Am I still shooting in "Auto"???

[Awdrey]

O.K. When I finally made the jump from portrait mode to Tv and Av I was so excited b/c I thought I was using manual settings. I know I wasn't manually setting everything, but I was some of it. When I read the files on the pictures though, it says it was Auto settings, not Tv or AV or what ever. Does this mean I still can't say I'm off the auto settings???

[JeffreyG]

O.K. When I finally made the jump from portrait mode to Tv and Av I was so excited b/c I thought I was using manual settings. I know I wasn't manually setting everything, but I was some of it. When I read the files on the pictures though, it says it was Auto settings, not Tv or AV or what ever. Does this mean I still can't say I'm off the auto settings???
Av and Tv are auto metered settings. The camera meter is making decisions for you.

You still have a lot more control than in a full auto mode as you control focus points, modes, ISO, use of flash, exposure compensation, RAW capture etc.

Plus you are controlling either shutter or aperture directly which gives more control.

Eventually you will find that as you become very comfortable with exposure that M mode (taking control of all aspects of the exposure) makes good sense, but you will also find that there are several equally valid ways of getting to the correct exposure. People shoot and chimp, meter reflective tones and use incident meters. All methods are valid so long as you get the result you want.

[PhotosGuy]

This shows how the subject can affect the exposure & why manual keeps me worry free:
Post #47 (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showpost.php?p=5191658&postcount=47)

For a good starting point, first set the f-stop & shutter speed you need. Then adjust the ISO.
Need an exposure crutch? (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=89123)

[Mike R]

Come on, you know you want to turn the dial to M. Now is the time to do it.
The first time is the most stressfull but once you see the control that you have, You will seldom,if ever, leave M. Do it now before an important shoot.
You can't break anything and digital is much cheaper than learning with film. Your learning curve should be short with the instant feedback and help from the folks here at POTN.
Enjoy the journey

[Awdrey]

Well I take a lot of indoor shots with my kids and a lot of times I would like to try a larger aperture, but that won't let me without a tripod, too slow of a shutter speed. Did I explain that right??? Also, I can't figure out why I can only go as fast a 1/200 shutter speed with the flash on but much faster if it's off??? Can you tell I don't know what I'm talking about LOL

[Lonnie]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with using Av and Tv modes. They are very handy in dynamic settings where you won't always have time to dial your settings in. A lot of times I will keep my camera in Av. If I see something I want to shoot, I go ahead and pop a shot or two. If I have time, I chimp. If I don't like the exposure, I go to M and fine tune things.

There are still times when I'll even switch to one of the dummy modes. I shot one of my daughter's soccer games in sports mode a few months ago. You know what? The pictures turned out just fine. I just wasn't in the mood to fiddle around with the camera that day, so I didn't. Having said that, I will probably never use green box again - I am almost always dissatisfied with the results green box gives me.

When I do "studio" type work, I am always in M so I can have complete control of ambient and strobe lighting.

Av and Tv are the "gateway" modes to M. Don't sweat it. Just enjoy shooting. When the time is right for you to use M, you'll do it because you want to.

[buto]

Well I take a lot of indoor shots with my kids and a lot of times I would like to try a larger aperture, but that won't let me without a tripod, too slow of a shutter speed. Did I explain that right??? Also, I can't figure out why I can only go as fast a 1/200 shutter speed with the flash on but much faster if it's off??? Can you tell I don't know what I'm talking about LOL

1/200 or 1/250 is normal. That's the fastest a flash can light the sensor. If you go any faster, without high speed sync, part of your image or all of your image will not be illuminated

If the shutter speed is to slow, you should try bumping up your ISO.

[Awdrey]

I have a M question. Is it pretty safe to say that with out a tripod I won't be able to take indoor photos with the camera set to M??? Here's what I did... With a subject only a few feet away from me I set it to M and when I got my little meter in the middle I was at 1/20, f/1.8, ISO 1600. From what I think I've learned 1. That's a high ISO making for a grainy shoot, 2 That is too slow of a shutter speed (using a 50mm lens) making for blurry pic. I also had 430 ex flash if that matters. Most of the time my shots are not going to allow me to use a tripod. I have four kiddos and I don't won't to use a tripod. Besides at that slow of shutter speed wouldn't they have to be completely still or it would be blurry any way???

[Lonnie]

1/20, f/1.8, ISO 1600

That must have been one really dark room you were shooting in! You are definitely going to need some more light, whether it be by using interior lighting, flash, or using sunlight through a window.

[Hermeto]

That must have been one really dark room you were shooting in! You are definitely going to need some more light, whether it be by using interior lighting, flash, or using sunlight through a window.

Either bring light to the subject, or bring subject to the light.
Pick your choice.. ;)

[Awdrey]

That must have been one really dark room you were shooting in! You are definitely going to need some more light, whether it be by using interior lighting, flash, or using sunlight through a window.


Well I was in our living room with the over head light on. Now don't forget that I don't know what I'm talking about LOL I mean I can at least read the numbers off my camera and I know that the thing was in the middle, but maybe I could have done something different, I don't know??? The room wasn't that dark IMO That's why I feel like I can never use M in my house b/c that's the readings I always get.

[Lonnie]

Well I was in our living room with the over head light on. Now don't forget that I don't know what I'm talking about LOL I mean I can at least read the numbers off my camera and I know that the thing was in the middle, but maybe I could have done something different, I don't know The room wasn't that dark IMO That's why I feel like I can never use M in my house b/c that's the readings I always get.

That's interesting. I found areas of my house that the meter would give me a midscale reading at the settings you used and they were all quite dark, as I expected. At my house, a room with a two 60w light fixture meters subjects at around 1/50 at f/1.8 and ISO 1600.

In either case you will need more light. This discussion may be more useful to you and others if you post some pictures with EXIF data intact.

[Awdrey]

How do I post pics with the exif intact?

[Lonnie]

What image editing software do you use Awdrey?

[Lonnie]

NM, I looked at a few of your images and noticed you edit in Elements. The EXIF data (all the details of the shot: mode, ISO, shutter speed, aperture, etc) will be stripped by Elements if you use Save for web. If you use Save As to save and resize your file instead, the EXIF will be retained with the image. It makes it easier for those viewing your work to know exactly what is going on with the shot.

[tzalman]

Well I was in our living room with the over head light on. Now don't forget that I don't know what I'm talking about LOL I mean I can at least read the numbers off my camera and I know that the thing was in the middle, but maybe I could have done something different, I don't know??? The room wasn't that dark IMO That's why I feel like I can never use M in my house b/c that's the readings I always get.
If the needle is centered, the numbers you get in M are exactly the same as the settings the camera would supply in an auto or semi-auto mode. So it has nothing to do with shooting in a particular mode, it's purely a question of light level.
My advice, for what it's worth: Use your 430 EX with the head rotated up to bounce off the ceiling or rotated to the side for bounce from a wall. Shoot in M with the speed set to 1/80 or 1/100 and aperture at f/4 or f/5.6 and ISO 800 - the speed of the flash discharge (your main light source) will prevent motion blur but the 1/80 speed will prevent the background from being black while the f/4 will provide enough DoF to cover your subject and better image quality. When you shoot flash (with ETTL enabled) you are getting the best of both worlds, the flash is auto controlled while you are manually controlling the exposure of the ambient light.

[Awdrey]

If the needle is centered, the numbers you get in M are exactly the same as the settings the camera would supply in an auto or semi-auto mode. So it has nothing to do with shooting in a particular mode, it's purely a question of light level.


Oh no! I thought I had it figured out??? I thought I had to have the needle in the middle??? I didn't know that was the same as using it auto by it being in the middle. I don't think I'll ever understand

[Awdrey]

Well those settings worked perfectly. The thing is I knew all alone I needed the shutter speed to be around in that area along with the f stops being in that general area and the same for ISO speed. I just thought in order for it all to work I needed the needle to be in the middle as well. It was all the way to the left at -2 so I don't know what that means???

[tonylong]

Well those settings worked perfectly. The thing is I knew all alone I needed the shutter speed to be around in that area along with the f stops being in that general area and the same for ISO speed. I just thought in order for it all to work I needed the needle to be in the middle as well. It was all the way to the left at -2 so I don't know what that means???

Those settings were for using flash but letting some ambient light through. If you had not used flash you would have gotten an underexposed shot.

If you want to compare, take a shot in Auto or Portrait mode with the 430 on and check your settings and compare them to the ones above. Auto will tend to use flash as the main light, whereas the setings suggested above use flash together with ambient. If you take both of those settings as starting points, do some testing in Manual and making changes as you go, it should help you to understand how things are working.

[Awdrey]

Well let me rephrase that. I knew all alone that those were the settings I WANTED to use.

[buto]

Check this out for Flash 101:
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=171657

more reading: http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=138907

[Awdrey]

I have the book Understanding Exposure by Bryan Petterson He says right here in one of the first pages of the book to set your camera to M set it to f/5.6 and adjust the shutter speed until the camera's light meter indicates a corect exposure. Then he says "You've just made a manual correct exposure." So I don't know if I should be using the meter or not use the meter to help me make my settings.

[tonylong]

I have the book Understanding Exposure by Bryan Petterson He says right here in one of the first pages of the book to set your camera to M set it to f/5.6 and adjust the shutter speed until the camera's light meter indicates a corect exposure. Then he says "You've just made a manual correct exposure." So I don't know if I should be using the meter or not use the meter to help me make my settings.

He's given the approach for simulating Av: at a given ISO, set your desired aperture, then adjust the shutter speed to obtain a "correct" exposure. That's fine in many scenes with no action and good lighting or when using a tripod or other support -- the shutter speed "doesn't matter".

However, many who shoot in various settings have to use "3D thinking": You decide what aperture and shutter speed you need or want, depending on the lighting and the "scene dynamics" (such as moving subjects) then you adjust the ISO to an estimated "starting point". This may or may not be what the camera indicates as the "center point", depending on the subject and the dynamic range of the scene.

When shooting flash it's different because the flash is adding light to the scene and you have to decide how to incorporate the flash. You may do like the above, exposing for the available light, then use the flash as "fill flash", but bear in mind that the "normal" shutter speed for flash maxes out at either 1/200" or 1/250" depending on your body. So, often, you may set your manual exposure to a setting that depends on the lighting and your desired use of the flash. You may get a setting that would be underexposed for the available light if flash was your main light.