Facebook and Images

[aebrown]

Hello Everyone!

I had a question for all of you and it pertains to uploading pictures onto a site such as facebook. I was reading through some of the "Terms of Agreement" when you choose to upload pictures that you have to check off and it reads:

"When you post User Content to the Site, you authorize and direct us to make such copies thereof as we deem necessary in order to facilitate the posting and storage of the User Content on the Site. By posting User Content to any part of the Site, you automatically grant, and you represent and warrant that you have the right to grant, to the Company an irrevocable, perpetual, non-exclusive, transferable, fully paid, worldwide license (with the right to sublicense) to use, copy, publicly perform, publicly display, reformat, translate, excerpt (in whole or in part) and distribute such User Content for any purpose, commercial, advertising, or otherwise, on or in connection with the Site or the promotion thereof, to prepare derivative works of, or incorporate into other works, such User Content, and to grant and authorize sublicenses of the foregoing. You may remove your User Content from the Site at any time. If you choose to remove your User Content, the license granted above will automatically expire, however you acknowledge that the Company may retain archived copies of your User Content. Facebook does not assert any ownership over your User Content; rather, as between us and you, subject to the rights granted to us in these Terms, you retain full ownership of all of your User Content and any intellectual property rights or other proprietary rights associated with your User Content."

Does this mean that facebook can technically use my photos (if that qualifies as "user content" for whatever they want? Or am I looking at the wrong thing here?

Also, in reading they're copyright information they say that the user has the right to their "intellectual property." Is that just a fancy term for essentially anything that they own the right to (e.g. pictures, writings, other artwork)?

Thanks for the help guys, and I know its a lot of reading in this post, but it would be really helpful to know that I may be signing my pictures away! Thanks again!

[SuzyView]

I know I just joined FaceBook and I hate it. I've gotten a ton of "new friends" and it never stops. But I think whenever you put images on the web, it doesn't ever go away and anyone can get a copy of it, as my adult son has told me. He says that it doesn't take much to get any image from anywhere if you know what you're doing.

[aebrown]

Anyone know anything else about this? And thank you Suzy!

[Anke]

By "User Content" it means your images and the "copies" bit probably means copying it onto different servers across the globe to enable your images to be viewable 100% of the time, i.e. in case one server cannot be accessed.

Although I could be wrong.

[narlus]

I know I just joined FaceBook and I hate it. I've gotten a ton of "new friends" and it never stops.

it is a billion times better than myspace...i just started dabbling in FB last night, and i like it ton more. i saw the coined term 'myspaceicide' and i think i will commit that as well.

But I think whenever you put images on the web, it doesn't ever go away and anyone can get a copy of it, as my adult son has told me. He says that it doesn't take much to get any image from anywhere if you know what you're doing.

that is true, but doesn't stop me from using the 'Photo Sharing' forums here either. if you are truly worried about inappropriate usage, either watermark the hell out of the image or don't post it anyway (or even publish it, scanners still work).

[basroil]

Back to OP's topic:

The facebook thing basically says, we can use any images you give us in whatever way we feel, including giving it to third party advertisers. Ever notice random ads that have photos that look like a random person with a P&S camera took them? That's because it's someone's picture they posted in facebook and facebook sublicensed it.

The second thing that facebook says is that they do not claim ownership of the photographs, only of a license to the material. That way they have their asses covered if someone uploads copyrighted material they do not have access to use.

[mr_e]

It's not as bad as everyone seems to make it, all you have to do is remove your content and the license you granted them expires.

By posting User Content to any part of the Site, you automatically grant, and you represent and warrant that you have the right to grant, to the Company an irrevocable, perpetual, non-exclusive, transferable, fully paid, worldwide license (with the right to sublicense) to use, copy, publicly perform, publicly display, reformat, translate, excerpt (in whole or in part) and distribute such User Content for any purpose, commercial, advertising, or otherwise, on or in connection with the Site or the promotion thereof, to prepare derivative works of, or incorporate into other works, such User Content, and to grant and authorize sublicenses of the foregoing. You may remove your User Content from the Site at any time. If you choose to remove your User Content, the license granted above will automatically expire, however you acknowledge that the Company may retain archived copies of your User Content. Facebook does not assert any ownership over your User Content; rather, as between us and you, subject to the rights granted to us in these Terms, you retain full ownership of all of your User Content and any intellectual property rights or other proprietary rights associated with your User Content.

[mr_e]

Ever notice random ads that have photos that look like a random person with a P&S camera took them? That's because it's someone's picture they posted in facebook and facebook sublicensed it.

Not to nitpick, but do you have anything to back that up? That's a pretty scary claim to make.

[basroil]

Not to nitpick, but do you have anything to back that up? That's a pretty scary claim to make.

I haven't taken screenshots, didn't seem that special to me. It's in the terms of use though, so perfectly legal (I do wonder about consent age considerations sometimes). Used to get more of them, now everything is being targeted so all the ads are photo ones...:confused:

Edit: forgot to say that in a random search i did a photo that came up matched an ad i had gotten a few times.

[P51Mstg]

I'm guessing that a poster above was correct in that FB can copy them to other servers to have them available. Also they can use them in their own advertising. When you take them down they can "retain" copys for the simple reason that they may not be able to find all of them to delete them. Lastly, FB may well be able to sell your pics for other purposes....... (without compensation to you).

Mark H

[Stocky]

hmmm... do people usually submit model releases with every picture they post on facebook? It doesn't seem like they could use them for much otherwise.

[TeeJay]

I don't use such sites, but what would worry me is that if they can "sublicense" your images to anybody else they feel like, what happens to all the copies of your image that they have given away (and been paid for) when you remove the image(s) from their server?

How do the various "users" of these licensed images know that you have in effect pulled the plug on them?

TJ

[narlus]

hmmm... do people usually submit model releases with every picture they post on facebook? It doesn't seem like they could use them for much otherwise.

the same question dawned on me today...i primarily shoot bands, for editorial purposes...i never have any model releases, so Facebook wouldn't be able to use my photos for commercial purposes, regardless of what their Terms of Use are.

interesting question.

[TeeJay]

.... By posting User Content to any part of the Site, you automatically grant, and you represent and warrant that you have the right to grant,....

My guess is they would use this part of their T&C's to indicate that you have the necessary model releases in place!

TJ

[Billo78]

My view is that if FB want to use my low res 100kb images on line without my consent then that's pretty low, but they're not going to be able to sell images of that low resolution anywhere so it's hardly like I'm going to see one of my photos on a billboard for the new Toyota campaign or anything. The potential benefits I get from putting my photos on FB are far greater than the potential costs For instance I'm just starting out in the world of weddings and portraits and various other commercial endeavours, and if there are 200+ people who get a fresh selection of my favourite photos every few weeks (I've had a number of friend requests from people I hardly know who want to add me just so they can see my pics) when the time comes for them to walk down the aisle, or get some family portraits done, or when their netball club needs a photographer for their awards night then I'll be in the front running for the gig.

The remote possiblity that FB will use my low res images seems a small price to pay for the marketing and exposure opportunities that it offers.

[narlus]

My guess is they would use this part of their T&C's to indicate that you have the necessary model releases in place!

TJ


ah, that explains it.

[sfaust]

...by posting user Content to any part of the Site, you automatically grant, and you represent and warrant that you have the right to grant ...

My guess is they would use this part of their T&C's to indicate that you have the necessary model releases in place!

TJ

The rights to grant a license doesn't negate the need for a model release. They are separate entities and are treated as such. So I don't think they could get away with using non-released images and hang the issues on the photographers.