My upcoming Elinchrom purchase - help?

[Rudi]

Hi folks,

As some of you here know, I'm currently shooting with Elinchrom D-Lites, and have invested quite a few dollars into different accessories and light modifiers. I am very happy with the Elinchrom system and planning to move up to a more serious/permanent solution in the next few months or so, depending on clients, tides, phases of the Moon, and the state of my bank balance. :D

Originally, I was going to move up to the RX system, with probably a kit similar to this: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/358757-REG/Elinchrom_EL_20744_Digital_Style_600RX_Flash.html
I usually buy the kits because the combined price is usually worth it - you get stands and other extras that are always useful in the studio (at a much better price than buying them separately).

But... lately I am leaning towards something similar to this: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/364094-REG/Elinchrom_EL_10267KITA_Ranger_RX_AS_1100.html
I will still be within the Elinchrom system, they are highly recommended by everyone that I know who has one of these, and it would solve my problem of having to figure out a portable power solution for my monoblocs. I would also gain the "remote" capability of having all the adjustments available to me on the power pack, rather than having to climb a ladder to change the settings on that one light hanging all the way up at the end of the boom (that's never fun). I know that you can get the Skyport RX, and that there's free software to control your lights from your computer, but I already have the Skyport Universal for triggering the strobes, and I see no advantage to having to bring my laptop on location shoots (I hate the idea of controlling the lights from the little Skyport transmitter, seems too fiddly to me). And I can use them inside my studio, even leave them plugged in for extended sessions, AFAIK.

So... I don't see a disadvantage to buying a pack and head system, but maybe I'm missing something. I already know that they will take all my accessories, and AFAIK they will work great inside the studio as well as out in the field. My D-Lites can stay in the studio and double up as background lights, whatever. I like them too much to get rid of them. What I'm looking for are flaws in my logic - am I missing something? I'm looking for honest opinions from people who actually own or have used the Ranger system - what do you think of it? Given a "do-over", would you buy it all over again, or would you buy something else? (Keep in mind that I'd prefer to stay with Elinchrom). Would you go with monoblocs instead, and if so, why???

Let's not make this into a religious discussion, but please let me know your views. Thanks in advance! :)

[Rudi]

And just to get you started, I have been told (and you can kinda tell from the specs) that the modeling lights on these are pretty much useless. Better than nothing, but not even close to any good monobloc. That's the only negative that I can see at this point...

[tim]

How powerful are the battery powered lights? How long do they run, and do they have modelling lights?

[Hermes]

The main reason I've ended up sticking with monoblocs (and why I use Style RXs instead of the Ranger RXs myself) is that I don't want cables everywhere - I work with a lot of hairlights, accent lights, e.t.c. and having to keep them wired to powerpacks would fill my studio floor with cables that I'd constantly have to move, tape down, e.t.c.

If I did a lot of beach & swimwear shoots shoots where I had to face the elements or overpower the sun with flash, I might have gone for a battery pack & heads but my location work generally falls into two categories - 1) shoots where I need maximum portability and the ability to setup quickly, in which case i use small strobes as they can be easily carried and powered. 2) shoots on a proper location set with mains power, setup time, assistance, e.t.c. In which case monoblocs are easier to position as they only need to be connected to a power outlet.

The modelling light issue isn't that big a deal. However, being able to adjust the RXs individually with the transmitter is a joy - when you're metering and you don't have to move to change the lighting ratios you'll soon stop worrying about whether it's fiddly or not. I have the skyport software & USB transceiver but I only really use it when I need a special effect or when I'm doing the initial setup - I make 95% of my adjustments with the transmitter.

[Rudi]

How powerful are the battery powered lights? How long do they run, and do they have modelling lights?

1100Ws power packs, but the Ranger strobes are actually 2400Ws if you buy a larger pack. With the 1100Ws power pack, a 7-stop range means that they go from 1100Ws down to 17Ws, and yes they have modeling lights. :)

[Gentleman Villain]

The ranger makes a good backup light system in the studio...but the lack of model lights makes it horrible as a studio mainlight.

It's too powerful for accent lights and background lights. The 300Rx units are better suited for those kinds of things because they power down the lowest of the Elinchrom range.

[Gentleman Villain]

How powerful are the battery powered lights? How long do they run, and do they have modelling lights?

The Elinchrom battery goes forever if used on power saving mode....I can usually get like 3 shoots out of one charge. The model light is about 50watt and shuts off automatically after about 20 seconds. That's the main reason I don't like using it in the studio...Plus...it's too damn powerful. The only way to stop it down within reasonable range F11-F8 for the portraits I do is to run two heads and split it symmetrically. IT's way too darn powerful for grids and snoots.

Perfect for using outdoors and overpowering the sun.

[Rudi]

Gentleman Villain,

Which Ranger kit have you got? Are you saying that you can't turn it down the full 7 stops with just the one head? Why???

[hawk911]

Rudi, in case you have considered the Dlites and the Innovatronix Explorer XT, here's some interesting information: (from my e-mail question to Innovatronix on powering 2 D4 units)

Hello Mr Geoff:

Sorry for being not clear enough.
By continuous flashes, popping up of the strobe/s immediately after it becomes ready.
For example, the strobes recycle in 3-4 seconds or becomes ready and you fire again. And so on.
After about 30-35 pops, the "Er" message will most likely come out. (For Dlites)

For larger lights or power packs or possible cases of overloading, thermal shutdown feature will be activated, as described below.

Thank you.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Geoff Wilde [mailto:hawkphotography@earthlink.net]
Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 7:13 PM
To: marketing@innovatronix.com
Subject: RE: Dlites and explorer XT (Inquiry from Geoff)


The next obvious question is what does Innovatronix consider continuous flashes? 30-35 in burst mode, or 30-35 in intervals of 3-5 seconds apart, or can I shoot uninterrupted with a minute between each shot?



Thanks for your reply.



From: Marketing Department [mailto:marketing@innovatronix.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 3:36 AM
To: hawkphotography@earthlink.net
Subject: RE: Dlites and explorer XT (Inquiry from Geoff)
Importance: High





Dear Mr Geoff:

Good day and thank you for your inquiry.

This is now possible with the newly updated Explorer XT. It can power up to two Dlites at both 400ws, however, up to about 30-35 continuous pops/flashes and you'll have to give the unit a rest for the couple of minutes. Or the Dlite will display "Er" message. This is because the unit is programmed to shut down before the unit overheats.
(If one Dlite4 is connected, this will not happen.) The continuous power of Explorer XT has been increased to 350watts from 325watts.

The unit has a therman shutdown feature where the RED LED will give a continuous, fast blinking coupled with a series of buzzer. When this happens, the AC output (or the unit) automatically shuts off.
(This is a protective measure against overheating and overloading).

If the Dlite displays "Er", it will reset the setting and you go back to power up stage.

After a while, you will need to turn on the unit again and continue on shooting.

This may sound inconvenient, but this is due to inability of battery-powered devices to continuously power lights unlike the power provided by the convenience or household outlet. Somehow, the battery-powered devices are limited up to a certain level.

These information can now be read on the newly updated User's Guide of the product.

Thank you and if you have other questions, feel free to send us an email.

Sincerely,
Glen Dedicatoria
Innovatronix Inc
T +63 2 645 1592
F +63 2 645 1592
W www.innovatronix.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Geoff [mailto:hawkphotography@earthlink.net]
Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 3:13 AM
To: innovatronixcom
Subject: Dlites and explorer XT

Can I run 2 Dlite 4 units at once, and at what power?

================================================== ====================

[DocFrankenstein]

I've shot with a powerpack and the cables are no fun.

Also, AFAIK the lights on booms usually require minimal power - 2400 ws is just never needed there - I'd put 300 ws at most and adjust it as needed.

[hawk911]

I'm not saying I'd ever shoot both at full power, but I would sure hate to be onsite and not have it.

[Gentleman Villain]

Gentleman Villain,

Which Ranger kit have you got? Are you saying that you can't turn it down the full 7 stops with just the one head? Why???

Are you already familiar with power packs or would this be your first time using one?

[DocFrankenstein]

I'm not saying I'd ever shoot both at full power, but I would sure hate to be onsite and not have it.
You can never have enough power, really. Even 4800 ws might not be enough once you diffuse it and move a bit away from the subject.

[hawk911]

Are you already familiar with power packs or would this be your first time using one?

that sounds a bit like a loaded question....

[Gentleman Villain]

that sounds a bit like a loaded question....

I'm trying to help the OP and was wondering if he's new to power packs. IS that ok with you?

[hawk911]

I'm trying to help the OP and was wondering if he's new to power packs. IS that ok with you?

sorry, was not meant accusatory. I was just wondering what the next question or useful information might be. Should have called it a leading question. :o

[Gentleman Villain]

You can never have enough power, really. Even 4800 ws might not be enough once you diffuse it and move a bit away from the subject.

diffraction

I've shot with a powerpack and the cables are no fun.

Also, AFAIK the lights on booms usually require minimal power - 2400 ws is just never needed there - I'd put 300 ws at most and adjust it as needed.

Every commercial studio I've been in has the most powerful pack hooked up to the light that's on the boom. Maybe it's different in a rinky dink portrait studio where the only reason to use a boom is to add a hairlight....in that case....yeah it would be best to have lower power

[Gentleman Villain]

sorry, was not meant accusatory. I was just wondering what the next question or useful information might be. Should have called it a leading question. :o

OK - I should have just answered his question but I was afraid he would think I was being condescending if he already knew about power packs.

If a pack is stopped down to it's lowest setting while using one attached head, then adding a second head to the same pack will split the power in half.

So if a single head is attached to the pack and it measures F8 at the lowest power setting, then adding a second head will drop the measure down to 5.6 without changing any power settings on the pack.

[DocFrankenstein]

Every commercial studio I've been in has the most powerful pack hooked up to the light that's on the boom. Maybe it's different in a rinky dink portrait studio where the only reason to use a boom is to add a hairlight....in that case....yeah it would be best to have lower power
I'm sorry, I didn't realize he was starting a commercial studio without knowing what kind of lights to get.

And usually, in non commercial studios the key goes on a stand and only the hairlight goes on the boom to remove the stand from the background. Somehow I don't think the OP is going to have a 5kws powerpack with an 8 foot octadome on a boom as the key light, like in most commercial studios.

[Gentleman Villain]

I'm sorry, I didn't realize he was starting a commercial studio without knowing what kind of lights to get.

And usually, in non commercial studios the key goes on a stand and only the hairlight goes on the boom to remove the stand from the background. Somehow I don't think the OP is going to have a 5kws powerpack with an 8 foot octadome on a boom as the key light, like in most commercial studios.

That's kind of like saying...If the OP is gonna be a hack then he should follow your advice LOL :)

[Gentleman Villain]

Hey Doc

No harm no foul dude...I'm just having some fun. We all like photography there's no reason for us not to get along. Forums are funny place cuz it's so easy to misinterpret each other.

[divinemethod]

OK - I should have just answered his question but I was afraid he would think I was being condescending if he already knew about power packs.

If a pack is stopped down to it's lowest setting while using one attached head, then adding a second head to the same pack will split the power in half.

So if a single head is attached to the pack and it measures F8 at the lowest power setting, then adding a second head will drop the measure down to 5.6 without changing any power settings on the pack.


Forgive me if I am wrong, I've only had a chance to use the symmetrical pack. but the AS speed pack allows you to split the ratio down to 1:3 if you want right? Also mixing the A and the S heads you could also get a bit more flexibility.

This is the reason I've been collection elinchrom nicknacks, so I hope I am not wrong :$

[kennykodak]

my studio has run on various Elinchrom systems for years. i currently prefer the Ranger.
having 1100ws of power any where any time is a good feeling. especially when doing wedding formals in a strong backlite scene.

[DocFrankenstein]

That's kind of like saying...If the OP is gonna be a hack then he should follow your advice LOL :)
LOL

If he has 20 foot ceilings and a extra 5 grand...

[Gentleman Villain]

Forgive me if I am wrong, I've only had a chance to use the symmetrical pack. but the AS speed pack allows you to split the ratio down to 1:3 if you want right? Also mixing the A and the S heads you could also get a bit more flexibility.

This is the reason I've been collection elinchrom nicknacks, so I hope I am not wrong :$

Yes, that's totally true

The concept of splitting power is exactly the same with the AS because the two A heads are still sharing the same 1100 ws power pack.

[Gentleman Villain]

LOL

If he has 20 foot ceilings and a extra 5 grand...

Throw in a 50mp hasselblad and you've got a deal :)

[TMR Design]

Hi Gentleman Villain,

My studio is small and as much as I love the idea of pack and head I'm getting the feeling that with limited space, the way the power is distributed and lack or powerful modeling lights, it doesn't seem like a great choice for my studio.

On the other hand, based on my experience with the PCB Vagabond II and information provided about the Tronix Explorer and Explorer XT, there doesn't seem to a powerful and reliable portable battery. From the info and Elinchrom users such as Frank Doorhof it seems like powering a 2 light BX or RX setup on location would require an Explorer dedicated to each light.

The upside to the RX's are the powerful modeling lights and individual control over each light with 1/10 stop accuracy. There are no issues with power distribution and you can just grab a strobe and run, making it a bit more portable and flexible in that sense.

I can see why people with the cash and clientele to justify it would have a set of RX's and a Ranger for location work.

Do you agree that for a small studio it makes more sense to have RX's over the Ranger?

Any ideas or input on this? If you had to pick one system would you choose the Ranger or RX's and 2 Explorer's?

[Rudi]

What Robert said! :(

I'm coming to the conclusion that I will have to end up with both monoblocs for my studio, and a Ranger system with one (possibly two) heads for outdoors work. But... if I could only have one, which one? (Because I *will* only have one for some time, before I can buy the other as well). I was told that unless I shoot at least 70% on-location, monoblocs are the better choice, and to get a pack and head system once I exceed that ratio. From everything I've read here, it sounds like good advice.

[Gentleman Villain]

I can see why people with the cash and clientele to justify it would have a set of RX's and a Ranger for location work.

Remember the old cliche about how the "shoes make the man"

Photography is exactly the same way. If a photographer starts his business and plans his gear with the idea in mind that he will get top clients in his market, then he will get the top clients in his market.


Do you agree that for a small studio it makes more sense to have RX's over the Ranger?

99% of the time I bet that is the best route...definitely



Any ideas or input on this? If you had to pick one system would you choose the Ranger or RX's and 2 Explorer's?

I just really think the Ranger is a sweet "outdoor" location rig. It's the best! It's a great single or dual light source on location but is a little frustrating as a dedicated studio system. And for indoor location shooting with access to power I'd usually prefer to use regular RX units. NOt always, but usually.

If I were shooting majority studio with access to power then I'd definitely get the regular RX monoblocks or packs.

[DavidPhoto]

Definitely get the RX's (or BX's). The Ranger is no substitute in the studio for a real pack or monolights.

[Rudi]

OK, just an update for anyone still interested. :)

I will be picking up the two-light RX600 kit (we get the 39" Rotalux square softbox thrown in here in Oz, because they're feeling guilty about ripping us off on the price :D). Since most of my on-location outdoor shoots require one light, I will start off with a Tronix Explorer XT and see how that goes. I use the sun as the second light, and I have speedlights if I need additional lights in a pinch. A lot of my other gigs have access to AC power, so monoblocs will be the better deal there.

If that works, I will pick up an RX1200 as well for the outdoor stuff, and end up with a sweet three-light RX outfit (five lights all up including my D-Lites). If not, I will end up with a Ranger eventually...

[Gentleman Villain]

That sounds awesome!

If you plan on mixing strobes with sunlight then it might be worth thinking about something like the large Westcott scrim Jims and California sun bounce panels etc...

I love the look of direct sunlight filtered through a diffusion panel mixed with Elinchrom softboxes...that is a sweet look :-) ...thought I'd add it because it sounds like the direction you might be going...good luck with your photography