200mm too short for airshow?

[medicdude]

im going to fleet week in SF next month and i will be on alcatraz most of the day. im wonddering from those who have been before if 200mm would be too short. thanks!

[RPCrowe]

im going to fleet week in SF next month and i will be on alcatraz most of the day. im wonddering from those who have been before if 200mm would be too short. thanks!

200mm is too short for most airshows that I have been to. I shot my last airshow at MCAS Miramar in San Diego with a 70-200mm f/4L IS lens and a 1.4x TC and that was barely long enough.

[ryant35]

I'll be shooting with a minimum of 400mm and a max of 600mm this year at Miramar.

70-200 f/2.8 & 300mm f/2.8 with a 2x TC.

[medicdude]

man i dont see the funds coming together for the 100-400 in the near future. to those of you that have used it, would you recommend it over the 70-200 f/4? does the IS make up for the lost stop at the big end? Im thinking I may rent one from Calumet for 35 bucks for the day.

[FlyingPhotog]

Using the 1.4x TC you're gonna be at f/5.6 anyways (you lose a stop of light with it.)

However, starting with 200mm you only end up with 448mm of effective reach (200 x 1.4 x 1.6) whereas with the 100-400 you're at 640mm worth of effective reach (400 x 1.6) [I think the math is correct...]

And yes, IMO, the Mode 2 IS is nice for panning with fast movers as well as being able to slow the shutter speed to get good blur on propellers.

[oaktree]

I'm familiar with SF but not fleet week. I assume there must be an air show connected to it. Will the planes fly over Alcatraz? If not, there ain't any lens long enough!

Air shows are usually near a small airport. The nearest airport is Oakland but Oakland is a big airport (i.e., too busy to have a air show near by). There may a small airport in Marin County.

[FlyingPhotog]

I'm familiar with SF but not fleet week. I assume there must be an air show connected to it. Will the planes fly over Alcatraz? If not, there ain't any lens long enough!

Air shows are usually near a small airport. The nearest airport is Oakland but Oakland is a big airport (i.e., too busy to have a air show near by). There may a small airport in Marin County.

At Fleet Week, the airshow is out over the water...

[carpenter]

man i dont see the funds coming together for the 100-400 in the near future. to those of you that have used it, would you recommend it over the 70-200 f/4? does the IS make up for the lost stop at the big end? Im thinking I may rent one from Calumet for 35 bucks for the day.


IS can very be important at an airshow. When you want to get that good prop blur, especially at longer focal lengths.

I shoot quite a few airshows and would definitely recommend the 100-400 over any incarnation of the 70-200. F4 for F5/.6 It really has no bearing on an airshow in the day even overcast with the 100-400 you can just bump your ISO to maintain a good shutter speed for the jets.

You can certainly use a 70-200 and still get great shots. You will just be limited to how far out the plane is when you can start taking your pics. Usually both jets and performer planes will do maneuvers, and aerobatics either at airshow left or right vs center so depending on how far out they are you might miss out on nice crisp shots that way. Things like catching vapor on the wings from a vertical climb, or a nice tight shot of the plane coming directly at you. Due to the angle you are shooting many times the shots further out look more stunning because you aren't so far under the plane and can still get a nice close shot.

[Matt30D]

I will be there with my EF 35-350 f3.5 and my 90-300 and my EF1200!

[medicdude]

Thanks man that's good info ill probably rent one and try to buy one soon. I doubt ill miss the 75 to 100 gap ill have in FL. How does it compare to the 70 200 below 200mm wide open?

[CyberDyneSystems]

I'm no Air Show expert, but I used the 100-400mm and 500mm prime.
The 100-400mm was far more flexible of course, but there were still times I preferred the reach of 500mm.
If your on a 1.6x crop, then your 400mm will be equal to the 500mm on a 1.3x as I was shooting.
ie: 100-400mm is a very good choice.

200mm would be far to short for most of the show IMHO.

[rang]

I shoot the Miramar Air Show(s) in San Diego...and the 100-400 is the air show glass and Red Bull Air Race glass. Flexible range and hand holdable (even with older version of IS).

200 is way too short for early lead and follow through by comparison.

If Canon ever makes a 200-500 zoom I will be so all over that I will sell...crap...I'll have to find something to sell to buy it.

Rent 100-400...you will then want to go buy one.

-rang

[andrewhuxman]

I am guessing in the Bay area you will need all the reach you can get unless you can get out on one of those piers pending where the show line will be. Show center is the Aquatic Park there are 2 piers I believe on the sides of it maybe you can get on one of those.

[oaktree]

I am guessing in the Bay area you will need all the reach you can get unless you can get out on one of those piers pending where the show line will be. Show center is the Aquatic Park there are 2 piers I believe on the sides of it maybe you can get on one of those.


If this is the case, a 100-400 or the 400/5.6 should be OK from Alcatraz. I assume the planes won't get close to the Golden Gate Bridge and will try to stay in the area between Fisherman's Wharf and Alcatraz. I bet the gung ho pilots may try to buzz Alcatraz unless there's a FAA rule against doing that.

Have a great time! SF Bay is one of the best places to take pictures.

[ryant35]

The extra long lenses are cool to play with

300mm f/2.8 & 1.4x TC
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k173/ryant35/IMG_1774.jpg

[andrewhuxman]

The extra long lenses are cool to play with


Indeed they are
500MM
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t47/ahuxman58/IMG_6065.jpg

[Colorblinded]

I shot one recently with my 70-200 2.8. It was all I had because I forgot my 2x converter :(

I had a fun time and got some decent shots (I wasn't looking for high art here) but I would have liked a longer lens. A zoom from the 200-500mm range seems like it would be ideal.

[Madweasel]

200mm is too short for most airshows that I have been to. I shot my last airshow at MCAS Miramar in San Diego with a 70-200mm f/4L IS lens and a 1.4x TC and that was barely long enough.
My experience has been exactly the same.

[SF Lights]

Wait, what days are the airshow?

[medicdude]

I'm going Oct 12. Its all that wknd

[Bobster]

400+ for airshows
http://www.pbase.com/bob_hall/image/102307060.jpg

altho' you can use shorter lenses as well for more artistic shots :)

[medicdude]

Man you guys are really. Really. Tempting me into getting it. Again I ask? Is it comparable to the 70-200 f4 at 200mm wife open?

[SF Lights]

Wife open?

[roentarre]

It is too short. I would rather use 200mm on candids or theater shots

[thumper 8]

man i dont see the funds coming together for the 100-400 in the near future. to those of you that have used it, would you recommend it over the 70-200 f/4? does the IS make up for the lost stop at the big end? Im thinking I may rent one from Calumet for 35 bucks for the day.

Yep - rent one for the day if you can. A great way to 'test drive' the glass.

Our local rental outfit is $30 to $50 per day depending on the lens... a lot cheaper than buying the long L lenses - especially if you don't need the long glass very often.

[1DMARKII]

I am thinking about taking my 300mm 2.8 IS to an airshow soon.

Will probably pack a 70-200mm F4 and 1.4x aswell though and to be honest I am not interested in static planes so dont need a WA lens :)

[ryant35]

I can't imagine not bringing a 300 f/2.8 to an air show if I owned it...:D

[Bobster]

yeah i'd definitely take a 300 2.8 with a x2 tele..

[FlyingPhotog]

yeah i'd definitely take a 300 2.8 with a x2 tele..

Hmmm you raise an interesting point regarding the 300 2.8...

+ 1.4x = 420mm f/4
+ 2.0x = 600mm f/5.6

Is it worth one full stop to gain only another 180mm ?

[Bobster]

Hmmm you raise an interesting point regarding the 300 2.8...

+ 1.4x = 420mm f/4
+ 2.0x = 600mm f/5.6

Is it worth one full stop to gain only another 180mm ?
well the air show that was here last week, i definitely wanted more than the 400mm (200+x2 tele) that i had..
would have loved to have gotten in closer on this (this is already cropped 20%)
http://www.pbase.com/bob_hall/image/102350549.jpg

[Eaton Photos]

Here is a shot at 300mm on a 1D2N. Exif intact, for those that would like to know the data side of the image. :cool:

50% Crop
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3235/2826019423_df39544f59_o.jpg

[Fedxpress]

This P-51 was shot in Duxford with a 70-200 F4.0 is with a 1.4 Kenko on it. The focus length was 250 with this shot.
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s90/tccustom/P-51.jpg
Oh,, I just got my 100-400 in for Duxford this weekend.
Yea the 200 is too short.
Fedxpress

[medicdude]

would someone mind doing a test for me? someone who maybe has or has access to both lenses.
70-200f/4 and a 100-400. same ss, iso, etc.
200mm, f/5.6. i want to see the differences here.

[carpenter]

Hmmm you raise an interesting point regarding the 300 2.8...

+ 1.4x = 420mm f/4
+ 2.0x = 600mm f/5.6

Is it worth one full stop to gain only another 180mm ?

The stop in light doesn't really matter for an airshow. I have never shot one where I needed to be at F4 to get proper shutter speeds.

[FlyingPhotog]

The stop in light doesn't really matter for an airshow. I have never shot one where I needed to be at F4 to get proper shutter speeds.

Well, don't go to Aviation Nation at Nellis AFB in Vegas...
The flying started at 9am and ended about sun down:

I'd have loved to have had another stop or two (for more shutter speed)

20D + 100-400
1/500 @ f/5.6 ISO 100

http://www.pbase.com/flyingphotog/image/88907846/original.jpg

[silvex]

I'll be shooting with a minimum of 400mm and a max of 600mm this year at Miramar.

70-200 f/2.8 & 300mm f/2.8 with a 2x TC.

When is the next show at Miramar?

[wtaccord]

I'll be at Fleet week as well. Last year I shot from one of the piers. 37 I think it was. I shot with my 300mm f4 with 1.4x. For the most part it was long enough. At times it was actually too long as the planes get pretty close to the piers. I'll be taking the same setup this year and probably take my other body with 70-210 for close flybies. I wish I had the money for a 500mm but that is somewhere down the road. As for all the research I've done most people recommend the 100-400mm for air shows for its flexibility.

[ryant35]

When is the next show at Miramar?

Oct. 4th & 5th.

We'll be there Sunday, I don't want to miss the twilight show, but by grandmother's 80th birthday party is Saturday.

[LBaldwin]

I shoot the Fleetweek show nearly every year. It is great when we have good weather.
200 mm is really to short for single A/C. But it will be OK for formation stuff. Chrissy Field to Pier 39 is the approx airshow center. If All you have is 200mm then go between Chrissy field and the GG bridge, closer to the bridge would work better. This is for single Blue Angel shots and some formation stuff.


Here is a list of stuff, you will need.
1. Get their very early - 0700 parking is always a hassle regardless of the time. Anything after 0800 and you will have to hump your ruck quite a ways!!
2. Get right next to the water, you don't want anyone in front of you.
3. Bring a lawn chair and food, water for your self. There is a Safeway very close to the marina if you want to get supplies there
4. Dress layered it does get cold and windy. I have seen 50knot winds the day of the show. Remember to bring hat, gloves and rain jacket.
5. Sunscreen 100x, Sunscreen 100x, Sunscreen 100x.
6. Be prepared for security issues. Keep your gear with you at all times if alone and maintain situational awareness at all times. SF is usually a friendly place, but I have had run-ins with knuckeheads more than once. I had one hippie type chase me for food/money once and then grabbed my arm. I showed my 9" tanto just for informational purposes he decided to go somewhere else - in a hurry.

[FlyingPhotog]

"Aircraft must remain 500 feet from any person, vehicle or structure. Aircraft must remain 1000 feet from any person, vehicle or structure in populated areas..."

The FARs be damned boys...I'm leaving a wake!

(Helluva shot Les...)

[LBaldwin]

I wish I was good enuf with PS I want to add a piccy of water skiing behind... DOH.
Really like your Warthog too. I got chased in Germany by those weenies. Seems a M915 w/40 ft tractor makes a great training target...

[FlyingPhotog]

I wish I was good enuf with PS I want to add a piccy of water skiing behind... DOH.
Really like your Warthog too. I got chased in Germany by those weenies. Seems a M915 w/40 ft tractor makes a great training target...

Seeing as the Hog likes it low and slow, I think somone walking to the mail box makes a good training target for them.

My favorite modern tactical jet.

[Bobster]

I'd have loved to have had another stop or two (for more shutter speed)
practice 1/125 and you'll soon get used to it :)

[FlyingPhotog]

practice 1/125 and you'll soon get used to it :)

Your right of course. I can't seem to get below 1/160 ;)

http://www.pbase.com/flyingphotog/image/87914347/original.jpg

[Bobster]

you'll get there in the end, soon you'll be shooting @ 400mm 1/100 :)
http://www.pbase.com/bob_hall/image/81838299.jpg

[1DMARKII]

Sweet pics folks - thanks for sharing :)

[andrewhuxman]

well the air show that was here last week, i definitely wanted more than the 400mm (200+x2 tele) that i had..
would have loved to have gotten in closer on this (this is already cropped 20%)
http://www.pbase.com/bob_hall/image/102350549.jpg

In my opinion with the 2x the IQ takes a hit, not nearly as bad with the 1.4

[medicdude]

HEY thanks for the info les. and everyone else.
ill have a hard time renting the lens as i would have to pick it up early sunday and drop it off that night and i dont think calumet is open sundays. so my 70-200 will have to do.

[ryant35]

HEY thanks for the info les. and everyone else.
ill have a hard time renting the lens as i would have to pick it up early sunday and drop it off that night and i dont think calumet is open sundays. so my 70-200 will have to do.

Calumet rentals are from Friday through Monday morning for a 1 day rate. But if you are not in the area of a store for those days I guess it won't be possible. You can try and online rental company... but you will have to pay for an entire week + shipping.

[silvex]

Samy's also rents gear and have a stores in southern cal or buy a 100-400Lf/5.6 (or 400Lf/5.6)and sell afterwards. You might loose $100-$150...which you can view as a rental fee..:)

[andrewhuxman]

Theres always this place Borrowlenses .com .And they are located in the Bay area I do believe.

http://www.borrowlenses.com/

[In2Photos]

I shot a show last year with a 70-200 with 1.4x TC and a 100-400. The 100-400 was more favorable, but my shot from the show that got into this year's POTN book was from the 70-200 plus TC.

This year I will be shooting with the 150-500 Sigma. Can't wait! Only 2 more weeks until Oceana Virginia! :D

[JeffreyVB]

70-200 f4 IS w/ Canon 1.4x TC at Langley this year.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v175/onenictoy/Langley08/IMG_9921_Clean.jpg

[FLphotoguy]

im going to fleet week in SF next month and i will be on alcatraz most of the day. im wonddering from those who have been before if 200mm would be too short. thanks!

I spent a day at Alcatraz during Fleet Week in 2008. It was less than ideal for shooting the show, which was situated closer to the city shoreline. There were a few formations that did fly over the island, but not many. Part of Alcatraz is a bird sanctuary. The birds find lots of fish to eat in the bay and they drop their poop on the island. This attracts hoards of flies. For me, it was unbearable. Alcatraz is definitely worthy of a visit to see the prison and learn about the history of the island, but not for shooting the airshow. Other than that, it was a wonderful weekend in the city by the bay.

My Fleet Week 2008 gallery (http://piercehaviland.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=79)

[PhotosGuy]

rent one for the day if you can. A great way to 'test drive' the glass. Rent Lens in Norther Cali (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=314284)

Where Can I rent Lenses (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=285651) "Aircraft must remain 500 feet from any person, vehicle or structure. Make that "Flying aircraft must..." Don't forget your wide angle for the ones on the ground. ;)

[LBaldwin]

Go see my buddies at http://borrowlenses.com/