<wedding>advice for a "second/third" shooter - first time wedding!!

[LeoChanPhotography]

i've got two friends getting married in october who have graciously allowed me to be a photographer for their special event.

my first friend has an official photographer & a second photographer. she's letting me play along and follow around during the day to shoot. i want the experience as i'm trying to get my feet into wedding photography. i actually might be the only shooter at the groom's house (yikes!). she's actually given us a list of where each photographer will be and what type of shots they are looking for.

i've NEVER been a photographer at a wedding before so i want to know if there's any rules/guidelines that i should follow to get out of the way of the main photographer but also to get in there for nice candid/formal shots. i've only been at three weddings so far shooting from the pews, and i've always made sure not to outstep my boundaries. now, i'm allowed to. :) so what do i do? what should i be looking for?

my second photographer has a main official photographer, not sure if they have any assistants or what not. i may be a second shooter or third shooter in this case. my friend has expressed she'd like me to take candid pics.

i only have one body at this point and i don't have the budget to pick up a second. i'll be using my 40d. which lenses should i be looking at using at which points of the ceremony?

i have a 17-55mm 2.8 IS and i'll either be purchasing/renting a 70-200mm 2.8 IS. i also have a 50mm 1.8 prime.

i've got a 580exII as well.

i noticed that most photographers have those waist belts with the different lowepro bags for their lenses hanging from it. is that the best way to carry your gear around and switch lenses quickly? i've got a 6MDB right now for my gear.

i'm also still learning flash - i'm a bit afraid of it, but i need to get decent with it soon! not sure if i should just play around more to get used to it.

is there anything else i should know for my first time out? i'd appreciate it!! thanks guys :) i'm a bit nervous doing this, but very excited at the same time.

oh, some links to two weddings i've shot from the pews... :)

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=32665&l=67f13&id=517873007 (first one i ever shot!)
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=38159&l=06031&id=517873007 (second one i ever shot!)

thanks everyone!

[divinemethod]

1. you seem to have more talent than you give yourself. I checked your facebook pics. Also, your friend has put their trust in you to get candid shots, so they trusted you..have confidence in that. As a wedding photog, a confident and smiling photog would have the right mindset to catch more and shoot more than the nervous and sweaty photog who's busy looking at his camera settings all day...

If you are the unpaid second/third photographer, i wouldnt recommend buying gear for the event..unless you were planning on buying it anyway. Renting the 70-200 2.8 IS would be the best option, noticed you are in GTA so Vistek would be the best option..though they require a hefty deposit.

As for the bags and lens changing option...I found the sling backpacks work for me... but I rarely switch lenses in the mid action, I have two bodies... This is almost always a personal preference anyway.

One thing I hope is that your friend has told the hired photographer about you...as the worse that could happen is that you and the other guy are in the middle of the action and people are turning to look at your camera while the other photog is doing formals.. I get peeved when this happens during formals as people get confused, i tell the other freelancer to bugger off to a different angle.

But as always my friend, GET CREATIVE... as a candid/third shooter you have the luxury of working NO pressure and lets you get shots that the main photographer is envious of... get to a high vantage point.. go take those sweeping panoramics... that close up of a teary eyed bride from afar..etc etc...

[divinemethod]

P.S -- this is the photosharing section, I have a feeling a Mod will be moving this to the Sharing know-how/Business of Photography section.

[stathunter]

I agree with divinemethod.
Use what you have, the 17-55 is a great lens that will give you tons of great results. no need to purchase another lens---- since you are hanging around for some experience get creative and take it easy.

[LeoChanPhotography]

thanks for all the tips and the encouragement DM :) really appreciate that.

i'll do my best to take heed of that.

my first friend has emailed all three of us, so i'll be touching base with them to discuss how we should shoot.

i'm never walked around on stage with a camera during the ceremony, and i don't want to be in people's (the audience) way either... i've seen photogrpahers that totally stand in the way of what's happening and it just annoys me to no end. how do you rectify that as a shooter? i mean on one hand you want to get a great shot, but you don't want to block either? *shrugs*

as a second/third shooter, does that mean i won't be able to get "straight on" shots? I assume the main photographer will be doing all of that.

and should i be avoiding using my flash?

i'm grateful that they allowed me to take part, so i want to be as discrete as possible, but still there to document their wonderful day :)

i was thinking of picking up the 70-200mm 2.8 IS as a long-term investment in wanting to get into photography.... i do have a 55-250mm IS, but i find it's far too slow with it being 5.6 at 250, though the IS has helped me get some great shots in those facebook links i posted originally.

my dream as of now is to be a second shooter for a great photographer to learn and be apprenticed before launching out. best way to learn... :)

1. you seem to have more talent than you give yourself. I checked your facebook pics. Also, your friend has put their trust in you to get candid shots, so they trusted you..have confidence in that. As a wedding photog, a confident and smiling photog would have the right mindset to catch more and shoot more than the nervous and sweaty photog who's busy looking at his camera settings all day...

If you are the unpaid second/third photographer, i wouldnt recommend buying gear for the event..unless you were planning on buying it anyway. Renting the 70-200 2.8 IS would be the best option, noticed you are in GTA so Vistek would be the best option..though they require a hefty deposit.

As for the bags and lens changing option...I found the sling backpacks work for me... but I rarely switch lenses in the mid action, I have two bodies... This is almost always a personal preference anyway.

One thing I hope is that your friend has told the hired photographer about you...as the worse that could happen is that you and the other guy are in the middle of the action and people are turning to look at your camera while the other photog is doing formals.. I get peeved when this happens during formals as people get confused, i tell the other freelancer to bugger off to a different angle.

But as always my friend, GET CREATIVE... as a candid/third shooter you have the luxury of working NO pressure and lets you get shots that the main photographer is envious of... get to a high vantage point.. go take those sweeping panoramics... that close up of a teary eyed bride from afar..etc etc...

[Coastwatch203]

Do your self a favor and check out this website:
http://strobist.blogspot.com/
Bookmark it and get into the "Lighting 101" lessons.

[Coastwatch203]

One tip I can offer you is when taking pictures of a group, make sure everyone is looking at you when you take the shot.
Nothing looks worse than several "paparazzi" all drawing the eyes of the subjects in different directions.........
It can ruin a great shot, when the bride and groom are looking at different photographers when you take your shot.
Try to work in with the other shooters and guests, and say something like "Look @ me, Look @ me,,,,,, click!"....
For randoms, well, who cares where they are looking, - just go for the emotional stuff, mum crying, laughing, etc, etc,.... but for any couple or group shot make sure the subject/s isn't confused as to who is actually taking the picture.!!
- This might not seem like an important tip, but believe me it is.....:)
All the best!
Mark

[divinemethod]

Hey Leo,

Straight on shots wont be your responsibility, and don't spend time trying to arrange people and staging shots, thats also not your responsibility I say this from two perspectives: one, thats what the main photographer is there for. and two, if you start doing it and the main photog is doing it, you going to make redundant jobs. You would mostly be shooting candids and different angles than the main photog. i.e. A side shallow DOF pic of the bride as she is arranged amidst bridesmaids, looking over and smiling.

flash used for candids will make them look less authentic, but its not to say that you wont be able to make use of your flash... just make sure to diffuse/bounce it. i.e. a toast in ambient light looks better than with flash..so use your discretion.

If you really want awesome candids get a fast prime that focuses fast and is a medium tele... the 85 1.8 fits the bill perfectly. If you have a friend who can lend you another body, rent the lens and have two bodies... one with your all-around great 17-55 and the other with the prine,, you cant go wrong. Eitherway, i would definitly suggest a faster lens for candids as it lets you use a shallow dof and brings in more light to the sensor. you just have to be more critical with your focusing technique so you nail the focus.




thanks for all the tips and the encouragement DM :) really appreciate that.

i'll do my best to take heed of that.

my first friend has emailed all three of us, so i'll be touching base with them to discuss how we should shoot.

i'm never walked around on stage with a camera during the ceremony, and i don't want to be in people's (the audience) way either... i've seen photogrpahers that totally stand in the way of what's happening and it just annoys me to no end. how do you rectify that as a shooter? i mean on one hand you want to get a great shot, but you don't want to block either? *shrugs*

as a second/third shooter, does that mean i won't be able to get "straight on" shots? I assume the main photographer will be doing all of that.

and should i be avoiding using my flash?

i'm grateful that they allowed me to take part, so i want to be as discrete as possible, but still there to document their wonderful day :)

i was thinking of picking up the 70-200mm 2.8 IS as a long-term investment in wanting to get into photography.... i do have a 55-250mm IS, but i find it's far too slow with it being 5.6 at 250, though the IS has helped me get some great shots in those facebook links i posted originally.

my dream as of now is to be a second shooter for a great photographer to learn and be apprenticed before launching out. best way to learn... :)

[divinemethod]

If you are really interested in learning -- I might be able to take you with me to a wedding or two to just shoot and go silly, shoot me a PM if you want.

[LeoChanPhotography]

would absolutely love to!

If you are really interested in learning -- I might be able to take you with me to a wedding or two to just shoot and go silly, shoot me a PM if you want.

[LeoChanPhotography]

one more question guys... which lenses do you use for which purposes? when do you go wide-angle? when do you go zoom?

i'm thinking of picking up a 70-200mm 2.8 IS to go along with my 17-55mm 2.8 IS.

obviously group shots would be wide. but say for people coming down the aisle... wide or telephoto? i'm guessing for shots of the B&G, you'd use telephoto so you wouldn't too close to them too?

any other comments?

[Dunnomuch]

I usually carry two bodies - one with a 17-40 or 24-70 depending on the location, and another with the 70-200IS. this way i shoot with the long zoom first, and as they get closer, i swap to the second, WA body. i switch back and forth quickly. if you don't have the luxury of a second body, then maybe a friend might be able to loan you one. if you really can't get hold of a second body, i would say go wide and keep moving.

always be mindful of the main photographer and look at what lenses he is using. he he's using a long lens, you can afford to get closer. if he's using a wide, you're likely to be in the shot so move out of the frame. use your wide zoom to get reasonably close, and then quickly take a few steps back and shoot from a different angle.

make a list of the shots you would like to get and go through this sequence in your mind. it does help get you more useful shots.

[Chris]

There is no better combination on a crop body than a 17-55 2.8 IS and a 70-200 2.8 IS IMO

[Borbor]

If you are really interested in learning -- I might be able to take you with me to a wedding or two to just shoot and go silly, shoot me a PM if you want.

I just read this thread because I'm about to take on the role as being a 2nd shooter myself for the first time this coming weekend.

I gotta say DM, you give some awesome advice :)