What will 5D mkII hold after 50D is released?

[Pen6uiN]

now that we've seen the official annoucement of 50D

I think 5D mkII which will be inevitably launched during photokina will look something like this:

at least 15mp
digic 4
4fps
3" vga lcd
12800 iso
live viewso essentially its atleast the same spec with 50D but a full frame body

price would be somewhere around the USD3000 - USD3200 mark

if so, will u still buy one

[TheHoff]

That is a downgrade of the 50D. 15 MP at only 4 fps? You really went out on a limb for this prediction, eh?

[Pete]

Any significant upgrade of the 5D body will most likely make it a direct competitor of the 1Ds Mk II.

But with Digic III, auto sensor smearing, and Live View (and no grip)

[Pen6uiN]

considering it will be a larger sensor .. it wont be faster or equal than the 50D 6fps

[Jim G]

Well... assuming that it's <the 21mp of the 1ds III but > the 15mp of the 50D... how's, say, 18mp suit? :D

[TheHoff]

considering it will be a larger sensor .. it wont be faster or equal than the 50D 6fps

I don't think the size of the sensor matters, does it? It is all about pixel moving speed.. 15 MP is 15 MP to capture and record no matter how big of a sensor they're spread out on.

[Pete]

I don't think the size of the sensor matters, does it? It is all about pixel moving speed.. 15 MP is 15 MP to capture and record no matter how big of a sensor they're spread out on.

There's also the physical limitations of how fast a big mirror can take to flip around.

Canon had no problem in getting 10fps out of the 1D MkIII (1.3 crop sensor), don't forget...

[TheHoff]

Sure, good point, but we had FF mirrors flipping out at 6 FPS twenty years ago, so that shouldn't be the challenge.

[tiero]

What about GPS?

[Pete]

Cameras now have a great deal more "innards" than 20 years ago... :D

Also, there could be a marketing issue here. The "sports" and "P/J" bodies of the 1D line could be at top speed, whereby the "studio" bodies might be artificially restrained in their fps speed so that the top earners (sports and news markets) feel as though they're being better represented in the fps stakes.

[roli_bark]

You forgot an important feature [what had bought my attention]:
Micro AF Adjustment. The end of the endless B.F/F.F recalibrations SAGA ...

[fensterbme]

now that we've seen the official annoucement of 50D

so essentially its atleast the same spec with 50D but a full frame body

price would be somewhere around the USD3000 - USD3200 mark

if so, will u still buy one

I'm with Hoff... You stated the obvious here.

As for your assertion that the replacement for the 5D will be just like a 50D with a full-frame sensor, how is that different than the existing 5D which is essentially a 30D with a full-frame sensor? It's not...

The 5D MkII won't be a competitor to the 1Ds, people who can afford and need the 1Ds will buy it. The only people it might be a competitor is to the hobbyist who can afford the 5D but not the 1Ds in their own little mind.

[AinsworthPhoto]

I say:
18MP
digic 4
no live view
3" VGA LCD
6 fps
no flash
print button
ISO 100 - 3200, High 12800
sRAW (8 MP)
Self-cleaning sensor

[stathunter]

I say:
18MP
digic 4
no live view
3" VGA LCD
6 fps
no flash
print button
ISO 100 - 3200, High 12800
sRAW (8 MP)
Self-cleaning sensor

Hello.....you forgot about the new MP3 feature built into it.......come on now.

[TheHoff]

Why would they not include live view, a feature on literally every other body in the line?

[stathunter]

Why would they not include live view, a feature on literally every other body in the line?

I personally would prefer nightvision vs live view.

[Colorblinded]

I predict it will have a popcorn button.

[VTSHEP1]

If they follow what they did with the 20D - 5D release shouldnt the MP be around 24? The math isnt exact but factoring the crop factor the 20D and 5D have about the same pixel density... 24 MP would be in direct competition with the 1Ds, that stinks for Canon, but with Nikon entering this arena with an offering for MUCH less $$ they should swallow that bullet.

Anyone know of a good place where i can learn about "gapless microlenses"?

[TheHoff]

I personally would prefer nightvision vs live view.

I've been asking for this (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/437538-REG/Newcon_NVS63HD_Dual_Aviator_1x25_3rd.html) for Christmas for 6 years running

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/largeimages/437538.jpg

[VTSHEP1]

BTW, this 50D release is nice, taking back real estate from Nikon, if they follow with a D3 killer 5DmkII they will have staged a comeback!

[Ocean Blue]

Sure, good point, but we had FF mirrors flipping out at 6 FPS twenty years ago, so that shouldn't be the challenge.

Agreed - wasn't the 1V with motor drive at 10 FPS, and Nikon has a FF mirror on the D3 going at 11 FPS.

[KayakPhotos]

Nice Hoff... Being in the military I got to use the latest of their night vision line and it was quite an experience. The set that I used only covered one eye because anyone who has ever used NVG's knows that they greatly distort an individuals depth perception. Night vision would definitely be a cool camera feature, but I think that we have a ways to go.

My crazy theory about the 5D Mark II, is that it went back to the drawing board when Canon caught wind of the D700, and they threw the intended features into the 50D early instead. Then they started revamping the 5D, so that it can be even better then intended in order to keep Nikon from totally stealing the show with the D700. I expect everything from the 50D, plus a larger MP sensor (21 sounds pretty realistic) and possibly some weather sealing.

That would be if they have been listening to people like those on this thread. If they do not care about real photographers and only care about money, then they probably came out with the 50D because it would pull people from the D300 market that "liked" canon better, and regain canon dominance in the consumer realm.

[RikWriter]

I don't think Canon is going to be worried about the 5D's MP count outshining the 1DsMKIII. After all, they put a 12MP sensor in the Rebel XSi...

[fensterbme]

My crazy theory about the 5D Mark II, is that it went back to the drawing board when Canon caught wind of the D700, and they threw the intended features into the 50D early instead. Then they started revamping the 5D, so that it can be even better then intended in order to keep Nikon from totally stealing the show with the D700. I expect everything from the 50D, plus a larger MP sensor (21 sounds pretty realistic) and possibly some weather sealing.


I think your crazy theory makes some sense... I think the D700 was a bit of a suprise for me, but it was a smart move by Nikon and in retrospect I should have seen it coming.

I also think clearly that Canon has put the pedal down and thrown in all they have, I think realizing that the days of basically being a year or more ahead of Nikon are long gone and they have a real fight on their hands (and a new player who wants to throw some punches by the name of Sony). I could see them being somewhat caught off-guard and working furiously to make the show to release it in the nick of time... Or they could just wait until PMA in March of 2009, but I think by waiting that long shows that Canon was really caught off guard.

I love my 5D but it's not perfect... and I need to buy two new camera bodies, I was hoping to buy the 50D and the 5D MkII or whatever they call it, but if no new 5D appears I'll likely limp along until the spring.

[mattograph]

Yes, I think its pretty evident that Canon is going to war with megapixel count now. This will reap huge dividends for them up to the pro buyer. There are lots of pros that shoot the 5D because its a great camera.

I like the sound of 18 MP. Its a 50% jump over the current 5D, its a size that Canon can execute well.

I won't predict what the camera will have, but I sadly know what it won't, based on the price that we see batted around:

45 Point AF
Integral Grip

[brianch]

i personally think the new 5D will be released during PMA of 09

[Tom W]

I don't think Canon is going to be worried about the 5D's MP count outshining the 1DsMKIII. After all, they put a 12MP sensor in the Rebel XSi...

Exactly - they need to worry about the D700, not the 1Ds3. If they sell a few less 1Ds3's because of a top-notch 5D2, that's still a positive for Canon. If they sell a few less 5D2's because of the D700, that's a negative for Canon.

And don't forget Sony's upcoming offering as well as Nikon's next body - Sony's not shy about it's 25 mpx full-frame sensor coming out soon.

[Tom W]

i personally think the new 5D will be released during PMA of 09

And by that time, a lot of Canon users will be happily shooting with their new Nikon D700 or D3. Canon isn't going to let that happen.

[jbuk1975]

And by that time, a lot of Canon users will be happily shooting with their new Nikon D700 or D3. Canon isn't going to let that happen.


its possible they have nothing up their sleeve to prevent it , although i really hope they do as i am holding out for the 5dII

[WildKC]

I am still hoping for the new 5d info to come out tommorrow and with 21MP, why, because they can.

[Tom W]

its possible they have nothing up their sleeve to prevent it , although i really hope they do as i am holding out for the 5dII

Oh, I'm pretty sure that they've got something. If not, they'd have come up with an intermediate body already, selecting from the available parts bin just to minimize the bleeding until the new body could be ready.

[Styria]

My crazy theory about the 5D Mark II, is that it went back to the drawing board when Canon caught wind of the D700, and they threw the intended features into the 50D early instead. Then they started revamping the 5D, so that it can be even better then intended in order to keep Nikon from totally stealing the show with the D700. I expect everything from the 50D, plus a larger MP sensor (21 sounds pretty realistic) and possibly some weather sealing.

I think this theory is wrong, based on the timing. Check out the review (and translation) by the Swedish bird photographer: http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=558915. He says that he received the invitation at the end of June to be in commercials for a new camera. And that from an advertising agency, not Canon proper; this means Canon was preparing for marketing and the 50D effort was no longer solely the realm of R&D or field testing. Also, he had the camera on-hand in mid-July, and reports that it's great rather than buggy.

This doesn't sound like something that Canon threw together at the last minute, creating a rushed project out of one that already had serious work and accidentally getting right what sounds like a great camera. They certainly didn't create a sensor like that with 2-3 months forewarning on a D700 when they could get away with the 1DsII's on a 5D replacement. Canon was ready and on schedule for their announcement today. I think the rumors for a 5D replacement are still good too, considering the people who were right on 15.1 MP, 6.3 fps, and that the 50D would be early, and had correct 1D3/1Ds3 info in their old posts on FM, seem consistent on what they say about the 5D. Even if it is sketchy and Canon is tight-lipped on the matter.

[mattograph]

Although I am not privy to the inner workings at Canon, I would bet you a $1 that Canon knew about the D700 long before we did. With that in mind, although its not unheard of, it would be very unusual to scrap a project based on what the competition is doing. Its not practical unless they are way off the mark. What most likely happens is that they anticipate Nikons reaction, and plan to build past it.

In truth, the D700 offers a better AF system, better noise performance, and a more rugged body than the 5D. And you pay $800 more for the D700.

With that in mind, the 5D is TODAY a worthy competitor, at 3 years old.

[fi20100]

I'm just glad if the leave out video mode... let Noink be first with that!

[Mystwalker]

I do not think Canon will be too concerned about losing 1D/1Ds sales to 5DMkIIs.

Canon need to be concerned about losing Canon sales to Nikon D300 and D700s.

I thought Canon had a big lead when it comes to "sporting events". Recently, at what is probably biggest sporting event in world, I see far more "black" lens then white. I'm assuming all of Canon's long "L"s are white. I'm thinking maybe 60%-75% black lens.

I hope Canon noticed this because they probably do not care about opinion of newb like myself, but when they lose that much market share at the biggest sporting event ... that's embarrassing!

If I can only figure out what lens I'm looking at, I may switch to D300/D700. For life of me, can't figure out how they have their lens arranged - besides looking for gold ring on lens itself which doesn't help when looking at description.

[coldcase]

I do not think Canon will be too concerned about losing 1D/1Ds sales to 5DMkIIs.

Canon need to be concerned about losing Canon sales to Nikon D300 and D700s.

I thought Canon had a big lead when it comes to "sporting events". Recently, at what is probably biggest sporting event in world, I see far more "black" lens then white. I'm assuming all of Canon's long "L"s are white. I'm thinking maybe 60%-75% black lens.

I hope Canon noticed this because they probably do not care about opinion of newb like myself, but when they lose that much market share at the biggest sporting event ... that's embarrassing!

If I can only figure out what lens I'm looking at, I may switch to D300/D700. For life of me, can't figure out how they have their lens arranged - besides looking for gold ring on lens itself which doesn't help when looking at description.

Don't forget the D3 from Nikon. That's what Nikon sport shooters use. Canon needs a new 1D also for it. 50D will take care of the D300. 5DII will go against the D700.

[Pen6uiN]

As for your assertion that the replacement for the 5D will be just like a 50D with a full-frame sensor, how is that different than the existing 5D which is essentially a 30D with a full-frame sensor? It's not...
To fensterbme: what i am saying is ... I think the new 5D will be atleast as powerful as 50D with digic 4 & 15mp but full frame

i am sure that a lot of people will go for the full frame factor of the new 5D, because as u said, not everyone is professional & can afford the $5k price tag, but more as an enthusiast hobbyist like me

I do not think Canon will be too concerned about losing 1D/1Ds sales to 5DMkIIs.

Canon need to be concerned about losing Canon sales to Nikon D300 and D700s.

i totally agree with Mystwalker
Canon should be worried about its sales to D700 & I think the new 5D will be a D700 killer

[AinsworthPhoto]

I went on a Photo Walk this past weekend, and all I can say Canon better get their $h*T together. I have never seen so many Nikons, tons of D300's, and D3's. Out of 60 or so photographers at least 75% Nikon. 2 Years ago that # would have been reversed.

[crazyskillz07]

I went on a Photo Walk this past weekend, and all I can say Canon better get their $h*T together. I have never seen so many Nikons, tons of D300's, and D3's. Out of 60 or so photographers at least 75% Nikon. 2 Years ago that # would have been reversed.

Did you images suddenly get worse because of all the Nikon cameras? :(

[FlyingPhotog]

Did you images suddenly get worse because of all the Nikon cameras? :(

Haven't you ever been affected by the dreaded Nikon Square of Confusion?
It makes Canon users totally unable to shoot. :rolleyes:

Personally, I enjoyed the hell out of the meet n greet parts of the Photowalk. Learned a lot about Nikon gear that I either didn't know or was misinformed about.

[Stunnaz]

There should be two new full-frame cameras from Canon. One is 16mp (50D with full frame sensor) for $1899, and the other is a 21mp with 1-series auto-focus and video recording in HD for $2600.

[AinsworthPhoto]

Did you images suddenly get worse because of all the Nikon cameras? :(

No, I shot some great images. The point I was trying to make is that Canon is starting to loose ground to Nikon. I didn't go out the next day and get a Nikon like so many have. A lot of people are switching to Nikon like the Megapixel lemmings that they are. Canon makes great cameras and probably always will, but they are losing market share to Nikon fast. I could give 2 $h*ts what anybody shoots, the camera doesn't make the photographer. Again the point that you missed was that Canon is losing the PR war.

Haven't you ever been affected by the dreaded Nikon Square of Confusion?
It makes Canon users totally unable to shoot. :rolleyes:

Personally, I enjoyed the hell out of the meet n greet parts of the Photowalk. Learned a lot about Nikon gear that I either didn't know or was misinformed about.

Again you missed the point, see above.:rolleyes:

[FlyingPhotog]

No, I shot some great images. The point I was trying to make is that Canon is starting to loose ground to Nikon. I didn't go out the next day and get a Nikon like so many have. A lot of people are switching to Nikon like the Megapixel lemmings that they are. Canon makes great cameras and probably always will, but they are losing market share to Nikon fast. I could give 2 $h*ts what anybody shoots, the camera doesn't make the photographer. Again the point that you missed was that Canon is losing the PR war.



Again you missed the point, see above.:rolleyes:

So you have vast holdings of Canon stock? Othwerwise, why is this so key to you?

[mattograph]

No, I shot some great images. The point I was trying to make is that Canon is starting to loose ground to Nikon. I didn't go out the next day and get a Nikon like so many have. A lot of people are switching to Nikon like the Megapixel lemmings that they are. Canon makes great cameras and probably always will, but they are losing market share to Nikon fast. I could give 2 $h*ts what anybody shoots, the camera doesn't make the photographer. Again the point that you missed was that Canon is losing the PR war.



Again you missed the point, see above.:rolleyes:

Man, with all respect, I don't agree.

First of all, as of the last figures released by CIPA, and reported in POP PHOTO, Canon has the best selling DSLR, the Rebel XTi. While occupying the number one spot, this camera was replaced not with one model, but two -- the Canon XS and the XSi. Both of these cameras have received GLOWING reviews, and I have yet to see a review that states that either of these cameras is inferior to ANY of its competition.

So, in the war for the hearts and mind (entry level buyers) Canon is winning.

Secondly, Nikon is getting smacked around in the Megapixel Wars. There is only one DSLR on the market that exceeds 20 Megapixels, and that belongs to Canon. Nikon just fired both barrels at Canon, and you have to add the sensor density of the D700 and the D3 together to get into Canon's range. While megapixels are only part of the story, their are many Medium Format shooters that are using the 1Ds -- point being its not a gimmick.

So, at the high end, Canon wins again.

Third -- the middle ground. The D3 is a formidable camera. I can definitely see how that camera is putting a REAL crimp in the 1D MK III market. Its a beast. God knows Canon and the AF issues haven't helped themselves out here.

The D300 -- great camera. The display alone would make someone put away the 40D as a choice, for only a few dollars more (relatively speaking).

And the D700? I still don't get this camera. Great build quality, fantastic AF, but basically equivalent to the 5D in sensor size, and regardless of the hype, similar IQ. The 5D is THREE years old. And $1000 CHEAPER!

That's not really a winning strategy.

In 2007s, Nikon cut into Canon's lead in the DSLR market. But Canon still leads.

And now its their turn.

[Pen6uiN]

I went on a Photo Walk this past weekend, and all I can say Canon better get their $h*T together. I have never seen so many Nikons, tons of D300's, and D3's. Out of 60 or so photographers at least 75% Nikon. 2 Years ago that # would have been reversed.

Canon has been really good at it's entry level (1000D & 40D, and now 50D) cameras & professional cameras (1D & 1Ds ranges)

But unfortunately recently Nikon has been "winning" with their D300 D700 D3 & because of the hype they are generating, Canon is "losing"

This is a normal cycle in DSLRs, there will be one company that will be winning in a certain period, then get leaped by another company.

This is how DSLRs technology can improve themselves & why there have been such a leap in the technology the last 2 years (proven by Canon 40D & 50D 12 months cycle, as oppose to a 18 months cycle).

[AinsworthPhoto]

Yes canon is wining the XTI/XSI entry level market.
What they are losing is the midlevel race, there are many, many more people jumping to Nikon for this level of camera. I saw a lot of XSI's and a lot of D300's last Saturday.
A few 40D's Nothing better than a 5D on the Canon side (I saw 1). Several D3's
Now when the 5D Mk II is available a bets are off. The 50D looks like it will be a step in the right direction; this is what the 40D should have been and Canon wouldn't have lost so many Lemmings to Nikon.

[mattograph]

Yes canon is wining the XTI/XSI entry level market.
What they are losing is the midlevel race, there are many, many more people jumping to Nikon for this level of camera. I saw a lot of XSI's and a lot of D300's last Saturday.
A few 40D's Nothing better than a 5D on the Canon side (I saw 1). Several D3's
Now when the 5D Mk II is available a bets are off. The 50D looks like it will be a step in the right direction; this is what the 40D should have been and Canon wouldn't have lost so many Lemmings to Nikon.

My experience was the opposite. Many more Canons than Nikons.

(of course, when I get to Disneyworld next month, I will be surrounded by the Noinks)

Out of curiosity, do you know anyone that has actually switched to Nikon for the D3 or the D700? I don't know a single soul. I am sure their are some out there, but I would bet the majority of these cameras get sold to folks with entry level Nikons.

[AinsworthPhoto]

Yes I know several and the same people are switching to MAC.
Lemmings just a bunch of PR lemmings.
Oh crap now I've gone and done it! :)

[fi20100]

Even though Canon might be king in the "entry" level with 1000D and 450D, I've started seeing a trend where more new dSLR users are buying a D300 or 40D as their first dSLR...

[Pen6uiN]

Out of curiosity, do you know anyone that has actually switched to Nikon for the D3 or the D700? I don't know a single soul. I am sure their are some out there, but I would bet the majority of these cameras get sold to folks with entry level Nikons.
if all lens are interchangeable in nikon/canon body, then i would make the switch to D700 now.

unfortunately i have invested in canon lens too much & cant afford to make the switch

[Ocean Blue]

if all lens are interchangeable in nikon/canon body, then i would make the switch to D700 now.

unfortunately i have invested in canon lens too much & cant afford to make the switch

Lenses have good resale value. ;)

[Joytek]

I would like it to have:

1. 16 bit capture (I love to post process to my hearts content, without any banding or other ill effects:-)

2. 11+ f-stop dynamic range (the world is so dark and bright at times)

3. native 12800 iso (so really clean and usable high isos)

4. better dust reduction/elimination method ....the
current ones in dslrs don't work well at all .... I read a detailed cross brand review somewhere about that, and only olympuses system even passed ..... and I am anal about dust on my 1D so I swab every time I see even one new spot ..... it is a tough obsession to live with :-)))

5. I don't care about mega pixels (am still shooting happily with a 1D mkII) so even 'just' 12 would be fine with me

6. more cross/extra sensetive focus points spread out to the edges of the frame ...... and of course contrast detect mode in LV mode.

7. 115% viewfinder (so showing more than the frame being captured (one of the nikons has that...don't remember which)

8. viewfinder magnification of 1 or more...plus an internal lighting for the viewfinder for night scene framing (so as to see the frame well in the dark)...and super-imposable grid lines (ala nikon)

9. OLED screen with minimum VGA res....and good anti glare coatings

10. infra-red remote .... I am tired of the short cable on my ancient one-button thing for the 1D :-)

11. virtual horizon (ala nikon) .... I hate not nailing the framing and having to straighten and crop in PS ....it's an allergic reaction not just a pet peeve :-)

12. 100% micro lens coverage with the lenses optimized for lenses that are not tele-centric .....so as to minimize color fringing.

13. of course weather sealing (like my trusty mk II)

14. movie mode is ok too

15. small charger .... the 1D model is RIDICULOUSLY huge, and I am so tired of traveling with that monstrosity :-)

16. .... I am sure that I am forgetting some other niffty thing but such is life....... ah, AF fine tunning of course.

....now I know that I am dreaming here, but that would be nice to have.

j.

[KayakPhotos]

Sounds like a pretty fair expectation list. I doubt that 12800 native ISO would be completely usable, especially with the increase in MP that I am expecting to see (probably around 21). I also would like to see something as simple as an IR port for remotes. It annoys me that I have to get either a third party wireless (the canon version is pretty sad) or some sort of cable for remote shooting. All the entry level cameras have this, and the remote costs around $10. They could still leave a port for a cable release even, to use with more advanced setups.