covers everything I own upto 5000 including my gear. Jewlery upto $1000 per peice.

Makes me feel much safer.
Would hate to have to have my bag stolen.
My 400d, 100-400, 17-50.... uhg....

Only it will not cover if im being paid to take photos.
Which im dont so so it works for me.
They said I would need comercial insurance for that which they dont offer and Id imagine would be more expensive.

[meatbag]

does anyone have suggestions for insurance companies that cover companies that work internationally?

[michael_]

my insurance adds $150 premium per year to cover my gear internationally, have you asked your current insurer?

[bluesoul]

This is a great thread, lots of good information. I'm going to be talking to State Farm tomorrow about Personal Article coverage! I'll let you guys know what they say.

[arnaguedes]

Hello, did anyone know any europe insurance company who provide europe coverage, here in portugal i can't find any insure to my material.

cheers

Arnaldo - Portugal

[Alamode]

I let my insurance laps and then had my laptop stolen from home and my radio recever stolen from a black tie event I did in Wales it pays to be insured

[salexande867]

Does anyone have any experience with companies that cover your gear if you travel into Mexico? I know that my auto insurance is no good there, so I was wondering about covering my gear.

[pjtemplin]

this is a quote I was sent. You can obviously tailor it to your own needs.

Quote:
Thank you for your interest in the Commercial Photographers Business Insurance Program. This Business insurance program is underwritten by Fireman’s Fund; AM Best “A” rated, and is sold nationally through the Tom C. Pickard & Co., Inc. Agency. Below is a brief outline of coverage's and options available to you:

Business Personal Property: $4,000
Coverage for general office contents bought by the business for the business. Betterment’s and improvements to your studio should also be included in the figure.

Desktop Computer Equipment: $2,000
Laptop/Walkie Talkies: $2,000
Coverage for desktop hardware and software you own. Replacement Cost valuation applies per schedule provided by you. Laptops & Walkie Talkies are rated separately.

Owned Camera Equipment: $8,000
Photography Equipment which you own while at the studio or on location. Replacement Cost valuation applies. Earthquake & World wide coverage included.

Rented Camera Equipment: $0
Coverage for Photography Equipment which you rent and are responsible for, Replacement Costvaluation, applies. Earthquake & World wide coverage included.
Property of Others: (Premises Only)$15,000 (Off Premises) $5,000

Coverage for product or property on your premises, in your care, custody or control. Certain exclusions apply.TCP &co

Comprehensive General Liability: Aggregate $4,000,000 (Motion Picture, Film & Video Liability not covered)Per Occurrence$2,000,000
Covers Bodily Injury and Property Damage for which you are legally liable. Certificates of Insurance naming the Certificate Holder as an “Additional Insured” are $25 per certificate. Other Coverage’s: INCLUDEDOPTIONAL

•Portfolio Coverage($3,000)
•Business Income & Extra Expense
•Rental Reimbursement (Included)
•$500 Policy Deductible
•Errors & Omissions$2,000,000 @ $150 Flat
•Workers Compensation $1,000,000 (call for rates)
•Hired & Non-Owned Auto $2,000,000 @ $125 (varies by State)
•Entertainment PackageNegative Film/Faulty Stock Hired Liability & Physical Damage Misc. Rented Equipment (See Enclosed Brochure)*Total Estimated


Annual Premium: $510
Please note:-Terrorism coverage included with estimate.- Premium may be paid in 4 installments over eight month period.- One-time $50 agency fee is additional to annual premium.- Rate is based on prior coverage with no losses OR no prior coverage.*(Actual premium may differ based on the total camera replacement value reported) Note:Coverage for camera equipment and or computer equipment cannot be effective until camera and or computer equipment schedule(s) are received by Tom C. Pickard & Co., Inc.

Any insurance company who can't use the local language properly is an insurance company I wouldn't even consider. The plural form of coverage is coverages, not coverage's; they make this kind of mistake on other words throughout as well. Anal retentive? Yeah, perhaps, but it changes the meaning of the word and could bite you later. Case in point: my apartment complex has "rogers" in the name. In one of their lease renewal documents, they referred to it as "roger's". I asked the lady when I was going to get a key to my apartment at the "roger's" location, and she fixed the errors rather quickly.

[cowpix]

I got a little surprise in the mail yesterday from my State Farm agent. They needed to adjust the premium after I added my MKIII to my policy. Well, my premium last year was $480. The price on my renewal for this year went up to $1380! :shock:

So I called the agent this morning, and expressed my shock at the rate increase. The agent called me back 2 hours later after looking into the situation, and found the underwriter at the home office made a mistake. New premium $520. What a relief! :cool:

[mezorn26]

Spoke with state farm today.

For 20k in photo gear coverage and 5k in computer

Loss, theft, damage, anything. NO DEDUCTIBLE

$280 per year.:cool:



I'm a camper now. Much more comfortable bringing my toys out to play

[fortinaa]

Does that price cover you for business/commercial usage or just for personal use?

Spoke with state farm today.

For 20k in photo gear coverage and 5k in computer

Loss, theft, damage, anything. NO DEDUCTIBLE

$280 per year.:cool:



I'm a camper now. Much more comfortable bringing my toys out to play

[felix21685]

definitely an interesting thread. Reminded me to call my insurance person at state farm and ask about a few things. thanks for the reminder!

[webejamn]

if you have any doubt, i am a good example how of well it works, on the 31st i dropped my 5d and my 16-35 in the river while snow shoeing. i talked to my agent on the 2nd, they called me back on the 3rd, and tomarrow the 8th i will have my check for 4312$,
** i didnt recover the camera,** it was too deep and cold, not to mention i was 2 hrs of snowshoeing in the back county. they covered my gear for what i insured it for, not for the replacement value. i have zero deductible, and my rates should not go up, if they do it should only be a few dollars a year.
this policy covers anything you do to your gear, anywhere.
i feel obligated to plug the company who i am insured with because it was so easy, and the people were pleasant to deal with. i have state farm, and like a good neighbor, they were there for me in my time of need.

[fortinaa]

webejamn,

My question still stands... Do they differentiate a standard and commercial policy? I know you said it was hassle free and they covered you, but was it part of the questioning process when you got insured and got a rate, or no?

[webejamn]

no, they didnt ask me much about a buisness, but they told me that when i do get a business up and running, tell them and they will change the coverage, so yes it is diffrent. he did say there isnt much diffrence in price though.

[Furf]

Wow this really opened my eyes. My gf did not want me to invest alot in this since I am a clutz. But i am Calling my agent tomarrow. I go through allstate. We shall see what happenes.

[ers1121]

if you have any doubt, i am a good example how of well it works, on the 31st i dropped my 5d and my 16-35 in the river while snow shoeing. i talked to my agent on the 2nd, they called me back on the 3rd, and tomarrow the 8th i will have my check for 4312$,
** i didnt recover the camera,** it was too deep and cold, not to mention i was 2 hrs of snowshoeing in the back county. they covered my gear for what i insured it for, not for the replacement value. i have zero deductible, and my rates should not go up, if they do it should only be a few dollars a year.
this policy covers anything you do to your gear, anywhere.
i feel obligated to plug the company who i am insured with because it was so easy, and the people were pleasant to deal with. i have state farm, and like a good neighbor, they were there for me in my time of need.

If you don't mind my asking what does a good neighbor like that cost?

[webejamn]

i am not exactly sure what the cost of that policy is,, i know that with auto, this policy and my renters insurance, it is 640 a year i will look into it though. i am guessing it might go up

[PeteJaffa]

I've been thinking about insurance since I've started buying some more gear. Just wondering if anyone has used http://www.eandl.co.uk/camera-insurance/ or am I just as well calling up the home insurance mob?

[silvex]

Well my insurance broker that sold my computer consulting business policy. Is about to write a pro photog policy that covers up to 2M for Gen Lib and $25K of gear I own or rent. It covers theft, accidental damage (like the 600f/4 fall into the alligator river thread :) ). This coverage extends to people I might hire to help move/shoot photos. The cost is $800 for the first year with $300 down. The second year $500...Total :) He is trying to get my deductible to $250 from ($1000/$500).

I couldn't say no...

[blackshadow]

I have recently taken out professional photographer's insurance on my gear approximately $25K of gear covered with a $100 excess, it covers theft, loss and breakage for less than $800/year. Talking Australian dollars here.

[woodenfrog]

My studio is covered,we are in a downtown area.verry visable. The studio is open for the public to walk in so lots of folks see my stuff. Some times i see creeps walkin in back lookin to break into something.

[DwightMcCann]

Well my insurance broker that sold my computer consulting business policy. Is about to write a pro photog policy that covers up to 2M for Gen Lib and $25K of gear I own or rent. It covers theft, accidental damage (like the 600f/4 fall into the alligator river thread :) ). This coverage extends to people I might hire to help move/shoot photos. The cost is $800 for the first year with $300 down. The second year $500...Total :) He is trying to get my deductible to $250 from ($1000/$500).

I couldn't say no...
Who is this magical broker? :-)

[silvex]

Who is this magical broker? :-)

PM me and I will pass his contact info.

[KrautFed]

For you State Farm (US) people... what specifically did you ask for in your coverage package? My agency (although nice) is probably the least knowledable State Farm agency out there. :lol: I was listing her things and she kept thinking I was doing contract work and not work for myself. She's supposed to call me back tomorrow, but I want to know if there's any "key words" that help explain. I initially told her about the business and that I wanted some type of commercial general liability (equipment, general liability, etc).

[mattograph]

If you don't mind my asking what does a good neighbor like that cost?

I just added similar coverage for my equipment -- covers everything but product failure and my temper!

$20 a month with USAA -- $15,000 in coverage.

[silvex]

For you State Farm (US) people... what specifically did you ask for in your coverage package? My agency (although nice) is probably the least knowledable State Farm agency out there. :lol: I was listing her things and she kept thinking I was doing contract work and not work for myself. She's supposed to call me back tomorrow, but I want to know if there's any "key words" that help explain. I initially told her about the business and that I wanted some type of commercial general liability (equipment, general liability, etc).

Some or most state farm (or most insurance brokers) might not do pro insurance such as error and omissions (ENO) or the General Liability (GEN LIB ). Ask the agent for a referral to a broker that does.

[screwuhippie]

I just added similar coverage for my equipment -- covers everything but product failure and my temper!

$20 a month with USAA -- $15,000 in coverage.

My wife is starting up her Photography Business and we elected to go sole proprietorship ... and I was able to get a $2M/$4M policy through USAA for $350 a year ... however the property insurance with them was over $1000/yr for just $15k in coverage. How are you guys getting good property insurance? Can I tie the property to my homeowners and have the liability separate? I'm reading what is being posted and ... your rates are like 1000 times better then what i'm finding.

Thanks

[mattograph]

My wife is starting up her Photography Business and we elected to go sole proprietorship ... and I was able to get a $2M/$4M policy through USAA for $350 a year ... however the property insurance with them was over $1000/yr for just $15k in coverage. How are you guys getting good property insurance? Can I tie the property to my homeowners and have the liability separate? I'm reading what is being posted and ... your rates are like 1000 times better then what i'm finding.

Thanks

Are you talking about commercial property insurance? My gear was insured as personal property, like jewelry. Its called their VPP rider.

[screwuhippie]

Are you talking about commercial property insurance? My gear was insured as personal property, like jewelry. Its called their VPP rider.

Yeah thats my problem ... I have the VPP rider for anything in the home but ... once it becomes business and off location it isn't covered! So ... i'm trying to find the right way to do this.

[mattograph]

Yeah thats my problem ... I have the VPP rider for anything in the home but ... once it becomes business and off location it isn't covered! So ... i'm trying to find the right way to do this.

Interesting. Do you still own the gear personally?

How do they handle your auto insurance? What if you have a wreck driving to a shoot?

[screwuhippie]

Interesting. Do you still own the gear personally?

How do they handle your auto insurance? What if you have a wreck driving to a shoot?

Yeah from what i've been reading ... you can do the personal rider but if they find out it was broken during a wedding shoot etc for which you were being paid in your business they can deny your claim. I'm not sure about auto. Man this is all just way to freaking complicated.

[mattograph]

I know what you mean.

As I got into it a little bit, it was going cost me alot of time and hassle to try to separate the two. I was going to start my side business as a sole proprietor but soon figured out that, based on what I was likely to make part time, it wasn't worth the hassle. Instead, I am going to work for my church, and will trade my services for tithes, which pay for my kids school. In a sense, I am trading photos for schooling, but without so much of the hassle. I did start an Alamy site for my stock. But since I make something stock after the fact, I am never technically "on a shoot."

Good luck!

[screwuhippie]

That sounds like a plan ... I called the local state farm office and they can do a professional equipment separate policy for $2.40 per $100 insured with a $100 deductible! So ... for $10k in equipment thats only $240/year which is perfect.

Thanks for everyone bringing this up. Still have the $350/yr Liability Insurnace on the other side but ... this is much better piece of mind.

[DwightMcCann]

I'm going to get in touch PPA in the next week or so and see what liability and equipment insurance will run ... I expect it will not be cheap, maybe a couple of thousand a year, but I have a lot of stuff.

[KrautFed]

I just got denied by State Farm... not that I'm a risk, but the "exposure" of the covered equipment. She said the underwriters couldn't cover it because of the exposure to the availibility of theft of equipment when I'm not looking a.k.a. shooting photography. "You know some of those things could just grow legs and walk of hahahaha"

:evil: :evil: :evil:

I've been with State Farm for 10 years, and she wouldn't listen to me explaining that I wouldn't have 100% of equipment on a shoot/site.

[airfrogusmc]

What about a business policy?

[mattograph]

I just got denied by State Farm... not that I'm a risk, but the "exposure" of the covered equipment. She said the underwriters couldn't cover it because of the exposure to the availibility of theft of equipment when I'm not looking a.k.a. shooting photography. "You know some of those things could just grow legs and walk of hahahaha"

:evil: :evil: :evil:

I've been with State Farm for 10 years, and she wouldn't listen to me explaining that I wouldn't have 100% of equipment on a shoot/site.

So, if you didnt have so much equipment, they would have insured you?

[crazyskillz07]

I am going away to school next year. I will be dorming at the school. I am considering getting insurance for my gear and liability insurance because I will be covering highschool sports in the local area and selling through my website. Can someone point me in the right direction for starters? If you could PM me I would appreciate it!

[sfaust]

So, if you didnt have so much equipment, they would have insured you?

Probably not. It sounds like they don't want to cover photographic equipment. Otherwise if the risk was higher, they just charge a higher premium to cover the risk.

I would go to an agent that provide business coverage policies and have them quote you a couple policies from various companies.

[mattograph]

I have never looked into it, but I bet the PMA offers something.

[aram535]

Just to follow up, I called my local State Farm gal, and for $6000 worth of equipment its only $98/year to cover it damage and loss.

Not sure why someone else was denied by them. I do have my house and car with them too so its just another line item, maybe they won't do it all by itself.

[scubasushi]

Just to follow up, I called my local State Farm gal, and for $6000 worth of equipment its only $98/year to cover it damage and loss.

Not sure why someone else was denied by them. I do have my house and car with them too so its just another line item, maybe they won't do it all by itself.

I was turned down by State Farm for personal articles insurance - seems they don't want to write any new policies in Florida due to hurricane risk

[silvex]

Just to follow up, I called my local State Farm gal, and for $6000 worth of equipment its only $98/year to cover it damage and loss.

Not sure why someone else was denied by them. I do have my house and car with them too so its just another line item, maybe they won't do it all by itself.

Will "in-transit" gear be covered?

[aram535]

Will "in-transit" gear be covered?

From the 20 min conversation on the phone, yes it would. But I am going to go there on Monday to sign the paperwork so I'll have the full policy to read.

[g-money]

Is this just equipment coverage? Any liability in there?

Reason I ask is I got a quote from Allstate who I have my home with and Hill & Usher. Both came back with $500 a year for $7000 in euqipment and a mil in liability. Lost or stolen on the job I am covered. I was hoping for more like $300/yr

Greg

[aram535]

Equipment lost/theft/damage only.

[silvex]

From the 20 min conversation on the phone, yes it would. But I am going to go there on Monday to sign the paperwork so I'll have the full policy to read.

My nephew works for a media company in NY. They rented a $250,000 video camera that was stolen off the van/truck. When they put a claim against hartford insurance. They came back with "the policy does NOT cover in-transit" gear...claim denied. Sure 'nuff the policy clearly stated that! So read the policy TWICE and ask questions BEFORE sign it off!!!

Accidents DO happen....

[silvex]

Is this just equipment coverage? Any liability in there?

Reason I ask is I got a quote from Allstate who I have my home with and Hill & Usher. Both came back with $500 a year for $7000 in euqipment and a mil in liability. Lost or stolen on the job I am covered. I was hoping for more like $300/yr

Greg

My policy covers all damaged to gear (stolen, damages etc) and harm to others. The coverage is 4M for liability and $25,000 for gear lost/stolen for $500 year w/ $250 deductible. My 1st year was $800 ( $300 broker's fee).

[DwightMcCann]

I just mailed off checks for $44K equipment (only equipment that I usually take with me, not studio strobes or computers ... my business runs from my home which is pretty safe) insurance ($200 deductible) and $2M liability insurance through PPA. $874/year for equipment and $320/year for liability. I am in Buellton, California. If there are better rates, bring 'em on 'cause I can change next year! :-) I likely have $100K equipment that I would like to insure.

[mattograph]

I just mailed off checks for $44K equipment (only equipment that I usually take with me, not studio strobes or computers ... my business runs from my home which is pretty safe) insurance ($200 deductible) and $2M liability insurance through PPA. $874/year for equipment and $320/year for liability. I am in Buellton, California. If there are better rates, bring 'em on 'cause I can change next year! :-) I likely have $100K equipment that I would like to insure.

Without knowing the policy parameters, that sounds like a helluva buy.

Even if its not, being confident that your policy will pay when you need it is of paramount importance.

[shannyD]

i have my things insured by USAA under my renters policy. they charged me an extra two dollars a month for it. i feel special.

[DwightMcCann]

Without knowing the policy parameters, that sounds like a helluva buy.

Even if its not, being confident that your policy will pay when you need it is of paramount importance.

This is through PPA with someone called Marsh I think. I'm really starting to get a little value for my money from PPA with forms, insurance, and some promotions ... and with their indemnity product I can call if I have any issues with anyone about anything photographic including Copyright issues, sigh.

[g-money]

i have my things insured by USAA under my renters policy. they charged me an extra two dollars a month for it. i feel special.

Shannon, I have USAA for my Auto's but haven't checked with them on the photography insurance. WHat all does your policy include? Just theft from your apartment?

Greg

[mattograph]

i have my things insured by USAA under my renters policy. they charged me an extra two dollars a month for it. i feel special.

I have USAA as well, but pay $200 a year ($15,000 in gear). Did you itemize your equipment? Do you have all hazards coverage?

It sounds like I might be overpaying.......

My policy is all hazards, personal use. Drop it in a river, run over it with a car, full replacement coverage.

[Kaya75]

Oooooh Yes!(poor churchhill impression...), i have gear and transit loss and theft from a parked car (but it's got to be stored out of sight i.e. in the boot (trunk) and 5million liability - i had this even before i started out as a semi-pro. liability and loss - it's quite cheap i think it was about £200 to cover all of the above with 5k worth of kit. a couple CF cards for a whole lot of security.

The one that i'd like to know about is Professional liability i.e someone sues you because you messed up the pics - this is written in my contracts to the value of a refund of monies received only has anybody had any experiance of pro liability insurance??

[jhcanon]

Kaya - I understand that as long as you have specific limits of liability listed in your terms and conditions the need for professional indemniity is almost nil.

[Sports_Dude]

FYI...Just talked with State Farm and they charge $1.96 per $100 for equipment coverage. Ex: $15K of equipment will run $294/year. Separate Business in the home policy will run between $300 - $500 depending on coverage and deductible (Comes with $1M liability coverage, camera equipment not included).

[divinemethod]

If anyone in Toronto is looking in to insurance, I have mine with State Farm, and it works out to be $544 a year for loss/theft coverage of $15k and $1M liability.

Question for anyone who had made a successful claim on your insurance: how much did the premiums go up by?

[APG-Angus]

FYI...Just talked with State Farm and they charge $1.96 per $100 for equipment coverage. Ex: $15K of equipment will run $294/year. Separate Business in the home policy will run between $300 - $500 depending on coverage and deductible (Comes with $1M liability coverage, camera equipment not included).

My State Farm guy quoted me $1.20 per $100 as a rider to my homeowner insurance and this is not limited to photo gear so I'll have my wife's diamond on it as well. This is without any deductible and covers theft, loss, damage, even "mysterious disappearance". You know when you're sitting in an open air cafe and you place that lens you just swapped out down on the table, turn and take that shot accross the mall, turn back and your 24-70L is gone!

Being an amateur, liability is covered under my homeowner's, covers some stupidity with or without a camera in hand, and my gear is covered for under $100 an year. Getting the diamond appraised this week.

[southbayphotog]

Does anyone have actual experience making a claim on their camera gear policy that was written as a rider on their homeowner's insurance? I would fear that most insurance companies would be quick to cancel your entire homeowners insurance after paying the claim. And once you're blackballed it might be difficult to get another homeowner's policy.

[PixelChick78]

Do you know if State farm covers professional liability as well as personal liability? I have insurance now for my gear thru my home ins and it is only covered for gear at $5,000 off premises (not enough) and $10,000 at home . It has just personal liability at $1mil (but no professional liability-if they sure me becuse i botched up their wedding photos) it's cheap! $200/yr. (Aviva -Traders General Insurance co) I was quoted $1200 to convert to a commercial policy with more cvg and to include more $ off premises and the professional liability too at $1mil but that seems expensive since I only do this on the side right now! I might give SF a call.

If anyone in Toronto is looking in to insurance, I have mine with State Farm, and it works out to be $544 a year for loss/theft coverage of $15k and $1M liability.

Question for anyone who had made a successful claim on your insurance: how much did the premiums go up by?

[aram535]

Does anyone have actual experience making a claim on their camera gear policy that was written as a rider on their homeowner's insurance? I would fear that most insurance companies would be quick to cancel your entire homeowners insurance after paying the claim. And once you're blackballed it might be difficult to get another homeowner's policy.

You really can't use your home insurance for your camera equipment. Most homes that cost more than $100k have at least a $1000 - $2000 deductible. Unless you lost your entire bag at once that's going to be most of the cost the unit.

You're better off just starting a second policy which state farm does. It is still attached (so you get a discount) if your home is also insured there, but if one is canceled/increased the other is not.

[aram535]

Do you know if State farm covers professional liability as well as personal liability? I have insurance now for my gear thru my home ins and it is only covered for gear at $5,000 off premises (not enough) and $10,000 at home . It has just personal liability at $1mil (but no professional liability-if they sure me becuse i botched up their wedding photos) it's cheap! $200/yr. (Aviva -Traders General Insurance co) I was quoted $1200 to convert to a commercial policy with more cvg and to include more $ off premises and the professional liability too at $1mil but that seems expensive since I only do this on the side right now! I might give SF a call.

They do. I believe your personal liability is on your home insurance, the professional one you can attach to your equipment on a seperate policy.

It was one of the questions they asked me when they were filling in the paperwork, no idea on cost though.

[aram535]

I just called my local State Farm insurance office which insures my home and my car. I ask them for a "new" policy just for my equipment, 0 business liability, 0 deductible.

The only strange question they asked me is if I wanted to increase my converage year-to-year, which I said no to, I think that's for jewelry or art that appreciates over time, rather than depreciate like photographic equipment.

[Scott McLoud]

I have both equipment insurance (covered by my studio) and liability insurance

[reelly1]

You can list your gear through homeowners just like jewelry. It cost me about $2 per hundred.

[Sports_Dude]

You can list your gear through homeowners just like jewelry. It cost me about $2 per hundred.

Per my insurance agent, that works as long as you don't sell pictures.

[bohdank]

I haven't insured anything that I can replace, easily, in 35 years. Never lost anything or have had anything of value stolen, nor have I ever broken any camera equipment. Been in all kinds of shady places all over the world. I must have saved well over $10k in insurance premiums. I also don't buy extended warranties.

I don't bet, against myself.

Your mileage will vary.

[aram535]

Its insurance.... that's the point. 1 of 100 people need it, but than you better hope you're not that 1 person.

[PixelChick78]

I haven't insured anything that I can replace, easily, in 35 years. Never lost anything or have had anything of value stolen, nor have I ever broken any camera equipment. Been in all kinds of shady places all over the world. I must have saved well over $10k in insurance premiums. I also don't buy extended warranties.

I don't bet, against myself.

Your mileage will vary.

I can afford to replace my grear, what I can't afford is the lawyer's bill and the lawsuit when a Bridezilla sues me! lol

Got a quote from State farm for about $400 (includes professional liability) I think I am going to take it!

[HirePhotographer]

Equipment insured along with a buisness liability policy. Cant afford not to at aprox. $200.00 a year.



I totally agree . . . if not for you own equipt, just consider the head-aches if something actually did happen . . . its almost funny that a $6K setup actually cost so little to insure when you think about it . . . we were at a wedding (guests) and the photog fell into a small backyard pond . . . luckily she had the wherewithall to hold the camera very high . . .


on another occasion we were hurrying inside from the rain . . . set the equipt down in the garage (well, actually the argument ensued as to whether my wife did or I did, haha) needlesstosay, the durability of two lenses in their case could not withstand GMC Yukon tire pressure . . . at least I wasn't driving, and it was after we had just insured the biz equipment.

[sfaust]

Liability insurance is a must, equipment insurance is a luxury. If you don't own that much, its easier to not insure and replace as needed. If you own a lot, it can be huge hit on the pocket book should something happen, and best to pay the small yearly premium.

I've got the 'mainstay' equipment insured since the hit to my pocketbook would be about $35K. But the rest is not insured as I could live without it for a while as I build it back up. Liability wise, I've got 2M in coverage, and won't work without that. Too many things can happen, and even 2M is barely reasonable these days.

My house got broken into last week, and they made off with some of my equipment. Wouldn't you know it, they stuff they took was the secondary equipment that wasn't insured! My primary equipment was safe and secured off site. My homeowners will cover my personal stuff, but not the business equipment. Luckily, it was only $2-3K worth, and stuff I can actually live without. The only piece that hurt was a $1,000 lens that I had sold on ebay and was waiting to ship. I had to refund the money, so it was a direct hit to the wallet :(

New security measures are now in place :)

[silverhalide]

Per my insurance agent, that works as long as you don't sell pictures.

Does anyone have a feeling (or better yet, actual information ;)) on where the tipping point is for insurance as a rider to your home coverage vs. getting actual business coverage?

I've been selling some photos of a dog show I went to and made a couple hundred dollars off of it, and have now been contacted by a dog trainer to take some more shots for her. If I decide to pursue other opportunities, I can see this continuing on in a semi-continuous, but low-level (~$1K/year) activity.

I don't want to spend more on insurance than I need to, and am thus reluctant to switch to business coverage, but I also understand that my home insurance will only cover my camera "as long as you don't sell pictures." At what point does a hobby bringing in a few dollars invalidate my insurance?

Should I be worried about discussing this with an insurance agent (would simply talking to them put me in a position where I need to switch)?

Thanks.

[PixelChick78]

Does anyone have a feeling (or better yet, actual information ;)) on where the tipping point is for insurance as a rider to your home coverage vs. getting actual business coverage?

I've been selling some photos of a dog show I went to and made a couple hundred dollars off of it, and have now been contacted by a dog trainer to take some more shots for her. If I decide to pursue other opportunities, I can see this continuing on in a semi-continuous, but low-level (~$1K/year) activity.

I don't want to spend more on insurance than I need to, and am thus reluctant to switch to business coverage, but I also understand that my home insurance will only cover my camera "as long as you don't sell pictures." At what point does a hobby bringing in a few dollars invalidate my insurance?

Should I be worried about discussing this with an insurance agent (would simply talking to them put me in a position where I need to switch)?

Thanks.

If you discuss it with your agent and they decide it's a business, the ins co could and will probably force you to have the proper coverage and likely not let you decide. Likely any 'income' however small constitutes business use of your home and equipment and if you read the fine print your contract is likely to state that any part of your home and contents used in whole are part for business is excluded. They could actually deny a claim even if the claim is unrelated to the business. Usually the courts would side with you if the coffee maker caught fire and had had nothing to do with the few dog photos you took last week but don't find out the hard way when your claim is being denied. It is better to pay a bit more per month and be properly covered than to fight about it in court later.

I actually am and insurance broker FT in Ontario Canada so I have quite a bit of experience with this kind of stuff if anyone has more questions. I am sure there are lots of differences between policies and other countries/provinces tho.

I always find these threads interesting;)

Many companies can sell you a small rider to the policy for small home based businesses (which I had) and they can be pretty cheap for the piece of mind. Just clarify with your agent/broker if professional liability is included. Many do not and require a Commercial General Liability policy instead(which I have now).

Denise

[silverhalide]

PixelChick,

Thanks for the clarification. I'll look into it.