White Balancing for Sodium Vapor with Strobes

[mattograph]

For the first time, I will be doing some Volleyball shooting on an official basis. I was curious if anyone had any suggestions or tricks for balancing strobes (ceiling mounted) against sodium vapor lights.

[Redfish]

Shoot a gray card. Just remember to keep your shutter speed at either 1/60 or 1/30th because of the cycle time of the lights and you should be good to go

Steve

[mattograph]

Shoot a gray card. Just remember to keep your shutter speed at either 1/60 or 1/30th because of the cycle time of the lights and you should be good to go

Steve


Yikes!!! How can I do that? The girls will all be moving!!!!

[folville]

Shoot a gray card. Just remember to keep your shutter speed at either 1/60 or 1/30th because of the cycle time of the lights and you should be good to go

Steve

I thought that was only with florescent bulbs? ???

I've shot plenty of events under sodium vapor lights without any banding due to the lights..

[SoccerRef]

Shooting a gray card is correct. And You are right, you can not shoot sports at 1/60.

But, keep in mind that you will loose some shots due to funky timing with the light cycle. The strobes will be a huge help and will eliminate funk from most of the spectrum, but there will be spots in the light spectrum where you will not get what you are expecting.

So, even shooting a gray card, Be prepared to do some color correction in PP. Here's a helpful hint... Last year I shot a wrestling tournament in a gym where I had color issues previously. I moved a gray trash can that was very close in color to my gray card so that it could be seen off to the right of my photos. I then used it to set color on the half a dozen photos where the WB wasn't right, and then cropped it out. It worked like a charm.

[dmwierz]

Yikes!!! How can I do that? The girls will all be moving!!!!

He means to set your shutter speed <1/60s for the gray card CWB shot only. This will eliminate the color cycling of the lights, allowing you to capture the steady-state color of the lights. Once you shift to your regular shutter speed, though, you will see colors change as you catch the lights in portions of their color cycles.

[mattograph]

He means to set your shutter speed <1/60s for the gray card CWB shot only. This will eliminate the color cycling of the lights, allowing you to capture the steady-state color of the lights. Once you shift to your regular

Ah.. That makes perfect sense.

[cecilc]

For the first time, I will be doing some Volleyball shooting on an official basis. I was curious if anyone had any suggestions or tricks for balancing strobes (ceiling mounted) against sodium vapor lights.

I've read all the replies to the original OP, and if I'm missing something, somebody please let me know ... but isn't the question concerning shooting volleyball with ceiling-mounted strobes ? ?

And, in that case, wouldn't you just shoot with either AWB or with a custom white balance using the strobes ? It seems to me that all this talk of cycling lights wouldn't apply if you're using strobes to light the court.

As I said, if I've missed something here, please let me know ....

[SoccerRef]

Cecil...

The ceiling mounted strobes will add light, but the existing lighting doesn't go away. The existing lighting will still affect the photo. Having strobes is definitely better than to NOT have them, but they do not completely illiminate the effect of the existing lighting on photos being taken.

[mattograph]

Well, had the first shoot this weekend. I was not able to set up my strobes, and the gym had the worst lighting I had ever seen.

A question. I know that the lights are constantly color shifting, but are there certain shutter speeds where you might notice the color shift in a single frame?

[SoccerRef]

Mattograph...

The simple answer is Yes, any shutter speed faster than the recycle duration of the lights will be fast enough to notice the shift. Your shutter must remain open through exactly ONE complete cycle to have no effect.

[mattograph]

Mattograph...

The simple answer is Yes, any shutter speed faster than the recycle duration of the lights will be fast enough to notice the shift. Your shutter must remain open through exactly ONE complete cycle to have no effect.

Thanks.

Man, I got some gross photos. Looks like someone threw up on my sensor.

I must strobe.

[SoccerRef]

Post a few...

[SkipD]

Your shutter must remain open through exactly ONE complete cycle to have no effect.Actually, when shooting in gas-discharge lighting a shutter speed capturing 1/2 of the power line cycle is enough.

For areas using 60Hz power, that means that you could use 1/120 second (or 1/60, 1/30, 1/15, etc.).

For areas using 50Hz power, the shutter speeds you can use are 1/100, 1/50, 1/25, 1/12.5, etc.

[Grimes]

Pretty good gray card instructions I googled up:

http://www.digitalartsphotography.com/instructions.htm

[walternewton]

I have zero experience with this so I'm asking this for my own education rather than as offering advice - is it possible to gel the strobes to assist in color matching to the lights?

[SoccerRef]

Actually, when shooting in gas-discharge lighting a shutter speed capturing 1/2 of the power line cycle is enough.

For areas using 60Hz power, that means that you could use 1/120 second (or 1/60, 1/30, 1/15, etc.).

For areas using 50Hz power, the shutter speeds you can use are 1/100, 1/50, 1/25, 1/12.5, etc.

ok, but there is no way anyone is shooting volleyball at 1/120!

[SkipD]

ok, but there is no way anyone is shooting volleyball at 1/120!While it is true that you won't "stop action" with a 1/120 second shutter speed, if the only lighting you have available is changing both its intensity and color over each half-cycle of the AC power feeding the lights, there's not a thing you can do to achieve proper exposures and colors in your images other than to blast the area with some very large flash units.

Totally overpowering the lighting is the only solution if you do not want to limit yourself to the shutter speeds that work with the gas-discharge lighting.

[SoccerRef]

While it is true that you won't "stop action" with a 1/120 second shutter speed, if the only lighting you have available is changing both its intensity and color over each half-cycle of the AC power feeding the lights, there's not a thing you can do to achieve proper exposures and colors in your images other than to blast the area with some very large flash units.

Totally overpowering the lighting is the only solution if you do not want to limit yourself to the shutter speeds that work with the gas-discharge lighting.

Couldn't agree more. Which is my point. If your only choice is to shoot at 1/120 or slower... Leave the camera at home and enjoy the game. Or limit yourself to taking photos of huddles during break time and players set and waiting for a service (ie no action shots).

The reality is, you have to shoot a fast action sport like volleyball with a fast shutter, period. So you have two choices, blast it with light, or shoot raw, and KNOW that you are going to have no choice but to color correct 90% of your shots.

As I said earlier, one way to do that is to shoot in such a way that you have something in the background that you can use to adjust your color in PP. I gave an example earlier of a garbage can, but I have also pulled out an 8x10 grey card and set it strategically so that it appeared in my shots in the bottom right or left corner. It limits your available angles from which to shoot, but it allows for easier color correction in PP. Then after color correction, you simply crop it out.

[mattograph]

I had to go with RAW

This was shot at 1/320, which was actually a little too fast for the lighting, but I got fairly lucky here. I don't know if the EXIF will hold, so:

ISO 1250
f/3.2
1/320 sec
70-200mm 2.8

WB, color correct, and sharpening in LR2. Noiseware Pro and Sharpening in PSE.

Comments?

http://mattograph.smugmug.com/photos/358460881_aTcbm-L-2.jpg

[PhotosGuy]

- is it possible to gel the strobes to assist in color matching to the lights? I don't recommend trying it. The sodium lights aren't full spectrum. As Skip said, "Totally overpowering the lighting is the only solution if you do not want to limit yourself to the shutter speeds that work with the gas-discharge lighting."

Best to shoot some tests in your gym & see what you can get away with. I had to go with RAW They look pretty good exposure wise. Maybe a bit on the yellow side as to color. Some tests from my last years effort:
Some Volly Ball Tournament Tests **56K Warning!** (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=394723)

This year I'll start with the 85 f/1.8

[mattograph]

I don't recommend trying it. The sodium lights aren't full spectrum. As Skip said, "Totally overpowering the lighting is the only solution if you do not want to limit yourself to the shutter speeds that work with the gas-discharge lighting."

Best to shoot some tests in your gym & see what you can get away with. They look pretty good exposure wise. Maybe a bit on the yellow side as to color. Some tests from my last years effort:
Some Volly Ball Tournament Tests **56K Warning!** (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=394723)

This year I'll start with the 85 f/1.8

Thanks. The reference threads are extremely helpful.

Funny you mention yellow. To me, the bottom half of the photo feels blue, and the top look yellow. The girls were standing under two totally different color lights -- as visible to the naked eye. Shots from the other side of the gym were much better.

Next time we play here, I am going to light this place.

[PhotosGuy]

Funny you mention yellow. To me, the bottom half of the photo feels blue, and the top look yellow. I ignore the "unimportant" background color & adjust for the skin tones. Nobody will like a green kid? :D