The Wedding Files: You're Worth What you Charge... or ARE You?

[charlesu]

You know, one of my studiomates is a wedding shooter. She's trying now to reinvent herself as a commercial--portrait--wedding photographer. That's going to be TOUGH to pull off. But that's not the point of my post.

Wedding business has fallen off a bit here, along with everything else. Part of it is the economy. Part of it is the emergence of the $1,000 digital wedding shooters (anyone with a D70 and the stupidity to call themselves a wedding photographer). Anyway, my studiomate had noticed a fall off in business despite being one of the best in the city. She had a request last spring for a discount. She thought about it and then agreed, thinking some sale pricing might be in order.

So she goes and shoots the wedding which is at some big, downtown church. Then she shoots the reception which is at the big yacht club on the lake. As she is shooting she looks around and thinks "Wow, I'd like to be a member of a yacht club". Then she remembers the discount she gave.

That was her one and only ever discount. She didn't do it again last year and decided she'd rather work at Starbucks than put up with the stress of wedding photography.....at a discount. In other words, she'd rather work for $10 an hour and not have all the crap to deal with. I see her point. Everytime I quote my price to someone and they want to negotiate, I suggest they get their own camera and try it themselves.

[Mike Panic]

a friend of mine who is a very sucessfull wedding photographer asked me if i thought 40 weddings for 2005 was enough (last week). i asked her if her profits from those 40 weddings were enough to live comfy - and she said yes... but she was still getting at least 1-2 bookings per week she had been having second thoughts on turning down, because she is already booked so well thru 2005. i took a gander at her prices and told her that if she takes on any more weddings this year, and for 2006 it would be in her best intrest to raise her rates, by at least 15% if not 25%. she said that she thought she was charging enough for the weddings. again i reminded her that shes already got 40 this year booked and she gets calls daily about booking more... if she raises the rates she can afford to turn away a few more jobs and focus more on the bigger package weddings that yield more money and if she booked 2006 as packed as 2005 w/ a 25% (min) rate increase, she would start to see that she is worth more money

point is (since that is a lil loose on points) - if you have constant work and are not struggling to get jobs, raise your rates... because people are hiring you based on the quality of your work and would be willing to pay a little more. as cheap as people have been getting lately, quality is something they still look for

[Mike Panic]

i met her thru my job, which is at a mom & pop style camera shop (non coprerate) which offers a lot of pro photographer benefits... so yes, she has a GREAT lab behind her, and she is still shooting about 85-90% film at this point.

her prices are on the web, so i dont see harm in mentioning them here, she offers 3 packages from $1600-3200, and they are all pretty decent

as for the time it takes to assemble the books... she doenst mind - she has 2 children so working at home is ideal for her

[IndyJeff]

Just a couple of comments here from me....

1. If your booking 80% or better of the calls you get, your too cheaply priced.

2. If your booking 50% you can probably raise your prices by 15-25% and still book the same 50%.

3. When someone complains that your pricing is too cheap for what they were expecting a good reply is..."Well I price my work so that I can cover my costs, make a living off of it and to give a good value to the customer. I have set my pricing with my needs as well as the customer's dollars in mind. Paying more doesn't always mean you get better quality. If you look at my portfoilo you can see examples of my work. Compare that to the work of guys who are twice the price and what do you get from them that I can not deliver for a price which I feel is fair to the both of us?" Put the ball in their court make them justify to you why they want to pay more for the same quanity and quality.

4. Never, ever, ever discount your pricing for two reasons. First you are telling the customer that "yes I can do your job for less money because I have inflated my original quote to you. Secondly and most importantly, you are chancing the fact that by giving a discount you will be lowering the value of your work in the future. If I do weddings and I quote you a price of say $2000 and you say you really like my work but, I am priced a bit out of your budget. If I can come down by $500 for the same package you will hire me. Ok so I do now, two girls who are in the wedding party get engaged in the next year. They call you and ask for my name. You talk and tell them what kind of package you got and they ask how much. You don't mention that I gave you a discount only that it was $1500. They call me and want the same package I gave you. When I say the price is $2000 they gasp, "Oh you charged my friend $1500." Ok so you discount both of those. That 1 time discount has now cost you $1500 or the price of a discounted wedding. Now think about if a potential client asks for references. Boy you better hope you don't give out the name of one of the discounted brides. If she tells them what she paid or, heaven forbid, she mentions that you will give a discount if asked your work has just lost 25% of the value it had before that first discount wedding.
Discounting only hurts you in the long run.

[IndyJeff]

I like the idea of hinting to their getting away after it all. Then when they object to your pricing ask them if the travel agent gave them a discount? How about the caterer, did they get a discount there too? Is the band/DJ giving 25% off as well? Of course the limo guy is surely cutting them a 25% off deal as well isn't he?


You know there is absoulutely nothing wrong with haggeling over the price, as long as your buying a car. They expect that and price the vehicles above what they want for a final price.

[dpp]

Oh dear , oh dear, This is my second full year running my own wedding photography business and I seem to have fallen in to all the wrong traps that you have been mentioning, (thank god I read this forum)

When I started I set myself target to reach, this yearhas so far been great I have 20 wedding booked for this year and have exceeded my initial target, I am booking a large percentage of the people that I get to see, the last count I booked 8 out of 8 that I saw.

So the other night I sat down with my wife to pontificate and pat myself on the back. I started working out the profit on each wedding, and it was nowhere near what I wanted/expected it to be. I am not charging anywhere near enough for my service and especially the album. I offer discounts on everything (wrong move).

Anywhere to cut a long story short I am going to increase my prices next year by at least £100 (iro $200) next year. I figure that with referals(hopefully) I will get the same if not more enquiries and I can lower the number of weddings I am shooting for minimal profit.

Its a great learning curve, I think my downfall has beem not appreciating the little ability I have and constantly putting my work down and thinking others are better than me. I guess its good to be critical of your own work, but you also need to look at the bigger picture sometimes.

My only dilemma is that I live in an area that nationally has one of the lowest £ per head earnings in the country, the good this is that all the rich guys from London come here to get married, as its very quant and scenic. I would prefer local referrals to build my business, but need the posh venues to establish myself.

[beachhoppr]

I am just jumping into the waters on this forum.

I decided early on to limit my exposure by limiting the number of weddings I shoot. I rarely shoot more than 6-10 weddings a year. Initially for my sanity. But now, oddly enough, this philosophy has made me a tough, reclusive (and therefore "exclusive") photographer to book. I turn down 20-30 weddings a year.

[IndyJeff]

BlooDog you know you make a great point which could be an excellent selling point. The cake will be gone and forgotten when the wedding is over, the dress is worn once. The limo ride is just a glorified and overpriced taxi cab, a DJ/band plays music but, the photographs will last for generations and may become family heirlooms. Now where should you cut your pricing for your wedding? On something that lasts for a day or something you will want your grandkids to show their kids?

[Tomasz Dziechciarz]

Dear All,

I am living in Poland and there is completely different price level.
I would like to know more about your offers. How much picture you gives for how much many, how much you pay for prints? This is completely different economic surroundings but I try to review my offer ....

[IndyJeff]

Tomasz welcome to the forum and my suggestion to you would be search the web for wedding photograhers in Poland. Check their prices and what kind of packages they offer. That would be a good starting point for you.

[beachhoppr]

Bloo,
I have always been reluctant to shoot for the purposes of selling work or services so I probably wouldn't handle the wedding situation any differently no matter my situation. I do it just enough to be managably fun :)

[IndyJeff]

LOL

Indy, you should be a copywriter!


LOL I am available for special projects which would include writing copy for your ads!!

[IndyJeff]

Bloo,
I have always been reluctant to shoot for the purposes of selling work or services so I probably wouldn't handle the wedding situation any differently no matter my situation. I do it just enough to be managably fun :)


beachhoppr, may I ask why you would be reluctant to shoot for the purpose of selling your work or services?

[Longwatcher]

I like this thread it is reminding again why I don't ever want to do wedding photography.

I have told a few people that if they could find nobody else to do it, I can, but you probably won't like my rates. They ask what would I charge and I say that I would ask for $4000 at a minimum probably higher (followed closely by a chokeing sound). They ask why so much for a few hours work and then I go one to explain what would actually be involved, like editing , proofing, printing, and prorating my $20,000 in equipment costs for example. Or about at least a weeks worth of work to me since I don't do weddings on a regular basis plus my costs. So if lucky I might make $1000-1500 profit, nice if I could do one a week.

And then I point out that I am not a professional wedding photographer and although I will do the best job I can, I would recommend they get a professional for the wedding. It will probably cost a bit less and they will get better results.

But if all they want for me to do is take pictures and hand the CD over to them, I will charge what I charge everyone, $125/hour and for that I keep copyright and specifically the right to use the photos in my portfolio. I charge even more if they want the copyright. I do have a discount rate, but only if I know they will be getting prints from me. They also have to understand that the photos will need to be edited.

So far nobody has taken me up on my wedding offer. I should in fairness mention that I have shot a friend's wedding as a gift, but they only got the CD and a very small number of unmounted , but edited prints.


Just me, but then I have a day job.

[beachhoppr]

Indy,
No reason in particular. I just tend to be a bit reclusive like that and always preferred to shoot simply for myself and to fill up closet space :) But I found a niche in professional ballet photography and eventually I got around to selling work and doing weddings which have both proven to be fun (when managed). Oddly though, my great aunt who is a photographer for National Geographic amongst other things is very similar. It's very difficult for her to even let people VIEW her work.