Diving head first into professional wedding photography..

[KevC]

Okay.

I think I'm out of my mind. But I want to see what the pro's think about this.

I really love photography. However, I am extremely inexperienced. I've only had my drebel for less than a month. Before that, I've never played with SLRs before.

I am deeply considering doing wedding photography professionally.

Why so soon? I've been reading all these threads in this forum about marketing yourself properly. I want experience, but I don't want to start out on the wrong foot. No "I'll do this for $100". And equipment is costly.

I already have two weddings I want to shoot. One, for a friend, aside a pro (who is also a friend... hoping to learn from him). The other, for a friend, but I'm completely taking care of it. They are both in September, so I've got a few months to practise.

But why professionally? There are definitely perks of starting your own business, correct? I'm not sure about the details, but I'm sure I can save a few bucks here and there writing off business equipment and the likes. Of course, I'd also have to pay taxes.

Two of my friends are studying accounting/business management. I'm sure they could lend a hand.

Lastly, I'm still in college. The cost of starting a business isn't *that* great. (acquiring the license for a sole proprietor) I still want to continue studying. I'm not going to let the business take over my life, school is my main priority. However, I still believe it's possible to make a few bucks on the side... 'weekend pro photographer'.

What are your thoughts on this?
Thanks!

[robertwgross]

Before you dive too deeply, you might want to check and see if there is any water in the pool.

In this forum, you may find a good deal of positive advice. Further, consider that the vast majority of small businesses started this way fail within a year or two, and the primary reason is undercapitalization. In general, it takes a long time to build a business up to the point where it is out of the "red". The good news is that there is a sense of personal satisfaction if it is successful and you did it all by yourself.

---Bob Gross---

[jaypie77]

Sounds like Bob Gross and Bloo Dog are getting a little nervous about the competition!

Two of my friends are studying accounting/business management. I'm sure they could lend a hand.

And do you have a friend studying law who will help you in court when you invariably get sued?

No "I'll do this for $100".

If you're serious about photography and you love it and you want to make it your life, then by all means go for it. You'll make big mistakes, you'll spend lots of money, you'll have huge failures, but you'll be happy doing what you love and you'll eventually become great. But if you think you're going to jump in to the glamourous business of high-pay photography with not much experience and under-developed skills, you're going to lose money, you're going to waste time, and you'll become disillusioned.

I'm not going to let the business take over my life,

No successful small-business was started with this attitude, and if you do find success, this will not be a reality. College is more than a full-time job, you're doing lots of overtime and you're paying to do it. Do college and do it well, in your spare time work for the school paper, yearbook, sports teams, marketing department, etc... and build up skills. Don't expect to become a pro in one year.

[Monito]

Practically speaking, you only get one whack at college. Later, you can try starting businesses however many times you need to make it succeed. A college ejumication, whatever the subject, pays benefits in terms of focus, accomplishment, contacts, deepening of social skills, career insurance, and (often) knowledge. An important business skill is reliability and the gumption to see a job through to the finish while doing it professionally. Finish your education and don't forget that you can do it seriously and get a lot out of it while still having a great time.

Less than a month's experience with an SLR is not sufficient preparation for the multiple lighting situations required for the engagement pictures, altar pictures, group shots, photojournalistic reception pictures, and more that are part of a standard wedding package. On top of this, you need to be able to do this under time pressure with pushy mothers of the bride breathing down your neck while kids are tripping over your light stands and you realize you forgot to set the white balance 50 shots back. Meantime, you didn't buy any insurance. You don't have light stands? Oh.

A great way to sour a friendship is to do a so-so job or worse on a friend's wedding.

Now is the time to explore photography without any pressure to perform. There is always the college newspaper and yearbook to shoot for. There is not the same downside to failing, but they are real assignments and you can treat them as such. If after a couple of years of really getting to understand photography and getting a few lenses or lights along the way and graduating and still loving it, then you should jump in with both feet.

Good luck, have fun, and make lots of pictures.

[KevC]

Bloog Dog: Thanks for all the advice. I really appreicate it :)

It seems like what you're saying is the business is all or nothing. If it were to become my life, then I'd agree with you. However, as I stated in my first post, I wouldn't *only* book the weddings that I could make. I wouldn't book 10 or even 2 during my exams. Prioritize my schoolwork.

The only reason I'm hoping to start this business is to fund equipment. The Ontario Government gives grants to young entrepenurs. I could really use that money to get some Alien Bees and a flash meter. Do you think because I'm not going to give it my best, I will fail to receive the grant? I know of a few fellow college students that are running a part time business themselves.

I'll definitely consider another side of photography. The main reason I chose weddings is because I am already 'scheduled' to do two. Casually, but still.

jaypie77: Hehehe. Nah, they wouldn't have to worry. I'm nowhere near their skill! Funny thing is, YES!. Haha... I've got a buddy who's doing law right now. We're a really close bunch, we take care of each other. Of course, as Bloo Dog said, we respect each other as well. Their own work is priority!

I'm serious about photography. I'm not ready to make it my life though. I'm not ready to throw away my college career. I'm too... nervous... about that. My biggest fear is that I'd crash and burn. And never make enough money.

I think you've misunderstood me though. I'm not PLANNING on doing this to make loads of money. There are three main reasons why I want to do this:

1) Fund my equpment. To cover costs. I can't shell out another 1.5grand to cover lighting, tripod, light meters, etc.

2) Experience. I'd gain shooting, AND it'll look slick on a resume. It may help when I'm applying for an MBA in the future! I know those really high end business schools require even highschool students to have their own business to be accepted.

3) Perks of running a business: Tax cuts. Funding from the gov't. Writing off equipment. I could save hundreds of dollars!

I understand many, if not all, of you are doing this full time. I don't know, is there no such thing as a 'part time' business? Maybe it's only up here in Canada?

Notice how "making money" isn't a part of my reasons of doing this? I know a business isn't a charity, and it's main goal is to make money. But as of right now, I'm too busy to focus on 'making money'. I want to have this little thing on the side, generate a few bucks and to cover costs.

If it's still an infeasible idea, can somebody give me information on fashion/glamour photography? :D

[poke]

KevC, I think you missed the point of BlooDog's post (at least what I got from it). If you don't go all the way with a business like this, you end up potentially doing a crap job. Even if the photos turn out ok, thats only part of the job. The commitment / time / effort required to consistently produce a quality result, is unlikely to be invested by a person in your position.

If your looking solely at making some money out of it.... you can always go take some shots that are of good enough quality that you can sell as prints. I know a guy that sells the odd shot to hallmark etc... and makes a few hundred a month out of that. With the upside being that if he stuffs a shot, nobody knows, and nobody cares. (no MOB breathing fire at you)

From what I have seen of the wedding photography business, its really easy to not make money :) if you dont know what your doing.

But hey... when I was in my early twenties... I had a full head of steam and the only way I would ever learn was by stuffing it up myself.

So.. best of luck with your journey... where ever that may take you.

[lmelendez]

Hi KevC
I'll throw my 0.02 cents here... even though I don't have a lot of experience.

Let me start saying that I wouldn't start with weedings. People get married thinking they will be doing it only once, so if you make mistakes on the pictures... that will be the last weeding you will shoot. I understand completely your intentions of having a part time thing to get money for more equipment, I just think that picking weedings to start is too dangerous.

I've been practicing portraits for 2 years now, got my first DSLR three months ago... and I am still hesitating to put the sign. You know why? because I am aware of my lack experience. I've done informal portraits for friends... and yes, some of them are good.. but not ALL of them. That's OK for now because they are friends... but what if somebody hire me, I take 100 pictures and then realized that not one is good??

I am planning to do portraits for money very soon... when? well, I just need to work out a few mistakes that I still do because I want to minimize the amount of mistakes I make in front of the customer :)

It is a risk... you are right. Maybe, I'm just old and think that risk should be measure. Be positive... always be positive, but keep in your back pocket your plan in case something goes wrong. (ie... what if you are sent to court???)

I admire your courage... and I hope everything goes great for you. Just be careful not understimating photography. I've noticed that some people look at a good picture thinking that it was because the guy/gal had a great camera and very good lighting, just make sure you understand the complexities before you sign something.

It is not coincidence that some colleges expend 2 years teaching photography. It is not easy and if you are going to charge, you got to make sure that the pictures are worth the money.

Life is easy.... eat, sleep, shoot with a Canon :)

Regards!

Leo.

[poke]

One last thing before I crawl back into my hole...

I heard someone a while back say:

"Amatures practice until they get it right... Professionals practice until they don't get it wrong!"

That quote has been effective many times at bringing me back down to earth.

Live long and prosper...

[robertwgross]

About the most serious photography that I did during my college days was to shoot night photography of the women streakers on campus.

---Bob Gross---

[tpinchback]

Join your schools news paper as a photographer and gain experience, if you mess up there it is not that big a deal. You mess up someones wedding you will have a major problem on your hand.

[vcutag]

I, too, am a college student who'd love to make a living doing this.

However, I'm lucky in that I'm a journalism major working at the state legislature and taking a photojournalism course, so I'm working daily with news shooters (a great bunch of guys, even if most of them do use Nikons ;) ) who are more than ready to give advice.

So in addition to the PJ experience I'm getting through school, I'm also going to work with some of my fiancé's friends in the theatre department who need headshots as a way to practice portrait photography, as well as some of my friends in the advertising program who need product photography or other work for their ads (our collection of stock photography sucks.) I also have a friend who's willing to model for me to practice lighting and working with models, and he's totally cool with doing nude work, it just has to be a little more tasteful than my last botched attempt. ;-))

I figure this will give me some low-pressure experience at various kinds of photography. I'm working on my equipment, I've got a Sigma flash on the way and I'm ordering two better quality lenses once I get my tax return. My goal is to make the equipment eventually pay for itself, either by landing a job at a paper as a shooter, or doing freelance once I graduate in December.

After reading Bloo Dog's Wedding Files posts, there's no way in hell I'm coming within 80 feet of a wedding.

Ever. :-)

[dshootist]

i will probably get a load of responses to this, but i'm going to post anyway.

by all means, if this is something you'd like to pursue, try it out. i don't believe that you'll be overcome by an unmanageable workload right off the bat, but i also haven't seen any of your work either. this may be an impractical suggestion, but when i started shooting weddings, the first one was used as their wedding gift. i was invited to the wedding anyway, and since everyone has a digital camera nowadays, it was highly unlikely that a shot was going to be missed. now, i told them that i was new to this type of photography, but being friends, they assured me that i should just try my best and let the details work themselves out later. i believe that there is enough stress surrounding weddings already; no need to add to the mix if you don't have to. another advantage was that i have an extensive background in digital image correction and i only shoot digital. this allowed me to "fix" most mess-ups and "artistically enhance" the rest.

i guess what i'm trying to say is that if you're honest with the bride & groom about what you'll be producing, it will cut down on the suprises later. as far as what to charge, that will depend on your friendship or your scruples...

[martcol]

After reading Bloo Dog's Wedding Files posts, there's no way in hell I'm coming within 80 feet of a wedding.

Ever. :-)

Funny, I read Bloo Dog's Wedding stuff and errr....

still wanted to do it! So I had a go. Shot my first wedding in January and was more nervous than the groom! Heck, more nervous than on my own wedding day (1st one, that is)....

I haven't worked so hard for years, totally exhausted. I took heaps of photos many of them totally, totally, awful. But I had enough that were good honest-to-goodness wedding shots. In addition, some of them, just a few, were cracking shots (usually, the accidental ones). I have for instance, a shot with sun streaming through a window into the bride's veil making it glow like she has a halogen spot in her tiara. Funny thing is, she looks like an angel, honest! They didn't seem to mind either, that one side of the bride's suit has loads of clipped highlights in fact, nor did I on that one.

Still, masses and masses of reading, posting, praying and practicing, combined with every ounce of energy I could muster, and a massive dose of luck got me through and I made well, next to nothing! But I have also got the beginnings of a portfolio and a more than satisfied customer who will promote my work so....

Who knows

Regards

Martin

Oh and thanks too for all the wise counsel, tempered with utter misery and pessimism that results in pretty good, ballanced advice from these boards!

[Big_B]

Kev, great idea to run a buisness on side your college work. Just be careful shooting weddings. You are taking a chance with a families most precious day.

[dshootist]

...meaning if you're happy with the shots and the clients/friends are happy with the shots then try to figure out a price commensurate with the final product. the scruples come in when you decide if you're going to level a price at them. again, honesty is the best policy when it comes to business with friends. in my case, both parties were happy with the shots, but since it was my "maiden voyage" as it were, i felt that to charge them would be inappropriate. you may feel different, but that's why this is a forum.

[KevC]

Hey guys,

Thanks tonnes for the advice. I really appreciate it :) I'm still gonna do my friend's wedding, but I'm not sure if I'm gonna handle it professionally. (I mean not officially.... )

I still want to start a business though. Maybe not wedding photography...but a business nonetheless. Portraiture? Glamour? Fashion? Not sure yet.

Oh, and .... I wasn't planning to start anytime soon. I was planning on waiting after my first (shot) wedding.. soo.. yeah. Hehe. I'll hang around here mostly in the critique corner and try to improve!

[KennyG]

Maybe try auto racing. IndyJeff and KennyG will tell you that it's a matter of watching cars driving in circles and owning a long lens. It's a snap.

I get the feeling that I've been baited. That was too easy.

Trust me BD, drivers can get as tetchy as a PM bride. Here in the UK we run proper races that have left and right bends. Jeff would get confused if he came over (wish he would).

[Avalonthas]

Canadians dont do things for profit, we do it for the love of the activity :P.......although getting your photo printer or 1/4 of your camera paid off from one event is a nice friendly gesture.

[JX]

KevC,
Read some of Bloo Dog's posts about his Adventures in Wedding Photography. If you still feel that you’re interested in doing Wedding Photography, then try and get a job as an apprentice photographer. Learn the business before you try to do it on your own. I think Wedding Photography is most difficult profession any photographer can enter into. Even if you are the world’s foremost expert at photography, you may not be a successful Wedding Photographer. You need the people skills of a cruise activity director, business skills, patience and diplomacy, and a personality that can take criticism and abuse from customers who think they are paying too much for your work.

[IndyJeff]

Maybe try auto racing. IndyJeff and KennyG will tell you that it's a matter of watching cars driving in circles and owning a long lens. It's a snap.


Oh yeah it's a snap anyone with a 200 or better can be out there and is assured of getting a cover shot on Sports Illustrated at least 3-4 times a year.
Oh and we don't have to worry about getting picked up by the brides sister, nor do we have to worry about watching our calories with all the buffets and wedding cake, not to mention getting smacked upside the head by a deadly throw of the bouquet either, right Kenny?


Trust me BD, drivers can get as tetchy as a PM bride. Here in the UK we run proper races that have left and right bends. Jeff would get confused if he came over (wish he would).

Left & right turns? What the hell is a roght turn on a race track? Oh I know that is the one they take when the come out of the garage area to pit lane. See Kenny, we have right turns too!!!

Actually I have shot races with both left and right, they were motorcycle races. Man you talk about fun but dangerous. Kenny there is no warning on a cycle crash. Running along fine then before you know it a rider goes down and if your not on it when it happens all you get is a guy laying on the ground. No safety on the inside either. They can go anyway when they come together.

Besides, I'd like to see a wedding guy stand his ground when a car comes at him with flames coming out of it. He'd be outta there faster than a guy named Brian at a certain wedding LOL.

[martcol]

...don't have to worry about getting picked up by the brides sister, nor do we have to worry about watching our calories with all the buffets and wedding cake....

Wow! Wedding photography just got prettier!

WeddingyMartin

[Claire]

Oh and we don't have to worry about getting picked up by the brides sister, nor do we have to worry about watching our calories with all the buffets and wedding cake

Wait, weddings involve the bride's sister hitting on the photographer? Hm, what about the brother? Darn about the calories though. Guess I'm not getting into wedding photography. :(

[IndyJeff]

Claire sorry but the brides brother is usually the kind that stands in the corner and picks his nose and wonders why none of the bridesmaids will dance with him. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. Don't worry, sometimes the brides father is available. Of course he is divorced and wearing a shirt with wide lapels, unbuttoned about halfway down with a hairy chest and gold chains exposed. Oh yeah and he has the longest hair on the rightside of his head, that of course is combed over the bald spot on the top. But good news....he drives a convertable and likes riding around blaring the sound track from Saturday Night Fever by the BeeGees. It makes him cool!!!


Hey the Dj is usually cool tho.

[Claire]

Indy,
I've actually met the bride's brother when he visited in London. He's a cool guy. Actually received an email from him today. The bride's still trying to match us up with each other, she figures it'd be terrific as I'd be able to move to MN and hang out with her. :D

Oh, and I don't generally go for the older divorced gentlemen dressed as a pimp. Although, I've always wanted a convertable. Unfortunately they don't work well in Sweden. I'd be able to use it 1-2 months only. Ah well, I'll stick to driving my folk's BMW...

The DJ's usually cool? Hm, I'll check that out. What about the photographer? ;)
/Claire

[Tom W]

Okay, maybe you and KennyG DON'T have the easiest gigs. Maybe there's an easier gig out there.


The easiest gig, by far, is that of the amateur/hobbyist/artist with a reasonably decent day job, a low mortgage, minimal car payment, health insurance, a pension, a 401K, and absolutely no concerns as to whether the photography client is happy or not.

No commitments, no regrets.

(and now to the original poster)

But, if the "reasonably decent" day job doesn't pay the bills, and if one enjoys the art/hobby/science/whatever of photography, then one might wish to venture into the business of photography for supplemental income or for a living. However, if one chooses that path, then one must become acquainted with good business practices and must possess the desire to pursue the business with a strong effort. Talent is a prerequisite as well, if you want to build a good name for yourself.

With regards to wedding photography, take the words of Bloo Dog and Bob Gross as words of experience. They don't talk to discourage, but to forewarn that the job is still a job that requires a good deal of effort if success is the goal.

If what they say doesn't scare the poopoo out of you, then you're already halfway down the road to becoming a professional photographer.

[Andy_T]

KevC,

I wish you luck with your venture into the deeper waters of photography. I also trust that you will give your best to make sure your friend gets the best wedding pictures possible.

I've seen some of your work in the 'Share pictures' section.

Now I know that you can profit from honest critique ... you might use the time until the great moment to get additional practice with the 'standard shots' that are normally needed for a wedding... candids, group shots, formals, headshots and so on. Pay special attention to lighting (that will be far from optimal at a wedding)

The more practice you have, the easier it will be for you to quickly respond to how the celebration is developing.

KevC ... don't get me wrong ... I really like some of your work I've seen. But unless you're comfortable that ALL of your pictures have good potential, you might get some more exercise ... maybe look for some pro photographer that could need a (lowly paid) assistant in your area.

Best regards,
Andy

PS: I don't know about the current recruiting requirements at business schools you mentioned ... but my guess would be that if you're successful with a photography business it would more be a testimonial of your photographic talent than of your business skills.

In my job I did a fair share of recruiting future management consultants over the last years... typically interviewing top-10-% B-school graduates. Let me put it that way, a successful photography business would be high on the originality scale, but it certainly would not win you any credits as to judging your business acumen.

Your testimony that you only did it to get some government or state subsidies for your camera equipment would not put you any higher on the ethics scale, either. (Maybe helpful if you want to become a lawyer :D , but for most professions not exactly an asset)
Sorry, but that's the way it is.

If you want to get into photography as your future career, then fine ... do it. Join the campus newspaper, try to work freelance as a PJ, try to score a job as a wedding photographers assistant. Be good at what you do.
A B-school degree will *not* help you any at being a more successful photographer.

If your primary target is to go to business school later, an internship in a market research company, a consulting company or something along these lines might be more appropriate.
That way, you'll hopefully make big buck$ soon and be able to afford all those great L lenses ... for your HOBBY.

[S230]

I agree with many people that posted their thoughts here that Wedding is a big challenge. Not everyone is as unfortunate as Bloo Dog. But fortunately he survived and be able to share his experience with us. :)

I personally started in a similar situation as you did except with a point and shoot. I did as someone here pointed out is to be honest and tell the B&G (Since they know you) that you will try your best. Once you're done, let the B&G decide if they should "TIP" you for your work. I consider friendship more important than a few hundred dollars. If you don't plan on any money in return, you will feel much better and also treat the money as a bonus. For starters, I suggest working alongside a pro that they would hire. This way you can learn a lot and decide if that is what you want to pursue. Because I was using a P&S camera, same as yours (S230), I was no threat to the photographer and was able to work along side with him.

[KevC]

Thanks for all the posts ;) Wow, that's a lot of reading I have to do.

Anyway, I do believe you guys got the wrong impression of me. *sigh* It's ok. I don't plan on doing this as my full time career. Nope, not at all. And I'm not saying that I'm good enough to be a professional either. It's just I'm doing a wedding for a friend and I believe it's better to do it "officially" than unofficially. As S230 said, friendship is more important at this stage, and I would absolutely make sure that my friend knows I will try my best to produce the best pictures I can. Money's tight, and they can't afford a pro-pro :)

I really want to improve aswell. I need practise, of course, and I've got a few months to do so. It's just school is so busy right now. Hey, at least I've got a break next week. Yay reading week. I'm definitely gonna be out and about shooting everything I can :)

Thanks for all your advice, I really appreciate it.