Civil rights indeed

[440roadrunner]

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/Conventions/story?id=5668622&page=1

http://i34.tinypic.com/23wslk4.jpg

[hawkeye60]

Just my opinion... But, this country is becoming more like a police state. It's very alarming.

[S.Horton]

There is Police power -- it is real. I wonder if anything else happened.

[nicksan]

There are always 2 sides to a story.
We have 1 side...let's wait until the other side comes in.

Sounds like perhaps this reporter has some "history" in that area...

[S.Horton]

....exactly

[smcclelland]

What's the problem though? He was taking photos on a "public sidewalk" according to the news report and by the looks of it he's in a public street. By definition he's no different than if there was a civilian standing there snapping photos as well unless his camera crew was drawing attention or being hostile.

Sounds like another lawsuit about to make its way through the judicial system against police overstepping their boundaries.

[nicksan]

Sure, because we know that photographers NEVER overstep any boundary...

What's the problem though? He was taking photos on a "public sidewalk" according to the news report and by the looks of it he's in a public street. By definition he's no different than if there was a civilian standing there snapping photos as well unless his camera crew was drawing attention or being hostile.

Sounds like another lawsuit about to make its way through the judicial system against police overstepping their boundaries.

[smcclelland]

Well there's a fine line as a photographer that you hope people don't cross and that's usually covered by laws (at least here it is) such as:

1) you cannot photograph children in public without permission from their guardian.
2) you cannot invade one's privacy by photographing into their home or place of work

We have laws against some public buildings but it is generally easy going.

Now if these politicians were out in the general public then again I ask, what is the problem? Was the photographer pressing the security boundaries? Was he obstructing traffic? Was his film crew obstructing a fire route? Fire hydrant?

As an officer of the law you are given the badge as a privilege, not as a right. I'm not siding either way on this because it's obvious both sides have large gaps in their stories so as I said, the judicial system will work this out and we'll see whether it is another "i have a badge therefore I will exercise my power at will whenever I want" cases.

[stathunter]

I have personally emailed and called several people on this. Here is a response I rec'd from the Brown Palace Hotel who called the Denver Police:

"Unfortunately there are various inaccuracies being reported about this issue. We have worked with hundreds of journalists with no issues. The ABC news cameras were intruding on the entrance of the hotel, creating an unsafe entrance/exit for our guests, which are our priority at all times. The police department asked them to move to the side several times so that our guests could enter/exit, and ABC refused. ABC was clearly told that they could stand on the sidewalk but it is illegal to block an entrance to any business, which is what they were doing. After not complying with the police requests, they were then asked to move to the other side of the street. It is our understanding that ABC continued to speak belligerently to the police and were arrested for not complying with police orders. The arrest resulted from issues between the police and ABC, not The Brown Palace Hotel."

[S.Horton]

....thought so

[smcclelland]

Well in that case it is certainly well deserved.

[hawkeye60]

The video can be seen here:
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/Conventions/story?id=5668622&page=1

[PhotoJourno]

And though called photographers (earned each bit of it and more), TV camera crews are not nearly as fluid and mobile as a press photog. Meaning you can stand in the way, snap one shot, by the time Sgt. Chubs there gives you a twisted look, you seem worried you crossed some invisible boundary, and apologizing you move away.

With a TV, specially if you are settin up a live shot, or waiting for the right few seconds of footage, there are at least two to three people standing in the way. So it does feel much more intrusive -hey, it's the perks of each venue- with the TV cameras.

With that being said, I bring up what one of my ex Lt's has said a thousand times, and I have seen true to the last dot of it. "Don't make excuses for bad cops". There's always the shady situation where a peace officer is given to guard a person or place, and his authority and power are way oversized for this task. They tend to step out of the box. The not so good cops, anyways.

There are two sides of the story, usually logistics are just as -or more- important than rights. This is a good case study for seminars and workshops. But that's it.

[After watching video: The journalist is between the entrance of the place, and the black service cars. The Sgt (Good or Bad) simply starts pushing the producer towards the opposite side of the street. what does this mean? Number one, the producer was denied access for some reason. He was subsequently told to go to the other side of the street. He does not like it, so he starts making his calls, hoping the station can get things cleared (because some admin got the wrong information as to when and where check in for TV news crews). The Sgt reacts as you see in camera, because he probably told them to move two or three times before. And yes, you can see there's a full crew there, at least three or four guys with ABC. One thing I do know. A cop would have to be mighty desirous to lose his badge, to pull a stunt like this (where Lieutenants and Captains are often present, if just for show). So my initial response remains. There are bad cops out there, but this could have been one producer having a bad day.]

[S.Horton]

Interesting video.......

[Kraig C]

"we do whatever we want, to whomever we want, at all times" shoot first ask questions later.

[PhotoJourno]

"we do whatever we want, to whomever we want, at all times" shoot first ask questions later.

huh?

[FlyingPhotog]

One of the factors at work is that they've designated the political convention in Denver and Minneapolis as "National Special Security Events" which signficantly broadens the scope of both responsibility and requirement for local law enforcement (as well as Federal and State.)

I see this kind of mindset at major sporting events like the Super Bowl (which also fall under the NSSE blanket) where the security folk get this "Not On My Watch" mentality.

They'd much rather step on your toes than have to explain later to their superiors why someone was somewhere doing something they shouldn't have been allowed to do.

This still shouldn't be an excuse for bad behavior but it does seem to make some security people think they can strap on a bigger pair because Uncle Sam has their back.

[PhotoJourno]

One of the factors at work is that they've designated the political convention in Denver and Minneapolis as "National Special Security Events" which signficantly broadens the scope of both responsibility and requirement for local law enforcement (as well as Federal and State.)

He-- yeah!!.. I once went to see an ex-president speak in the local campus, and I had to check my gear in at least 3hs prior to the event.

[FlyingPhotog]

He-- yeah!!.. I once went to see an ex-president speak in the local campus, and I had to check my gear in at least 3hs prior to the event.

Unbelieveable isn't it?

No intention of debating this with anyone but while I don't particularly care to vote for the most recently nominated candidate, the thought of the other guy winning scares me to death.

A sitting President being from the state where I live and who'd spend his R&R time in one of our most beautiful and photogenic places (Sedona)?

Please God No!!!

The 30 mile Temporary Flight Restrictions (over PHX when he arrives or departs as well as Sedona)
Thousands of local, state and federal security
Thousands of local, state, national and international media
Potentially tens of thousands of Protesters at any given moment

Hey Illinois, frankly, you can have all this sh*t... :rolleyes:

[kona77]

There is NO way anyone can make any statement of fact without watching the entire video. We do not know about their conduct prior to the starting of the clip or how many times they were asked to move. We also do not know the conduct of the cop during the ENTIRE event.

I work with news camera crews at events all the time and most of the time they are very pushy with a priviledge mentality. They will ruin your shot for a 6 second clip while your long form shoot will be ruined.

No matter what the profession there are always a few bad apples, ie, cops but I can guarantee that those speaking ill will of all cops will be the first ones to call the cops when they have a problem.

[smcclelland]

No matter what the profession there are always a few bad apples, ie, cops but I can guarantee that those speaking ill will of all cops will be the first ones to call the cops when they have a problem.

Nobody here is speaking ill of the police by what I've read, but as PhotoJourno pointed out there are bad seeds scattered throughout the police force across the world. My father was an officer for 26 years, 22 spent as a street cop and 4 spent as an undercover crime force officer with a tactical unit; I have nothing bad to say about the police however I know there are people who get the badge for all the wrong reasons and think that their actions will have no consequences because they represent the law.

[440roadrunner]

There is NO way anyone can make any statement of fact without watching the entire video. .


What I saw is a man, apparrently non violent, and no mention of things like spitting on someone, BEING GRABBED BY THE THROAT by a cop.

I'll tell you SOMETHING. If a cop EVER decides to grab my throat, he'd better have one HELL of a good reason

[PhotoJourno]

Here's the deal. Let's read the Lead for the article, it is seen right there in the OP.

First, it was a private meeting.
Then, it was held in a hotel.
Also, it was US Senators, VIP Donors, and Lobbyists.
The camera crew was 'attempting' to get some footage.

One thing can be learned from the video without a doubt. Only the producer is arrested. The guy with the camera (usually first one to go down) is not being bothered -except for a couple of warnings to shut his gear down-.

If you're gonna go to one of these shindigs and try to get some footage of VIP Political donors, get in the right frame of mind. Realize it is not a "Oh I have my rights" situation where your credential leaves you untouchable (hey, I am not saying it's fair, I am not saying it's right, but I am assuming the producer's job was to get in, get footage, get out).

Is as it says in the Street Photographer's Guidebook:

"If you are going to photograph semi-nude celebrities inside their home from the woods, it is recommended you leave your Gucci Orange outfit at home". ;)

[PhotoJourno]

I think something similar happened in a movie I saw.

Vito Corleone- "Eh, Carlo, I see you have brought an uninvited guest to our five famiglia meeting, can you please introduce him?"
Carlo- "Yes, Signore Corleone, this is-a my cousin Johnny, from Boston. He is-a photographer. He is with-a me, today".
Barzini- "A photographer? Are you Loco, bambino? We bring all five families from the US into the woods for a meeting and you want to bring a photographer? would you like my social security number too? ahh?"
Carlo- "Not to worry, dear friends, Johnny has got what they call a Credential, it is a Press pass..C'mon Johnny show it to them..we are all so proud of johhny, specially mamma, she is-a making meatsaball-e pasta for when we get home".
Commissioner- [Mutters to Corleone] "****e, this man does have a press pass. I am not sure what the rules are, godfather, but it could come back to bite us in the arse".
Corleone- [nods slightly at the Commissioners comment] "mmmh, you might be right, commissioner. But there is nothing we can do, [gets up and talks aloud getting everyone's attention] for this man right here -points at johnny- cannot be touched, he now has my promise. And who would want to dishonor me with breaking my promises"

[FlyingPhotog]

Here's the deal. Let's read the Lead for the article, it is seen right there in the OP.

First, it was a private meeting.
Then, it was held in a hotel.
Also, it was US Senators, VIP Donors, and Lobbyists.
The camera crew was 'attempting' to get some footage.

One thing can be learned from the video without a doubt. Only the producer is arrested. The guy with the camera (usually first one to go down) is not being bothered -except for a couple of warnings to shut his gear down-.

If you're gonna go to one of these shindigs and try to get some footage of VIP Political donors, get in the right frame of mind. Realize it is not a "Oh I have my rights" situation where your credential leaves you untouchable (hey, I am not saying it's fair, I am not saying it's right, but I am assuming the producer's job was to get in, get footage, get out).

Is as it says in the Street Photographer's Guidebook:

"If you are going to photograph semi-nude celebrities inside their home from the woods, it is recommended you leave your Gucci Orange outfit at home". ;)

If this was for World News Tonight I'd buy it but if this was for one of their "magazine" shows, I'll bet you a dollar his job was to get right up in people's grills about lobbying and special intrest contributions to political parties.

Sounds to me like they didn't want to give potential interviewees the chance to set even one foot outside the hotel before trying to get 'em on tape.

[400dabuser]

That news item is quite shocking, looks like freedom of speech is being hampered in a country where freedom of speech is a key element in the USA

[FlyingPhotog]

That news item is quite shocking, looks like freedom of speech is being hampered in a country where freedom of speech is a key element in the USA

You missed the part where the camera crew were blocking a public entrance...

Don't like to see the police get heavy handed but by the same token I'm embarrased for my profession (I work in TV) when producers act like asses...

[400dabuser]

You missed the part where the camera crew were blocking a public entrance...

Don't like to see the police get heavy handed but by the same token I'm embarrased for my profession (I work in TV) when producers act like asses...


Maybe, but wasn't he arrested for his investigations into the Senator? I know some journalist can be annoying, but that's part of their job description isn't it?file:///F:/2008%2008%2025/Carnival%20Band.jpg

[FlyingPhotog]

Maybe, but wasn't he arrested for his investigations into the Senator? I know some journalist can be annoying, but that's part of their job description isn't it?file:///F:/2008%2008%2025/Carnival%20Band.jpg

AFAIK, he was charged with obstructing a public thoroughfare and failure to obey a police officer.

[LBaldwin]

What you may not realize is that the entire area including that hotel were under the jurisdiction and control of the US Secret Service. It was what is called a NSSE or National Special Security Event.

A whole new set of rules. http://www.dhs.gov/xnews/releases/pr_1219416095765.shtm


Also this is what has been released via email to many journilists from the Brown Hotel.

"Unfortunately there are various inaccuracies being reported about
this issue. We have worked with hundreds of journalists with no
issues. The ABC news cameras were intruding on the entrance of the
hotel, creating an unsafe entrance/exit for our guests, which are our
priority at all times. The police department asked them to move to
the side several times so that our guests could enter/exit, and ABC
refused. ABC was clearly told that they could stand on the sidewalk
but it is illegal to block an entrance to any business, which is what
they were doing. After not complying with the police requests, they
were then asked to move to the other side of the street. It is our
understanding that ABC was arrested for not complying with police
orders. The arrest resulted from issues between the police and ABC,
not The Brown Palace Hotel."

I have other infomation that The Brown Palace Hotel signed a complaint for the Police to force the Video crew from in front of the doors, and that they did it for the police. But the Hotel also claims that they purchased areas of sidewalk in front of the doors from the City of Denver so it is in fact private property.

And so it continues....