file viewer vs. photoshop cs

[RJCONKLIN]

i have a canon 10d for 18 months. i always shoot adobe rgb raw. i have taken about 2000 pictures in 18 months. i am a retired physician and spend a lot of time playing around with post processing.

if i process a raw file through file viewer, which means, converting to a 16bit tiff file with no other processing; then process the same raw file through pscs to a 16bit psd file there is a great difference in picture quality. the tiff file in every case is better. why?

in addition using all of pscs "magic" on the both the tiff and psd files, the tiff files always look better on the monitor and on the print.

i can never make a psd file look as good as a tiff file. why?

the real practical problem is the tiff file is 36mb. is there a way to make a psd file look as good as a tiff file?

thank you

[CyberDyneSystems]

The PSCS RAW converter is not specifically designed for the Canon RAW file... to get PSCS to do Canon RAW files justice,. a lot of tweeking needs to be done.

In the end I essentially gave up on PSCS for working on my RAW conversion finding Canon's, Breezebrowsers, and Capture 1's all to be superior.

Granted I still work every file in PSCS for other aspects,.

There are those though that have taken to the time to get there Canon digital "dialed in" in PSCS RAW converter... and from there they do have very good results. (I actually had good results too with PSCS,. it just took way to much time to do it every time)

Also,. I find that the PSCS RAW converter adds noise to the files in conversion..


RE: Tiff Vs. .Psd

I do not think the difference you are seeing has anything to do with the eventual file type (tiff Vs. PSD)

All a .psd is,. is a tiff file with some added adobe stuff that makes it more suitable for saving information like layers, channel data etc..

If you start with your Canon converted RAW file,.. then open the resulting tiff in PSCS and save it as a .psd and compare the two (tiff Vs. .psd) I think you'll find the two files identical in every way.

[RJCONKLIN]

yes, i can convert a 36mb tiff file originally processed from adobe rgb raw in file viewer; then converted to a 36mb psd file in pscs. this is 5 to 6 times as large as it would be if i just processed it in pscs and saved as a psd file. what am i missing?

[PacAce]

When you convert using PSCS, what size are you converting to? The size I'm refering to is the one that is chosen from the Size dropdown list on the lower left hand side of the RAW conversion window. On mine, whether I convert using EVU to TIFF or PSCS to PSD, the file sizes are essentially the same size for both formats.

[RJCONKLIN]

when i open pscs file browser comes up. i then click on the raw file, make no adjustments, click ok. now i save as a tiff and save as a psd file both about 36mb a piece. i don't know where to find a raw conversion window on the left side. what is evu?

[PacAce]

when i open pscs file browser comes up. i then click on the raw file, make no adjustments, click ok. now i save as a tiff and save as a psd file both about 36mb a piece. i don't know where to find a raw conversion window on the left side. what is evu?

OK, now I'm confused. I thought you said earlier that the file save with FVU is 5 or 6 times larger than the PSD file saved after using PSCS to convert the RAW file. But then, in your latest post, you said that they are the same? :confused:

Anyway, the size option I was referring to is circled in red in the attached image.

EVU is EOS Viewer Utility. It is an update to and a total replacement of FVU. If you haven't installed it yet, I highly recommend you update to EVU as soon as you can. It's much better than FVU. You can get the download here:

http://consumer.usa.canon.com/ir/controller?act=DownloadDetailAct&fcategoryid=325&modelid=8772#New%20Window

You might also want to download DPP while you're at it.

[CyberDyneSystems]

I must confess you have lost me as well :(

[Scottes]

Leo, from RJs first post I think "file viewer" is PC CS's file broswer.


All this seems very strange though. I can't understand how it's happening.

[PacAce]

Leo, from RJs first post I think "file viewer" is PC CS's file broswer.


All this seems very strange though. I can't understand how it's happening.

Now I'm even more confused if you are right about the file viewer (file browser) because, in that case, there's no need to convert to TIFF before PSD.

[Scottes]

I agree. It's a strange situation.

RJ, can you provide a detailed step-by-step of what you're doing?

[RJCONKLIN]

ok,i guess this is getting a bit complicated, so i will state some facts that i believe to be true. if not, tell me. by the way i do have evu!

(1) process raw files in evu convert to 16bit tiff. then open tiff file in pscs and reprocess, save as a pds or tiff file. finally print from either the tiff or psd file.

(2) never process a raw file directly in pscs because evu does a better job of conversion. your pictures will look better when processed in evu.

(3) there is no way to save a finished processed printable tiff or psd file of less than 36mb.

[RJCONKLIN]

Now I'm even more confused if you are right about the file viewer (file browser) because, in that case, there's no need to convert to TIFF before PSD.

eos file viewer is a canon product. file browser is a pscs product. if you are using eos file viewer to convert a raw canon file; and you want the best quality ; what else, other than a 36mb 16bit tiff file can you convert to?

[Scottes]

(1) Mostly. It's pretty much a waste of time to print a 16-bit TIFF unless you're using a high-end printer or print shop. An 8-bit max quality JPG is suufficient.

(2) That's a matter of opinion and expertise. In the hands of a knowledgable user, every RAW converter is capable of producing the same quality TIFF or JPG. Alas, there have been bugs in the past with various programs so this isn't necessarily true for every single image.

(3) You can convert to 8-bit - but for max quality don't work in 8-bit and don't constantly save as 8-bit since the 16-bit to 8-bit conversion will cause a very small amount of image loss which can become noticeable if done too many times. You can compress the TIFF with LZW but - depending on the image - you can actually end up with a larger file. In PS CS you can also ZIP compress a TIFF but I don't know what other programs support ZIP TIFF. For prints, see my comments on (1).

But otherwise you're right. A 6 megapixel image in 16-bit TIFF is a 36 MB file.

[RJCONKLIN]

i wish to thank all of you for your input. i an not a professional, so i spend at least 1/2 hour going from raw to print, for each print. there is no question in my mind that canon eos file viewer converts a raw canon file better than pscs. i just hate to have to use two programs.

also, since i spend so much time going from raw to print; saving the raw is pointless. i save the finished product, so i can view or print in the future. the problem?-- a 36mb file.

[PacAce]

i wish to thank all of you for your input. i an not a professional, so i spend at least 1/2 hour going from raw to print, for each print. there is no question in my mind that canon eos file viewer converts a raw canon file better than pscs. i just hate to have to use two programs.

also, since i spend so much time going from raw to print; saving the raw is pointless. i save the finished product, so i can view or print in the future. the problem?-- a 36mb file.

My workflow is to usually convert RAW to TIFF using EVU although I do use PSCS for RAW conversion every now and then.

I then open the TIFF file to do my editing. If I do some extensive editing on the image and see a need for it in the future, I will save the file as a PSD file for future editing. If not, I don't bother resaving as a PSD file.

If I only need one copy of the image and want to print it immediately, I'll print directly from the edited image. If not, I'll save the edited file as a JPEG file. This will decrease the size of the final copy. I can then delete the TIFF file if I see no further need for it. However, since disk space is not an issue for me, I usually keep all my TIFF and PSD files although I don't necessarily back them up like I would the RAW file and the final JPEG files.

[RJCONKLIN]

My workflow is to usually convert RAW to TIFF using EVU although I do use PSCS for RAW conversion every now and then.

I then open the TIFF file to do my editing. If I do some extensive editing on the image and see a need for it in the future, I will save the file as a PSD file for future editing. If not, I don't bother resaving as a PSD file.

If I only need one copy of the image and want to print it immediately, I'll print directly from the edited image. If not, I'll save the edited file as a JPEG file. This will decrease the size of the final copy. I can then delete the TIFF file if I see no further need for it. However, since disk space is not an issue for me, I usually keep all my TIFF and PSD files although I don't necessarily back them up like I would the RAW file and the final JPEG files.

thank you leo. i thought i was the only one using two programs, and then, winding up with a monster file. ron.