Shooting Ice Hockey

[eunger]

I could use some help from any of you who shoot Ice Hockey. I was shooting an Intramural game tonight with my Dreb (75-300 f/4-5.6 USM III) and I was having difficulty getting the exact exposure I wanted. When I exposed the shot evenly, the historgam was all on the shadow (left side). To compensate for this, I over exposed the shot by +1 & +2 and the histogram was more balanced, but the higlights went off the top of the scale. Even with the highlights this extreme, no parts of the shot were flashing (signaling over exposure). From my understanding of histograms, it is not ideal to have any part of the histogram rate off the top of the scale. Is this something I will just have to deal with and fix in photoshop or is there something I could do to help balance the histogram a little more? I appreciate any thoughts.

[Littlenose]

I'm too am hoping to get to the local rink over here in the next 2-3 weeks to have a go at ice hockey before the season finishes...

I've got the same kit as yourself Erik, so once i've got a few shots done, it should make the settings and methods we use easy to compare and from that we can see what seems to work best.

Mikey

[drisley]

I shoot hockey quite a bit in various venues.
I mostly use the 135F2L lens, sometimes with the 1.4x extender, and I shoot wide open usually at ISO1600. I take a couple test shots first, check my histogram, then lock in a good setting in M mode. I also shoot Raw so that I can worry about white balance later, but the 20D does a great job with auto wb.
Samples with EXIF can be seen here (http://www.fotop.net/sharpnsmart/hockey).

[DaveG]

I could use some help from any of you who shoot Ice Hockey. I was shooting an Intramural game tonight with my Dreb (75-300 f/4-5.6 USM III) and I was having difficulty getting the exact exposure I wanted. When I exposed the shot evenly, the historgam was all on the shadow (left side). To compensate for this, I over exposed the shot by +1 & +2 and the histogram was more balanced, but the higlights went off the top of the scale. Even with the highlights this extreme, no parts of the shot were flashing (signaling over exposure). From my understanding of histograms, it is not ideal to have any part of the histogram rate off the top of the scale. Is this something I will just have to deal with and fix in photoshop or is there something I could do to help balance the histogram a little more? I appreciate any thoughts.

You are always going to have problems with the white ice being overexposed compared to the players skating on it. There are a few things you might want to do.

The first is to do a test at another hockey game. Expose for the ice and then stop the lens down (or increase the shutterspeed) in 1/2 stop increments. It would be nice if some players were in the shot too. Then you can examine the results in Photoshop to see what the optimal exposure should be. That would be one where you still have shadow detail but don't blow out the highlights so much. This will be the overexposure (and it WILL be an overexpsure) that you will use from now on. Obviously you need to set your camera to a manual setting to achieve this.

If you had a 10D or 20D I'd suggest you do it in 1/3 stops increments but my understanding is that the Drebel will only allow 1/2 stops.

The next thing that you can do is to change your shooting angle. If you can get on the ice surface level then you wil be shooting horizontally and there will be much less ice in your shots than if you are thirty rows up and are shooting down. The ice will still be overexposed but there will be a lot less of it. You could add density in Photoshop with some gradient in the corners.

When I shot hockey for the daily newspaper I used to work for, it was with black and white pushed film (Tri-X at ei 1600). The highlights would plug up and be pure white when I tried to print them. I'd burn in the edges to keep a border so that the white ice didn't bleed off to the white paper. Remember though, that ice is WHITE, not grey, so be very carefull how dark you make it.

The last thing that I'd do comes from shooting RAW. I'd convert the RAW file in Photoshop so that the players looked great while ignoring the ice. I'd send it over to Photoshop proper and would save it right away. Then I'd go back into Camera RAW, grab the same RAW file and do the exposure adjustments, but this time only for the ice. The I'd send this one over to Photoshop. I'd "Select All" and then "Copy". Now I'd go back into the first file - the good player exposure. I'd open it up and create a new Layer. I'd make sure I was on this Layer and I would use the paste command. I'd then move this layer to be under the good player Layer. Using the erase tool I could now erase the overexposed ice to get at the properly exposed ice underneath.

This is time consuming but if you have a great shot this is probably worth it. To use this effectively you need the RAW file to start with since it has more latitude than a jpeg, and Camera RAW will give you better control than Photshop's converntional Levels. Whether your DRebel has the buffer to handle shooting sports on RAW is another thing.

[Fills]

I shoot hockey quite a bit in various venues.
I mostly use the 135F2L lens, sometimes with the 1.4x extender, and I shoot wide open usually at ISO1600. I take a couple test shots first, check my histogram, then lock in a good setting in M mode. I also shoot Raw so that I can worry about white balance later, but the 20D does a great job with auto wb.
Samples with EXIF can be seen here (http://www.fotop.net/sharpnsmart/hockey).

Drisley, it's my dream to shoot hockey shots like this. Well my dream is to get a 20D first so I can shoot ISO1600 with that very little noise. I see from the EXIF data you are mostly using F2.8. Is this with the extender? You are actually shooting through the rink glass??? Wow these are very impressive for that reason alone. I need to find a lens for this application... I would guess my 100-400 isn't fast enough, 50 1.4 isn't long enough, and 18-55 or 55-200 cheapo's are not even close to fast or sharp enough. I am guessing you recommend the 135F2L?

Eunger, sorry not trying to steal your post, but I'm wondering if our problems are related, meaning we need faster glass for shot's like Drisley.

Fills

[Akreager]

Adding Mask Pro by extensis to the technique Dave Grady just described will save MUCH time and increase quality of results. It really won't take that long - If the shot is for printing/framing it is worth the extra time.

[eunger]

Fills, I know I need faster glass. I have my eye on the 70-200 f/2.8L, but I will have to wait until this summer when I can earn some easy cash reffing AAU basketball.

DaveG, thanks for the tips, I will try it out next time I go out to the rink. I will try your suggestions. I am not a big fan of having to shoot through a window (the boards), but because it is just a local rink, I am not lucky enough to have a removable section of the glass like you would find at an NHL rink.

[drisley]

Fills, thanks for your comments.
I shoot wide open usually, which is F2 with the 135F2L, and F2.8 with the extender.
It sucks that I have to shoot thru plexi-glass all the time, but it doesnt affect the quality too much, except that it makes skin appear a little jaundice sometimes.
I also highly recommend the 85F1.8 prime. It's quality is almost as good as the 135F2L, but won't allow for tight crops if the action is on the other side of the ice. It's also very affordable.
This picture was taken with the 85F1.8
http://www.fotop.net/sharpnsmart/hockey10242004/MG_3219

[Groundworxs]

I shoot alot of hockey and it can be tricky. First you must do a custom white balance. This is really essential if you want true colours. I shoot in maual mode. ISO 640 @ 2.8 and 500 shutter speed to freeze the action. If you don't have a 2.8 lens or ISO that can go in 1/3's then you will need to adjust those numbers to have a higher ISO. You want the modes set to manual because there too many variables with light. If one team is in white and another is black it will mess up your meter. I can e-mail you some samples if you need.
good luck

[eunger]

Groundworxs, That would be great if you could send me a couple of samples.

[DavidEB]

Drisley's shots are great, but I don't have as fast a lens. I use a Tamron 70-300mm f4-5.6 If I stay at <200mm I can get f4. With that slow lens I need ISO 1600 on my digital rebel, and in most rinks end up at 1/200 shutter speed. At 1/200 I can freeze the player but often the puck, stick/blade, and one skate are blurred. Lean against a post or the glass to brace yourself.

Earlier posts had several ways to set exposure - here's what works well for me - during the warm-up, set camera meter to center spot, and meter off faces, jerseys, and any colored signs painted on the boards, then take a mental average of that. Set that into camera in "M" mode. The ice and boards will be overexposed. Take an out-of-focus shot of blank ice and set the custom white balance. Then shoot a few test shots and adjust, and then ignore it for rest of game. If you hold the camera low you get less glare off the ice. There's also less glare late in the game when the ice is roughed up a little.

Most important tip I can give is that if you sit in the penalty box, you should be sure and duck when action comes toward you, and wear helmet -- with eye in viewfinder you're not always going to see the gigantic defence-man coming your way.

Focus is hard to get right. Even at f4 there's no depth of field when >100mm focal length, and skaters move fast. Watch for moments when players are stationary or moving transverse to you. Aim at the player you think is going to get the pass and wait. Deeks, faceoffs, and goalie shots are opportunities. Stationary players taking slapshots are always turned away from you if you're in the penalty box. Breakaways are good to shoot as they cross the red line (moving transverse).

Younger players don't move as fast and are easier. Plexiglass facemasks make every shot look out-of-focus.

At my son's last game I took 200 shots and kept 20.

My first post to this forum - hope it helps.

[tabrandt]

With two kids playing hockey taking photos at the rink has become my obsession. I appreciate all the info. Getting correct exposure has been my biggest hurdle.

This is one of last weekends photos directly out of the camera (D Rebel) with no processing done to it. The colors just don't seem to pop like those that drisley takes.

Hockey shot with no color correction (http://www.flickr.com/photos/73856722@N00/4130953/)

Any other pointers would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Tom

[Persian-Rice]

Shot it a couple times with the 70-200 F4, it's a bitch shooting in an arena with F4, even a well lit one. F/2.8 is Ideal. So ideal that I'm gonna go pick my 70-200 f/2.8 from across the border on Saturday. Not saying go buy a $1100 lens, but you might want to consider the umm Sigma? or beats me..........

Shooting through glass might require some extra work in Photoshop to remove any haze as most glass is slightly grey. Other then that, I am blessed with a bright arena like Dris is. Porbably cuz Canada spends more money on its arenas then it does on its military.

Unless you have one of the MKII or the 20D bodies, high ISO won't work great, but the 10D and 300D arent as bad as people make them out to be. Cheaper lenses arent fast enough and then best of all the arena is dark. They say hockey is a rich man's game, I guess shooting it is too.

[tabrandt]

Thanks for the reply.

It was late last night when I first posted and I failed to mention that a few weeks ago I did purchase a Canon 70-200 F2.8L for the main reason of taking hockey action shots.

Since purchasing the lens my shots have definately gotten better but I still don't get the color like I am hoping for. I have been setting my D Rebel at ISO 800 on AV set wide open at F2.8.

Should I being setting is up differently?

Thanks again.

[Fills]

I wouldn't say you can do much more on the Rebel. If you're not getting quality shots, it's probably because of the lighting in that arena. If you have the 20D you could probably use ISO1600 but I know on my Rebel I wouldn't be higher than 800.

[drisley]

Actually, you will be able to get more keepers with the 20D mainly because of the AI Servo mode.

[DavidEB]

Tabrandt, I'm not sure but it looks like your shot is under-exposed. Using Av mode, your camera is tryiing to meter each shot. If you are using all 7 AF points, you're getting an average of some player, some ice, some stands, etc. Even if you set to just the center point, as you move the camera the exposure will change. If you point at ice you end up underexposed, if you point at black hockey pants you get overexposed. That's why I set mine in "M" mode -- after you figure out the right exposure it no longer matters where you point the camera. A few other things to check for your color -- is your camera set to "parameter 1" -- my digital rebel out-of-the-box came set to adobe RBG, which sometimes looks washed out. You might want to make a custom parameter for hockey with sharpness and contrast set at about + 1/2 (halfway between parameter 1 and 2) and color saturation set at + 1.5 (above setting for parameter 1). Finally, I can't tell if you're shooting thru the glass. At pro rinks they replace it often, but at local rinks the glass is pretty crummy. Definitely washes out your photos - makes them blurry and grey. Get in the penalty box (and remember to duck). If you offer photos to team members, the coach will let you in.

Focus is hard in hockey shots. Sometimes the depth of field is less deep than 1 player, and I like my shots to show conflict. I tried AI servo (using the hack) but went back to manual focus. If the player is skating towards me I focus on the tip of the blade and then the player skates into focus as I snap. Or, for a fast skater, I give the focus ring an extra twist before shooting. Maybe if I had USM my auto-focus would work faster, I don't know.


attached are some shots from recent games....

[tabrandt]

Thanks DavidEB.

Those are some really good tips. I bet my dRebel settings are also right out of the box. I will make a few changes and see what if any difference it will make. I have my mind set to start saving for a 20D. Although I like my dRebel it is frustrating that I can change the metering or the focusing modes. At first I even tried the sports mode for the Al Servo but then the ISO drops to 400 and I never had enough light to make that work.

Thanks again for the tips.

Tom

[3oh6]

im a little late to the punch on this one but im gonna throw my hat in the ring. i have only shot one hockey game(university) and it was in an NHL quality arena (JLC in London ON) so i was able to fire at 1/640 on 400iso anywhere from f/1.8-f/2.8 but im not here to talk about how lucky i was to shoot there. the reason i figured i would chime in is about lense talk and lack of light. i was using my 85mm f/1.8 and it performed flawlessly. sure it was a little short for opposite side of the ice action, but i was still able to pull excellent looking 8x10s of action over there. i was pinned up against the glass just inside the blue line.

ideally i would have two bodies, one with the 85 (for action on my own side) and one with an 135 f/2.0 (for full frame action on the opposite side). i think that would be best of both worlds. but the 85 (with a 1.6 crop body such as yours) up against the glass just inside the blue line gives you a good angle at breaks coming from the neutral zone and an almost full framed shot on net. i was able to get a lot of good shots with just the 85mm and being able to open up to f/1.8 would really help out in those less than ideally lit arenas.

here is a link to my shots http://3oh6.com/uwo/hockey/jan%2029%20lakehead%20vs%20uwo/ they are very small versions as i was having issues with the group i shot for taking them off the web and making their own prints (which was not part of the deal) but you can get the idea of what i was able to accomplish with just the 85mm. its a nice, relatively cheap (about $300USD slightly used on most of the boards) lense that gives you a very big aperature for dark arenas. another lense to think about, the 135 f/2, as drisley uses, would also be a relatively cheap lense that would be good for hockey from the penalty box i would think.

[drisley]

they are very small versions as i was having issues with the group i shot for taking them off the web and making their own prints (which was not part of the deal) but you can get the idea of what i was able to accomplish with just the 85mm.

Those are indeed very nice pictures. The 85F1.8 is an awesome indoor sports lens, and make a great companion to the 50F1.8 and 135F2L.
I can't believe they were stealing your images!
I think you should probably look at putting a watermark on/across your images.

[3oh6]

thanx drisley, i was a little shocked to hear about it. originally they asked if i would be willing to get 16x20s done for them. i gave them my prices and hadn't heard back from them. then when i went into the shop i get my prints done at one of the techs said he had someone come in with a file with my name on the exif asking if he could get 16x20s done. they said not with that size and told them to contact the photographer for the larger file size ;)

needless to say i am in the process of putting together a big nasty watermark so i can increase the size of pics i show people again. i had no idea i was going to be getting into this sort of thing this early in the game.

[drisley]

That would make me extremely angry.
Wow

[3oh6]

i find it more amusing than anything...they thought they could get a 16x20 done with a 600px x 809px image at 72dpi riiiiiight ;) it would look like a rasterbator print.

[tabrandt]

3oh6, your photos are fantastic. How much cropping did you have to do? I can not believe that people were stealing your images and then printing. I agree with drisley that you should look into some sort of watermark.

I was also hoping to start doing a few more indoor sports as well as plan on looking into getting a used 85 1.8.

I just read you latest posting and can't believe they even took the file into the place where you get things printed. I hope this isn't behavior I have to look forward to.