Criteria for turning pro?

[mikesd]

Not necessarily a full time pro, just looking for opinions that some of us might be able to use as a yardstick for helping out in making that tough decision.Thanks.

[jaypie77]

I think you'll probably know yourself when the time comes... If you don't have a lucky break and you don't fall into pro photography smoothly, you'll just have to take some risks.

Also, you should probably be pretty good at photography.

[Stemmy]

The only criteria that you have to take into mind is "can I support myself and continue to support myself as a full time photographer".

Its ok to book the weddings and portraits and consider yourself busy but if your product is not up to scratch then the bookings will soon dry up. It takes years to build a good reputation but days to get a bad one. Dont be hasty build your business whilst doing what you are doing now, then when you feel the time is right take the plunge. you will not regret it.

My business do 65 weddings a year and plenty of portraits and commercial work and I still say it beats working for a living!!!!!!

[Mike Panic]

criteria? a business card that says you are a pro.

i work at a camera shop and used to work retail before moving elsewhere in the company. when reviewing photos w/ customers, offering suggestions and tips on how to shoot things that didnt come out the way they thought they would (say a family vactation or childs baseball game, etc) and going over how i may have dont it differantly, the common answer was, "well you are a pro". just cuz i work at acamera shop doesnt make me a pro... but i would respond, "pro is just a name... im a photographer... and therefor i now deam you a pro photographer and chuckle w/ them.

this isnt like major league sports where you have to be good thru h/s, get a scholarship to college and get drafted by a team. being a "pro" photographer means you need to conduct yourself like one, thats all.

when i was 20 yeras old i was on assignments for major magazines in the electronic music industry. i spoke well, communicated thru emails in a professional manor, had business cards and was always willing to meet and greet new people and made sure my assignemnts were turned in on time.

yes being able to support yourself is a major part, but should not be the only critiera. i know a lot of photographers that are extremely talented that do not want to do weddings or h/s portraits for a living, so they do other work, and work of their own that they enjoy and shop around for gallery openings. so dont stick to the norm of saying, ok... i need to do X and Y to make Z... its not always the case.

being a pro is more of a mindset. think of the differance between someone working a register at mcdonalds and at a fine resturant where dinners are $200/plate. both the kid at mcd's and the server at the resturant are doing the same job... listening to you, taking your order and then giving you what you ordered, followed by taking your money. just 2 differant ways of going about it, but essentially doing the same job

[swatcop169]

criteria? a business card that says you are a pro.

i work at a camera shop and used to work retail before moving elsewhere in the company. when reviewing photos w/ customers, offering suggestions and tips on how to shoot things that didnt come out the way they thought they would (say a family vactation or childs baseball game, etc) and going over how i may have dont it differantly, the common answer was, "well you are a pro". just cuz i work at acamera shop doesnt make me a pro... but i would respond, "pro is just a name... im a photographer... and therefor i now deam you a pro photographer and chuckle w/ them.

this isnt like major league sports where you have to be good thru h/s, get a scholarship to college and get drafted by a team. being a "pro" photographer means you need to conduct yourself like one, thats all.

when i was 20 yeras old i was on assignments for major magazines in the electronic music industry. i spoke well, communicated thru emails in a professional manor, had business cards and was always willing to meet and greet new people and made sure my assignemnts were turned in on time.

yes being able to support yourself is a major part, but should not be the only critiera. i know a lot of photographers that are extremely talented that do not want to do weddings or h/s portraits for a living, so they do other work, and work of their own that they enjoy and shop around for gallery openings. so dont stick to the norm of saying, ok... i need to do X and Y to make Z... its not always the case.

being a pro is more of a mindset. think of the differance between someone working a register at mcdonalds and at a fine resturant where dinners are $200/plate. both the kid at mcd's and the server at the resturant are doing the same job... listening to you, taking your order and then giving you what you ordered, followed by taking your money. just 2 differant ways of going about it, but essentially doing the same job

Great advice.

[lmelendez]

I read in another thread something that I believe is true:

One last thing before I crawl back into my hole...

I heard someone a while back say:

"Amatures practice until they get it right... Professionals practice until they don't get it wrong!"

That quote has been effective many times at bringing me back down to earth.

Live long and prosper...

I think it applies here too and it also applies to many fields. Yes, you have to be able to sustain yourself (make a living), but I also think that your work has to demostrate that you know what you are doing.

Leo

[mikesd]

Agree totally Bloo, great answers with Mike's being exceptional. With it being so hard to nail down excatly what qualifies someone to be a pro, I guess its just as hard to define why someone would not qualified to be a pro also. It seems the closet we can get is someone having the ability to get hired and sell their work on a consistant basis.

[Mike Panic]

thanks for all the positive responces. just for s&g i went to dictionary.com to look up professional and amateur

pro·fes·sion·al ( P ) Pronunciation Key (pr-fsh-nl)
adj.

Of, relating to, engaged in, or suitable for a profession: lawyers, doctors, and other professional people.
Conforming to the standards of a profession: professional behavior.
Engaging in a given activity as a source of livelihood or as a career: a professional writer.
Performed by persons receiving pay: professional football.
Having or showing great skill; expert: a professional repair job

am·a·teur ( P ) Pronunciation Key (m-tûr, -tr, -chr, -chr, -tyr)
n.
A person who engages in an art, science, study, or athletic activity as a pastime rather than as a profession.
Sports. An athlete who has never accepted money, or who accepts money under restrictions specified by a regulatory body, for participating in a competition.
One lacking the skill of a professional, as in an art.

[chtgrubbs]

Back in the dark ages when I started we defined a professional photogapher as someone with 6 cameras and a working spouse.

[jonniewalton]

chtgrubbs

that was funny!

[Jon, The Elder]

Just remember - there is a difference between a courtesan and a hooker. Its all a matter of degree.

[Avalonthas]

just keep shooting and one day ull be a "pro". You will know ur a "pro" when u make enough money to take care of a family and buy all the gadgets neccessary to stay on top of the game.

[Mike Panic]

just keep shooting and one day ull be a "pro". You will know ur a "pro" when u make enough money to take care of a family and buy all the gadgets neccessary to stay on top of the game.

sorry - i disagree w/ you... i do not think it is about being able to make enough loot to... anything.

if being a "pro" photographer were soley about making money, we wouldnt have such amazing artists who shoot for the mear reason of shooting...

[w10d]

sorry - i disagree w/ you... i do not think it is about being able to make enough loot to... anything.

if being a "pro" photographer were soley about making money, we wouldnt have such amazing artists who shoot for the mear reason of shooting...


Mike, look back at your dictionary quotes: Being a 'Pro' is all about making a living (& running a business). You might be a fantastic, incredible photographer whose pictures are the envy of professional photographers, but you're not a pro unless your income comes from photography. On the other hand you may be sick to death of photography, but still do it day in day out, because it's your livelihood & the only one you have.

Quality of work doesn't always come into it & that 'aint always the photographers fault: When budgets are tight clients book photographers who are cheap and 'just good enough' - not because their genius shines like a beacon for all to see. What that does over time is force downwards the overall quality of professional output (I don't mean on an individual level). That can't happen to amateurs, they are doing it for enjoyment.

[KennyG]

What BD says is true this side of the water as well. Very few, less than 10% of photographers you would regard as pros, support themselves by taking and selling pictures.

Prices for all photographic work has been driven down to a point where even some of the most talented take a 'day job' to pay the mortgage or simply give up all together. Why? Well, when Fred with his 300D will do a wedding for 50 bucks, or Joe will give his local paper pictures for free just to see his name print, there is no profit in the game for the pro. Fred and Joe already have primary incomes so 50 bucks is simply some nice beer money for playing pro wedding photog for the day. The pro has to make a profit or he will starve or go out of business.

You can't con your way into being a pro. If you don't have talent, no amount of sweet talk or a bag full of 1Ds MK-II's will make you a good photographer and you will be found out by the results of your work. Talent first, pro second.

I'll give anyone interested in becoming a sports photog a simple test. Sell one image to a recognised sports magazine. If you can't do that, then either improve your game or look to do something else. It may sound brutal, but if you want to make a living out of it (even supplemental), you have to find out if you have what it takes. Not just the talent to take pictures, but the skill and business accumen to get paid for your work. If you run away the first time you hear the word 'no' then you won't make it for sure. If you stick at it until they take notice of you and your work is good enough, then you can hang the pro sign on your door.

It is a business, no different from the guy who makes furniture or landscapes gardens. If you don't want to run a business, then be a very talented amateur. Or, if you want to keep you full time job and supplement your income from photography and you achieve that, you are a pro along with the other 90%.

[KennyG]

if being a "pro" photographer were soley about making money, we wouldnt have such amazing artists who shoot for the mear reason of shooting...

Mike, you are confusing Artist with Pro. Most great artists starved to death because they could not afford to eat. Being a pro is not the same as being an artist and people should learn to recognise the difference. Pro's will generally earn enough to eat.

[w10d]

However, to say that one must derive all of his income from photography would exclude about 90% of the working photographers from the category. Those employed in the photographic profession are a lot like others engaged in other arts; most do it as supplemental income (if any income at all) and make less than $4,000.00 per year at it. (This may be a bad figure. I'm working from the 2000 census).

How many full-time musicians are there? Are the part-timers who teach school and then play once per week in a community orchestra not professionals?


90% of pro photographers don't make a living from photography? Is that what you're saying? Sounds like one hell of a bad career move to me - surprising anyone would want to claim to be a pro photographer if the pay is THAT bad!

Look, people fly planes, fish, play football, race cars, bake cakes, act in plays, make models, for a living. Day in day out. Other people do the same things all for fun. But they don't call themselves PRO just because they won a race, or baked the biggest cake in Belgium... Why are so many people keen to claim the title 'professional photographer'? (As for the community orchestra/teacher: No your profession would be teaching, just like a drama teacher who only performs in Amateur dramatics)

Also, what are those 90% of photographers who are selling their work, but funding it with day jobs, doing for the chances of the 10% of photographers who are just trying to make a living???

[w10d]

But I still wonder about the newspaper stringer who can't survive on the work he gets and has to work as a waiter. What is he then---a professional waiter?
-snip-

I don't have a problem conferring the status of professional upon a guy who makes $10,000.00 a year at making GREAT portraits while I pulled down much more than that as a hack (but ostensibly professional) wedding photographer. In my mind, it isn't such a cut-and-dry call.


Good post Bloo Dog

Have to admit I've been painting this as Black & White, when of course nothing in life is that simple. In photography there are plenty of shades of grey between amateur & professional. But what was bugging me is the 'take a good picture & your a pro' attitude I keep hearing. Being a pro is about running a business, climbing a career ladder against the competition, being able to deliver a result to a brief, on time & in budget, and on an on and on.... Very little of it has anything to do with actually being a good photographer - that is the EASIEST part! Perhaps that explains the earlier quote that 90% of photographers don't make a living <g>

Can we heap praise on the talented photographers who earn that praise, but leave the pro title to the 'few' who manage to pay the rent without a part-time job?

[epeace]

this 90% figure . . . whos figure is that? and what are they considering to be pro?

thats got to be including the uncle freds and cousin ermas of the world who got $50 and a steak dinner for taking a picture of the restaurants mascot dog for the mens bathroom . . . god knows there are a jillion photography enthusiasts in this world and i would guess a great majority of them fancy themselves some kind of pro . .

[PhotosGuy]

Just remember - there is a difference between a courtesan and a hooker. Its all a matter of degree. Good point. I would have expected Kenny to have come up with that! ;):D