Is Elinchrom dlite 2 Too Powerful for small product shots?

[mspixel]

Hi everyone. I've spent a lot of time reading strobist
as well as this section but I've been unable to find an answer to my question
so I hope some one here can help me out. I did do my research but really cant find out the information.

I do not know much about lighting. I am brushing up on reading.
I dont shoot outside much and the needs are just for shooting small still life objects like dolls, 60 cm tall toys, products and macro shots as well in a small bed room.

I use a Canon 40D currently with a 100mm macro lens and a Sigma 18-200 Lens and a 50mm Canon Prime (not sure why i'm saying this, in case it helps with the scenario)

I have read that the Dlite kits one cant stop down to get a shallow DOF even for portraits and need ND filters.

If I am shooting small objects like toys, would this Kit be "too much" for me as in "too powerful".. ? I like the softbox dlite 2 kit.

I do help someone knowledgeable can help me out as I'm afraid of shelling out for the cash only to find out the power is too much even when stopped down at its lowest...

Thank you so much for anyone who can help!

Cher

[Wilt]

I don't own one, but on the web it is described as "12 - 200Ws adj ustable in 1/10ths (5 f-stops)". So the question is if your light can be throttled back to the shooting aperture YOU want, at the distance from the subject YOU want to use it at.

Maybe someone can post information about power level vs. aperture at a know light distance, for you to assess.

[TMR Design]

Hi Cher,

I don't have any numbers for you but having owned the D-Lite 2's I can tell you that they will serve you well for product work and if you decide to branch out into portraiture you're all set.

The D-Lite 2 at close range with no modifiers is going to give you enough light to shoot at small apertures for great depth of field as well as back it off to about f/8 or so. Once you add a modifier, be it an umbrella or softbox you'll be able to get down a bit lower but if you want to be shooting at larger apertures such as f/4 or f/5.6 you're either going to have to use several layers of diffusion material, a scrim, ND gels on your strobe or an ND filter on your lens.

Even a strobe with 160ws will give you power levels that could be too high for close range product work if you want large apertures. If you're content to work in the f/8 to f/11 range you're going to be fine with or without modifiers.

[mspixel]

Wilt

Thank you so much..Because i dont know much/anything about flash..the W's doesnt register in my mind... Very Good question you mentioned for me to think about.


TMR Design

Thank you for your answer. I was afraid the Dlite would be "too much" and "laughable" for just "hobby product work" when most people use it for shooting portraits of people. I'm really just interested to learn. I considered 2 Canon E580EXII + diffusers versus this and I still could not make up my mind. But i really dont do much photography outdoors..so....

I do want to shoot with shallow DOF which then comes to mind the issue, "why the need for a dlite 2 if one wants to use ND filters to create a DOF? is one wasting money?" But 2 speedlites are not any much cheaper either so..its...a dilemma.

Doing away with all preferences, If i were to ask you, if i needed to take small product shots in low light conditions mostly indoors with a shallow DOF, what would you suggest?

thank you again.

[Gentleman Villain]

Hi everyone. I've spent a lot of time reading strobist
as well as this section but I've been unable to find an answer to my question
so I hope some one here can help me out. I did do my research but really cant find out the information.

I do not know much about lighting. I am brushing up on reading.
I dont shoot outside much and the needs are just for shooting small still life objects like dolls, 60 cm tall toys, products and macro shots as well in a small bed room.

Yes, the Dlite 200 is powerful enough for your needs. There is a method you can use to achieve more power and DOF for still lifes in the studio using "multiple pops"

For example:

Let's say you set up your Dlite200 on a still life and the power is maxed at F8. Lets say you want to shoot at F11. No problem, turn off all the lights in the room so that it is completely dark. Then expose the light 2 times on the same frame. This will give you F11. Lets say you wanted F16....then you double the amount of pops it took to get F11 to get F16. So F16 would be 4 pops

Hope that makes sense. Studio photographers use this method all of the time.



I use a Canon 40D currently with a 100mm macro lens and a Sigma 18-200 Lens and a 50mm Canon Prime (not sure why i'm saying this, in case it helps with the scenario)

I have read that the Dlite kits one cant stop down to get a shallow DOF even for portraits and need ND filters.

yeah you would probably need ND filters for just about any strobe for that kind of technique. Shallow DOF portraits are usually best with continuous lighting.

[TMR Design]

One very good reason to go with strobes over Speedlights is because Speedlights do not have a constant modeling light. Modeling the subject or object is very important as it lets you see highlight and shadow in a WYSIWYG way that you simply can't do with Speedlights.

You also have the ability to use a wide variety of modifiers with a studio strobe that are not available for Speedlights. To use modifiers with small flash units usually requires a bit of DIY ingenuity of purchasing products made for them but they don't measure up to the modifiers available and made for strobes.

For product work I would absolutely NOT recommend Speedlights. If you want to shoot shallow depth of field then you can use or make simple scrims of diffusers that will cut output by 1 or 2 stops and it's a much better solution that small flash.

[TMR Design]

Yes, the Dlite 200 is powerful enough for your needs. There is a method you can use to achieve more power and DOF for still lifes in the studio using "multiple pops"

For example:

Let's say you set up your Dlite200 on a still life and the power is maxed at F8. Lets say you want to shoot at F11. No problem, turn off all the lights in the room so that it is completely dark. Then expose the light 2 times on the same frame. This will give you F11. Lets say you wanted F16....then you double the amount of pops it took to get F11 to get F16. So F16 would be 4 pops

Hope that makes sense. Studio photographers use this method all of the time.

yeah you would probably need ND filters for just about any strobe for that kind of technique. Shallow DOF portraits are usually best with continuous lighting.

Am I misunderstanding the problem/situation? I thought that Cher wanted to shoot with shallow depth of field, thus opening up the lens and needing less power than the minimum setting. She won't have any trouble doing product work at f/8, f/11, f/16, or even f/22 with a D-Lite 2 (200ws). It's shooting at f/2.8, f/4, or f/5.6 that may be an issue when working at close range, either bare bulb or with a modifier that only cuts output by 1/3 or 2/3 stop.

[Rudi]

Cher,

Here is a post I made in another thread, where I measured the light output of my D-Lite4 strobe (twice as powerful as the D-Lite2). Hope it helps! :)

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showpost.php?p=6173075&postcount=20

[TMR Design]

Cher,

Here is a post I made in another thread, where I measured the light output of my D-Lite4 strobe (twice as powerful as the D-Lite2). Hope it helps! :)

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showpost.php?p=6173075&postcount=20

That was and is very useful information. Just keep in mind that those numbers are based on the strobe being 6 feet from the subject and most product work is done significantly closer, so you'll have to do some simple math to give you numbers for the distance you'll be shooting.

[Gentleman Villain]

Ok...I thought she was talking about two different things. I thought she was talking about shallow DOF with portraits and then needing more power for still lifes.

Either way...it's a good lesson for a newbie...not a lot of people don't know about using multiple pops so it's nice to have in a "bag of tricks"

If a photographer solely wants to use shallow DOF then that is usually the realm of continuous lighting. Strobes probably aren't the best direction to go...but don't always listen to me because I think like a commercial photographer. I can't always relate to hobbyists

[TMR Design]

Ok...I thought she was talking about two different things. I thought she was talking about shallow DOF with portraits and then needing more power for still lifes.

Either way...it's a good lesson for a newbie...not a lot of people don't know about using multiple pops so it's nice to have in a "bag of tricks"

If a photographer solely wants to use shallow DOF then that is usually the realm of continuous lighting. Strobes probably aren't the best direction to go...but don't always listen to me because I think like a commercial photographer. I can't always relate to hobbyists

No problem. You have some valid points. As a matter of fact I've seen you post about multiple pops before. It would be great if you (Gentleman Villain) could create a thread explaining and perhaps demonstrating this technique. I, for one, am very interested in learning and understanding more about this.

[Rudi]

That was and is very useful information. Just keep in mind that those numbers are based on the strobe being 6 feet from the subject and most product work is done significantly closer, so you'll have to do some simple math to give you numbers for the distance you'll be shooting.

True, but with a large modifier such as the 53" Octa, and a possibly a larger product, 6 feet is not all that far away! In fact, even photographing some photo equipment, it would not be all that hard to have the Octa 6 feet away. Since the D-Lite2 is half the power of the D-Lite4, getting shallow apertures should not be all that difficult.

[Gentleman Villain]

No problem.

here's how my brain works and I have a hard time in forums :-) .... I see "Elinchrom" which equals studio lighting to me. Then I see "product" which means more DOF...so I immediately think multiple pops. Shallow DOF is "editorial" and continuous lighting. My brain is wired like a commercial photographer and I interpret words differently sometimes and it doesn't come across well.


As a matter of fact I've seen you post about multiple pops before. It would be great if you (Gentleman Villain) could create a thread explaining and perhaps demonstrating this technique. I, for one, am very interested in learning and understanding more about this.

You're the perfect person to try this cuz you are really good at experimenting. The concept is really easy.

2 total pops increases power by a stop
4 pops increases power by 2 stops
8 pops increases power by 3 stops
16 pops increases power by 4 stops

You can probably see the pattern already. So, how does this work in the studio? Well, the easiest way to try it is in a pitch black dark room. Make certain that there is no light bleeding onto a set. Set the camera on a tripod and put the shutter on Bulb...Then manual pop the flash heads until achieving the desired DOF

So lets say I were to set up one studio flash head to light a flower on a set. And the maximum power of the flash gives me F8...But lets say I want to shoot at F22. Then I would need to get 3 more stops worth of light out of that flash head in order to get F22.....SO I could pop the head a total of 8 times on the same frame to achieve F22

Try it out some night on a simple set if you want...It's a really easy basic concept.

It only starts to get complicated when mixing ambient light (like on architectural shoots) and/or multiple lights with varying ratios. That's where it gets complicated. But the basic concept is really easy.

[TMR Design]

Thank you. You've now planted the seed for some experiments. I'm going to give this a try as soon as I'm done spackling, painting and making some design changes and modifications in my studio.

[Gentleman Villain]

Thank you. You've now planted the seed for some experiments. I'm going to give this a try as soon as I'm done spackling, painting and making some design changes and modifications in my studio.

nice!

Just to get your brain jumped....you can also apply this concept when shooting with strobes mixed with ambient light.

Lets say you have a shot that requires 2 pops on a flash head to get the proper aperture...But the shutter speed is 1/60th sec for the ambient. Then you can shoot one flash pop at 1/120th sec....and then shoot a 2nd flash pop at 1/120th of a second on the same frame (so this requires a mutliple exposure setting instead of bulb) That makes the single frame now have 2 pops of flash and a total of 1/60th worth of light....so it's possible to use this concept when mixing strobes with ambient.

This is a great way to balance ambient light and strobes when photographing architectural interiors.

[TMR Design]

nice!

Just to get your brain jumped....you can also apply this concept when shooting with strobes mixed with ambient light.

Lets say you have a shot that requires 2 pops on a flash head to get the proper aperture...But the shutter speed is 1/60th sec for the ambient. Then you can shoot one flash pop at 1/120th sec....and then shoot a 2nd flash pop at 1/120th of a second on the same frame (so this requires a mutliple exposure setting instead of bulb) That makes the single frame now have 2 pops of flash and a total of 1/60th worth of light....so it's possible to use this concept when mixing strobes with ambient.

This is a great way to balance ambient light and strobes when photographing architectural interiors.

VERY cool GV. Thank you for those examples. :cool:

[RockSlut]

Here's some product shots I did with one D-Lite 4 and a reflector. Please excuse the poor keying work on the tuna tins.
http://www.angusyoung.com.au/glamour/ACP/comp_sm.jpg

I'd imagine that the Dlite 2's would be fine for the purpose.