Micro 4/3s Format by Olympus

[cklc]

Is anyone else as excited about this news as I am?

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0808/08080501microfourthirds.asp

Go Olympus!

[sando]

I was quite excited and disheartened at the same time. It's another nail in the coffin for SLR's as we know it.

[DStanic]

I've been wondering why they haven't come up with something like this sooner. Not that I want one, but there needs to be a better option than the S5 IS type of cameras as a smaller option to SLR. Now real lenses, real sensor.

[PacAce]

Having used cameras with electronic viewfinders, I, for one, am not going to give up the DSLR for a camera like those based on the Micro 4/3 format with an EVF. :|

[Wilt]

Olympus is the company that came out with half-frame 35mm SLRs, and the wonderful OM system with its small, light bodies and lenses. Unfortunately they went the point and shoot route about 20 years ago, abandoning the OM system, and only re-emerged with the diminuitive dSLR on the 4/3 system. So it is no wonder that they lean back to the direction of the digital point-and-shoot orientation with the Micro 4/3. Like Leo, I am yawning at the prospect of relying upon an electronic sensor to focus and frame...I could do that with my Canon G2! The only difference is the Olympus has interchangeable lenses.

[adam8080]

I wish Canon would incorporate the same idea into a digital rangefinder.

[FlyingPhotog]

They're way late to the party for "small SLR" format:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minolta_110_Zoom_SLR

[sadatk]

This isn't an SLR. It looks like what the Sigma DP1 should have been. Small and compact, but able to change lenses.

Cons of course are that there's no optical viewfinder and mirror box--thus you have to focus with contrast detect AF through live view or an evf.

[20droger]

Interchangeable lenses does not a DSLR make. There are many other factors to consider. Not the least of which is a TTL optical viewfinder.

[CoolToolGuy]

(Some of) The Bad News:

If this catches on, it could affect everybody else's market share in favor of Olympus/Panasonic.
While 4/3 lenses will work on the Micro 4/3 cameras with an adapter, it is not likely that the Micro 4/3 lenses will fit on the 4/3 bodies - Similar to the EF/EF-S issue. Folks wanting to move up from Micro 4/3 will be just as likely to go Canon as stay with Oly/Pana.
Unless other lens manufacturers buy into it fully, the best you will find outside of Oly/Pana are normal-size lenses with the itty-bitty mount - sort of defeats the purpose.(Some of) The Good News:

A new, lightweight format with interchangeable lenses could be good.
I don't think this will seriously impact the pro/prosumer market - it is mostly for the consumer market.Take a look at other similar attempts in the past - 110 film SLRs, APS - I have my doubts that it will go too far.

Have Fun,

[ICBuyer]

I just bought a 40D and this news comes online. But I guess the traditional format will hang around much longer than my 40D.

Excerpt from DPreview.com




Olympus and Panasonic have announced a new, mirrorless format / lens mount based on (and compatible with) Four Thirds. The Micro Four Thirds system uses the same sensor size (18 x 13.5 mm) but allows slimmer cameras by removing the mirror box and optical viewfinder. The new format has three key technical differences: (1) roughly half the flange back distance (distance from mount to the sensor), (2) a smaller diameter lens mount (6 mm smaller) and (3) two additional contact points for lens-to-body communication (now 11 points). Removing the mirror mechanism allows this shorter flange back distance, meaning lenses for the new mount can be considerably smaller than current Four Thirds designs. The format will require framing to be carried out using Live View on either the LCD monitor or an EVF. Existing Four Thirds lenses can be used on Micro Four Thirds cameras using an adapter. Neither company is as yet making product announcements (we expect some more news in this respect closer to Photokina).

http://a.img-dpreview.com/news/0808/MicroFourThirdsDiag-001.jpg (http://a.img-dpreview.com/news/0808/MicroFourThirdsDiag.jpg)

[SolidxSnake]

Going to have a great AF system :)

This isn't technically an SLR camera, it doesn't have a TTL optical viewfinder.

[Zilly]

So its a point and shoot with interchangeable lenses then ?

[Permagrin]

I would hate not having an optical viewfinder.

[DDCSD]

Hmmmm... I'd rather personally have a traditional viewfinder than camcorder style LCD screen as the viewfinder.

And I already have a mirror-less camera.
http://derekcecil.smugmug.com/photos/345785857_BMYCQ-L.jpg

[m3rdpwr]

Basically it will have the sensor from the 4/3's and the interchangable lenes, both old and new.
(Edit: using some type of adapter.)

They removed all those mechanical parts.

Should be the same quality image with less parts to break I guess...

-Mario

[DDCSD]

I would think that it would make it completely useless for sports or anything that moves. Take a 40D, XSi, MkIII or any P&S on live view and move the camera around. There would have to be one heck of a refresh rate to get an image that isn't terribly blurry. I would also think that this would put a delay in the time the button is pressed to actual picture taken.

[SolidxSnake]

Not to mention, it won't have a good AF system. It'll require a contrast-detect AF.

[John_T]

Other than no interchangeable lens, wonder how the Pro1 fits in the category...

[ben_r_]

OT, but man I wish I would have bought a Pro 1 back in the day and kept it! Best point shoot EVER and the only one I know of to have an L lens!

[m3rdpwr]

OT, but man I wish I would have bought a Pro 1 back in the day and kept it! Best point shoot EVER and the only one I know of to have an L lens!

My old boss has one and he can't get himself to get rid of it.

He likes it too much with that red "L" ring around the lens... :)

-Mario

[Lowner]

With Live View becoming so popular, it's no surprise that manufacturers would test the market with a camera without all those complicated (read: Expensive to fit) mirrors/pentaprisms/viewfinders and try to persuade us it's an advance.

It will be a sad day when I loose the through the lens optical viewfinder, but I can easily forsee it happening. I remember the good old days of manual focus, when focus screens had split prism focusing aids. Why have they gone? It's cheaper and most users did not want them.

[JeffreyG]

I would characterize this new camera as essentially a new P&S with a larger sensor than all the rest. This would be a welcome development indeed.

I don't see this camera as an alternative to most dSLR work, though it does look like something that many dSLR owners would want in addition for casual snapshots or travel when lighter and smaller is desired.

I think there are many dSLR owners that would love to also own a high quality pocket camera, but who do not accept the output of 1/1.8" and smaller sensors.

Personally I'd rather this thing was a simple rangefinder over a LCD focussed system.

[gooble]

I doubt DSLRs will ever go away. I don't care how good an EVF/live view will get it'll never compare to TTL.

It's like the people saying the mouse will be dead in five years. Yeah right.

[In2Photos]

So with no mirror box or shutter does that mean I can have a sync speed greater than 1/250? that could be cool. No need to use HSS so flash distance is much greater.

[40Dude6aedyk]

The older Sony F828 and F717 cameras just had a viewfinder with a small LCD in it which showed the live view (in addition to the LCD on the camera back). So this has all been done before. There really is no need to have mirror and SLR to get great pictures. It's about the CCD sensor and the lens.

[CoolToolGuy]

Technically, if it doesn't have a mirror that flips out of the way of the sensor it cannot be an SLR. The "R" stands for Reflex, which refers to a construction with a mirror for viewing. The old Mamiya and Rolleiflex cameras were "Twin Lens Reflex" cameras where a second lens was used exclusively for viewing. With a Single Lens Reflex there is only one lens, so the mirror must move out of the way for the exposure to happen.

So Oly/Pana might actually have to come up with a new name for their design, which might hurt their sales since the vast majority of current-day camera users have no idea what "SLR" actually means and they might shy away from it. . .

Oh, well, it won't be the first time - many videotape players were incorrectly sold as VCRs when they were actually VCPs :rolleyes:

Have Fun,

[gooble]

The older Sony F828 and F717 cameras just had a viewfinder with a small LCD in it which showed the live view (in addition to the LCD on the camera back). So this has all been done before. There really is no need to have mirror and SLR to get great pictures. It's about the CCD sensor and the lens.

The SLR part is not necessary to get great pictures but there is a connection to the subject that you get by looking through a lens that you don't get any other way. Anyway, the technology of EVF and live view is is vastly inferior to a through-the-lens view.

[SolidxSnake]

The older Sony F828 and F717 cameras just had a viewfinder with a small LCD in it which showed the live view (in addition to the LCD on the camera back). So this has all been done before. There really is no need to have mirror and SLR to get great pictures. It's about the CCD sensor and the lens.


Try shooting sports with a non SLR. The shutter lag is much MUCH more apparent, and the LCDs also have quite a bit of lag because they don't refresh as quick as the speed of light (unlike an optical viewfinder).

[bieber]

I love it. Full frame sensors are starting to work their way towards affordability, and Olympus is focusing on making a tiny sensor work with even tinier lenses and cameras, and trying to make a cheap DSLR/P&S Hybrid. Someone wake me up when I can buy a full-frame digital rangefinder...

[Wilt]

Try shooting sports with a non SLR. The shutter lag is much MUCH more apparent, and the LCDs also have quite a bit of lag because they don't refresh as quick as the speed of light (unlike an optical viewfinder).

You are describing the cheap point and shoots. Rangefinder film cameras have always had LESS lag than the film SLRs, only until automagic (autofocus, autoexposure) became dominant!

[Rehan]

It is exciting news indeed.

The aim here off course is to provide DSLR level image quality in a compact form factor. Something which Sigma DP1 tries to do in a not-so-successful way, but this micro 4/3 system has a potential to go much farther than Sigma DP1 type solutions.

Top of the line compact cameras like Canon G9 cost over $450 which is just about equal to an Olympus E420 with a 14-42 lens. Now E 420 has a much larger sensor than G9 and really the image quality and high ISO performance are in a different league.

So it is clear that your $450 should be able to buy you a much better compact than the tiny-sensor cameras and the micro 4/3 could provide just that.

Honestly speaking there are lots of users who move from P&S to digital SLRs for improved image quality but find the bulk of digital SLRs to be cumbersom for family vacations or outdoor trips etc. Even some professionals confess choosing a "G9" over their SLRs for such occasions. It was only about time for someone to bridge the gap and provide something closer to the DLSR's in IQ but at the same time retain the convenient form factor of smaller cameras

Autofocus speed would off course be my biggest concern and lets see how olympus/panasonic do on that front

[Riff Raff]

So its a point and shoot with interchangeable lenses then ?

Bingo. So I can't say the "news" affects me in any way.

[Rehan]

The SLR part is not necessary to get great pictures but there is a connection to the subject that you get by looking through a lens that you don't get any other way. Anyway, the technology of EVF and live view is is vastly inferior to a through-the-lens view.

This is all really true and I love my SLR as well. And those who work with medium format viewfinders would probably also tell you that the viewfinders on the crop (or even full frame) SLRs are nothing compared to what they have.

But the point is that an SLR simply cannot achieve a compact enough form factor due to the mirror assembly. If you want to make a compact camera with high image quality then you have no option but to get rid of the mirror assembly. This is a compromise which you have to make because there is no other option.

[gooble]

This is all really true and I love my SLR as well. And those who work with medium format viewfinders would probably also tell you that the viewfinders on the crop (or even full frame) SLRs are nothing compared to what they have.

But the point is that an SLR simply cannot achieve a compact enough form factor due to the mirror assembly. If you want to make a compact camera with high image quality then you have no option but to get rid of the mirror assembly. This is a compromise which you have to make because there is no other option.

I'm not saying that these types of cameras won't become a significant segment of the camera market, I'm disputing someone's comment here that they can see the day when DSLR cameras will simply go away do to this new type of camera.

When 35mm cameras were coming into existence medium format people probably bemoaned the demise of their system yet nearly 100 years later medium format and large format are still around.

[Rehan]

I'm not saying that these types of cameras won't become a significant segment of the camera market, I'm disputing someone's comment here that they can see the day when DSLR cameras will simply go away do to this new type of camera.

When 35mm cameras were coming into existence medium format people probably bemoaned the demise of their system yet nearly 100 years later medium format and large format are still around.

Sure totally agreed. This is not going to replace SLRs. Many will want to just use these in addition to SLRs for situations where they dont want to carry their SLR systems with them. Also out of those people who migrate up from P&S's, many don't really need the full capabilities of an SLR system and this could provide them a great middle point.

[FatCat]

Now, I just can't undestand marketing at all...

Many users here are also owners of a Gx and were active in the discussion about the wish list for the upcoming G10 (or G11) specs.

Now Olympus and Panasonic come up with the total fulfillment of those wishes (mainly a bigger sensor and a wider lens... and incterchangeable glasses to boot!).

It certainly sounds like the Holy Grail of the advanced compact cameras!

But instead of a Super Compact (I hate the P&S moniker) they market it as a crippled SLR!

No wonder most of the opinions in a SLR forum are negative ^_^

[DDCSD]

Half of the posts you are reading here were made in the EOS gear section in response to post #11 (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showpost.php?p=6050942&postcount=11), which referenced this system in comparison to a newly purchased 40D. It seems as if 2 or more threads were merged.

This camera system is not comparable to a true DSLR system. When compared to the P&S options, it indeed looks very promising. Little big for a P&S though. I'd rather carry a compact and a real DSLR.

[cklc]

digital rangefinder.

Bingo! :D

I guess we'll have to wait and see!

[CoolToolGuy]

How about McLAG - Mirrorless camera Leading to an Addiction to Glass. . .

:lol::lol::lol:

Have Fun,