Need more RAm in my PC, need help deciding what kind...

[turbodude]

I need some new ram in my machine, its a little outdated for todays standards,but noticing it runs alot slower with the newer versions of Adobe products, So i would like to upgrade my ram, and save up for a bigger build later.

Still running Windows XP svc pk 2
e6400 dual core
gskill 2gb ram
asus p5d deluxe board
NOT over clocked.

Please help meout, ram is so cheap these days i know XP can use up to 4gb, so i would like to up it to 4gb, pereferrably in 2 x 2GB sticks. Thanks!

[Tsmith]

I'd just get two more sticks of the same kind you already have. Once you do you'll need to edit for boot.ini file so Photoshop will be able to use up to 3 gigs. I can give you the value to edit the file with when needed.

I'm running WinXP SP3 with no intentions of moving to Vista.

Intel Core2 Dou E6700 with 4x 1GB of Corsair XMS C4 PC6400. The memory addition helped for sure.

[tim]

This page (http://www.asus.com/products.aspx?l1=3&l2=11&l3=307&model=1295&modelmenu=1) says "Dual-channel DDR2 800/667/533". I use Kingston ValueRam, which works well and is pretty cheap.

Not sure any more RAM will help much (edit - though Mr Smith says otherwise so go with what he said), unless you regularly max it out. It's still a decent board, you can upgrade to quad core if you want.

[Whirlwind]

what's this about editing the boot.ini file?

[Tsmith]

what's this about editing the boot.ini file?

Its a command value that needs to be edited to the boot file so Photoshop sees the additional RAM. Otherwise your additional memory will go unnoticed by the program.

To turbodude - you need a Scratch Disk away from you main drive too if you don't already. Preferably a fast HD.

[gosmall]

TSmith, are you referring to this: ?

multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS="Windows XP Media Center Edition" /noexecute=optin /fastdetect /noexecute=alwayson /pae

[gosmall]

Microsoft boot.ini reference...

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb963892.aspx

[Tsmith]

TSmith, are you referring to this: ?

multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS="Windows XP Media Center Edition" /noexecute=optin /fastdetect /noexecute=alwayson /pae

I'm using WinXP Home

multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition" /fastdetect /NoExecute=OptIn /userva=2800 /3GB /PAE

It needs the userva data for Photoshop

[turbodude]

what is everyone saying!!!!!!!! so greeek!

[KarlosDaJackal]

what is everyone saying!!!!!!!! so greeek!

What they are saying is, if you get more ram xp will not see all of it. Normally when you go to 4gig, then xp and vista (normal 32bit versions) will only see anyware from 2.5 gigs - 3.5 gigs.

The instructions above allow xp to see all your new extra ram, but will cost a little cpu performance at the same time.

If you had a 64bit os (XP64 or Vista64) then you would see all the ram with no performance cost.

[turbodude]

so i shouldnt get more ram? its a hundred bucks even if it gets me a little speed id be happy, but i dotn want to throw the money away either.

[KarlosDaJackal]

I'd say 4 gig is a waste of money with any 32bit OS.

But everybody is different, the question is really do you regularly run out of ram with 2 gigs? Because if don't haven't whats the point in getting more.

[turbodude]

i def do, it kills my machine running lightroom and ps at the same time, uploading 1200 raw images

[hawkeye60]

I doubt that you would be able to see any speed difference with another gig of ram.

[KarlosDaJackal]

i def do, it kills my machine running lightroom and ps at the same time, uploading 1200 raw images

It might kill your machine but is that because the rams full, or the cpu is too busy or the hard disk is too slow......

If its because the ram is filling and then it starts to trash the had disk, yea the ram is a great idea.

[turbodude]

i have raptors as my workign drives so i doubt its teh drive speed. it could be the processor though, but i know its def using all teh ram

[Tsmith]

To each his own but in my system with specs posted earlier adding 2 matching sticks of RAM for a total of 4 gigs with the boot.ini edit, runs photoshop a lot smoother when working on larger files.

[Whirlwind]

k, I'm clearly incompetent, I can't find the boot.ini file, where's it hiding?

[tim]

c:\boot.ini - sometimes it's hidden, it's possible it's not there yet. Try creating it and see if it lets you, if it does it doesn't exist yet.

[BassBiggieD]

your machine isnt out dated by much
if your running XP there is no reason to have anymore than 2 gigs

just overclock it mildly

at least have the c2d @ 3ghz, probly do it on stock voltage too

i have a 3ghz e8400 @ 4ghz all the time
and my ram is overclocked, everything is actually

just take the time to find stable settings and dont panic if you BSOD, just reboot and reset your bios jumpers

www.techpowerup.com might help you out a bit

if you want some security for OC'ing your processor, buy a Arctic Cooler Freezer 7 pro
way easy to install and keeps your processor at a nice temp
;)

[mson]

I used to use Corsair value select and was happy with it.

[turbodude]

your machine isnt out dated by much
if your running XP there is no reason to have anymore than 2 gigs

just overclock it mildly

at least have the c2d @ 3ghz, probly do it on stock voltage too

i have a 3ghz e8400 @ 4ghz all the time
and my ram is overclocked, everything is actually

just take the time to find stable settings and dont panic if you BSOD, just reboot and reset your bios jumpers

www.techpowerup.com (http://www.techpowerup.com) might help you out a bit

if you want some security for OC'ing your processor, buy a Arctic Cooler Freezer 7 pro
way easy to install and keeps your processor at a nice temp
;)


would you mind walking me through it, i have no idea how to do it.

[Tsmith]

k, I'm clearly incompetent, I can't find the boot.ini file, where's it hiding?

Right Click on the Desktop My Computer Icon - select Properties - click the Advanced Tab - under Start Up & Recovery click Settings - in the Start Up & Recovery menu click on Edit to open the Boot.ini file for editing.

WinXp 32 bit does work well with 4 gigs of RAM. Even though the system will only see 3 gigs the remaining 1 gig will allow System Processes to use it. Photoshop does run better maxed out for 3 gigs.

The memory will serve you better than the overclock on the CPU. I can overclock my E6700 Processor by 25% and it hardly makes any difference in Photoshop. However if I want to increase my frame rate in Call of Duty 4 the overclock helps in that respect.

[gosmall]

Also, don't forget that video card ram is also included in the Windows XP 4 Gb limitation. If you have a video card with 512 Mb of ram, that takes up 512 Mb of memory that XP can address.

[gosmall]

To see the boot.ini file, go to My Computer and double click your C: drive. On the menu bar, click Tools > Folder Options > View. Scroll down to "Hide portected operating system files (Recommended)" and uncheck it and "Show hidden files and folders.".

I can't express enough how dangerous this can be. It allows the viewing and deletion of files you would not normally see. Be careful.

boot.ini should now be visible. You can edit it with Notepad.

[Tsmith]

Actually Gary you don't have to have the "Show hidden files and folders" selected if you use the path I listed above in my post. At least not on my system. I despise and only use "Show hidden files and folders" when necessary as I don't like all the extra stuff if makes visible.

[ilantis]

I have that same exact setup in my audio recording rig (not sure of memory timings though) and I am able to record 8 channels of audio at once while providing 4 headphone mixes at extremely low latency...how the heck can PS and LR drag that machine to its knees? :shock:

I would recommend with seeing if you can tune up your existing setup. First of all, Windows might just be running a ton of programs when it starts up. To fix this go to Start > Run > Type: msconfig > Ok > Startup Tab, there might be a lot of crap in there that you can disable. Some of the programs have weird names so check under the "Command" column to see just what that program is. All you really need to have in there is security software. Apple HP and Adobe put a bunch of crap in there. If nothing else this should speed up your boot times again. You can also trim items out of the Services tab but you will want to be a little more careful if you do.

Next, cut the eye-candy crap. Right click on your Desktop and go to Properties. Choose the Windows XP Classic theme and hit apply. This will kill the pretty gradients and transparencies but that stuff just wastes RAM that can be put to better use. YMMV here, I got 90MB of RAM back on my laptop after doing this.

Finally you can start cutting services as explained here (the artile actually goes over a lot more...including a couple of the the steps I mentioned here):
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,2845,1153282,00.asp

These few steps are free and I guarantee they will give some level of performance back to your machine. Just be careful and don't be afraid to ask (or PM) before disabling something that you aren't sure of.

P.S. When I was checking the steps for the msconfig step...I found 7 more items that have snuck into my startup menu since I built this machine 2.5 months ago...the tuning process never ends!

[turbodude]

I have that same exact setup in my audio recording rig (not sure of memory timings though) and I am able to record 8 channels of audio at once while providing 4 headphone mixes at extremely low latency...how the heck can PS and LR drag that machine to its knees? :shock:

I would recommend with seeing if you can tune up your existing setup. First of all, Windows might just be running a ton of programs when it starts up. To fix this go to Start > Run > Type: msconfig > Ok > Startup Tab, there might be a lot of crap in there that you can disable. Some of the programs have weird names so check under the "Command" column to see just what that program is. All you really need to have in there is security software. Apple HP and Adobe put a bunch of crap in there. If nothing else this should speed up your boot times again. You can also trim items out of the Services tab but you will want to be a little more careful if you do.

Next, cut the eye-candy crap. Right click on your Desktop and go to Properties. Choose the Windows XP Classic theme and hit apply. This will kill the pretty gradients and transparencies but that stuff just wastes RAM that can be put to better use. YMMV here, I got 90MB of RAM back on my laptop after doing this.

Finally you can start cutting services as explained here (the artile actually goes over a lot more...including a couple of the the steps I mentioned here):
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,2845,1153282,00.asp

These few steps are free and I guarantee they will give some level of performance back to your machine. Just be careful and don't be afraid to ask (or PM) before disabling something that you aren't sure of.

P.S. When I was checking the steps for the msconfig step...I found 7 more items that have snuck into my startup menu since I built this machine 2.5 months ago...the tuning process never ends!

i dunno, i have the ram monitor up and its all green when trying to make adjustments. Sucks :(

[AB8ND]

I would go to Crucial Memory, there is a "Scan My System" button that will check what memory you have and will come back with a list of what you can or could install. A Tinyurl for Crucial is below
I'd say go with as much memory as you can afford

http://************/63ldlm

Jack

[turbodude]

# Maximum Memory Capacity: 8192MB
# Currently Installed Memory: 2GB
# Available Memory Slots: 2
# Number of Banks: 4
# Dual Channel Support: Yes
# CPU Manufacturer: GenuineIntel
# CPU Family: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 CPU 6400 @ 2.13GHz Model 15, Stepping 2
# CPU Speed: 2135 MHz

We were not able to determine the manufacturer and/or model of your PC, but we were able to complete our scan with information from your motherboard.

[Tsmith]

Download this program: CPU-Z (http://www.cpuid.com/cpuz.php)

It should identify the Brand and what the factory memory timings are. You said in you first post that its GSkill so as mentioned before why not just get the same exact kinda that's already in the computer. Less chance of any compatibility issues.

[AB8ND]

I'd fill the 2 available slots with 1g each giving you the 4gig you mentioned.

Jack


# Maximum Memory Capacity: 8192MB
# Currently Installed Memory: 2GB
# Available Memory Slots: 2
# Number of Banks: 4
# Dual Channel Support: Yes
# CPU Manufacturer: GenuineIntel
# CPU Family: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 CPU 6400 @ 2.13GHz Model 15, Stepping 2
# CPU Speed: 2135 MHz

We were not able to determine the manufacturer and/or model of your PC, but we were able to complete our scan with information from your motherboard.

[turbodude]

g.skill, 4200phu1 PC2-4300 (266MHz)

[bohdank]

PC2-4300 memory. Dump the 2 gigs you have and get 4 gigs of PC6400 which runs at 800mhz instead of what you have at 533.

[Tsmith]

PC2-4300 memory. Dump the 2 gigs you have and get 4 gigs of PC6400 which runs at 800mhz instead of what you have at 533.

Sound advice and click the link for 4 gigs for under $90 with free shipping:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231098

[Moppie]

PC2-4300 memory. Dump the 2 gigs you have and get 4 gigs of PC6400 which runs at 800mhz instead of what you have at 533.


Absolutely the best advice here, possible the only good advice posted.

Quick, simple, and the performance increase will be substantial.

[turbodude]

ok thanks guys, do i need to change anything in my bios for these to work correctly?

[Moppie]

Not at all.

Just turn it off, unplug the mains cord (or power switch on the OS if it has one), leave it for a minute, then open the case.

If you see a green or red LED that is still lite on the board, then wait until it turns off.
(This indicates the RAM is still active and working, you don't want to remove ram chips while it is on).

Ground your self, remove the old ram, install the new, put the case back together, plug it in and turn it on.

[turbodude]

Not at all.

Just turn it off, unplug the mains cord (or power switch on the OS if it has one), leave it for a minute, then open the case.

If you see a green or red LED that is still lite on the board, then wait until it turns off.
(This indicates the RAM is still active and working, you don't want to remove ram chips while it is on).

Ground your self, remove the old ram, install the new, put the case back together, plug it in and turn it on.

you think the 4 sticks of 1 gig would be better than 2 sticks of 2gb?

[tim]

you think the 4 sticks of 1 gig would be better than 2 sticks of 2gb?

Yes, more memory can be accessed simultaneously. The CPU spends a lot of time waiting for data from memory so this should give at least a theoretical speedup, not sure how much in practice, but no harm unless you plan to upgrade to 8GB later.

CPU is like ten times faster than RAM, and probably 1000 times faster than hard disk.

[Tsmith]

Not at all.

Just turn it off, unplug the mains cord (or power switch on the OS if it has one), leave it for a minute, then open the case.

If you see a green or red LED that is still lite on the board, then wait until it turns off.
(This indicates the RAM is still active and working, you don't want to remove ram chips while it is on).

Ground your self, remove the old ram, install the new, put the case back together, plug it in and turn it on.

And press the Power On button to discharge any stored mother board power.

[CyberDyneSystems]

what is everyone saying!!!!!!!! so greeek!

I've translated it from the ancient Summarion here;

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=441063