Looking for some pointers for shooting birds in flight

[Ken_from_MD]

I will be going on my first outing to photograph birds in a couple of weeks. For those that know the area I will be going to Hawk Mountain, PA to watch the migrating hawks and eagles. In addition to the equipment in my signature I will be renting a 100-400L. I've read the stickies and will be practicing some of those techniques as much as I can prior to the trip. Is there anything else I should try, be aware of, avoid?

[TooManyShots]

I think you should try practicing on the Seagulls first (something that is slower and easier to approach). Get the feel how responsive the AI-Servo focus mode on the XSI. And learn to pan while keeping the focus point on the subject. Remember to assign the "*" for AF lock if you haven't done so. One thing I find it challenging is to properly expose the underside of the subject. They are above you, in the air.

I will be going on my first outing to photograph birds in a couple of weeks. For those that know the area I will be going to Hawk Mountain, PA to watch the migrating hawks and eagles. In addition to the equipment in my signature I will be renting a 100-400L. I've read the stickies and will be practicing some of those techniques as much as I can prior to the trip. Is there anything else I should try, be aware of, avoid?

[jack lumber]

If you want to freeze wingtips use 1000 plus shutter speed, dont be afraid to bump the ISO. Dont forget to turn IS switch to 2 mode for panning.

[canonloader]

Rent a 400/5.6 instead. The zoom is slow to focus, almost 1 full second for the IS to spin up. Are you going to be shooting birds from 15 feet or less? Then rent the zoom, but the prime will get you more keepers for a birding noob. Use center point focus, Av Mode, AI Servo and probably start with ISO 400. :)

[Ed Rotberg]

I agree with everything Mitch laid out. Since you are just renting, and since you will be renting for the single purpose of birds in flight, get the 400 f/5.6L instead of the zoom. It will not only focus faster, it's also actually a touch longer than the 100-400, and it's sharp wide open.

You will be shooting in AV mode, wide open (unless you get very close and need to stop down for DOF) in order to get the highest shutter speed possible. I'd start with the ISO at 400 but watch the shutter speed, and change the ISO if you need more shutter speed. Try to keep it over 1/1000 and you should do fine. IS won't help much for BIF with a 400.

If you find yourself on a day with very consistent lighting, you might want to note the shutter speed that you are getting and switch to Manual mode. I have yet to meet an automatic metering mode that doesn't get fooled from time to time, and although they are very, very good, if you know the lighting and it's not changing - why bother?

Have fun, good luck, and post some pix when you get back!

= Ed =

[marjnap]

I have to third what Mitch said. I have rented the 300 f/4 and the 400 f/5.6, and the IS on the 300 I found doesn't help and not long enough. The 400 f/5.6 worked great, but you have to bounce up the ISO in bad lighting conditions. Good luck and share the shots when you get back. :)

[PhotosGuy]

You will be shooting in AV mode, I don't recommend that. Here's why: Post #47 (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showpost.php?p=5191658&postcount=47)

The light "up there" will be the same as the light down where you are, so why get involved with EC if you don't need to?
For a good starting point, first set the f-stop & shutter speed you need for the effect you want. Then the other parameter; f-stop & shutter speed. Then adjust the ISO.
Need an exposure crutch? (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=89123) I think you should try practicing on the Seagulls first Great tip! Sometimes another intermediate step helps, so try cars in traffic close to you as a good "tune up" before the seagulls.

[Ed Rotberg]

You will be shooting in AV mode,I don't recommend that. Here's why: Post #47 (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showpost.php?p=5191658&postcount=47)

Taken a bit out of context, methinks. If you read further in my post, I indicated that if the light was constant, Manual would be preferable. Shooting Manual, does require, however, attention to changing light. I think that this might be a bit much for a BIF newbie to deal with along with everything else for a first time out. Art Morris, whose work I greatly admire, also recommends AV mode. The key with AV mode is that you can open the lens up (hopefully it's sharp wide open) and get the fastest possible shutter speed.

FWIW, I shoot in Manual mode myself (unless there are scattered clouds constantly moving causing the light to change continually). For me, it's not a big deal to check the histogram and the metering every few minutes and make adjustments. There are many advantages to Manual - BUT, for the novice BIF photographer, I think it's probably too much to deal with - at least at first.

I would also note, that your "exposure crutch" is a bit more difficult with a long lens on your camera. What I have used instead, and what has worked very well, is green foliage. Typically something about the same shade as grass in the appropriate lighting, will work well. Then of course you want to check the histogram from time to time. I will agree however, that with a shorter lens, a hand is another good constant reference.

All IMHO, YMMV.

= Ed =

[tonylong]

I agree that when possible Manual exposure will give consistent results and will help to avoid the bane of the camera exposing for a bright sky and underexposing the bird. Bad thing! Sometimes Av makes sense, but in a setting with consistent light and a consistent angle/view in relation to the sun, Manual will do better.

[canonloader]

I think that this might be a bit much for a BIF newbie to deal with along with everything else for a first time out.
Amen.

I am old enough that when I started with my first SLR, an old Pentax, there was no other option than Manual. I hated it then, I hate it now. Not because I do not understand settings and what each one does, but because chips can do it faster, and now better than I ever could. And let's face it, Av Mode is just one dial position away from manual Mode, in more ways than one. Av Mode is a BIF shooters friend, no matter what the light. :)

[breal101]

Jake, aka CDS, may come along and offer some pointers. He has some fantastic BIF shots. Just don't mention 1D MK III, oops I just did.

[tonylong]

I do agree that Av is a good practical approach for especially a beginner, and can be the best approach when the lighting is dim or changing. However, birds against a light/bright sky will tend to cause grief in Av or Tv or whatever, unless you learn to compensate. So, some of this can depend on the conditions -- this summer, I've been all over Manual exposure, but in the late fall/winter/early spring Av has treated me very nicely.

[PhotosGuy]

Taken a bit out of context, methinks. If you read further in my post, Yes, you did. Yours wasn't the first recommendation for Av, but the one I used to quote. Don't take it personally. ;) BUT, for the novice BIF photographer, I think it's probably too much to deal with - at least at first. I offered a way (Adjusting the ISO) in the thread for clouds. I think that's simpler than trying to get comfortable with EC as a beginner. I would also note, that your "exposure crutch" is a bit more difficult with a long lens on your camera. What I have used instead, and what has worked very well, is green foliage. A bit more difficult, yes, but, also addressed in the thread is the fact that your hand doesn't need to be in focus. Another option I mention is that you could shoot white paper on the ground. Finally, also addressed is the use of grass/trees on the site, as they aren't a constant value everywhere & you should recalibrate before you use them. The key with AV mode is that you can open the lens up (hopefully it's sharp wide open) and get the fastest possible shutter speed. As written, that makes no sense at all. I'm sure that you were trying to say something else. Av Mode is a BIF shooters friend, no matter what the light. True for an experienced shooter whose very comfortable with EC. I've offered manual as a less complicated option, knowing that we'd end up going through this.

[Ken_from_MD]

Thanks all for the pointers. I've got more reading to do and some practicing to get in. I went with the 100-400 zoom as it is a lens I've thought of purchasing and thought I would try it out first. I understand the reasonings for going with a prime, but for now I want something with a little more flexibility. If birding turns out to be something I really like and will get a chance to do then I will save up for a 400 or 500 prime.

I didn't mean to start such a strong conversation, but it is helpful to me, and who knows, someday I may even understand all of it! I also didn't mean to post this in the wrong forum, I just thought I would get more relevant answers in the bird forum.

One question though:

Dont forget to turn IS switch to 2 mode for panning.Is this an option on the higher end lens, as I only have on or off on my two IS lenses?

[In2Photos]

One question though:

Is this an option on the higher end lens, as I only have on or off on my two IS lenses?
Yes. It is mostly on the teles. Mode 1 is for general use, Mode 2 is for panning.

[tonylong]

Yes. It is mostly on the teles. Mode 1 is for general use, Mode 2 is for panning.

And, mode 2 is available on the 100-400 (and, as far as I know, on all the super-teles as well).

[Ed Rotberg]

I would also note, that your "exposure crutch" is a bit more difficult with a long lens on your camera. What I have used instead, and what has worked very well, is green foliage. A bit more difficult, yes, but, also addressed in the thread is the fact that your hand doesn't need to be in focus. Another option I mention is that you could shoot white paper on the ground. Finally, also addressed is the use of grass/trees on the site, as they aren't a constant value everywhere & you should recalibrate before you use them.

I encourage you to try using your hand on a 500mm lens with 1.4 TC on. If you do manage to get it out there in front of the lens with your eye still over the viewfinder, it's unlikely to be in the proper light, but more likely shaded by your lens hood. Without looking through the viewfinder it becomes more difficult to adjust the f-stop/shutter speed/ISO. While do-able using the top LCD, you'd have to remember to cover the eyepiece to avoid confusing the metering system with light coming in from the eyepiece. Foliage has worked very well for me as a starting point, and this method is even taught by some professional wildlife photographers (remember I do shoot manual) ;)

The key with AV mode is that you can open the lens up (hopefully it's sharp wide open) and get the fastest possible shutter speed.As written, that makes no sense at all. I'm sure that you were trying to say something else. True for an experienced shooter whose very comfortable with EC. I've offered manual as a less complicated option, knowing that we'd end up going through this.

What don't you understand about that? You put the camera in AV mode, dial the widest aperture available on the lens, and you'll get the fastest shutter speed possible for that ISO and that light with that lens. Sorry I didn't spell it out completely for you. For birds in flight, "shutter speed is king".

= Ed =

[PhotosGuy]

I encourage you to try using your hand on a 500mm lens with 1.4 TC on Well, it wouldn't work with a 600mm f/5.6, either, but we were talking about a 100-400L, or 400 prime, & I addressed solving the problem with them. If you do manage to get it out there in front of the lens with your eye still over the viewfinder, it's unlikely to be in the proper light, but more likely shaded by your lens hood. I repeat; A bit more difficult, yes, but, also addressed in the thread is the fact that your hand doesn't need to be in focus. Another option I mention is that you could shoot white paper on the ground. Finally, also addressed is the use of grass/trees on the site, as they aren't a constant value everywhere & you should recalibrate before you use them.
Which means, calibrate your "normal" exposure. Point the lens at something green that you want to use. See where the needle is now. That's where you want it to retain your "normal" exposure. Foliage has worked very well for me as a starting point, and this method is even taught by some professional wildlife photographers (remember I do shoot manual) I know. I used it 40 years ago. As long as you compensate for light green vs dark green vs what you have there, it will work. What don't you understand about that? You put the camera in AV mode, dial the widest aperture available on the lens, and you'll get the fastest shutter speed possible for that ISO and that light with that lens. Sorry I didn't spell it out completely for you. For birds in flight, "shutter speed is king". I don't understand why you seemed to use that as a reason to use Av. A lens can be set wide open on manual, as you well know.

I've shot "twitchy little birds", too. One second they're on a twig with sky behind them. The next they're on a twig with all leaves or tree trunk behind them. Not a good situation for EC.

How about a hawk that you're lucky enough to have above you? It stoops for a rodent & now you have field as background. Explain to a beginner how to use EC to compensate in one second or less.

Finally, if I hadn't used M in this situation, I would have had some nicely exposed shots of a sunset with the egrets in a black hole.
Sunset Egrets? (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=368575)

I'm done with this. Ken has enough info to reach an informed decision. Whatever you decide, Ken, good luck!

[Ed Rotberg]

As I have said, in pretty much all of my posts - I do use manual for those reasons you mention as well as others. But what I use is not the point. You and I have both been shooting BIF for a while. Dealing with shooting manual - which no matter how you look at it requires more thought and attention as well as a complete understanding of exposure - for someone shooting BIF for the first time is overload. Let the OP get used to tracking birds, locking focus and then shooting short bursts. That's a whole handful for the first time. If the OP enjoys the outing and starts to feel comfortable, Manual can be added in on later trips.

The OP was not asking for the OPTIMAL way to shoot BIF, but how best to get started. I still contend that minimizing the dealing with technical aspects is the best way to go out and have fun - and get some great results.

I've said enough on this topic and won't bother to reply again. This is obviously a crusade for you, and I don't want to be a casualty in a crusade. I feel much the same way about the over-use of Noise Reduction on wildlife images, so I'll grant you your crusade.

= Ed =

[Ken_from_MD]

Well, I finally made it out once and gave it a try. The birds were not very cooperative that morning so there were few close enough to really practice on. I got a couple of decent shots of a sea gull, one only OK shot of a cormorant and one of a young bald eagle. The weather hasn't allowed me to go back out before I have to return the lens. Next opportunity will have to wait until I buy one.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d57/Ken_from_MD/Kens%20new%20car/zoo%20pics/gull1.jpg

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d57/Ken_from_MD/Kens%20new%20car/zoo%20pics/cormorant1JPG.jpg

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d57/Ken_from_MD/Kens%20new%20car/zoo%20pics/baldeagle1-juvie.jpg

Anyway thanks again for the pointers. I played mostly with shutter priority and a little in manual using the *button to try and lock exposure. I played with that a little more later in the week at the zoo while watching the cheetahs run around. Can't wait to go out try some more.