Publicity that Canon don't really need

[cyrn]

Ignore the title, but Canon is sure gonna have their hands full if more users like him "displays" their frustration.

:evil:

http://www.kareldonk.com/karel/2008/08/15/canons-dslr-division-in-trouble/

[mlav]

Nice, thanks for the link.

[FlyingPhotog]

What an unmitigated idiot (the author .. not the photographer with the car...although that ranks right up there too...)

"Canon has been known to intentionally cripple products for marketing purposes. Just look at the 40D and 5D..."

You gotta be kidding me... :rolleyes:

[SilverOnemi]

i actually agree, it really has.

PS: he picked a sigma 300 800 has a nikon.

[coldcase]

What an unmitigated idiot (the author .. not the photographer with the car...although that ranks right up there too...)

"Canon has been known to intentionally cripple products for marketing purposes. Just look at the 40D and 5D..."

You gotta be kidding me... :rolleyes:

Yeah. That made me laughed too. Not very credible when someone says stupid things like that.

[WillOPhotos]

lol says the 1dsmkIII has same focus issues as the 1d? wtf??

[silvex]

Yeah. That made me laughed too. Not very credible when someone says stupid things like that.

Verizon does that to ALL phones.

[theflyingkiwi]

What an unmitigated idiot (the author .. not the photographer with the car...although that ranks right up there too...)

"Canon has been known to intentionally cripple products for marketing purposes. Just look at the 40D and 5D..."

You gotta be kidding me... :rolleyes:

I was thinkig the same thing as you, huh this is the first time I had read anything about the 5D being a crippled product. How long has it been out on the market?

But interesting to see some people taking drastic steps regarding being angry with canon re: the Mk3 auto focus.

[Terrywoodenpic]

Nor Mark has the right to expect brand loyalty.
I have chosen to use a canon 40D with 17-55 lens. It has the features I want, at the price I can afford.

There are feature issues with all Brands, however Quality issues should not be amongst them. In this respect Canon seem to have taken their eye off the ball.

Threads like this are the result.

[kenyc]

Thanks for that link, I'm in full agreement with the Korean and the sentiment of the article (with the exception of that comment about the 5D and 40D). I believe that Canon has shot themselves in the leg with their "completely redesigned autofocus system" which is include in all the cameras mentioned. I certainly experienced the problem with my 1D MkIII but my 40D and 1Ds MkIII are wonderful!

What I see as even worse than having problems (particularly with the 1D MkIII) is that they refuse to admit and deal with it in an open and honest manner -- that is what will kill them.

[SilverOnemi]

oh come on, canon does limit the focus of the 40D has Rob Galbraight tested out... if you want that level of focussing performance go get yoursefl a nice 1d.

also, i'd love to have focussing tuning on my 40D with some other functions that aren't in there for "marketing reasons". and what's canon awnser?

go get yoursefl a 1d3.

btw what the article ment with the 5D is the FPS... that's very slow, canon always wanted a full sensor out of the high fps zones.

[wimg]

oh come on, canon does limit the focus of the 40D has Rob Galbraight tested out... if you want that level of focussing performance go get yoursefl a nice 1d.

also, i'd love to have focussing tuning on my 40D with some other functions that aren't in there for "marketing reasons". and what's canon awnser?

go get yoursefl a 1d3.

btw what the article ment with the 5D is the FPS... that's very slow, canon always wanted a full sensor out of the high fps zones.
Well, maybe the 40D's AF wasn't limited deliberately, but I can assure I had exactly the same problems, focusing in Ai Servo mode. Not a single sharp shot. Granted, it was in low light, but the AF just couldn't keep up.

That, the problems with correct exposure, and the 85L/40D battery problem made me send the camera to Canon for fixing. So far, exposure seems fixed, I haven't had a chance to try out Ai Servo yet, and the 85L/40D battery problem is worse now.

IOW, although the 40D is a great camera, and it works well most of the time, there are a few things that it is supposed to be able to handle, that it just doesn't do right. At least, with my copy.

I am really glad I have a 5D as backup in the mean time.

Kind regards, Wim

[garbidz]

The evidence seems to be out there: Canon has launched a product before it had been thoroughly tested in demanding field surroundings. Computer and software companies do this all the time and car manufacturers have been changing their habits only with Toyota's zero-default policy.

Noisy consumers seem to get their way in one way or another.
I've had two Canon DSLR's fail on me, the 20D straight out of the box and the 30D after an authorized service repair. There is a question rising: What if a Sony DSLR which does not excel on pixelpeepers reviews turns out to be more reliable? Or whatever Samsung.

One only gets pictures with a functioning camera. A buggy one, no matter advanced theoretically, does not do what you dragged it up to the mountain to do.
The backup might...

Reminds me of the Hasselblad days when you had to buy three: One to use, one to be repaired and the third one on its way to or from the repair shop.

"Fait chier" ... I have a big bag full of Canon stuff and now it seems I have to get still a bigger one for the back-ups.

[wimg]

The evidence seems to be out there: Canon has launched a product before it had been thoroughly tested in demanding field surroundings. Computer and software companies do this all the time and car manufacturers have been changing their habits only with Toyota's zero-default policy.

Noisy consumers seem to get their way in one way or another.
I've had two Canon DSLR's fail on me, the 20D straight out of the box and the 30D after an authorized service repair. There is a question rising: What if a Sony DSLR which does not excel on pixelpeepers reviews turns out to be more reliable? Or whatever Samsung.

One only gets pictures with a functioning camera. A buggy one, no matter advanced theoretically, does not do what you dragged it up to the mountain to do.
The backup might...

Reminds me of the Hasselblad days when you had to buy three: One to use, one to be repaired and the third one on its way to or from the repair shop.

"Fait chier" ... I have a big bag full of Canon stuff and now it seems I have to get still a bigger one for the back-ups.
No, not really, only some stuff to tide you over until Canon fixes it, and a lot of patience. :D

Once it is fixed, it will work as it is supposed to, but it looks like it may need more than 1 trip to get fixed properly, occasionally.

Kind regards, Wim

[SilverOnemi]

Well, maybe the 40D's AF wasn't limited deliberately

Yeah true on that... sry if i misunderstood what i ment to say .

[JeffreyG]

The better example of Canon crippling a product is the dRebel (300D). With a software hack the camera can pick up several features of the 10D.

Anytime a product has reduced performance just due to software settings I would agree that it was crippled for marketing reasons. If the difference is mechanical, then it probably relates to cost.

So is the 5D crippled? I'm not sure. It depends if the mirror assembly in that camera could really support a faster frame rate. The long blackout time of the 5D suggests to me that the frame rate limit is mechanical.

40D crippled? It has the best performing 9 point AF system Canon makes. I can't state that such a system can be as good as the 1D style AF without using the 1D system....which presumably costs more to make.

[EcoRick]

Discarding some of the more controversial comments, I did notice the lack of Canon products while I was watching the Olympics myself. I'm so accustomed to seeing white lenses that the black and white array caught me by surprise. I must admit it made me think twice about the Nikon products. Do not get me wrong, I'm not thinking of changing as I'm clearly not a pro and this is strictly a hobby for me. But if the pros are changing gear, Nikon must have introduced some great product. I'm sure that Canon will respond, but the ad that Canon has used in the past to display all the white lenses at sporting events may be backfiring a bit.

[digadv]

Discarding some of the more controversial comments, I did notice the lack of Canon products while I was watching the Olympics myself. I'm so accustomed to seeing white lenses that the black and white array caught me by surprise. I must admit it made me think twice about the Nikon products. Do not get me wrong, I'm not thinking of changing as I'm clearly not a pro and this is strictly a hobby for me. But if the pros are changing gear, Nikon must have introduced some great product. I'm sure that Canon will respond, but the ad the Canon has used in the past to display all the white lenses at sporting events may be backfiring a bit.

Not sure what event you were watching, but some of the events I've seen have the photog box stuff with large white lenses.

[kenyc]

The better example of Canon crippling a product is the dRebel (300D). With a software hack the camera can pick up several features of the 10D.

Anytime a product has reduced performance just due to software settings I would agree that it was crippled for marketing reasons. If the difference is mechanical, then it probably relates to cost.

So is the 5D crippled? I'm not sure. It depends if the mirror assembly in that camera could really support a faster frame rate. The long blackout time of the 5D suggests to me that the frame rate limit is mechanical.

40D crippled? It has the best performing 9 point AF system Canon makes. I can't state that such a system can be as good as the 1D style AF without using the 1D system....which presumably costs more to make.

I wouldn't necessarily agree that disabling software routines is due to marketing. The world of software development is extremely complex and it almost always makes sense to manage one set of software as opposed to multiple versions. It may be nothing more than that.

[ipschoser1]

The author's comments on the 40D ARE NOT consistent with my experiences with the camera. I can understand the frustration with the 1DmkIII situation, and Nikon has some nice cameras out, but most of this frenzy is just a case of the king of the hill (Canon) getting all the attention.

I love my Canon gear. It's as good as it ever was. The new Nikons have raised the bar. Expect Canon to blow them out of the water soon... ;)

[cyrn]

While there were some obvious issues with the 1Dm3... I'm also concern about the variances on Canon's manufacturing processes, especially their L lenses.

I've already know of quite a few real examples of their "L" lens that are simply below par. Anyone have similar experiences with their "L"s?

[tunin]

I can't open this site!? Anyone else having the same problem? Thx.

[kenyc]

Don't really want to get into Canon bashing, but with my first 100-400L after a week of use found a metal shaving stuck to the inside of the front element and exchanged it. All my other Canon lenses have been excellent!

[Wilt]

'crippled product'...yeah, merely the same practice employ in countless other products on the market, too, to permit offering lower tier products at lower prices. What is wrong with that?!

[blonde]

What an unmitigated idiot (the author .. not the photographer with the car...although that ranks right up there too...)

"Canon has been known to intentionally cripple products for marketing purposes. Just look at the 40D and 5D..."

You gotta be kidding me... :rolleyes:


why is he in idiot? i agree with him 100% so i guess i am an idiot too...

[blonde]

lol says the 1dsmkIII has same focus issues as the 1d? wtf??


what do you mean WTF? that has been known for quite some time now and it actually makes perfect sense considering the FACT that the 2 cameras share the same AF.

[ed rader]

Discarding some of the more controversial comments, I did notice the lack of Canon products while I was watching the Olympics myself. I'm so accustomed to seeing white lenses that the black and white array caught me by surprise. I must admit it made me think twice about the Nikon products. Do not get me wrong, I'm not thinking of changing as I'm clearly not a pro and this is strictly a hobby for me. But if the pros are changing gear, Nikon must have introduced some great product. I'm sure that Canon will respond, but the ad that Canon has used in the past to display all the white lenses at sporting events may be backfiring a bit.


http://www.caborian.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/canikon.jpg

ed rader

[Wilt]

Discarding some of the more controversial comments, I did notice the lack of Canon products while I was watching the Olympics myself. I'm so accustomed to seeing white lenses that the black and white array caught me by surprise. I must admit it made me think twice about the Nikon products. Do not get me wrong, I'm not thinking of changing as I'm clearly not a pro and this is strictly a hobby for me. But if the pros are changing gear, Nikon must have introduced some great product. I'm sure that Canon will respond, but the ad that Canon has used in the past to display all the white lenses at sporting events may be backfiring a bit.

There is also the fact that Nikon had been dominant in the past, for photojournalism and corporate equipment and even for individual studios. So if Nikon finally comes out with a FF digital, there is tons of equipment that had been sitting on shelves that gets resurrected.

[kenyc]

http://www.caborian.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/canikon.jpg

ed rader


:) they all even got the same uniform on. :)

[Master-9]

http://www.caborian.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/canikon.jpg

ed rader

38 canon 40 nikon:lol:

[ed rader]

38 canon 40 nikon:lol:


parity. if you are a capitalist that's what you want to see :D.

ed rader

[jacobsen1]

I've also noticed the comeback of Nikons at the olympics. Especially at the swimming venue. I'd also be willing to be it's because of the AF more than the high ISO performance because it's been proven that the nikon is just running more noise reduction in camera and losing details for it. Not that it isn't impressive to use 6400 and 12800, but there is less detail there.

But if you're shooting events at the olympics of people breaking records, which would you choose:
possibly less details but focus NAILED
-or-
maybe more details and maybe in focus

Also realize that half the events are outside where it's then just a focusing issue. Oh, and the nikon has more MP than the canon (for magazine covers this matters). So unless they're going for a 1Ds (which still has the AF issues) the D3 provides more MP and better focus. Is it really a surprise pro sports shooters are picking it? And for the ISO performance, for me, I'd end up with the same noise/detail ration eventually anyway. The Nikon just does it in camera where the canon needs NN afterwards. Yes, this lets me control it over the processor in the camera, but if we arrive at the same solution and Nikon's version is easier what's wrong with that? I also feels it's a good think nikon is pushing canon. We'll eventually get better cameras from Canon as well as some other parties because of this.

That said my 5D does what I need wonderfully. But if I was a pro shooter, I'd be very tempted by the D3. Canon needs to step it up with the 5D replacement and they really need to get a 1DmIII 'N' out ASAP that fixes all these issues (how about going back to the 1DmII AF?)... I can see them doing the blue dot deal once, but once that was found to not be working what the hell were they thinking? Go back to the old AF that worked and go back to the drawing board with your "awesome, groundbreaking" new version. Groundbreaking?

<-- someone who's not a fanboi and knows nikon pushing the limits is a GREAT thing for anyone who uses DSLRs.

[ed rader]

I've also noticed the comeback of Nikons at the olympics. Especially at the swimming venue. I'd also be willing to be it's because of the AF more than the high ISO performance because it's been proven that the nikon is just running more noise reduction in camera and losing details for it. Not that it isn't impressive to use 6400 and 12800, but there is less detail there.

But if you're shooting events at the olympics of people breaking records, which would you choose:
possibly less details but focus NAILED
-or-
maybe more details and maybe in focus

Also realize that half the events are outside where it's then just a focusing issue. Oh, and the nikon has more MP than the canon (for magazine covers this matters). So unless they're going for a 1Ds (which still has the AF issues) the D3 provides more MP and better focus. Is it really a surprise pro sports shooters are picking it? And for the ISO performance, for me, I'd end up with the same noise/detail ration eventually anyway. The Nikon just does it in camera where the canon needs NN afterwards. Yes, this lets me control it over the processor in the camera, but if we arrive at the same solution and Nikon's version is easier what's wrong with that? I also feels it's a good think nikon is pushing canon. We'll eventually get better cameras from Canon as well as some other parties because of this.

That said my 5D does what I need wonderfully. But if I was a pro shooter, I'd be very tempted by the D3. Canon needs to step it up with the 5D replacement and they really need to get a 1DmIII 'N' out ASAP that fixes all these issues (how about going back to the 1DmII AF?)... I can see them doing the blue dot deal once, but once that was found to not be working what the hell were they thinking? Go back to the old AF that worked and go back to the drawing board with your "awesome, groundbreaking" new version. Groundbreaking?

<-- someone who's not a fanboi and knows nikon pushing the limits is a GREAT thing for anyone who uses DSLRs.

i wouldn't want a FF camera for sports unless i had someone to carry my lenses :D.

ed rader

[umbra]

38 canon 40 nikon:lol:

Plus the photo itself, according to its exif, was taken with a Canon MKIIn ;)

[SilverOnemi]

There is also the fact that Nikon had been dominant in the past, for photojournalism and corporate equipment and even for individual studios. So if Nikon finally comes out with a FF digital, there is tons of equipment that had been sitting on shelves that gets resurrected.

that doesn't convince me tho... nikon's been launchin new stuff with VR ... quite usefull actually.

and why go back ?

and btw... i do shoot with C.FN II 2 -1 high iso speed noise reduct, unless shooting below iso 800 ... and it has performed quite good so far.

and talkin with absolute no experience... is there much difference from full frame to 1.3 crop ?

[ed rader]

that doesn't convince me tho... nikon's been launchin new stuff with VR ... quite usefull actually.

and why go back ?


i believe nikon has finally caught up to canon and maybe have jumped ahead in some areas.

now it's canon's turn....unless they want to be second fiddle again.

just remember that nikon has a more prestigious name....not by much these days but a majority of consumers think that there is more prestige in owning nikon.

ed rader

[zman]

Yesterday at the Chicago Air & Water Show a guy walked by with 1D camera. The strange thing - the Canon logo and model designations were covered with thick black tape.
Is Canon testing the "N" models?

[SilverOnemi]

i believe nikon has finally caught up to canon and maybe have jumped ahead in some areas.

now it's canon's turn....unless they want to be second fiddle again.

just remember that nikon has a more prestigious name....not by much these days but a majority of consumers think that there is more prestige in owning nikon.

ed rader


hhmmm good point on that...

sometimes i do feel nikon name is quite strong due to the past... i guess since my first camera was a canon.. it's canon all teh way for me ...

this canon vs nikon is very intresting thing to chat about really, but to me, it makes no difernce if canon catches up or not... i mean if it catches up, then great... i'll be havin the best sistem arround... if not, im definitlive not spending my money to go to the dark side, besides, i dont like how nikon cameras are structured. AND since my 40d performed quite good under my instructions, i'm quite happy.

but again i do know if i get a 300 2.8 and shoot wide open pherhaps i'll be in trouble... but i doubt i'll be doing it tomorow so , just fine.

[ed rader]

that doesn't convince me tho... nikon's been launchin new stuff with VR ... quite usefull actually.

and why go back ?

and btw... i do shoot with C.FN II 2 -1 high iso speed noise reduct, unless shooting below iso 800 ... and it has performed quite good so far.

and talkin with absolute no experience... is there much difference from full frame to 1.3 crop ?

in what respect?

i've owned the 5d and 1d mark III. the mark III handles noise better and produces better IQ but it does have a newer sensor.

the one thing that canon has that nikon doesn't is the 1.3 crop sensor which i find to be the best format by far for what i shoot (everything).

with 1.3 crop you don't lose much length over a full cropper but you get FF IQ and FF iso noise handling. for what i do i think the 1d mark III is the very best camera on the market by a longshot.

don't group me with the chronically discontent :D.

ed rader

[picturecrazy]

I'm thrilled with all the bad press. It'll make canon stronger.

Though I haven't experienced any AF problems with mark III series, nor with the 40D. My 1Ds mark III focus accuracy is nothing short of astounding.

[nicksan]

Yep, the proof is in the pudding and except for a few comments here and there, I actually agree 100% with the article. Hopefully articles like this one will light a fire under Canon's arse, but that's highly unlikely. If this segment isn't really making a huge impact on the bottom line, and I imagine it only accounts for a small percentage of their profits, then you can bet your behind they'll just sweep whatever problems they have (example...1DMKIII AI Servo AF, 50L focus shifting to name a few) under the rug. That's how big corporations work.

I noticed lots of black Nikon lenses at a NFL football pratice session as well. That's the trend. As a pro who puts money on the table, why wouldn't you want to go the D3 route? (Well...except as you mentioned the bigger lens part!) Good fps, better ISO performance, etc, etc...

With the flaky AI Servo AF on the MKIII, it's not wonder they are moving on.

I'm, not one of those people, and for what I shoot, the 1DMKIII suits me very well, with the occasional AI-servo shot sprinkled in there.

Canon had a chance to continue its dominance. However, just like many other companies out there, they chose to sit on their success and dominance, and let Nikon catch up. I have a feeling it's Nikon's turn to flip the script on Canon. I think we've entered the dog days for Canon. I am sure in a few years this will flip again.

Not sure if that's good or bad...

http://www.caborian.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/canikon.jpg

ed rader

[SilverOnemi]

in what respect?

i've owned the 5d and 1d mark III. the mark III handles noise better and produces better IQ but it does have a newer sensor.

the one thing that canon has that nikon doesn't is the 1.3 crop sensor which i find to be the best format by far for what i shoot (everything).

with 1.3 crop you don't lose much length over a full cropper but you get FF IQ and FF iso noise handling. for what i do i think the 1d mark III is the very best camera on the market by a longshot.

don't group me with the chronically discontent :D.

ed rader

hehe i thinkk you already awnsered my question... what i ment is when you put a lens on a full frame, the "zoom" you see it it's truly the thing you are seeing, example... when i put my sigma on 10 mm, i know it's actually 16 mm. due to the 1.6 crop

and 1.3 is actually pretty smart since it avoids the lens corners, but is there a diference between let's say a 300 2.8 on a full frame and on a 1.3 crop in terms of "zoom" ?

sry for my bad choice of vocabulary here.

[aIpha]

The author's comments are exaggerated but I think he makes some decent points which should be an eye opener for a lot of people and hopefully for Canon as well. I have no personal experience with the 1DM3 and I can only read about the supposed auto-focus issue but I didn't particularly like the fact that it took Canon so long to recognize and release a fix for their flagship DSLR. It is as if they were afraid to bend to the will of their top customers and I'm not so sure how comforting that is.

I'm pretty heavily invested in Canon gear and somewhat invested in Canon stock because I trust the company to grow and deliver the goods to its consumers and shareholders and keep that balance in check. Whatever Canon releases next is one of the things I will use to gauge whether or not Canon will continue to grow in the markets that they specialize in; it'll show me that Canon is learning from past mistakes and can compete in their own market.

Companies leading in a competitive market for a long time have the ability to lose focus (no pun intended) and forget why they are the leader. The question is whether or not they can get back up on the horse and ride it into the sunset. I guess we'll see in a month or two. :)

[ed rader]

hehe i thinkk you already awnsered my question... what i ment is when you put a lens on a full frame, the "zoom" you see it it's truly the thing you are seeing, example... when i put my sigma on 10 mm, i know it's actually 16 mm. due to the 1.6 crop

and 1.3 is actually pretty smart since it avoids the lens corners, but is there a diference between let's say a 300 2.8 on a full frame and on a 1.3 crop in terms of "zoom" ?

sry for my bad choice of vocabulary here.

a huge difference. a 70-200 on a FF camera is a portrait lens. it's almost worthless for sports.

i've used the 5d heavily for a year and it threw my lens line-up into turmoil. canon has no fast zoom after the 70-200L so i bought the 300L f4 IS which on the 5d approximates 200mm on the 40d. and if you need anything longer you are talking serious weight and huge bucks.

my hat's off the the nikon guys. no way in hell would i want a FF camera for sports :D!

ed rader

[cyrn]

Let's not turn this into C vs N thread...

The intended focus of this thread is that Canon ain't delivering what they promised, be it lens/cams or accessories..etc.

Personally, my experience begins with 10D, which at that time was commonly known to have back-focusing issue.

My next Canon purchase was 17-40L... it was and still is superb.

However, it was followed by 70-200 2.8 L IS, and it have given me problems intermittently since... and Canon can't isolate the cause.

My last Canon buy was 30D, it was ok... until I tried the peripheral AF points... all are totally off.

So in my experience, it's 3 out of 4 manufacturing "defects" and the 70-200 is still unresolved.:(:(

Nearly got the 1D3, lucky it was out of stock and I couldn't get it... here, there's no return policy, so I'd be stuck with a defective "pro-cam" and at Canon's mercy.

[nicksan]

I'm not sure this is true anymore. I think part of the reason for not using the FF offerings from Canon was the lack of speed.

The D3 delivers FF and speed, best of both worlds. I agree about the lenses part, however since most pro sports shooters were using the 1D series with its 1.3x crop, the difference isn't as dramatic as coming from a 1.6x crop body.

You add to that the high ISO capability of the D3(and now the D700) and I think the writing is on the wall...

Plus these guys can afford the bigger lenses.:D

If Nikon decides to put out some nice constant f4 lenses and AF-S primes...watch out!


a huge difference. a 70-200 on a FF camera is a portrait lens. it's almost worthless for sports.

i've used the 5d heavily for a year and it threw my lens line-up into turmoil. canon has no fast zoom after the 70-200L so i bought the 300L f4 IS which on the 5d approximates 200mm on the 40d. and if you need anything longer you are talking serious weight and huge bucks.

my hat's off the the nikon guys. no way in hell would i want a FF camera for sports :D!

ed rader

[S.Horton]

*sigh*

My MKIII is not suffering.

[ed rader]

I'm not sure this is true anymore. I think part of the reason for not using the FF offerings from Canon was the lack of speed.

The D3 delivers FF and speed, best of both worlds. I agree about the lenses part, however since most pro sports shooters were using the 1D series with its 1.3x crop, the difference isn't as dramatic as coming from a 1.6x crop body.

You add to that the high ISO capability of the D3(and now the D700) and I think the writing is on the wall...

Plus these guys can afford the bigger lenses.:D

If Nikon decides to put out some nice constant f4 lenses and AF-S primes...watch out!


with the IQ of the 1d mark III i don't see any advantage to FF. what i see is you need to carry longer, heavier and more expensive lenses which in many cases don't exist :D.

ed rader

[DDCSD]

Yesterday at the Chicago Air & Water Show a guy walked by with 1D camera. The strange thing - the Canon logo and model designations were covered with thick black tape.
Is Canon testing the "N" models?

Nope, probably just this guy:
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?p=6037227#post6037227

[ed rader]

Nope, probably just this guy:
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?p=6037227#post6037227


i met a guy that had tape over all the logos on his 10d. i asked him why and he gave me a long paranoid sounding answer that i never fully understood :D.

ed rader

[Tsmith]

Well I'd say if Canon drops the ball on coming releases, they will surely see sales really start to turn South. Look at how focus issues are discussed just at POTN almost daily.

Way too many Mark III owners are still having problems even after the so called fixes.

Nikon upped the bar with some fine cameras and are posed to gain a big following from FF Landscape photographers with their D700.

[ed rader]

Well I'd say if Canon drops the ball on coming releases, they will surely see sales really start to turn South. Look at how focus issues are discussed just at POTN almost daily.

Way too many Mark III owners are still having problems even after the so called fixes.

Nikon upped the bar with some fine cameras and are posed to gain a big following from FF Landscape photographers with their D700.


yeah it's canon's turn now. the same company that mass produced the first sub-$1k DSLR and set the standard for IQ with the 5d.

i think we need to give nikon a little more credit for "catching up" rather than faulting canon for dropping the ball :D.

ed rader

[kenyc]

Yes, competition fuels the marketplace.

[Fabrian]

Well, I switched - and I'm glad I did. Very glad actually. I think if any of you used a D300/D700/D3 for a week, you'd be reluctant to go back. My D300 in so many ways walks all over any XXD body, which is supposedly the class it's competing in. Most reviews compare the D300 to the MKIII and it hold it's own there too (plus still a better focusing system).

I'm sure you'll all say my XXX body focuses fine. I'll tell you right now you don't know how good and easy focusing can be until you give, say, the D300 a try. I'm still blown away... I shot around 500 images all day yesterday and had zero OOF shots.

Anyway, I used Canon for years and have been here daily for years as well. This still is my favorite forum and I'll always stay here. Fact of the matter is, I've had more quality control issues with Canon than good samples of whatever I've owned. Now, that doesn't mean I've sold funky items. I have a superb contact at Jersey CPS who's always taken care of me. I just became soooo sick and tired of Canon's crap shoot. Once the D300 came around, I took the jump and I have to honestly say I haven't missed one-single-thing Canon. Period.

This post wasn't meant to flame or start nonsense, I'm just not at all surprised to see shooters at the Olympics favoring the Nikon system.

For the record, comparing the two systems, and as far as IQ and focus accuracy, the Nikon gets it without a single doubt.

[silvex]

oh come on, canon does limit the focus of the 40D has Rob Galbraight tested out... if you want that level of focussing performance go get yoursefl a nice 1d.

also, i'd love to have focussing tuning on my 40D with some other functions that aren't in there for "marketing reasons". and what's canon awnser?

go get yoursefl a 1d3.

btw what the article ment with the 5D is the FPS... that's very slow, canon always wanted a full sensor out of the high fps zones.

I was shooting surfing at the US Open of Surfing 2008 and saw a lot of photogs with...40Ds and 30Ds...:) I probably had a 90%-95% hit ratio of images and only one that the 40D freak out on me.

Tracking down a subject running towards you it it not a as hard a tracking down one.That is a surfer moving toward, but moving on horizontal axis, vertical axis and the Z aixs (toward you). Plus the subject has a "moving wall" behind him/her.

Some of the photogs capturing good snaps were using TRIPODS (me) not monopods on sand. There were a couple of them around me...and they were asking me about my "trick"...I pointed to the tripod and gimbal head...:)

[silvex]

http://www.caborian.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/canikon.jpg

ed rader


And some of those could be canon bodies WITH sigmas...:) 800, 150-500, 200-800 ...:)

[JWright]

I, for one, am sick and tired with all the Canon bashing. It's beginning to sound like a broken record. My advice to these people is that if you think you can get better results with Nikon then just shut up and switch...

[Fabrian]

I, for one, am sick and tired with all the Canon bashing. It's beginning to sound like a broken record. My advice to these people is that if you think you can get better results with Nikon then just shuat up and switch...

I did. FTR, when Canon cleans up their QC act (that's IMO btw) and offers a better feature set in body, and in the prosumer price range, I'd consider coming back eh, maybe. Come to think of it, Na.... ;)

[blonde]

I, for one, am sick and tired with all the Canon bashing. It's beginning to sound like a broken record. My advice to these people is that if you think you can get better results with Nikon then just shuat up and switch...

i, for one, am sick and tired with all the Canon defending. it's beginning to sound like a broken record. my advice to these people is that if you think that Canon is perfect and can do no wrong then just shuat up and keep using it... :)

[tmonatr]

Of course Canon has intentionally crippled its DSLR's. It made you buy up for certain features. But with Nikon's new "Make it all it can be" attitude, they will have to step up. I for one am glad to see the article and the competition.
If you didn't link to the article, you missed some of THESE (http://www.stern.de/olympia2008/fotostrecken/:Fotostrecke-Die-Bilder-Spiele/634192.html?cp=1)awesome Olympics shots!

[Tsmith]

I, for one, am sick and tired with all the Canon bashing. It's beginning to sound like a broken record. My advice to these people is that if you think you can get better results with Nikon then just shuat up and switch...

i, for one, am sick and tired with all the Canon defending. it's beginning to sound like a broken record. my advice to these people is that if you think that Canon is perfect and can do no wrong then just shuat up and keep using it... :)

LOL _ that was pretty good ... :lol:

[kenyc]

i, for one, am sick and tired with all the Canon defending. it's beginning to sound like a broken record. my advice to these people is that if you think that Canon is perfect and can do no wrong then just shuat up and keep using it... :)


+1

I already got in trouble for saying that once today, so I'm glad you did Snir! :)

[aIpha]

Nothing wrong with a little (or a lot) of constructive criticism. I think we all know what Canon can do; it's just the matter of Canon getting it done without trying to cut too many corners which I think has been the case for the past two years.

[DDCSD]

My D300 in so many ways walks all over any XXD body, which is supposedly the class it's competing in.

You make some fine points, but the 40D is not a direct competitor to the D300. the fact is that Canon does not have a direct competitor to the D300. You cannot compare something that is nearly double the price of something else. That is like saying that the Canon 40D walks all over the Nikon D40. I would certainly hope it would for almost twice the money.

There are few levels that Canon and Nikon are actually direct competitors. They seem to be going after different levels of consumers. Nikon's "entry level" is lower than Canon's. They then jump from the $725 D80 to the $1625 D300. From there they go to the $3000 D700 up to the $4500 D3.

The fact that the D3 seems to trump the MkIII in most areas is a fair comparison, since the D3 is only a touch over 10% more than the MkIII.

[form]

The 40D...IS the most direct competitor to the D300 that Canon makes, and it is in fact pretty direct because they tend to be used for many of the same purposes (weddings, upper-level hobbyist jobs, amateur to semi-pro sports) because of their faster bursts, good buffers, good AF, and medium size.

I think any spam or hate commentary like the OP's link is the result of lots of ill feeling looming over Canon's present products when compared to Nikon. A lot of Canon users are either quietly or passively disgruntled about their equipment not being on the same level as Canon's main competitor, Nikon. Those commentaries are eruptions, signs of the bigger truth.

I also notice that since the 30D vs. D200 competition, Canon's midrange dSLRs have had "budget version" written on them because their price point was several hundred $$$ less. Same for the 40D vs. D300, and with the release of the D700, the 5D sits in the same relative position. Everyone admits, "Yes, the Nikon is a better camera, but you pay more for it too."

[Wilt]

Too many owners's sense of self esteem seems to be locked up with owing the 'best brand' rather than being content with an excellent tool...if you are never content with 'the latest' life becomes an endless legacy of frequent trade ins to have the latest in technology -- whether or not it is truly needed or not. And so the Canon owners who see Nikon establishing some leadership have the self esteem threatened, and they lash out.

[form]

Imagine being on the slow boat to somewhere, watching the fast boat pass you by. Some people wouldn't care, since they paid a little less for their slower boat, but a lot of others would be dissatisfied with the progress of their slower boat and wish it would go faster. The destination is quality photos in more situations with faster, more reliable and more capable functionality. I'd probably want to be on the faster boat too.

Nikon is telling Canon users that there is something better available currently, and Canon doesn't have it, which feels a bit like a dead end or a sense of impotence.

[DDCSD]

The 40D...IS the most direct competitor to the D300 that Canon makes, and it is in fact pretty direct because they tend to be used for many of the same purposes (weddings, upper-level hobbyist jobs, amateur to semi-pro sports) because of their faster bursts, good buffers, good AF, and medium size.

With that logic, the Cadillac DTS (http://autos.yahoo.com/cadillac_dts/) and the Ford Taurus (http://autos.yahoo.com/ford_taurus/) are direct competitors, since they both tend to be used for many of the same purposes (getting from point A to point B), are both sedans, have almost identical horsepower, the same number of doors and automatic transmissions.

Believe it or not, price is what determines what is and is not a direct competitor, not what a manufacturer's product line is comprised of.

[Wilt]

The oddity of the situation is that really Canon was #2 for decades, before they finally started to pass Nikon with the intro of the EOS line. And now Nikon, has climbed back and finally re-established some technical strength. Merely playing leapfrog, but people are behaving as if it was the 100m freestle.

[kenyc]

With that kind of logic Sony is the MIchael Phelps of sensors. :)

[Fabrian]

With that logic, the Cadillac DTS (http://autos.yahoo.com/cadillac_dts/) and the Ford Taurus (http://autos.yahoo.com/ford_taurus/) are direct competitors, since they both tend to be used for many of the same purposes (getting from point A to point B), are both sedans, have almost identical horsepower, the same number of doors and automatic transmissions.

Believe it or not, price is what determines what is and is not a direct competitor, not what a manufacturer's product line is comprised of.

I think we're nit-picking here with the 40D/D300 comparison. The 40D is the D300's closest competitor. Just because the 40D is only worth ~900 bucks now means nothing to me - it was introduced at what, ~$1200-1300 body only? IIRC, that should be about right. The D300 can be had for 15xx.00. I think the only difference with comparing is the 40D came down and the D300 held it's value. Reminds me of auto resale, ie: GM resale vs Toyota resale. There's a reason for that.

[tmonatr]

I think we're nit-picking here with the 40D/D300 comparison. The 40D is the D300's closest competitor. Just because the 40D is only worth ~900 bucks now means nothing to me - it was introduced at what, ~$1200-1300 body only? IIRC, that should be about right. The D300 can be had for 15xx.00. I think the only difference with comparing is the 40D came down and the D300 held it's value. Reminds me of auto resale, ie: GM resale vs Toyota resale. There's a reason for that.
Exactly. I know I got into the DSLR game a couple of years when it was 30D vs D200. I chose 30D and believe I chose correctly. If I were getting in the game today, I would think real hard about choosing differently. Canon had to make the $ differential between the 40D and the D300 big enough so it was the deciding factor, hence the price drop. With only $300-$400 between them, that gap is small enough that many would jump it for the superior body.

[theflyingkiwi]

regardless if the 40D and the D300 are a direct competitor or not really isn't the point. the person that is looking for a digital SLR camera for the first time will see that they are in fact very close and the average person will think they are.

This makes them, even by proxy, a direct competitor.

When Nikon bring out things like a fake horizon and other little features then why on earth can't Canon. After all that little software feature will stop me from buying some of the little things. Why can't the 40D use a wireless remote for releasing the shutter. Hell even the cheaper versions have this ???

so yea it's a simple fact that canon is falling behind, by how much I have no idea. But their market share is getting smaller.

[digadv]

i, for one, am sick and tired with all the Canon defending. it's beginning to sound like a broken record. my advice to these people is that if you think that Canon is perfect and can do no wrong then just shuat up and keep using it... :)

Be careful folks. A lot of these Canon bashing threads are started by wayward Nikon owners that don't have a decent forum of their own. We should have some sort of authorization of this forum that you are actually a Canon owner.

[blonde]

Be careful folks. A lot of these Canon bashing threads are started by wayward Nikon owners that don't have a decent forum of their own. We should have some sort of authorization of this forum that you are actually a Canon owner.

why would i need your authorization? who are you? and yes, i am a proud Nikon owner, is that a problem? :rolleyes:

[Permagrin]

why would i need your authorization? who are you? and yes, i am a proud Nikon owner, is that a problem? :rolleyes:

Snir! Really? cool :mrgreen: Which one?

[DocFrankenstein]

What an unmitigated idiot (the author .. not the photographer with the car...although that ranks right up there too...)

"Canon has been known to intentionally cripple products for marketing purposes. Just look at the 40D and 5D..."

You gotta be kidding me... :rolleyes:
Count me in as an unmitigated idiot then.
Canon does cripple their products for more profits.

BTT: It warms my heart to see this because I sold my canon system just in time. Now a lot of people are dumping it.

Canon - never again. A lot of their products are... bad and crippled.

[Rimwalker]

I can understand the frustrations of professionals who want nothing but the best (although the shooters at my paper have never complained about the 1D mkIII), but this seems like a good thing for those of us not yet paying top dollar for cameras.

I Know I'm new around here, so take my opinion for what you want, but it seems like with Nikon upping the level so much, it seems to me people like me will have some amazing choices from Canon when we're ready to upgrade.

What's clear is Canon does have to bring it in a big way with the 5D mkII (or whatever its called), the 50D, and the 1D. The 1Ds won't even stand head and shoulders above the rest when the D3x comes out.

So for those able to wait and see what Canon does, this isn't a bad thing. For those of you who can't wait and who's Canon cameras truly aren't good enough for what your doing, I feel bad for you, honestly.

[theflyingkiwi]

why would i need your authorization? who are you? and yes, i am a proud Nikon owner, is that a problem? :rolleyes:

that's never a problem. We welcome both here. ;)

[SOT]

Yesterday at the Chicago Air & Water Show a guy walked by with 1D camera. The strange thing - the Canon logo and model designations were covered with thick black tape.
Is Canon testing the "N" models?

I know lots of guys that tape their equipment so you don't see the logos. It ranges from "I don't want to advertise for a company if they are not paying me." to "I don't want the fanboi's stalking me and talking gear." to the paranoid, "People will target me and try and steal my equipment."
There is also a very small contingent that want you to think they have something they don't, but most of those guys are nuts."

[bacchanal]

All this talk is crazy.

Nikon has been asleep at the wheel for a decade and they finally start making some decent product and it's like the second coming of Christ.

Maybe they can now start looking at their neglected lens lineup.

Let's take bets. What will happen first? Nikon updates/fills out their normal to wide primes or Canon fixes it's AF?

[DocFrankenstein]

All this talk is crazy.

Nikon has been asleep at the wheel for a decade and they finally start making some decent product and it's like the second coming of Christ.

Maybe they can now start looking at their neglected lens lineup.

Let's take bets. What will happen first? Nikon updates/fills out their normal to wide primes or Canon fixes it's AF?
If you look at nikon/canon history, canon is always the one to throw half-baked, feature rich products on the market. Sure, it's "innovation" but they work worse than nikon's.

And you can use all the glass nikon has ever made... I pity the one who thinks that lineup isn't enough for any kind of shooting.

Also, nikon has all the formulas for awesome glass - all they need is to put motors and start production.

[SOT]

For the record there are a couple things people are missing abount "black lenses".

Black doesn't mean Nikon, black just means not a large Canon lens. It doesn't mean that the body isn't Canon.
Also understand that in China there are TONS of ripoff glass, that will not be "white bodies"
I went to an arms conference and there was a copany HiOptic that is an OEM, they had a bunch of camera lenses that for every intent and purpose were Canon L series lenses save they were made by them and a good bit of a knock off.
The guy saw my Canon and basically said he could sell me 3-4 lenses for the price of my one and they were "just like canon".
So when I see a lot of black lenses in China I just wonder how many are "knock off" lenses.

[blonde]

that's never a problem. We welcome both here. ;)

i know that which is why this place is so great. what i don't like is all that "if you own Nikon why are you here?" and "if you like Nikon so much, why don't you go to their forum" crap. it is alright to own and use Canon while still being critical of their offering or express dissatisfaction with their latest offerings.

[blonde]

For the record there are a couple things people are missing abount "black lenses".

Black doesn't mean Nikon, black just means not a large Canon lens. It doesn't mean that the body isn't Canon.
Also understand that in China there are TONS of ripoff glass, that will not be "white bodies"
I went to an arms conference and there was a copany HiOptic that is an OEM, they had a bunch of camera lenses that for every intent and purpose were Canon L series lenses save they were made by them and a good bit of a knock off.
The guy saw my Canon and basically said he could sell me 3-4 lenses for the price of my one and they were "just like canon".
So when I see a lot of black lenses in China I just wonder how many are "knock off" lenses.

i hope that you are joking. do you honestly think that ANY photographer that shoots the Olympics would use a ripoff lens? these photographers go out with the best gear money can buy. i am willing to bet you that all black lenses other than maybe 1-2% are Nikon and you can clearly see that in the images.

[DocFrankenstein]

For the record there are a couple things people are missing abount "black lenses".

Black doesn't mean Nikon, black just means not a large Canon lens. It doesn't mean that the body isn't Canon.
Also understand that in China there are TONS of ripoff glass, that will not be "white bodies"
I went to an arms conference and there was a copany HiOptic that is an OEM, they had a bunch of camera lenses that for every intent and purpose were Canon L series lenses save they were made by them and a good bit of a knock off.
The guy saw my Canon and basically said he could sell me 3-4 lenses for the price of my one and they were "just like canon".
So when I see a lot of black lenses in China I just wonder how many are "knock off" lenses.
Oh please. The broadcasting company's journalists who shoot over the world dumped their brand cameras and got themselves optimexes, right?

And for the Russian olympics, everybody will buy themselves a nice big russian lens?

Ridiculous!

[SOT]

I have Nikon and Canon, I like Canon better and have more of it. I like the D3 Well enough, it is a good "pap" camera and for the price of the D3 you can get a good bit of glass compared to the price of the 1Ds MK III.

And I am ABSOLUTELY serious about the glass. about 1/5 of all the "journalists" issued passes at the Olympics were for Chinese publications and "China sports school" magazines. They are as much a professional photo journalist as some little kid running around with a Polaroid camera.

[kenyc]

i know that which is why this place is so great. what i don't like is all that "if you own Nikon why are you here?" and "if you like Nikon so much, why don't you go to their forum" crap. it is alright to own and use Canon while still being critical of their offering or express dissatisfaction with their latest offerings.


Exactly! I even upgraded to the 1Ds MkIII after having major issues with a 1D MkIII but that doesn't mean I wouldn't have sent the thing packing if it didn't perform.

[bacchanal]

If you look at nikon/canon history, canon is always the one to throw half-baked, feature rich products on the market. Sure, it's "innovation" but they work worse than nikon's.

And you can use all the glass nikon has ever made... I pity the one who thinks that lineup isn't enough for any kind of shooting.

Also, nikon has all the formulas for awesome glass - all they need is to put motors and start production.

Wait...a few months ago Nikon offered nothing for low light/high iso photography, and they are still lacking in fast lenses. Nikon's mature refined product was garbage in low light. They had a change of policy and now they are truly relevant for the first time in the digital age.

I actually like the fact that Canon attempts to update their products once every decade or so.

If I thought it would benefit me to switch, I would, but for the price of a D700 and a 24-70, I have a 5D, 30D, 35L, 85 1.8 and a 135L. I guess I'll just have to settle.

[FlyingPhotog]

Count me in as an unmitigated idiot then.
Canon does cripple their products for more profits.

BTT: It warms my heart to see this because I sold my canon system just in time. Now a lot of people are dumping it.

Canon - never again. A lot of their products are... bad and crippled.

Ok, How so... I'm always willing to learn new things.

[aIpha]

So when I see a lot of black lenses in China I just wonder how many are "knock off" lenses.

Just because the venue is in a certain location doesn't mean the photographers will use equipment that you can buy in the back alleys or black market there. The Olympics is a sporting venue for the entire world; I don't think any press is going to be sending a photographer to the Olympics with "knock off" equipment. That would be just... blah. :)

[gjl711]

...What will happen first? Nikon updates/fills out their normal to wide primes or Canon fixes it's AF? I sure hope is Canon fixing the AF problem. My 40D and 100-400 is headed back to Canon for the third time, this time together. I am very frustrated with my 40D. It does great on static subjects but still has a problem in AI Servo. Two days at the beach and not a single usable image of a bird in flight.

[SOT]

Evidently none have you have been to China ever, for any major event? As stated the "press pit" isn't chock full of all professional photographers of all equal caliber as many seem to think. Certainly there are dozens upon dozens of international photojournalists but there are a good number of "local" gov't "journalists" there for trade and "sports schools" publications. I guess since they get paid to take photos, they are "pros" but not in the sense I think of a Getty Pro or AP Pro or the like.
The old school propaganda engine still runs supreme in China.

[DocFrankenstein]

Evidently none have you have been to China ever, for any major event? As stated the "press pit" isn't chock full of all professional photographers of all equal caliber as many seem to think. Certainly there are dozens upon dozens of international photojournalists but there are a good number of "local" gov't "journalists" there for trade and "sports schools" publications. I guess since they get paid to take photos, they are "pros" but not in the sense I think of a Getty Pro or AP Pro or the like.
The old school propaganda engine still runs supreme in China.
And your point?

[DDCSD]

I think we're nit-picking here with the 40D/D300 comparison. The 40D is the D300's closest competitor. Just because the 40D is only worth ~900 bucks now means nothing to me - it was introduced at what, ~$1200-1300 body only? IIRC, that should be about right. The D300 can be had for 15xx.00. I think the only difference with comparing is the 40D came down and the D300 held it's value. Reminds me of auto resale, ie: GM resale vs Toyota resale. There's a reason for that.

It's not really nit-picking to point out that Canon does not make a camera that is comparable to the D300. They just don't. Nikon doesn't currently make anything that compares the the 1DsMkIII. I guess you could say that the D3 is Nikon's closest competitor to the 1DsMkIII, but it is ludicrous to compare them.

Realistically, the two year old D80 is the 40D's closest competitor. There is a 20% difference in price between those two, while there is an almost 70% difference in price in the 40D and D300.

The D300 has been out for 6 months, the 40D has been out for a year now. Sorry you just can't compare the resale value of electronic gear that was released a year apart.

Now if your complaint is that Canon doesn't make anything like the D300, then that is fine, but compare apples to apples. Canon seems to have concentrated on the lower/middle end and high end while seemingly ignoring the middle/high end of the camera world, which Nikon has filled with its Dxxx line. With as good of a camera as the D300 is and as well as it seems it is selling, it looks as if Canon missed the ball there. Nikon is mostly ignoring the entry/mid level market, with the exception of the D60, which is by most accounts almost identical to the D40, with some more MP's and a few minor options.

[DocFrankenstein]

Wait...a few months ago Nikon offered nothing for low light/high iso photography, and they are still lacking in fast lenses. Nikon's mature refined product was garbage in low light. They had a change of policy and now they are truly relevant for the first time in the digital age.

I actually like the fact that Canon attempts to update their products once every decade or so.

If I thought it would benefit me to switch, I would, but for the price of a D700 and a 24-70, I have a 5D, 30D, 35L, 85 1.8 and a 135L. I guess I'll just have to settle.
You and I have different priorities. High ISO doesn't matter to me.

Forgetting image quality, I believe the cameras from nikon are better.

[JeffreyG]

There has been a lot of hyperventilating in this thread. The silly part is that Nikon was miles behind for years. D100, D200 noise issues simply could not compare to the Canon 20D and 30D and Nikon had no FF bodies at all.

Now less than a year after Nikon releases the really excellent D300 (and just a few months after the awesome D700) and people are having the vapors.

I can certainly wait and see what Canon does through one more release cycle. If the 5D gets reworked and competes with the D700 this summer then great. The 40D is due to be replaced next February.

[SOT]

And your point?
1. That just because the lens isn't white don't mean the body isn't canon.
2. That there are plenty of "knock off" lenses and Chinese OEM lenses in the Olympics used by "Chinese national photographers".
Very simple stuff.

[yogestee]

Too many owners's sense of self esteem seems to be locked up with owing the 'best brand' rather than being content with an excellent tool...if you are never content with 'the latest' life becomes an endless legacy of frequent trade ins to have the latest in technology -- whether or not it is truly needed or not. And so the Canon owners who see Nikon establishing some leadership have the self esteem threatened, and they lash out.

Well spoken Wilt..

[digadv]

i know that which is why this place is so great. what i don't like is all that "if you own Nikon why are you here?" and "if you like Nikon so much, why don't you go to their forum" crap. it is alright to own and use Canon while still being critical of their offering or express dissatisfaction with their latest offerings.

I think we can all agree that both manufacturers have their faults. Maybe we should start a Nikon section of the forum. I think we would also agree that competition is good and pushes the other manufacturers to stay on their toes.

Anyone that is on the bleeding edge of technology has to be willing to put up with issues. A good fried of mine bought the D300 and it had significant exposure problems - had to send it back. The Iphone is dropping calls and many users are upset. I've had many first generation technology products that have had numerous technical issues.

For those new users that read this dribble, you should probably purchase something that has been in production at least a year so that the bugs have been worked out.

[aIpha]

1. That just because the lens isn't white don't mean the body isn't canon.
This is understandable: third-party lenses. Are you saying third-party lenses like Sigma and Tamron lenses are "knock off" lenses?

2. That there are plenty of "knock off" lenses and Chinese OEM lenses in the Olympics used by "Chinese national photographers".
I don't think the host country has full control on who gets the press passes; I think this is done by the International Olympic Committee as is everything else for the Olympics and I would assume that they have a pretty strict criteria on who gets a press pass seeing as how the area for photographers is limited for every event.

And lastly, taking a look at the photo of photographers at the Olympics from the blog of the OP; the majority of them seem to be caucasian with black lenses. :cool:

[DocFrankenstein]

Anyone that is on the bleeding edge of technology has to be willing to put up with issues.
No. Photography is not a bleeding edge technology. It's a stable market with very little technological innovation. All of the lenses are there, the autofocus systems are there.

Just introducing a bayer sensor with an AA filter doesn't make a breakthrough product and there's not much comlicated in it, it should work out of the box.

[DDCSD]

No. Photography is not a bleeding edge technology. It's a stable market with very little technological innovation. All of the lenses are there, the autofocus systems are there.

Just introducing a bayer sensor with an AA filter doesn't make a breakthrough product and there's not much comlicated in it, it should work out of the box.

Then what makes the D3 that much better than the D2 and the D300 better than the D200?

[CyberDyneSystems]

Go Nikon?

It's getting very close to that point now.

In the midst of my own issues with Canon customer service, I finally opted to let canon know who it was that was asking for service on his MkIII
For many reason, many, I had for th last 13 months kept that to myself and let Canon deal with me as they would any one.

Last week Canon forced my hand and that came to a head.

I am now back in the trenches on this whole MkIII issue, and oddly, the company that I have essentially worked for free of charge for the last 6 years is on the other side of the front line.

What pushed me over the edge was after 13 months back and forth. last week Canon's senior CITS sent me an E-mail re: my claim on the MkIII telling me that the issue was mine and not the cameras.

Canon has had to admit to me three times in the past via repairs, adjustments, and recalls that the problem lies in the camera and not in the user and yet after all this they are still playing the same tune.

I've called them on this accusation, and done so while letting them know exactly who it is they have been diddling with.

The response was less than appropriate. Childish in fact.

For me, falling behind in tech is not a problem. Last week I was more than happy to say I'd never switch. I don't need the best, but I do need capable.
However, the MkIII I own is not capable, and the customer support, oh the customer support... that is the issue.
There is a time when a company MUST do the right thing for their loyal customers.. Canon USA seems to have missed the memo there.

[Rimwalker]

Forgetting image quality, I believe the cameras from nikon are better.

I'm new here, so please explain this for my benefit, isn't the whole point of a camera to make an image? If you can take a good picture, what else is there?

[Fabrian]

I'm new here, so please explain this for my benefit, isn't the whole point of a camera to make an image? If you can take a good picture, what else is there?


Ahh... Well, to be short - It's how the camera let's you take the picture, and then how that camera company handles things when you have an issue....

[DocFrankenstein]

I'm new here, so please explain this for my benefit, isn't the whole point of a camera to make an image? If you can take a good picture, what else is there?
He's talking about camera's performace at ISO800+. At those ISOs, the canon was slightly ahead for the last 4 years or so.

There's hardly any difference at ISO 100-400 between canon and nikon, where I shoot most of my pictures.

And if the canon's camera can't focus accurately in low light and the nikon can, then I get an out of focus picture with less noise from canon - that's garbage.

From nikon I'll get an in focus shot.

Personally, I shoot at ISO 100-400 90% of the time, so the whole "canon is better at 1600" is a moot point for me.

[digadv]

No. Photography is not a bleeding edge technology. It's a stable market with very little technological innovation. All of the lenses are there, the autofocus systems are there.

Just introducing a bayer sensor with an AA filter doesn't make a breakthrough product and there's not much comlicated in it, it should work out of the box.

If you believe this then nothing I can say will change your mind. Do you honestly believe that Sony would enter a mature, low tech market by buying Minolta?

[DocFrankenstein]

If you believe this then nothing I can say will change your mind.
Oh, If that's what you're doing, you shouldn't even bother.

Do you honestly believe that Sony would enter a mature, low tech market by buying Minolta?
And how's sony doing?
Have you seen any alphas at the olympics?

And if you read my posts carefully, you'd see that I stressed that sensor technology (which is sony's specialty) is not part of camera business.

[digadv]

And how's sony doing?
Have you seen any alphas at the olympics?

You missed the point completely. My question was do you think Sony would "enter" a mature, low tech market? They've poured millions into this game and will continue to do the same in the future. There is a lot at stake in digital photography.

[blonde]

Go Nikon?

It's getting very close to that point now.

In the midst of my own issues with Canon customer service, I finally opted to let canon know who it was that was asking for service on his MkIII
For many reason, many, I had for th last 13 months kept that to myself and let Canon deal with me as they would any one.

Last week Canon forced my hand and that came to a head.

I am now back in the trenches on this whole MkIII issue, and oddly, the company that I have essentially worked for free of charge for the last 6 years is on the other side of the front line.

What pushed me over the edge was after 13 months back and forth. last week Canon's senior CITS sent me an E-mail re: my claim on the MkIII telling me that the issue was mine and not the cameras.

Canon has had to admit to me three times in the past via repairs, adjustments, and recalls that the problem lies in the camera and not in the user and yet after all this they are still playing the same tune.

I've called them on this accusation, and done so while letting them know exactly who it is they have been diddling with.

The response was less than appropriate. Childish in fact.

For me, falling behind in tech is not a problem. Last week I was more than happy to say I'd never switch. I don't need the best, but I do need capable.
However, the MkIII I own is not capable, and the customer support, oh the customer support... that is the issue.
There is a time when a company MUST do the right thing for their loyal customers.. Canon USA seems to have missed the memo there.

again Jake, i am sorry to hear about your problems with Canon. i can tell you that i used the D700 the other day and it is a FINE camera. i also used the D3 and i can honestly say that it is the best body that i have ever used. now if only Nikon would get real with their super tele's pricing.... ;)

[DocFrankenstein]

You missed the point completely. My question was do you think Sony would "enter" a mature, low tech market? They've poured millions into this game and will continue to do the same in the future. There is a lot at stake in digital photography.
They make sensors. They'll be able to bypass nikon and make more profits for themselves.

Your point doesn't apply. It's silly.

It's like cars - companies are getting bought out all the time and the market is saturated. They also invest millions of dollars into each other. But some companies like ford sometimes make really crappy cars which are unfit for intended use and fail catastrophically. Others are making nice cars.

[CyberDyneSystems]

again Jake, i am sorry to hear about your problems with Canon. i can tell you that i used the D700 the other day and it is a FINE camera. i also used the D3 and i can honestly say that it is the best body that i have ever used. now if only Nikon would get real with their super tele's pricing.... ;)

Which begs the question...

What happens when the Admin and most Sr. Moderator of the worlds largest Canon only forum switches to Nikon?

What happens when the individual who's name is on all the FAQs that every new Canon EOS user finds the first time they have a question and resort to google, is recomending that they NOT buy Canon?

[Permagrin]

Which begs the question...

What happens when the Admin and most Sr. Moderator of the worlds largest Canon only forum switches to Nikon?

What happens when the individual who's name is on all the FAQs that every new Canon EOS user finds the first time they have a question and resort to google, is recomending that they NOT buy Canon?

Armageddon? :lol:

(canon had better listen...)

[kenyc]

Which begs the question...

What happens when the Admin and most Sr. Moderator of the worlds largest Canon only forum switches to Nikon?

What happens when the individual who's name is on all the FAQs that every new Canon EOS user finds the first time they have a question and resort to google, is recomending that they NOT buy Canon?

:eek:

I think they better take care of you, but even beyond that they need to take care of themselves and re-learn how to treat their customers. (and certainly Canon is not alone as the only corporation that needs to do that!).

[Rimwalker]

Which begs the question...

What happens when the Admin and most Sr. Moderator of the worlds largest Canon only forum switches to Nikon?

What happens when the individual who's name is on all the FAQs that every new Canon EOS user finds the first time they have a question and resort to google, is recomending that they NOT buy Canon?

I don't think it would make sense to tell new users to not buy Canon. This discussion seems to be focused on the high end of both Canon and Nikon's lines - not entry level stuff.

I have a Rebel XSI, 10-22, 18-55 is, 50 1.8, and 70-200 F4 L. For the same amount of money, where would I be in Nikon? Not so well off, I'd say.

Like I said before, unless Canon really screws up, by the time people like me are ready to move up to better bodies, this will be a moot point.

[fubarhouse]

What a load of bull. Stupid critics, isn't it amazing how many people actually care what these people say?

[CyberDyneSystems]

I don't think it would make sense to tell new users to not buy Canon. This discussion seems to be focused on the high end of both Canon and Nikon's lines - not entry level stuff.

I have a Rebel XSI, 10-22, 18-55 is, 50 1.8, and 70-200 F4 L. For the same amount of money, where would I be in Nikon? Not so well off, I'd say.

Like I said before, unless Canon really screws up, by the time people like me are ready to move up to better bodies, this will be a moot point.

I'm not looking for a debate, but you have missed my point. My posts are not about the MkIII or any particular body, it's about poor treatment of loyal customers.
To force your clientèle, your customer to suffer through 13 months of back and forth, all still with nothing to show for it, to have no resolution, no offer to make reparations, to continue to only challenge the requests for "Customer Support" to ignore them and to in fact insult them, is not a good sign.

If this is how Canon treats me, how can I possible continue to recommend them to my friends?
The answer is I can't.
Of course I can't

You may have missed the Memo, Canon really has screwed up, and they've lost a very substantial portion of there professional user base as indicated vividly on the sidelines of the Olympics.

However one of your points really is pertinent.
It is VERY important for us and more so for Canon to remember that the 1 series is far from there bread and butter.
The numbers sold and the profit margin has to be very low.
With this in mind, Canon SHOULD understand that like a racing team for Chevy, it's a loss leader. Those White lenses on the sidelines sell product.
So keep those sideline shooters happy, and you sell more camera.
They've been using that image of white lenses on the sidelines as the basis of there advertising for years now.
Just as Chevy will treat there Nascar racers well so they can sell more Monte Carlos, Canon needs to treat there 1 Series owners well too.

Canon can afford to do so, the profit is not in the sale of the 1 camera but in the sales that putting those cameras on the sidelines represents.
If they are angering the sideline shooters so much that they are leaving in droves, this is the important aspect of this whole situation.
They should be treating these customers as loss leaders to preserve there standing. Treating them better to keep them happy.

[Rimwalker]

I'm not looking for a debate, but you have missed my point. My posts are s not about the MkIII or any particular body, it's about poor treatment of loyal customers.
To force your clientèle, your customer to suffer through 13 months of back and forth, all still with nothing to show for it, to have no resolution, no offer to make reparations, to continue to only challenge the requests for "Customer Support" to ignore them and to in fact insult them, is not a good sign.

If this is how Canon treats me, how can I possible continue to recommend them to my friends?
The answer is I cant.

I'm not trying to pick a fight either, and I'm sorry if I came across that way.

And yes, I did miss your point, so I apologize again. I haven't dealt with Canon customer service, so I can't comment on that.

[CyberDyneSystems]

I'm not trying to pick a fight either, and I'm sorry if I came across that way.

And yes, I did miss your point, so I apologize again. I haven't dealt with Canon customer service, so I can't comment on that.

No worries Man, it's looong thread :) ;)

[form]

I get a very strong impression that they don't really care if you're the head of the biggest canon-only forum around. Your pull is comparatively inconsequential to their sales and if you should even close down or convert the forum to a pro-Nikon forum, they wouldn't care.

Large corporations do not feel power from under the hundred-million-dollars crowd except as they might feel slight wisps of air: Small, insignificant, as quickly forgotten as felt.

Most of us are stuck with Canon now that we bought into their products, and I for one don't have the money to just switch to Nikon.

[Tsmith]

Most of us are stuck with Canon now that we bought into their products, and I for one don't have the money to just switch to Nikon.

Neither do I but in the not so distant future I would like to move to full frame in hopefully an EOS 5D upgrade. But if it proves to be such a hit and miss camera (reference Mark III) I've given thought to selling out and making the switch to the like of the D700.

I'll just have to swallow the loss.

[Lunajen]

http://www.caborian.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/canikon.jpg

Just cheked out the shot for the link above....

Is there any possiblity that some of the black lenese might be tamrons on a canon?

[blonde]

http://www.caborian.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/canikon.jpg

Just cheked out the shot for the link above....

Is there any possiblity that some of the black lenese might be tamrons on a canon?

no. if you look you will notice that all the black lenses are the nikon with the gold ring. besides, i doubt ANY professional that is shooting at the olympics will use Tamron...

[DDCSD]

http://www.caborian.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/canikon.jpg

Just cheked out the shot for the link above....

Is there any possiblity that some of the black lenese might be tamrons on a canon?

It is possible that some may be Sigma's or maybe even Tamron's, but I highly doubt it.

[FlyingPhotog]

For those who are jumping ship and want to sell a nice, clean, well cared for 300 f/2.8L IS, PM me would ya please? :)

[CyberDyneSystems]

Well, it could only be SIGMA as Tamron does not make anything even remotely in that league, but they all look Nokin to me.

[CyberDyneSystems]

For those who are jumping ship and want to sell a nice, clean, well cared for 300 f/2.8L IS, PM me would ya please? :)

Ypu want to buy a used MkIII?


You see this is another part of my personal dilemma, I know my MkIII is pants, and so does most of the internet.
To sell it, I'd not only need to overcome my rep by sneaking about with a fake user name and have the checks made out to someone else, but I'd have to pass on my integrity, and burn someone knowingly, which is something I will not do.

[Fabrian]

CDS, I've been there with Canon service/support. It's pretty much been an endless struggle with them and no matter who gets involved, it makes no difference. I've tried and tried...and tried for nearly two years to be a happy Canon shooter, It just-don't-pay. From day one shooting with Nikon (who's service center is 30 minutes away) I've finally gotten to experience what I should have been all along.

I suppose it's harder for you than it was for me to switch, but I have not a single regret. I'm actually happier in general now since all that shipping and waiting is over.

Good luck with the move ;)

[DocFrankenstein]

It's also possible that the white lenses are nikon as well.
no. if you look you will notice that all the black lenses are the nikon with the gold ring. besides, i doubt ANY professional that is shooting at the olympics will use Tamron...

[dithiolium]

This thread is interesting, started as a post of some other disgruntled Canon user, and continued to a mild discussion of CvN, as usual.
It has culminated to Canon's lacklustre service and QC, which I feel is more important than the pixel peeping of low-high ISO. Thanks for sharing and insight ya'all.
I'm a relatively new Canon DSLR user and its troubling to think Canon has lost its marbles. I'll stick with Canon now, hopefully they will clean up the bad rep they generated. Can't say the same in 1-2 yrs if Canon keeps this up, by which time N will have a more solid range on consumer lenses and cameras to tempt.

[2.8orfaster]

They all seem to look like Nikon to me with the exception possibly of the guy with the lens facing the camera looking over his shoulder. MIGHT be a Canon... I think I see a little red in the strap. As for all the others, they all have red straps, gold rings, and silver on the side of the body.


I have a 85mm 1.2L that I use with my 5D. It back focuses 2 or 3 out of 5 times. :confused:

I REALLY hope the 5D MKII has micro adjustment.





http://www.caborian.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/canikon.jpg

Just cheked out the shot for the link above....

Is there any possiblity that some of the black lenese might be tamrons on a canon?

[gjl711]

I REALLY hope the 5D MKII has micro adjustment. This one feature alone will get me to upgrade. Canon has my equipment way too often and this simple feature would solve 90% of my issues.

[silvex]

Well to Canon's points. They have treated me very VERY well. Perhaps I am "lucky". 99% of the times I have taken my gear at the Irvine center. It is ready within 1-4 business days. Some HAD to return, since I discovered other issues.

I asked in the forums if anybody had the manual of the 400/600/600 lenses and nobody had them. I called Canon and explained what I was looking for -- They openned a case. Later they told me that they will find if the had a PDF, else they WILL mail me a copy or the manual itself. They did send me a print out of the manual.

Maybe (again) I have been VERY very lucky with them. Then again, since I am a UNIX Consultant (and have been for 20 some years) and I know the importance of proper etiquette and service. I treat Canon with the most respect...even when I asked to re-calibrabrate my humble 50f/1.8.

I heard of stories of folks going there with a BIG attitude and some furious approach along with a DEMANDING of theirgear to be ready at such times...guess what ....it takes weeks. Canon is not different that many other large corporation. I have dealt with most fortune 500 companies as clients and with most largest vendors as a liason for the fortune 500 -- Respect goes both ways. The second I feel they are not giving respect. I let them know politely and if they don't respond. I advise my customer of the situation and you will be surprise when the loose even a 50k sales...they attitude changes.

So I think Canon WILL react once they see customers drop their gear. I hope they do react and react properly. BTW they are now offering a three year warranty on ALL 1D series if purchase before dec 2008.

[TheHoff]

This one feature alone will get me to upgrade. Canon has my equipment way too often and this simple feature would solve 90% of my issues.

The sad part is I think it could be added with a firmware upgrade. After all when they have your camera and lens on the bench they are simply setting something in the cameras ROM... why can't we do that through a menu?

[cyrn]

Well to Canon's points. They have treated me very VERY well. Perhaps I am "lucky". 99% of the times I have taken my gear at the Irvine center. It is ready within 1-4 business days. Some HAD to return, since I discovered other issues.

I asked in the forums if anybody had the manual of the 400/600/600 lenses and nobody had them. I called Canon and explained what I was looking for. They open a case. Later they told me that they will find if the had a PDF, else they WILL mail me a copy or the manual itself. They did send me a print out of the manual.

Maybe (again) I have been VERY very lucky with them. Then again, since I am a UNIX Consultant (and have been for 20 some years) and I know the importance of proper etiquette and service. I treat canon with the most respect...even when I asked to re-calibrabrate my humble 50f/1.8.

I heard of stories of folks going there with a BIG attitude a some furious approach with a DEMANDING or the gear to be ready at such times...guess what ....it takes weeks. Canon is not different that many other large corporation. I have dealt with most fortune 500 companies as clients and with most largest vendors as a liason for the fortune 500. Respect goes both ways. The second I feel they are not giving respect and let them know politely and if they don't respond. I advise my customer of the situation and you will be surprise when the loose even a 50k sales...they attitude changes.

So I think Canon WILL react once they see customers drop their gear. I hope they do react and react properly. BTW they are now offering a three year warranty on ALL 1D series if purchase before dec 2008.

I believe it's not simply the issue of customer's management. But rather how they handle unexpected situation.

I've got very good encounters with Canon Singapore too. But, my point is that I've been going there more often than I like to.:rolleyes:

[gjl711]

The sad part is I think it could be added with a firmware upgrade. Wouldn't it be wonderful if Canon decided to put that into a firmware upgrade just to generate some good will. Canon, are you listening?

I've got very good encounters with Canon Singapore too. But, my point is that I've been going there more often than I like to.:rolleyes:
Canon service has always treated me well and I have no qualms with them, but like you, I have had too much equipment needing service.

[cyrn]

I have a 85mm 1.2L that I use with my 5D. It back focuses 2 or 3 out of 5 times. :confused:

I REALLY hope the 5D MKII has micro adjustment.

Had it been micro-adjusted wouldn't it front focus 2 or 3 out of 5 times instead?

Canon AF accuracy isn't great to begin with... all these variances might be within their acceptable specifications.

[rang]

Verizon does that to ALL phones.

HAH...AT&T does that to their service with all users.

[apersson850]

What happens when the Admin and most Sr. Moderator of the worlds largest Canon only forum switches to Nikon?Perhaps less than you think?

I have six Canon camera bodies and 17 Canon lenses. All bodies and most lenses bought before I even knew this forum existed.

Entry level buyers (1000D/450D) will buy by the counter. Which is cheaper and feels better?

Professionals often have their own channels for discussions, so many of them may not be too concerned about these forums either.

Remains the more advanced amateurs, who tend to be more or less religiously attached to a certain brand.

So even if it has some impact, it may be far less than those of us, who can't live through a day without a visit to the forums, may believe.

[nphsbuckeye]

During the women's 100M final, I saw mostly Canon gear; there weren't pictures of all of the photographers. Might that have something to do with the events being held outside?

[silvex]

I believe it's not simply the issue of customer's management. But rather how they handle unexpected situation.

I've got very good encounters with Canon Singapore too. But, my point is that I've been going there more often than I like to.:rolleyes:

That my friend is customer service/support...every and I mean EVERY situation should be treated like the MOST important issue of the entire company.

[apersson850]

Canon AF accuracy isn't great to begin with... all these variances might be within their acceptable specifications.Canon themselves claim that normal autofocus (aperture smaller than f/2.8 ) should be within the depth of field at full opening. High precision focusing (requires f/2.8 or larger) should be within one third of the DOF at full opening.

The aperture limit depends on the camera body, but is 2.8 for many of them.

Then whether they keep up with this or not is another thing. It's probably verified against some specific test target.

[number six]

Ypu want to buy a used MkIII?


You see this is another part of my personal dilemma, I know my MkIII is pants, and so does most of the internet.
To sell it, I'd not only need to overcome my rep by sneaking about with a fake user name and have the checks made out to someone else, but I'd have to pass on my integrity, and burn someone knowingly, which is something I will not do.

Nah, you can always sell it on EBay. With full disclosure. There's always somebody who's smarter than everyone else who will want it...

-js

[cyrn]

That my friend is customer service/support...every and I mean EVERY situation should be treated like the MOST important issue of the entire company.

I agree to a certain extent that every situation should be treated properly.

What I meant was how they handle issues like my 70-200L or CDS 1D3... to them they have "tested" and "re-tested" and still no problem to them, but we are still facing it.

Of course, we need to be fair and understanding that not all front-line employees can handle everything, still they should have escalated the case instead of getting back to us with the same answer.

[cyrn]

Canon themselves claim that normal autofocus (aperture smaller than f/2.8) should be within the depth of field at full opening. High precision focusing (requires f/2.8 or larger) should be within one third of the DOF at full opening.

The aperture limit depends on the camera body, but is 2.8 for many of them.

Then whether they keep up with this or not is another thing. It's probably verified against some specific test target.

Sorry, I don't really understand, what's "normal autofocus" "High precision focusing" and "within depth of field"?:oops:

[apersson850]

Oh, excuse me for being a bit carried away.

The different cameras in Canon's EOS range have different autofocus sensor chips. This chip, located at the bottom of the mirror box, is what "sees" your image and tries to figure out when it's in focus.
The more advanced the camera is, the more focus points it has (usually).

If we take the EOS 40D as an example, then it has nine focus points. You can see them when you look in the viewfinder. These focus points look for something with a minimum contrast in the subject, so that they can determine when the contrast is as high as possible. A black line on a white background is excellent for them to focus upon.
Some points are sensitive to horizontal lines only, some to vertical lines only and some to both (cross-type points).
The 40D has only cross-type points, so it has a better chance of finding the correct focus than a 450D, which has only the center point of cross-type. The other eight points in that camera are linear only.

When a camera like the 40D is focusing, with a lens with maximum opening less than f/2.8, like the EF 24-105 mm f/4L IS USM, it will use all its points in normal precision mode.
When focusing a lens, there's something called depth of field. This means that not only what you are focusing at, but also some things closer and further away are in acceptable focus. This is called depth of field. The DOF gets shorter with larger apertures and longer focal lenghts.
When using normal precision autofocus, the camera should be able to hit focus within this depth of field, at the largest opening the lens has. So your image should be in focus, even if you may be at the rim of the DOF, so the DOF distribution may be slightly off.
However, when using lenses with openings of f/2.8 or larger, like the EF 135 mm f/2L USM, the center point on the 40D will start working in high precision mode. This then means that the focusing accuracy should be within 1/3 of the DOF, so even if it's a bit off, it should not be at the rim of the DOF.

There are variations to this for different camera models.

[bacchanal]

Canon themselves claim that normal autofocus (aperture smaller than f/2.8 ) should be within the depth of field at full opening. High precision focusing (requires f/2.8 or larger) should be within one third of the DOF at full opening.

The aperture limit depends on the camera body, but is 2.8 for many of them.

Then whether they keep up with this or not is another thing. It's probably verified against some specific test target.


However, when using lenses with openings of f/2.8 or larger, like the EF 135 mm f/2L USM, the center point on the 40D will start working in high precision mode. This then means that the focusing accuracy should be within 1/3 of the DOF, so even if it's a bit off, it should not be at the rim of the DOF.

There are variations to this for different camera models.

Interesting info. Do you have a source for that (center point af within 1/3 dof at apertures greater than f/2.8_)?

[cyrn]

There are variations to this for different camera models.

Thanks for the clarification, didn't know those cross-type AF sensor can give more accurate AF.

So the "normal" AF specs is DOF of the largest aperture of the lens? Likewise if using lenses that are faster then f2.8, the accuracy is 1/3 the DOF of the largest lens aperture.

[Yiskah]

First, let me clarify that I by no means have any authority (or even knowledge, compared to you guys) whatsoever in this area:)... okay, now- I talked to a guy at a camera shop today who is really into Canon and he said that he looks for Canon to make a big splash at some fall show (he told me the name, but I forget- something kia?). He said that nikon made a huge splash in the spring and that Canon is being humbled big time. In order for them to lose their cockiness, they will need to blow our socks off with something... He just has no idea what is coming up. Do any of you have any idea what he is talking about? He also said that he has had several customers bring back their 1Ds, but still promotes Canon above nikon anyday.