Wireless Transmitter for Canon 580

[canon shooter]

I am looking for a good wireless transmitter to control my Canon 580EX, and then let that trigger my White Lightening WL 5000 as a slave.

What are my choices? What luck are others having doing this?

I have looked at the Smith - Victor RTK-4 and the Canon ST-E2, which will work better for this and still work as ETTL?

Looks like the SV is much cheaper ($84 @B&H vs. $220 for Canon).

[tim]

If you try and trigger a studio strobe optically using ETTL the preflash will set of the strobe before the shutter's open. It doesn't work.

If you want ETTL for your 580 you'll need a cord or radio slave for the strobe, which has to be in manual. I use skyports (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/505381-REG/Elinchrom_EL_19360_EL_Skyport_Universal_Radio_Slav e.html/BI/2312/KBID/3114), hooked up via the PC port of the camera.

[canon shooter]

Good point.

But if I use one of these two transmitters and use 580 in manual, assume it would work and it will fire studio flash as slave?

Just won't be able to us ETTL??

[tim]

Yep 580 in manual mode will trigger it. Using that transmitter with the radio system and the flash in ETTL or manual will be fine too.

[canon shooter]

Yep 580 in manual mode will trigger it. Using that transmitter with the radio system and the flash in ETTL or manual will be fine too.OK now trying to decide between the Canon ST-E2, the Skyport, or the Pocket wizard Plus II. But still have some questions.

I THINK the Canon ST-E2 will only control a Canon Flash, not the studio flash. But I know the 580EX could be on Master and studio on Slave, but don't think I could use it to control the studio without the canon 580??

I think the Skyport comes with both transmitter and receiver so I could use it to control either 580 or studio flash, but sounds like it does not come with cable for 580 (but does for studio).

Not sure how the PocketWizard works. Looks like it only has one piece, so will it control or trigger either the 580 or studio??

[tim]

ST-E2 will only control Canon EX flashes. If you use wireless ETTL then the preflash will trigger the studio strobes before the shutter is open. In manual they'll be fine, they'll trigger the studio flash fine. I don't know why you'd be using ETTL at the same time as a studio strobe anyway.

The skyport kit comes with a transmitter and receiver. With this in the PC port you could use wireless ETTL with the receiver on the studio strobe. You can get a hotshoe to 3.5mm plug from flash zebra or from B&H (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/421306-REG/Paramount_PMMHSF1_Miniphone_to_Female_Hot.html/BI/2312/KBID/3114) pretty cheaply.

[O3DigitalBath]

Not sure how the PocketWizard works. Looks like it only has one piece, so will it control or trigger either the 580 or studio??

Yes, it will fire either. You would have to buy one for the camera, then one for every flash you want it to fire (or use splitter cords, not always recommended)

If you decide to go with one of the wireless trigger options as opposed to the ST-E2 you will lose your ettl (auto), but will gain distance and reliability. The infared systems work well in line of sight (sometimes can bounce off walls). In exchange you will gain distance and reliability. Also as far as I know you can't trigger a stuido flash with the infared (could be wrong, this wouldn't be hard to make..but i'm sure it wouldn't work with ettl either)

Alienbee's cybersyncs and the skyports are a bit cheaper solutions. I'vear heard great things about the skyports but havn't used them and can't speak from any experience. I'm currently using the cybersync's with 430ex and I coudln't be happier.

[canon shooter]

ST-E2 will only control Canon EX flashes. If you use wireless ETTL then the preflash will trigger the studio strobes before the shutter is open. In manual they'll be fine, they'll trigger the studio flash fine. I don't know why you'd be using ETTL at the same time as a studio strobe anyway.

The skyport kit comes with a transmitter and receiver. With this in the PC port you could use wireless ETTL with the receiver on the studio strobe. You can get a hotshoe to 3.5mm plug from flash zebra or from B&H (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/421306-REG/Paramount_PMMHSF1_Miniphone_to_Female_Hot.html/BI/2312/KBID/3114) pretty cheaply.Well if I shoot in Manual and use Flash meter for exosure with the Canon ST-E2, it should trigger the 580 fine and if the 580 is in "Master" mode, it should trigger the studio??

On the Skyport sound like it comes with cable to plug directly into studio without any computer being involved?? Then the 580 could be in "Slave" mode and it would be triggered by the studio??

Sorry to ask so many questions but want to make sure I buy the right product so that I can trigger the the 580 and/or the studio

[O3DigitalBath]

Well if I shoot in Manual and use Flash meter for exosure with the Canon ST-E2, it should trigger the 580 fine and if the 580 is in "Master" mode, it should trigger the studio??

On the Skyport sound like it comes with cable to plug directly into studio without any computer being involved?? Then the 580 could be in "Slave" mode and it would be triggered by the studio??

Sorry to ask so many questions but want to make sure I buy the right product so that I can trigger the the 580 and/or the studio

skyport should plug into any of the flashes (adapter might be required) and that will trigger it. If its plugged into the 580 and the studio has a optical slave built in then yes it would fire, if not it would need a receiver as well.

[O3DigitalBath]

just looked up the White Lightening WL 5000...looks like it does have a optical slave built in.

so for expample if you put the skyport transmitter on your camera, then plugged the receiver into your flash...when that flash fires (580ex) it should fire your studio (wl5000).

If you later on wanted to get another skyport, if you plugged that in it would disable the optical slave on the WL5000 and would be triggered by the skyport (better range and reliability)

[PacAce]

Well if I shoot in Manual and use Flash meter for exosure with the Canon ST-E2, it should trigger the 580 fine and if the 580 is in "Master" mode, it should trigger the studio??

On the Skyport sound like it comes with cable to plug directly into studio without any computer being involved?? Then the 580 could be in "Slave" mode and it would be triggered by the studio??

Sorry to ask so many questions but want to make sure I buy the right product so that I can trigger the the 580 and/or the studio

Canon ETTL wireless remote and optical slave triggering do not mix, even if the EX flash is operated in manual mode. The reason is because the ST-E2 or the master flash will prematurely trigger the studio strobes. The only way to prevent this is to trigger the EX flash with an RF remote (i.e. SkyPort, PW, etc.) or a sync cable.

[canon shooter]

ST-E2 will only control Canon EX flashes. If you use wireless ETTL then the preflash will trigger the studio strobes before the shutter is open. In manual they'll be fine, they'll trigger the studio flash fine. I don't know why you'd be using ETTL at the same time as a studio strobe anyway.

The skyport kit comes with a transmitter and receiver. With this in the PC port you could use wireless ETTL with the receiver on the studio strobe. You can get a hotshoe to 3.5mm plug from flash zebra or from B&H (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/421306-REG/Paramount_PMMHSF1_Miniphone_to_Female_Hot.html/BI/2312/KBID/3114) pretty cheaply.Tim, can you use the 3.5mm plug to fire the 580 in ETTL or manual?

[tim]

I've never tried wireless ETTL in manual, but I bet Pacace is right. I have used strobes and 580's together, but all triggered using skyports.

[tim]

Tim, can you use the 3.5mm plug to fire the 580 in ETTL or manual?

Any slave of any type, studio or speedlite, can only operate in manual when ratio slaves are used. RadioPoppers are the only exception I know of, as they're not a simple radio slave.

[canon shooter]

If you try and trigger a studio strobe optically using ETTL the preflash will set of the strobe before the shutter's open. It doesn't work.

If you want ETTL for your 580 you'll need a cord or radio slave for the strobe, which has to be in manual. I use skyports (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/505381-REG/Elinchrom_EL_19360_EL_Skyport_Universal_Radio_Slav e.html/BI/2312/KBID/3114), hooked up via the PC port of the camera.Tim, so the set up you are talking about here is a Skyport on camera with receiver on studio, and then the 580 in Slave??

Assume with this set up you use a flash meter??

[Titus213]

Alien Bees Cybersync wireless - works, cheap, comes with cables for ABs and a 580EXII. You'd need to add a cable for the 580EX.

[O3DigitalBath]

^ i'm with him on the cybersync idea...like I said before its what i'm currently using.

I've never heard of the infared system setting off optical slave. I know a few nikon guys doing something simlar but had never heard them mention issues...

[PacAce]

Tim, so the set up you are talking about here is a Skyport on camera with receiver on studio, and then the 580 in Slave??

Assume with this set up you use a flash meter??
Just make sure that all the strobes are being triggered via the Skyport and none are triggered optically.

[canon shooter]

Alien Bees Cybersync wireless - works, cheap, comes with cables for ABs and a 580EXII. You'd need to add a cable for the 580EX.Well everyone has good things to say about the Cybersync. If I were to go this route, and use it to trigger the 580EX, in Master and let it trigger the studio. I would need a CST transmitter and then would I get a CSR receiver or would it be better for a CSRB receiver? Plus you say I would need a cable for the 580EX, What type of cable would I need and guess the 580EX and 580EXII cable set up must be different??? Assume the cable that comes with it that works in ABs would also fit my White Lightening WL5000?

And does the transmitter (that fits in camera hotshoe) need to be ordered for camera or is it universal?

[Titus213]

Bottom up:

The transmitter is universal hotshoe mounted, no cable ability native.
I went with the battery units to get away from the need for AC. I had the original RFT1s from AB and took advantage of a $40 credit each toward the upgrade to the Cybersyncs.
Not sure about the White Lightening plug but suspect they are the same.
The 580EX II has a PC port on it though using it, so I've read, creates other strange behavior. The 580EX just needs a hotshoe with PC capability since it doesn't have a PC port. I use a 550EX and a 430EX and use these to attach my Cybersyncs: http://www.flashzebra.com/hotshoes-shoes/0065.shtml The Cybersyncs came with the cable to attach to this hotshoe.

[canon shooter]

Bottom up:

The transmitter is universal hotshoe mounted, no cable ability native.
I went with the battery units to get away from the need for AC. I had the original RFT1s from AB and took advantage of a $40 credit each toward the upgrade to the Cybersyncs.
Not sure about the White Lightening plug but suspect they are the same.
The 580EX II has a PC port on it though using it, so I've read, creates other strange behavior. The 580EX just needs a hotshoe with PC capability since it doesn't have a PC port. I use a 550EX and a 430EX and use these to attach my Cybersyncs: http://www.flashzebra.com/hotshoes-shoes/0065.shtml The Cybersyncs came with the cable to attach to this hotshoe.Dave, thanks for your input. I bought the Cybersyncs, should be here in a few days.

Thanks

[s8langwo]

Please help me understand.

I've used my ST-E2 to trigger both 580EX and 430EX units in manual mode. I guess I kinda assumed they would only produce one flash when in manual. I've used a 430EX in manual in the camera's hotshoe to successfully trigger optical slaves in the past.

It sounds like the manual setting on the speedlights when used in conjunction with an ST-E2 can produce a pre-flash? Is it caused by the IR signal from the ST-E2?

Thanks,
Kevin

[CliveyBoy]

There can be two visible emissions using the ST-E2. One is the autofocus assist light through one of the red lenses, if the camera decides it is needed, and this is what you may be seeing.

The other is the low-powered exposure evaluation preflash from the flash head. It is followed by the main flash so fast, that it is rarely distinguishable. As you are taking over the flash exposure, the preflash is not required.

[canon shooter]

Bottom up:

The transmitter is universal hotshoe mounted, no cable ability native.
I went with the battery units to get away from the need for AC. I had the original RFT1s from AB and took advantage of a $40 credit each toward the upgrade to the Cybersyncs.
Not sure about the White Lightening plug but suspect they are the same.
The 580EX II has a PC port on it though using it, so I've read, creates other strange behavior. The 580EX just needs a hotshoe with PC capability since it doesn't have a PC port. I use a 550EX and a 430EX and use these to attach my Cybersyncs: http://www.flashzebra.com/hotshoes-shoes/0065.shtml The Cybersyncs came with the cable to attach to this hotshoe.Just got my CyberSyncs and have not had much time to play with set up yet but, it appears you can not use with just the 580EX in ETTL mode. It is way overexposured when I try it this way. And the instructions say it will NOT work in TTL mode. I thought when I read all of these posts prior that if I used the CyberSyncs with just the 580EX I would be able to use ETTL, but if used with 580EX as Master and WL5000 as Slave I would be in manual.

Did I miss something??

[canon shooter]

Also found my old flash meter, that I have not used for 20 years. It is a Minolta IIIF. Assume this meter should work fine with 40D and flash set up of 580EX and WL5000. The seting on meter is for ASA (flim speed) but assume that is going to be the exact same as ISO. EX and ASA setting on meter of 100 would equal a ISO setting on 40D of 100??

Any problems with using this on digital camera set up.

[da_teacher]

Dave, thanks for your input. I bought the Cybersyncs, should be here in a few days.

Thanks

How much did they run you?

[Titus213]

Just got my CyberSyncs and have not had much time to play with set up yet but, it appears you can not use with just the 580EX in ETTL mode. It is way overexposured when I try it this way. And the instructions say it will NOT work in TTL mode. I thought when I read all of these posts prior that if I used the CyberSyncs with just the 580EX I would be able to use ETTL, but if used with 580EX as Master and WL5000 as Slave I would be in manual.

Did I miss something??

Evidently you did. Any radio transmitter with the exception of the Radio Poppers use the flash in manual mode. The radio trigger transmits only a fire command.

How much did they run you?

They are only available at www.alienbees.com. $60 for a transmitter, $70 for the receiver.

[canon shooter]

Evidently you did. Any radio transmitter with the exception of the Radio Poppers use the flash in manual mode. The radio trigger transmits only a fire command.



They are only available at www.alienbees.com (http://www.alienbees.com). $60 for a transmitter, $70 for the receiver.Dave, thanks and as you can tell I using this set up for the 1st time. When you use the 580EX this way in manual mode, and get reading with flash meter do you make any other + or - adjustment on 580EX

[da_teacher]

They are only available at www.alienbees.com (http://www.alienbees.com). $60 for a transmitter, $70 for the receiver.

Dang, so $200 for two receivers and a transmitter? Can't afford that...just bought a 580EXII, two Sunpaks, some stands, etc....was going to use my cousin's Cactus triggers for the time being but they seemed to have died!!!

[Titus213]

Dave, thanks and as you can tell I using this set up for the 1st time. When you use the 580EX this way in manual mode, and get reading with flash meter do you make any other + or - adjustment on 580EX

Yes, I adjust my 550EX and 430EX with the power adjustment capability of their manual mode. The same would hold true with your 580EX. In manual mode your distance will also 'adjust' the light.

[Titus213]

Dang, so $200 for two receivers and a transmitter? Can't afford that...just bought a 580EXII, two Sunpaks, some stands, etc....was going to use my cousin's Cactus triggers for the time being but they seemed to have died!!!

I fully understand that. If I hadn't bought into the Alien Bees RFT1 transmitters last year I could not afford the Cybersyncs either.;) The offer a year later to basically refund all of that purchase price allowed me to upgrade to 2 transmitters and 3 receivers for $170.

[canon shooter]

Yes, I adjust my 550EX and 430EX with the power adjustment capability of their manual mode. The same would hold true with your 580EX. In manual mode your distance will also 'adjust' the light.Dave, hate to be a pest, but sounds like you have already figured it all out. And honestly I have never used 580 in manual. Have always used on camera with camerar in manual (of fill flash) , but 580 in ETTL.

Now if I use flash meter and adjust camera for meter reading do I need to do anything with 580 other than put in manual and shoot? I will most likely shoot into umbrella not straight on, but that will be figured into the flash meter reading.

And assume if I use WL5000 as slave and set to 1/3 or 1/2 power and take flash meter reading with both units firing the results will show that there is a main light and secondard and not try to exposure to make the lighting even.

Does that make any sense??

[Titus213]

Basically set up your lights, determine your key/main light and your fill position, meter them one at a time adjusting the light to your selected f-stop. Your fill will be lower than your key which gives your ratios. The meter will do nothing but tell you how much light you are putting on your subject.

Here is a good video that describes what you do. Your 580EX should be treated like another studio strobe in the mix as far as adjusting goes. Move the power up/down based on what you need.

http://sekonic.wordpress.com/2008/03/11/digital-photography-1-on-1-episode-2/

[canon shooter]

Basically set up your lights, determine your key/main light and your fill position, meter them one at a time adjusting the light to your selected f-stop. Your fill will be lower than your key which gives your ratios. The meter will do nothing but tell you how much light you are putting on your subject.

Here is a good video that describes what you do. Your 580EX should be treated like another studio strobe in the mix as far as adjusting goes. Move the power up/down based on what you need.

http://sekonic.wordpress.com/2008/03/11/digital-photography-1-on-1-episode-2/Dave you seem to have this down.

I did watch video and will need to watch again (and again and again).

Anyway when you say to to meter the lights one at a time, I lose you there. If I read the main light ...then I put camera on f-stop the meter says?? If so and I then read the fill light what do I do to the camera.

My meter can take two reading and average will that work, or will that just adjust the overall light lighter or darker??

[Titus213]

At 5:25 into the video he describes metering each light. Use your meter to SET your lights to the f-stop you want. Set your main light, then your fill to the f-stop you want (based on your reading from the meter). Then turn both lights on, take a reading with your meter from both lights and set your camera to that reading.

[canon shooter]

Wow the more I get into this and the more research I try to do on this the more confused I seem to get.

I have watch video over and over again. It says when using two or more flashed to use flash meter to read each flash and set each flash based on that reading. This still confuses me, if I fire main flash and get an reading of f 8. How do I set the 580 or for that matter my WL5000 to a given f-stop?

I understand if I use only one flash and the meter reads f8 I would set camera at f8. But with 2 and videos saying to set the flash based on meter reading I am lost.

[canon shooter]

40D manual says the sync speed for compact flash is 1/250, but for studio flash it is 1/60.

What shutter speed do I set on camera if using the 580EX and a WL5000. I would assume 1/250???

[canon shooter]

Should have also said I am using an old flash meter that is from film days. It has ASA settings not ISO. is 100 ISO the same as 100 ASA

[Titus213]

It won't cost anything to try. I generally use 125 on my 20D.