Do I need a flash and if I do which one?

[bdconner]

Hi, im looking for some advice on a flash unit. The local store in my area only carries the 430ex and a promaster 7500edf for canon. They are telling me that the promaster is a better flash? i find this hard to believe. I see it has a higher guide number etc, but I have not been overly impressed with promaster, but it is about $55 cheaper and more powerful at least on paper. The other question i have, I dont shoot weddings or anything like that mainly just enjoy taking photos of the family, and sporting events. I know for events the flash is totally useless, but how often do you all use a good flash unit for just everyday around the house stuff?

[stathunter]

Not sure I can be of much help. I have 580ex II units but I am a wedding photographer. I do have a Canon 420ex that I have in a backup bag--just in case. I have used it for several non wedding things. I personally would stick with canon products but I am sure other non-canon users will chime in here.

[Mike McCusker]

The 430ex is an excellent flash. If the price difference is only $55 I would stick with Canon...

[chukdivad]

Yes, get a flash. I use mine all the time, bounced inside and for fill outside. As for which one, you really can't go wrong with Canon.

[bdconner]

Yea i had a feeling that going canon was worth it. Now the hard question do i go $289 for the 430ex or spend $449 for the 580ex II. Then to further complicate things. I am shooting with a 40d and my current lens lineup is 28-135 F3.5-5.6, ef 50 1.4, EF 100-400L. Something wider would be really nice and i can pickup a very nice used 17-40 F4L for what a 580ex would run me. I guess im debating which id get more useage from, or for that matter if the 17-40 is really wide enough to get those dramatic building and landscape shots i want on a crop sensor camera.

[elysium]

430EX if you are not sure. For nearly all situations, it has enough power

[engrmariano]

430EX if you are not sure. For nearly all situations, it has enough power
+1. i really love my 430EX, its power is more than enough even i feel some inferiority against 580EXII.:oops:

[elysium]

+1. i really love my 430EX, its power is more than enough even i feel some inferiority against 580EXII.:oops:
I have still lit up a medium size room so its not that bad.

I bought one and drove home thinking I will never use it, it was a waste but as soon as I got home, I was stunned.

The main thing for me is the ability to use a prime in low light. The AF assist beams allow me to get accurate focus.

[bdconner]

the promaster flash can be controlled by the on camera flash meaning i can set it to the side etc, i assume this is of less utility though than having a good canon branded flash that i can control from within my 40d

[chukdivad]

I got the 430 first, then bought the 580 to control the 430 off camera and now have ordered some triggers to use both off camera. I haven't put the 430 back on my camera since I got the 580 just because of its versatility.

[bdconner]

yea im realling thinking its 150 more for the 580ex, but would i ever use the extra features lol. I have a nasty habit of buying for example L lenses because they are the top of the range whereas more consumer based models might work just fine for me

[Titus213]

the promaster flash can be controlled by the on camera flash meaning i can set it to the side etc, i assume this is of less utility though than having a good canon branded flash that i can control from within my 40d

I don't know about the Promaster units but if it has a standard optical trigger you will not be able to control it from your built-in flash on the 40D because of the pre-flash from the built-in.

The issue you will probably run into with the 430EX is that once you've tried it you'll want another flash so you can get creative.:lol: I'd stick with the Canon line.

[DDCSD]

Keep an eye on the for sale section here in the forums. The 430EX comes up fairly often and you can usually snag them for $200 or just a bit over that, used of course.

Ad far as power goes, the 580 is really only about 1 stop brighter than the 430. The 430 is perfect for a first flash. The size is much more convenient than the 580 for general use.

[Mike McCusker]

Yea i had a feeling that going canon was worth it. Now the hard question do i go $289 for the 430ex or spend $449 for the 580ex II. Then to further complicate things. I am shooting with a 40d and my current lens lineup is 28-135 F3.5-5.6, ef 50 1.4, EF 100-400L. Something wider would be really nice and i can pickup a very nice used 17-40 F4L for what a 580ex would run me. I guess im debating which id get more useage from, or for that matter if the 17-40 is really wide enough to get those dramatic building and landscape shots i want on a crop sensor camera.

I don't know where your getting your price from, but that is high for a 430ex. Check B and H prices.

[bdconner]

That price is for a 430 EXII so i think its a fairly good price. Its from Robert's in Indianapolis and their pricing on Canon gear is normally very competitive, plus its nice to support a local business.

[Mike McCusker]

Sorry, I thought you were pricing the 430ex..

[johnjayb]

this is exactly what im going through right now.. get the 430 now... or wait and get the 580 when im really not sure id need all the pictures. its more of a "want" the best thing right now thing.

[hastur]

Robert's is a good place to buy from, but the flash experts are downtown. That said, I would compare with B&H, just to get a baseline on the lowest legitimate price.

I have a 430 and have never been in a situation where the 580 would have produced enough more light to make a difference. If the 430 is too expensive, I'm having good luck with a Sunpak 444, which is functionally equal to a 383. It's not controlled by the camera, but it's automatic and the price was right at Robert's downtown store in the used bin.

PS Check out http://www.abetterbouncecard.com/ great hints on how to use the flash.

Good Luck

Rob

[912]

I got the 430 first, then bought the 580 to control the 430 off camera and now have ordered some triggers to use both off camera. I haven't put the 430 back on my camera since I got the 580 just because of its versatility.


Same here.

[Stealthy Ninja]

I'm no expert, but I just got a 430ex II and it makes photography much BETTER and more FUN.

I think EVERYONE should get a flash when they buy a camera. I was one of many who stuck to the "ambient light is better" idea. CDIfoto sorted me out (thanks dude) and now I think I'll be using flash for nearly every photo (except street candid shots ;) ).

Like someone said above. Bounce inside, fill outside. You can always add more contrast later if that's your thing. :D

Get the 430ex. Like another person said above, it's good enough for everyday use and light enough to not be a hassle.

Oh and get a stofen diffuser (or Chinese copy... which I have) with the flash.
http://www.stofen.com/

[bdconner]

I just bit the bullet and bought the 580ex II at robert's downtown got them down to $420 on it so i had to go for it for the $120 difference. Damn the thing ads some major league weight to a 40D with battery grip though. Now how do i use it lol? are there any good tutorials to look through. It fires using ETTL-II but my shutter speed the camera selects is the same wether the flash is there or not. I know this is not how it should be. I set my camera to manual and the flash to manual (full power) and was able to take a nice well lit photo of my bedroom using bounce of the ceiling at a shutter speed of 1/250. This was in a dark room, but if i set the camera to aperture priority and set my ap to 5.6 same as in manual mod, the camera controlling the flahs shutter speed etc, chose a shutter speed of 3 seconds. Whats up with that?

[Wendelius]

Try this one: Flash Photography with Canon EOS Cameras (http://photonotes.org/articles/eos-flash/)

It's the first thing I'll read when I get my first flash. And this thread has gone a long way towards convincing me that I don't need to wait for a 580EXII but could very reasonably look at a 430EXII. Thanks guys. :)

Wendelius

[bdconner]

The 430 is a good unit i went into the store with every intention of buying it, and the deal they offerred me on the 580ex II was good enough to get me to bite. One big plus for the 430 is it fits in your camera bag much easier and its much lighter.

[Titus213]

I'm not understanding the wait for the 430EX II I guess. The pluses are minimal, the price is exorbitant. Do you know what the differences are?

http://photonotes.org/cgi-bin/flash-lookup.pl?flash1=canon430ex&flash2=canon430exii&flash3=*

[DDCSD]

I just bit the bullet and bought the 580ex II at robert's downtown got them down to $420 on it so i had to go for it for the $120 difference. Damn the thing ads some major league weight to a 40D with battery grip though. Now how do i use it lol? are there any good tutorials to look through. It fires using ETTL-II but my shutter speed the camera selects is the same wether the flash is there or not. I know this is not how it should be. I set my camera to manual and the flash to manual (full power) and was able to take a nice well lit photo of my bedroom using bounce of the ceiling at a shutter speed of 1/250. This was in a dark room, but if i set the camera to aperture priority and set my ap to 5.6 same as in manual mod, the camera controlling the flahs shutter speed etc, chose a shutter speed of 3 seconds. Whats up with that?


An external flash behaves much differently than the pop-up flash. Have a few good reads of the manual, and then have a gander at this website.

http://planetneil.com/tangents/flash-photography-techniques/

Tremendous resource. Much of it may not make sense right away, but read through it and try some stuff out. Then in a few days come back to it and read it again. It will make more sense then.

[msowsun]

I'm not understanding the wait for the 430EX II I guess. The pluses are minimal, the price is exorbitant. Do you know what the differences are?

http://photonotes.org/cgi-bin/flash-lookup.pl?flash1=canon430ex&flash2=canon430exii&flash3=*

The difference in price between the 430EX and 430EX II should only be about $40-50. For that money you get:

Metal Hotshoe
quick release mechanism
silent recycle
Flash Menu in Camera with 40D, 1D III, XSi, etc

[Titus213]

The difference in price between the 430EX and 430EX II should only be about $40-50. For that money you get:

Metal Hotshoe
quick release mechanism
silent recycle
Flash Menu in Camera with 40D, 1D III, XSi, etc

And a wait....:lol:

[jhcanon]

Can't stress highly enough how valuable a flash is. I've had a 420EX for ages, got a 580EX and then an ST-E2 to use them both with brollies.
I sometimes wonder how I ever managed without them!

[hastur]

I consider the flash essential for portraits.

I would rather have an XT, nifty fifty and my $10 Sunpak 444 than my 20D and the 17-55 that I use now without an external flash. A bounce card will make all the difference with the flash indoors.

Rob

[sunnygirl]

Same here.

+2. I always seemed to have problems getting correctly exposed shots with 430EX but have never had a problem with 580EXII. Originally went with 430EX for price, weight and less features - thought I won't use.

[Stealthy Ninja]

+2. I always seemed to have problems getting correctly exposed shots with 430EX but have never had a problem with 580EXII. Originally went with 430EX for price, weight and less features - thought I won't use.

Maybe that's one of the improvements with the 430ex II. I have very little problem with correct exposure with the 430ex II.

[fishingjts]

Maybe that's one of the improvements with the 430ex II. I have very little problem with correct exposure with the 430ex II.

We spent the last weekend at the beach... lots of HARSH Sun and shadows, so I gave my 430ex a big time workout doing fill flash... and I was surprised at how spot on my exposures were.... was really pleased with the results...

http://www.johnnystacks.com/gallery/d/4200-2/IMG_2294.JPG

[Stealthy Ninja]

We spent the last weekend at the beach... lots of HARSH Sun and shadows, so I gave my 430ex a big time workout doing fill flash... and I was surprised at how spot on my exposures were.... was really pleased with the results...

http://www.johnnystacks.com/gallery/d/4200-2/IMG_2294.JPG


My guess is people are going for too fast a shutter speed (if it's indoors) or pointing the flash in the wrong direction... not sure and it's JMHO YMMV. Your photo shows how flash is suppose to be used. :)

I took 2 photos of the same thing the other day to test fill flash. The flash one was better than the ambient light one (this was pretty good ambient lighting too).

[Jim M]

It fires using ETTL-II but my shutter speed the camera selects is the same wether the flash is there or not. I know this is not how it should be. I set my camera to manual and the flash to manual (full power) and was able to take a nice well lit photo of my bedroom using bounce of the ceiling at a shutter speed of 1/250. This was in a dark room, but if i set the camera to aperture priority and set my ap to 5.6 same as in manual mod, the camera controlling the flahs shutter speed etc, chose a shutter speed of 3 seconds. Whats up with that?
It's a bit of an oversimplification, but when set to Av or Tv, the camera always behaves as it it has no flash and sets an exposure that doesn't rely on the flash. The flash only provides fill. If you set the camera on manual and the flash on manual, you could have saved quite a bit of money by buying a cheaper flash. You will probably find it much easier to set the camera on manual and the flash on ETTL. You can also use P mode with the flash on ETTL. In that case, the camera will select 1/60 second at f/4 unless that would lead to over exposure from the ambient light. So, to take advantage of ETTL, I prefer setting the camera on M (try 1/200 at f/5.6 as a starting point) and setting the flash on ETTL, which will result in decent exposures most of the time.

[Titus213]

It's a bit of an oversimplification, but when set to Av or Tv, the camera always behaves as it it has no flash and sets an exposure that doesn't rely on the flash. The flash only provides fill. If you set the camera on manual and the flash on manual, you could have saved quite a bit of money by buying a cheaper flash. You will probably find it much easier to set the camera on manual and the flash on ETTL. You can also use P mode with the flash on ETTL. In that case, the camera will select 1/60 second at f/4 unless that would lead to over exposure from the ambient light. So, to take advantage of ETTL, I prefer setting the camera on M (try 1/200 at f/5.6 as a starting point) and setting the flash on ETTL, which will result in decent exposures most of the time.

A good, simple explanation of using a Canon EX flash. I am constantly amazed at the number of folks that don't understand this about the EX flash and manual mode.

The only thing you've left out of the equation is the ISO (I try to start at 100 or 200) which can be adjusted to impact the ambient light. The flash in ETTL would compensate for this and still give you generally the same exposure.