Wedding Offer - what do you think?

[adblink]

My girlfriend's cousin is getting married in March'09. She/they want me to shoot their wedding, at least part of it. I am already going to be a guest at this wedding regardless if I accept or not. They know I'm uneasy about accepting this because I have very little experience at weddings (I've only ATTENDED one before) and I'm unsure of how well I will be able to "direct" people and what quality I will be able to produce for the formal shots. The candid/reception shots I'm not worried about, its the formal ones before hand.

They have offered me $200 for 2 hours before the wedding. I am waiting for a response from them but I'm sure those 2 hours are going to be for formal shots.

They also offered me $300 for (and I quote) "the 2 hours before the wedding, and a few snapshots of the ceremony, (like 5) and a few of the night (like 5- possbily first dance, cake cutting etc..)"

the second deal sounds like it could easily turn into a full day of shooting. Also I'm sure they are just expecting a dvd of all the images for those prices.

For these prices and my lack of experience, would you give them a dvd of full res images? low res and give the B&G prints and charges others who want more? not accept anything and do it for free anyway?

I would do it for free, or as a "wedding gift" if I didn't have to do the damn formal shots, or if they hired someone and I was the second photog. I would love to do the candid stuff for free, but its the setup shots that would have my stomach in knots.

[Maxxum5]

I will tell you from MY side, that being a second photographer is "ok" but not the best place to be. I was always off to the side and not in any perfect position for "great shots" but I managed to get a few "nice ones".

The prices sound a little off for 2 hours work, where as on this forum, I see an average of $200 per hour, up to $250 per hour with other included items. (Portfolio of 4x6s, Photo credits, Cds etc.) $300 for 2 hours and 10 photos AFTER sound spot on. If, they stand by their word of 2 hours, and additional 10 photos.

If you are uncomfortable with the solicitation, just pass on it, o rbe the 2nd photographer and give them the CD full of images with no contract, without worry, stress free of expectations. Whether you choose to do it for money or not, is on you.

What i did, was volunteered to take photos for FREE under NO obligations or commitments. I did it for two reasons....Like you, a friend of the Bride & Groom, and for the experience.

This way, you are present, tak etime out of your evening to take part in the special life changing event, present a FREE gift, all under zero obligations.

I hope this helps.....

[adblink]

it did help very much maxxum thanks for your comments :)

The other (big) part I forgot to mention is the added weight on my shoulders. They are my age (23) so funds are a huge thing for them, and I know they are trying to do this whole wedding on a tight budget, which is whats keeping me to consider this.

[tim]

They're pretty much family, and you have no experience, so do it for free without trying to make a few dollars. Free is what I think newbies with no experience are worth. You will mess something up, or at least not do as good a job as a pro, no matter how prepared you are, so you might decline unless they hire a pro for at least the important shots.

You may also like to read the wedding FAQ (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=255604), which I wrote for exactly this situation.

[adblink]

ya but I DON'T want to do this (alone) for free, because I know the headache and the nervousness I will be experiencing on that day, and to go through that for free is no way worth it! lol

They kinda are and kinda not really family. I hardly ever see my gf extended family, even though we've been together for 4 years. I probably would have an extremely difficult time picking my gf's cousin's father AND mother (brides parents) out from a crowd.

I totally agree with you that i will probably mess one or 2 things up and not do as good of a job as a pro. You should of been there when I tried to convince her that a pro photographer is NOT what you skimp out on for your wedding, but she wouldn't listen.

For me i just wish she would hire someone so I could be the second guy


//edit

and something i got from the link Tim posted, and it echoes my fears exactly

5) Posing people well is hard. Read books before hand, look at other peoples pictures, and PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE! If you've never given instructions to an inexperienced model before you'll be in trouble. Even with all i'd read and a practice session I wasn't prepared enough.

[tim]

Once you accept money your responsibility is greater.

[Mike30D]

Do it for free. The experience will be worth more.

[flickserve]

Do it for free.

Get them to have another pro in.

That way, you'll be absolved of any disappointments like CF card full, lost a CF card, camera doesn't fire, batteries run out in flash, pictures turn out crap.

I fly to another country to my cousins wedding. Assumed they would hire a pro. Got there the day before. No pro hired. Just me and two other family members with DSLRs got elevated to 'pro' status. None of us had wedding photo experience. It turned out alright because my cousin (the bride) was not expecting great photos and I used a 135mm/2 which got some great portrait shots to make things look a bit 'special'. Mind you, the church wasn't that great a setting.

So really, it depends what their expectations are. They could be the total pragmatists and realise that their budget isn't going to capture the romance, and be ok with it. But if they are not that sort, you've got problems. Leave you to decide which is the safer option for you.

I'd do it for free and give them the full images as a present. That would be my gift.

[stathunter]

They're pretty much family, and you have no experience, so do it for free without trying to make a few dollars. Free is what I think newbies with no experience are worth. You will mess something up, or at least not do as good a job as a pro, no matter how prepared you are, so you might decline unless they hire a pro for at least the important shots.

You may also like to read the wedding FAQ (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=255604), which I wrote for exactly this situation.

I totally agree with Tim on this. Tell them you will "attempt" to see what you can do-- and will do it for free but let them know that wedding photography is VERY tricky business and their are no guarantees since you have never done this before.

[cdifoto]

For what it's worth, I did my first one for $300 and provided a CD of JPEGs with no contract. I had no idea what I was getting myself into and I made sure they were well aware of that. I also thought it would be an easy buck.

Boy was I wrong.

My advice - if you want to gain experience to do weddings in the future, do your best in a professional capacity but don't charge a cent. If you have no aspirations to be a wedding photographer, decline and be a guest. If the latter is your choice, don't take the dSLR because you're guaranteed to be swept up in it anyway. Take a P&S if you take a camera at all.

[stathunter]

One problem element here is not someone taking a poor paying gig but the family issue.........you really do not want to do work for family or friends.

[cdifoto]

I don't consider it an issue when it's family and friends that aren't part of my daily (or at least monthly) life. If I declined all family (even distant ones), I'd never be hired for any local work...I'm related by blood or marriage to nearly the entire town, even folks I don't know. A cold-call bride from just a few months ago turned out to be my aunt's (by marriage) cousin's daughter...we didn't even find out until after the wedding and she was showing off her photos!

[cory1848]

I agree with Tim on this as I just went through it myself. I have shot 2 weddings as a second and 1 wedding as a first with having my business partner be my second shooter. All three I did for free because I wanted the experience. Sure its tough and a headache sometimes but its not as tough as going to class to learn this and paying for it afterwards. I did the school thing and have a degree in photography and I have never learned as much as I have on these three weddings. Real world experience means everything. I would take the job for free and do it for the experience.

I got free food, (good food) and had people pose for me all night. in the beginning I thought I should be paying them to put up with me. I have made mistakes and learned from those. I feel I am now ready to start charging for weddings.

[adblink]

ok so there has been a wrench thrown into the whole thing.......the wedding is in the middle of march, and march around here is almost always cold as hell and snow all over the place. The whole thing (ceremony, reception etc) is all taking place at one location and the formals shots all have to be taken inside, around 4pm is. According to the website, the place has 28ft ceilings, sounds like even bounch flash is out of the question. (http://www.carmens.com/virtualtours/scene6.html)

With just a 430ex will I even have enough lighting to cover this task? I doubt it

[tim]

I'd probably use a couple of studio strobes in that situation.

[LVPhotos]

How about this.. do it for "free", explain that you'll be happy to shoot it for $300 but you insist that they only pay you if they think your work is worth the $300. That will make you feel better and it will look good to her too.

After all, even if she pays you in advance but hates the photos, you'd refund anyway, right?

[Nicole Faith]

This was my experience when I first started, to give you an idea.

My cousin asked me to be the official photographer for her wedding - and while I had photography experience, I did not have any wedding photography under my belt. I said I would do it, but offered it for free as I was unsure I could meet the standards needed. And I was nervous as hell too, but this is what I wanted to do and also needed some experience. Also, if you think about it - people you know will work with you alittle more, so you can get something out of it as well.

I shot the wedding for free (as I was also a guest already) and gave them a full res CD of all photos. From doing that wedding however, I booked two other weddings off the guests who attended and my cousin sent me $250.00 as a thank you for the wonderful turn out. So not only did I get payment off a job I accepted to do for free, but I also booked two more weddings at my now full price. ($1,400.00)

You have to start somewhere and hopefully your friends/family see that and accept your talent for what it is, whatever stage you are at.

[adblink]

I think im going to do it for free, but im still trying to find out if its even possible to do the formal shots indoors with just a 430ex, even tho there is going to be big windows and taking place during the afternoons. I dont want to "wait and see" and find out nots not possible the day of

[AdrianeCale]

Why not go to the site now (well not RIGHT NOW, but you know what I mean), and take some test shots?? That way you can tell the bride whether you can do it or not. If you decide to go, write down what settings are working the best, and maybe even bring someone with you to do a test sitting with.

[adblink]

i thought about that but dismissed it quickly, I don't think they would open the place up to me to walk around with my camera, but I guess it doesn't hurt to call and ask right?

[AdrianeCale]

You would be shocked what people will let you do when a woman in a big white gown in involved. I've taken bridal portraits in a church that I nor the bride were members of. It wasn't even the church she was getting married in, and they gave me a key and told me to lock up when I was done. And they didn't even ask for money, but I did make a donation anyway.

If this bride has already paid a deposit on this place, I would assume they won't have any problems giving her another walk-through... go with her. But don't decide to do or not do this wedding until you've seen the place. I make it a point to go see the churches I've never worked at before at least a month or 2 ahead of time, just so I don't get any surprises on the big day. I've never had a minister or receptionist get mad, I've even had a few say," I wish my wedding photographer had done that, he wasn't prepared at all."

But if it's any consolation, I've gotten by with my 430EX for quite a while now, so it is possible. But I also have studio lights for the portraits as a back up, and most of the time I just bump the ISO up and use a combo of my flash and the ambient lighting.

[tim]

I've stopped traffic in the middle of the main street in Wellington to take a photo of a B&G in the middle of the road. The cars waited patiently, the ones I could see anyway.

[black_z]

That's awesome... hahahahahahha!!

[Jam71868]

Don't do it for free. Your time is worth something and they asked you. Only elitist wedding photographers that are irritated others have nice cameras now would suggest otherwise. Keep that in mind. Try this sometime: Ask a wedding photographer that overcharges for what they do to do a photoshoot of something that they aren't used to doing. Ask them to do it for free because it would be a "good learning experience". See what they say.

Do your best, let them know the quality of your work beforehand and take what they give you. It will be a learning experience worth more than the money you make, but you should make something.

[adblink]

I could always tell them i'll do it as a wedding present, saves me the $100 or so I would of had to give them, plus it will let me sit down with them and say look, I'll bring my camera but I don't want the official title and I'm making no promises on what if any, images will turn out

[tim]

Don't do it for free. Your time is worth something and they asked you. Only elitist wedding photographers that are irritated others have nice cameras now would suggest otherwise. Keep that in mind. Try this sometime: Ask a wedding photographer that overcharges for what they do to do a photoshoot of something that they aren't used to doing. Ask them to do it for free because it would be a "good learning experience". See what they say.

Do your best, let them know the quality of your work beforehand and take what they give you. It will be a learning experience worth more than the money you make, but you should make something.

Ooooh, someone doesn't like wedding photographers.

Having nice cameras is irrelevant, first timers usually don't have the skill or experience to do a good job, especially since most don't put much time, effort, or money into learning how to do a good job. I think free is good value for both parties - one gets experience, the other gets some kind of photos.

Edit - on the other hand charging something has one advantage I can see - respect. I suspect if they pay you, even a little, you'll get more respect than if you did it for free.

[Mike30D]

Don't do it for free. Your time is worth something and they asked you. Only elitist wedding photographers that are irritated others have nice cameras now would suggest otherwise. Keep that in mind. Try this sometime: Ask a wedding photographer that overcharges for what they do to do a photoshoot of something that they aren't used to doing. Ask them to do it for free because it would be a "good learning experience". See what they say.

Do your best, let them know the quality of your work beforehand and take what they give you. It will be a learning experience worth more than the money you make, but you should make something.

So do you mean all wedding photographers are elitist or just some?? Camera selection has nothing to do with it, experience does. What is "overcharging"? Is there a threshold where it becomes "overcharging"? I'd keep going but I won't....

As for the topic at hand....
If you're going to charge them, then charge them for expenses.

[adblink]

So do you mean all wedding photographers are elitist or just some?? Camera selection has nothing to do with it, experience does. What is "overcharging"? Is there a threshold where it becomes "overcharging"? I'd keep going but I won't....

As for the topic at hand....
If you're going to charge them, then charge them for expenses.

thats not a bad idea, definitely would need a few more nimh batteries for the flash

[Zansho]

Don't do it for free. Your time is worth something and they asked you. Only elitist wedding photographers that are irritated others have nice cameras now would suggest otherwise. Keep that in mind. Try this sometime: Ask a wedding photographer that overcharges for what they do to do a photoshoot of something that they aren't used to doing. Ask them to do it for free because it would be a "good learning experience". See what they say.

Do your best, let them know the quality of your work beforehand and take what they give you. It will be a learning experience worth more than the money you make, but you should make something.


I know people who do commercial work as assistants start out for free, for the simple experience of it. I know people who have done thousands of headshots for free, just to make sure they know what they're doing, and how to do it right.

I'll grant that yes, since the OP has a grasp of how to use his flash and understands his equipment, he's certainly better qualified than people who post "how do I use my flash at a wedding lol" to shoot this event.

I'll tell you this. Weddings are a one shot deal. One time to get everything spot on, and yes, with the advent of digital cameras, you can get a way with more, and raw allows you some luxury that we photographers did not have before.

Good wedding photographers are justified in every cent they make. Have you ever shot a wedding? There's a LOT more to it than just clicking a shutter button and putting your flash on a stroboframe and looking professional. You have to deal with a myriad of situations, adjust accordingly, and produce good results CONSISTENTLY.

It's not easy.

[adblink]

thanks for your reply zansho. I hold wedding photographers on a special plateau because I can just imagine how difficult it is.

Not only have I not shot a wedding before, I have only been to ONE wedding in my life (we have a younger family, I'm probably going to be the first one to get married) so its not like I even have the experience of what happens at a wedding.

I think I'm going to sit down with the B&G and reiterate what you (and many others) have said, about how its once in a life time thing and if their comfortable with the chance that things might not turn out. I dont have a backup body and what not and if it goes for some strange reason, I don't want to be held responsible.

[cdifoto]

Don't do it for free. Your time is worth something and they asked you. Only elitist wedding photographers that are irritated others have nice cameras now would suggest otherwise. Keep that in mind. Try this sometime: Ask a wedding photographer that overcharges for what they do to do a photoshoot of something that they aren't used to doing. Ask them to do it for free because it would be a "good learning experience". See what they say.

Do your best, let them know the quality of your work beforehand and take what they give you. It will be a learning experience worth more than the money you make, but you should make something.
I was more arrogant when I had a cheap camera and was clueless than I am now.

I charge what some would consider a lot, but I'm still not above doing things that are new to me for free or a lower cost. I also bust my ass at each gig (evidenced by the sweat that soaks my entire upper body) - I definitely earn every cent.

[tim]

If I decide to enter a new market segment I do it for free initially, or at the very least offer a money back guarantee. If it was a one time only critical event and I had no experience i'd be reluctant to do it.

[STP 40D]

Whether you're paid or not, there's something I think you need to consider, and it's something I haven't seen mentioned. The fact that this is the family of your girlfriend can only exacerbate this:

If you screw something up, and the photos are less than acceptable, these are people who'll hate you forever. The fact that you told them you're not a wedding photographer isn't going to matter an iota to them. All they'll know is that the guy who shot their special day screwed it up, and they won't be shy about sharing that if someone asks them for a recommendation.

If you're going to do it, you might as well get paid...

[Zansho]

thanks for your reply zansho. I hold wedding photographers on a special plateau because I can just imagine how difficult it is.

Not only have I not shot a wedding before, I have only been to ONE wedding in my life (we have a younger family, I'm probably going to be the first one to get married) so its not like I even have the experience of what happens at a wedding.

I think I'm going to sit down with the B&G and reiterate what you (and many others) have said, about how its once in a life time thing and if their comfortable with the chance that things might not turn out. I dont have a backup body and what not and if it goes for some strange reason, I don't want to be held responsible.

Bear in mind, this isn't to discourage you from becoming a wedding photographer, if that is indeed what you may want to do in the future. It's doubly harder to do it for family, because they expect .. well.. unrealistic output, and they nitpick any mistake you make - even if you shoot it for "free."

I've yet to terribly mess up anyone's wedding (here's hoping I don't), but I would sure hate it if I messed up my cousin's wedding and all of the sudden, found myself sitting with the pets at Thanksgiving.

[johncharlton]

For what it's worth, as it's family and you're a guest, I'd decline it.... unless you really want the experience - in which case, do it for free, don't offer any guarentees.

The problem is, that as a guest, you want to enjoy the day - that and been the main photographer don't mix - at all, just don't try it.

As some people have mentioned, you will possibly get a lot of grief from the family if you screw up, and this may lead to difficulties with your partner.

For my 2 cents worth, either do it for fun as a guest and learn from it, or ask the main photographer to shadow them.

Don't mix family weddings with business - it generally is more pain than it's worth!

[flickserve]

I could always tell them i'll do it as a wedding present, saves me the $100 or so I would of had to give them, plus it will let me sit down with them and say look, I'll bring my camera but I don't want the official title and I'm making no promises on what if any, images will turn outSounds good.

[Jam71868]

I should explain.

I think wedding photographers have an amazingly difficult job. Maybe the most difficult photographic task there is.. .like was stated... it is a one time deal. I have a ton of respect for wedding photographers. But I also think they charge more because they know it is a one time deal and that the wedding party is pretty much forced to spending alot of money on their photos.

However, if someone came to this person and asked, they must know there capabilities. Since that is the case, I don't see the problem with charging. Just as long as the capabilities aren't being exaggerated or lied about.