Flash Diffusers - Which do you use?

[SoccerRef]

Which one do you use, and why?

I shot my first wedding as a second shooter recently and learned that I NEED a diffuser. I had such harsh shadows, I won't use half my shots. Thank goodness I was just there to learn from my mistakes, because I made plenty of them.

However I learned, and THAT is the important thing!

My need... I need a diffuser for fill flash...

[krb]

Which one do you use, and why?

I shot my first wedding as a second shooter recently and learned that I NEED a diffuser. I had such harsh shadows, I won't use half my shots. Thank goodness I was just there to learn from my mistakes, because I made plenty of them.

However I learned, and THAT is the important thing!

My need... I need a diffuser for fill flash...
Were you using direct flash? Did you try bounce or did the location prevent that?

[pellepiano]

I use a shoot thru umbrella.

Example ...
http://www.pellepiano.com/studiobild/images/imageh23.jpg

[D_CeLiRaToR]

i use the stofen omni-bounce for indoor shots and direct flash for outside fill. if the shadows are that bad outdoors you need to position your subjects differently.

[Wilt]

Flash bracket to keep flash directly over the axis of the lens, so that shadows mostly fall behind the subject, out of view of the lens.

Small softbox (e.g Wescott Micro Apollo -- which is what I use -- or, Photoflex or Lumiqust mini softbox which is about the same size as my Wescott) to soften shadow edges for unavoidable shadows not hidden by the subject's body (such as an arm held across the body)

Above solution works equally in all situations, even when there is no ceiling (outdoors) or high ceiling or colored ceiling (unlike the tupperware 'modifiers' that rely upon ceilings and walls to work at all)

[SoccerRef]

Were you using direct flash? Did you try bounce or did the location prevent that?

Direct. Bouncing was not possible. 60 foot ceiling in the sanctuary and clouds at about 14,000 feet outside!

Mind you, my subjects were well lit, a little overexposed, but that is due to my metering method... another lesson I learned. The shadows on walls behind and arm shadows had very sharp clean lines that were ugly as all get out. I have since looked at a ton of with/without diffuser shots and can see a huge difference, thus my desire to get one.

But when there are so many to choose from, I thought I'd get a little help here first. I believe that I will go with one of the on camera "light boxes" as they seem to blur the direct flash the best. I'll use a card and bounce when it is possible, as I have done that in the past with acceptable results, unless I really like the light box, maybe I'll just use it all the time.

[SoccerRef]

Flash bracket to keep flash directly over the axis of the lens, so that shadows mostly fall behind the subject, out of view of the lens.

Small softbox (e.g Wescott Micro Apollo -- which is what I use -- or, Photoflex or Lumiqust mini softbox which is about the same size as my Wescott) to soften shadow edges for unavoidable shadows not hidden by the subject's body (such as an arm held across the body)

Above solution works equally in all situations, even when there is no ceiling (outdoors) or high ceiling or colored ceiling (unlike the tupperware 'modifiers' that rely upon ceilings and walls to work at all)

Thanks Wilt... I just bought a Flash Bracket that will allow me to change the orientation of my camera and keep the flash over the lens. (That was another lesson learned, DO NOT take photos in portrait mode with the flash mounted on the camera or you will ALWAYS get ugly shadows if there is a wall or anything else within 8-10 feet of the subject!)

I am probably going to go with one of the on flash box type diffusers. Thanks for the info.

[lefturn99]

I'm no expert but I've read all the experts. They say that the diffusers spread the light out but don't change the origin point the light comes from. That can only be done by bouncing light (with a diffuser or aiming a bare flash at a reflective surface) or a softbox or umbrella.

If you are going to be a wedding photog, image is everything. Go for the Gary Fong thing 'cause it looks impressive.

[Zansho]

If you are going to be a wedding photog, image is everything. Go for the Gary Fong thing 'cause it looks impressive.

... I hope this was said in jest. The Gary Fong "thing" is useful in a only handful of situations, and personally, I wouldn't use one as they're huge power wasters. Looking impressive as a photographer shouldn't be a primary concern - lighting the image correctly and getting it in focus and composition should be.

[lefturn99]

Yes, it was said in jest. Should have used a ;););););)

[Wilt]

I'm no expert but I've read all the experts. They say that the diffusers spread the light out but don't change the origin point the light comes from. That can only be done by bouncing light (with a diffuser or aiming a bare flash at a reflective surface) or a softbox or umbrella.

If you are going to be a wedding photog, image is everything. Go for the Gary Fong thing 'cause it looks impressive.


Yes, it is very impressive to the guests (and quite hilarious) when the Fong falls off the flash and rolls around the floor and the photographer goes scampering after it with an embarrassed expression on his/her face! :p We hear about that not infrequently on POTN!

[tim]

I'm no expert but I've read all the experts. They say that the diffusers spread the light out but don't change the origin point the light comes from. That can only be done by bouncing light (with a diffuser or aiming a bare flash at a reflective surface) or a softbox or umbrella.

If you are going to be a wedding photog, image is everything. Go for the Gary Fong thing 'cause it looks impressive.

I think you're correct, but you don't put things across very well. Diffusers for on-camera flash are mostly useless unless they help you bounce the light off a larger surface. Fong Things look silly and waste flash power but they're good for novices.

Something i've noticed is the old school photographers use a flash bracket as they often use on-camera flash as the main light. Photographers who started with digital tend to shoot high ISO more and so don't use the flash as the main light often, so rarely use a flash bracket. Also newer photographers tend to use off camera more, which negates the need for a flash bracket. I haven't used my bracket at a wedding in 2 years as I just don't need it.

[Wilt]

I think you're correct, but you don't put things across very well. Diffusers for on-camera flash are mostly useless unless they help you bounce the light off a larger surface. Fong Things look silly and waste flash power but they're good for novices.

Something i've noticed is the old school photographers use a flash bracket as they often use on-camera flash as the main light. Photographers who started with digital tend to shoot high ISO more and so don't use the flash as the main light often, so rarely use a flash bracket. Also newer photographers tend to use off camera more, which negates the need for a flash bracket. I haven't used my bracket at a wedding in 2 years as I just don't need it.

I guess you should call me 'old school'. But I'd like to comment that even with ISO 1600 or ISO 3200, many churches simply are too dark, or the dance floor is kept so dark as to prevent any available light photos, so then you really do need a flash. I double light (one key light off camera, one fill light on camera) so the on-camera does need a bracket! The moody single off-camera light when the dance floor is dark is too shadow ridden! Softboxes on both lights, for me.

[JDubya]

On camera: A Better Bounce Card Feather-Light
....why: cheap and nice diffused light--soft shadows
Off camera: shoot-through umbrellas and/or a soft box

[tim]

I guess you should call me 'old school'. But I'd like to comment that even with ISO 1600 or ISO 3200, many churches simply are too dark, or the dance floor is kept so dark as to prevent any available light photos, so then you really do need a flash. I double light (one key light off camera, one fill light on camera) so the on-camera does need a bracket! The moody single off-camera light when the dance floor is dark is too shadow ridden! Softboxes on both lights, for me.

Yeah good points, things are different in different countries too. I can shoot ambient in any church, save for the darkest churches in the middle of winter, but I have few weddings then. And I don't usually use a single off camera light for reception, usually I have on-camera fill but I shoot landscape so I don't get side shadow.

[gore]

After reading and reading, trying and trying - yesterday I bought Lumiquest Promax System. Many good reviews and my tests were the trigger for buying Promax. Here (http://kacnje.blogspot.com) you can look at short test with examples.

[Golf Nut]

Which one do you use, and why?

I shot my first wedding as a second shooter recently and learned that I NEED a diffuser. I had such harsh shadows, I won't use half my shots. Thank goodness I was just there to learn from my mistakes, because I made plenty of them.

However I learned, and THAT is the important thing!

My need... I need a diffuser for fill flash...

Any chance of seeing some examples of the kind of shots you're not pleased with?

I made my own diffusers for my two 580EX flashes, all for a total of about $5. They increase the apparent size of the light source by quite a bit. I can choose to throw all the light forward, or I can bounce and throw forward at the same time.

They're similar to this:

http://super.nova.org/DPR/DIY01/

Regards.

[airfrogusmc]

Heres what I use.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/airfrogusmc/IMG_5090.jpg

notice the tungten gel for rooms with tungsten light
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/airfrogusmc/IMG_5091.jpg

Home made
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/airfrogusmc/Cameras/IMG_3620.jpg

Results:
this is not a very good photo but it give you the idea. I usually go with the flash up one stop from the ambient and expose for the flash. So the ambient is a stop down as not to over power and the gel is color balanced for the ambient. I will use a fluorescent gel in that situation and I frequently shoot a ISO 1600.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/airfrogusmc/IMG_70672.jpg

[SoccerRef]

Any chance of seeing some examples of the kind of shots you're not pleased with?

I made my own diffusers for my two 580EX flashes, all for a total of about $5. They increase the apparent size of the light source by quite a bit. I can choose to throw all the light forward, or I can bounce and throw forward at the same time.

They're similar to this:

http://super.nova.org/DPR/DIY01/

Regards.

Unfortunately, I don't have permission to show any of the photos yet. (I was second shooter and we are still very close to the wedding date.)

But, I might be able to recreate the situation and get a few examples. I am facing a very busy weekend, but maybe I can squeeze out some time to try. I like your solution though, I might give it try. I love DIY stuff. In fact, I just completed an external battery pack for my flash! And, I love it.

[SoccerRef]

...
Results:
this is not a very good photo but it give you the idea. I usually go with the flash up one stop from the ambient and expose for the flash. So the ambient is a stop down as not to over power and the gel is color balanced for the ambient. I will use a fluorescent gel in that situation and I frequently shoot a ISO 1600.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/airfrogusmc/IMG_70672.jpg

Looks good, and indoors with a nice white ceiling that is fairly close, I agree 100%, a bounced flash and card works great. But I was indoors with a 60-80 foot tan ceiling, or outdoors with nothing but blue sky and white clouds. Bouncing wasn't possible.

The harshness of the flash turned straight on is what I am trying to fix. I have used your method many times and will again... I do like your "paddle", I may try that as it looks like it will bounce a lot more light forward than a card the width of the flash. But when bouncing isn't possible and I have to go straight on with the flash, a card just doesn't cut it.

[fjgindy]

Check out this link..very helpful:

http://planetneil.com/tangents/2007/12/13/my-choice-of-flash-modifiers/

[dtufino]

I'm using the LumiQuest bounce Kit (just picked it up yesterday and i tottally see the difference in my photos already:


http://tufinophotos.smugmug.com/photos/347258535_s89gf-O.jpg


http://tufinophotos.smugmug.com/photos/347258767_PKEdB-O.jpg

http://tufinophotos.smugmug.com/photos/347258666_ftWmX-O.jpg

[airfrogusmc]

Looks good, and indoors with a nice white ceiling that is fairly close, I agree 100%, a bounced flash and card works great. But I was indoors with a 60-80 foot tan ceiling, or outdoors with nothing but blue sky and white clouds. Bouncing wasn't possible.

The harshness of the flash turned straight on is what I am trying to fix. I have used your method many times and will again... I do like your "paddle", I may try that as it looks like it will bounce a lot more light forward than a card the width of the flash. But when bouncing isn't possible and I have to go straight on with the flash, a card just doesn't cut it.

I even use the card in those situations because the light is still softer than direct flash, and the ceilings in here were 20+ ft high. But the important thing are the gels to get the color temp close to the ambient. Also wanted to say it cost what $4.00 for an entire sheet of white art board and couple bucks for the velcro and does just as good or maybe a better job than the far more expensive modifiers and when it gets beat up ya just make a new one.

[SoccerRef]

Check out this link..very helpful:

http://planetneil.com/tangents/2007/12/13/my-choice-of-flash-modifiers/


I even use the card in those situations because the light is still softer than direct flash, and the ceilings in here were 20+ ft high. But the important thing are the gels to get the color temp close to the ambient. Also wanted to say it cost what $4.00 for an entire sheet of white art board and couple bucks for the velcro and does just as good or maybe a better job than the far more expensive modifiers and when it gets beat up ya just make a new one.

AHA!! It finally clicked! Thanks fjgindy and airfrog! I just realized what I am battling... I will double check when I get home, and I think I am going to blind my son this weekend with test shots, but Between these two posts and the article from Neil... I see that my issue is I believe, two fold. One, I was turning the flash 90 degrees straight onto my subject. (I mistakenly was thinking, well there's no way I can bounce my light, so I must shoot it straight.) While I might not be able to bounce light behind the subject, I can still shoot less light at them by using a card, or other method.

The "bigger" issue (I am speaking from memory here, I don't have the photos in front of me...) but I believe the larger issue is that the shadows are exagerated by the white light coming out of my flash. I.E. my subject is "lit up" by the white light, which makes the shadows look that much darker. That affect may be reduced significantly by just the simple addition of the filter!

I coincidently just got a set of Rosco gels last week for another project I am going to play with... Finding the right one to use to warm up the light out of the flash for portraits should be fairly easy.

[Titus213]

I don't think the white light is causing your shadows. The gels are used to bring the white light down to the ambient light in the room, generally tungsten. That exposed the whole image with the same color light allowing the background and foreground to come to the same true 'white'.

In airfrogs's example, if he had not used the gel, the subjects would have been properly exposed and the right color but the background lights would have a yellow cast to them.

Harsh shadows are caused by direct light, un-diffused.

[krb]

Harsh shadows are caused by direct light, un-diffused.
True, but having shadows that are a different color can make them more noticable regardless of how soft or harsh they may be.

[airfrogusmc]

Thats why ya not only soften the light you balance it color wise also.

[hibiscusroto]

FONG!

Gary Fong Lightsphere II Cloud.

[Golf Nut]

Looks good, and indoors with a nice white ceiling that is fairly close, I agree 100%, a bounced flash and card works great. But I was indoors with a 60-80 foot tan ceiling, or outdoors with nothing but blue sky and white clouds. Bouncing wasn't possible.

The harshness of the flash turned straight on is what I am trying to fix. I have used your method many times and will again... I do like your "paddle", I may try that as it looks like it will bounce a lot more light forward than a card the width of the flash. But when bouncing isn't possible and I have to go straight on with the flash, a card just doesn't cut it.

Here are some random shots I took at a friend's wedding last year. All of these were using the DIY-type of diffuser I linked to above, with the diffuser shaped to throw all the light forward. Flash is a 580EX on an RRS B85-B bracket on my 30D.

http://golfnut.smugmug.com/photos/223765469_EcKws-XL.jpg

http://golfnut.smugmug.com/photos/223766861_gspAY-XL.jpg

http://golfnut.smugmug.com/photos/223766635_fhbQA-XL.jpg

http://golfnut.smugmug.com/photos/223783899_RZfR4-L.jpg

http://golfnut.smugmug.com/photos/223784278_rZFu3-L.jpg

And here are a couple using a pair of 580EX flashes - one on a light stand high by where the DJ was set up, and the other on my camera. Flashes were in ETTL-II mode, with the ratio set so the light on the stand was the main and the light on my camera for fill. This was an outdoor evening reception at a covered pavilion with pretty high A-frame rafters. I like how the pictures turned out, but my only gripe is that the shots don't show much of the dim ambient light. Not sure how I would have done that without slowing the shutter too much and getting subject blur. Oh well, I wasn't getting paid.

http://golfnut.smugmug.com/photos/223789999_NRBwi-L.jpg

http://golfnut.smugmug.com/photos/223791593_wjBnb-L.jpg

[waterj2]

I see that the Lumiquest ProMax system has gotten some mentions. Finally inspired me to do some tests of it myself. Found myself a handy wooden model of a brain of a trout to pose for me.

First up is the 580 directly:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3227/2776583289_bdf88fe04b_b.jpg (http://flickr.com/photos/21898718@N00/2776583289/)

Next is the 580 bounced off the ten foot or so ceiling:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3038/2776583293_8518435607_b.jpg (http://flickr.com/photos/21898718@N00/2776583293/)

Next is using the 80/20 on the 580:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3284/2776583301_b5b1f08559_b.jpg (http://flickr.com/photos/21898718@N00/2776583301/)

Next is with the white insert:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3294/2776583307_6de2425209_b.jpg (http://flickr.com/photos/21898718@N00/2776583307/)

And lastly is with the front diffuser screen as well as the white insert:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2279/2776583311_1171c328f7_b.jpg (http://flickr.com/photos/21898718@N00/2776583311/)

[bigcountry]

get a generic fongsphere off of ebay. a lot of people knock it, but i like it.

here are some examples:

http://holzking.net/gallery/albums/weddingexamples/3H0J8502small.jpg

http://holzking.net/gallery/albums/weddingexamples/3H0J6681small.jpg

http://holzking.net/gallery/albums/weddingexamples/3H0J0249dpp.jpg

http://holzking.net/gallery/albums/weddingexamples/3H0J0297.jpg

http://holzking.net/gallery/albums/brittanyjohn/3H0J0863.jpg

http://holzking.net/gallery/albums/kharatom/3H0J4365small.jpg

http://holzking.net/gallery/albums/brittanyjohn/3H0J0866.jpg

http://holzking.net/gallery/albums/kharatom/3H0J4380small.jpg

[cdifoto]

get a generic fongsphere off of ebay. a lot of people knock it, but i like it.
The problem with the fongsphere (original or generic) is if you cannot bounce off a ceiling because it's too high without one, you're going to be in even worse shape when you slip it onto your flash. If you're in a small enough room for the fongsphere to be effective, you really don't need it anyway.

[tim]

Using the Lightsphere you will never take great photos*. The light is just too flat, as the examples in this thread show. Unless you aim to master the art of lighting and getting the flash off the camera, in conjunction with posing, you will be forever doomed to be average. If you're in business you will fail, or at best stay average, as others will understand how to make great light and you will fall by the wayside.

* = exaggeration for dramatic effect ;)

[cdifoto]

Woo hoo! I'm not doomed to fail, so says tim. *happy dance*

:lol:

[alexg]

im surprised nobody has mentioned abbc (a better bounce card) yet...

http://abetterbouncecard.com/

[JDubya]

im surprised nobody has mentioned abbc (a better bounce card) yet...

http://abetterbouncecard.com/

I did, first page ;)

[alexg]

I did, first page ;)

well then... um... i shall eat my hat!

[fiveFPS]

those are some very nice photos! keep it up

[RPCrowe]

I do like the versatility of this unit and, of course, I like the results.

http://www.dembflashproducts.com/diffuser/models/

[bigcountry]

i am doomed to fail due to the use of a fongsphere? nah. i train, say my prayers and eat my vitamins. i may get knocked down, but w/ a regimine like that i'll never fail.

[James P]

I've had good luck with the Gary Fong diffuser. It gives a nicely spread, soft light, especially when used in fill flash situations.

[dpds68]

I am very new to flash should I get a Sto-Fen Omni-Bounce for my 430EX ?

[viet]

I am very new to flash should I get a Sto-Fen Omni-Bounce for my 430EX ?

Get nothing, save money, stick a business care to kick light a bit forward if you need to, otherwise, learn to bounce.

I've used all the gimmicks before and now back to my flash bouncing around and I'm more than a happy camper.

[dpds68]

I have already purchased a pack of 100 8"X5" Index cards and a rubber band :oops: but was unsure of exactly how to attach and in what light and conditions to use .



Get nothing, save money, stick a business care to kick light a bit forward if you need to, otherwise, learn to bounce.

I've used all the gimmicks before and now back to my flash bouncing around and I'm more than a happy camper.

[Titus213]

I have already purchased a pack of 100 8"X5" Index cards and a rubber band :oops: but was unsure of exactly how to attach and in what light and conditions to use .

Put the rubber band (I hope you bought more than one) around the flash head. Put the index card under the rubber band on the back of the flash head. Point the flash head up, in ETTL, shoot. You also might want to put the card on the narrow edge of the head ala abetterbouncecard.

Check out the video at www.abetterbouncecard.com.

[dpds68]

What's the difference between having the card on the narrow side or the wide side ?

[Titus213]

Light wise not much. On the narrow side with the card still pointing toward the subject go to portrait mode. If set right you simply rotate the flash head to keep it pointing up.

[SoccerRef]

Get nothing, save money, stick a business care to kick light a bit forward if you need to, otherwise, learn to bounce.

I've used all the gimmicks before and now back to my flash bouncing around and I'm more than a happy camper.

That is fine until you are in a space where you can't bounce the flash... For example Outdoors.

I have already purchased a pack of 100 8"X5" Index cards and a rubber band :oops: but was unsure of exactly how to attach and in what light and conditions to use .

This is what I use when indoors and bouncing is an option. I bought a pack of black rubber bands...

Light wise not much. On the narrow side with the card still pointing toward the subject go to portrait mode. If set right you simply rotate the flash head to keep it pointing up.

If you aren't doing something to keep the flash over the top of the lens (i.e. a flip bracket) you can still get some odd shadows. I just bought the Stroboframe R4, and I love it.

I am still trying to decide on which "flash box" to use outdoors when I want to soften the flash, and bouncing is not an option.

[dpds68]

Good info thank you

Will the Sto-Fen Omni-Bounce help at all outdoors ?

[Wilt]

Good info thank you

Will the Sto-Fen Omni-Bounce help at all outdoors ?

It helps waste light and helps to run down your batteries, when used outdoors

[dpds68]

Got it :lol: *cancel that order* :o

[Wilt]

Got it :lol: *cancel that order* :o

Go buy a lens hood with that money, or put the money down on a good tripod, it would then be well spent! :)

[Titus213]

...

If you aren't doing something to keep the flash over the top of the lens (i.e. a flip bracket) you can still get some odd shadows. I just bought the Stroboframe R4, and I love it.

That's a great solution for side shadows. The index card is a simple measure to mitigate shadows created by direct flash.

I prefer the Stroboframe camera flip.