Help Needed >> Is this Filter Flare?

[pradeep1]

I read this article tonight: http://www.luminous-landscape.com/columns/sm-feb-05.shtml

And was thinking about some strange flare problems I see in my photos sometimes when I am using a 420 EX E-TTL flash on my G3. I cannot predict when it will happen, but I see it in indoor and outdoor shots.

I have a Hoya HMC (multi-coated) filter on my camera and it is always very clean. There was no water, obstruction, fingerprints, etc. on the filter when these photos were taken. Nor was there any smoke or anything like that in the air that would cause this.

http://www.photo.net/photodb/image-display?photo_id=3096090&size=lg
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http://www.photo.net/photodb/image-display?photo_id=3096089&size=lg
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http://www.photo.net/photodb/image-display?photo_id=3096088&size=lg
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http://www.photo.net/photodb/image-display?photo_id=3096087&size=lg

[robertwgross]

Classic lens flare, in each case.

Try taking off the filter and see if that helps.

In at least a couple of those cases, you've got a hot point of light almost directly into the lens, and that will do it. When the light is that direct, even a lens hood may not help any.

---Bob Gross---

[pradeep1]

But how about on the Elvis monument? Where is the hot point there...my flash unit on top of my camera? And what is interesting is that this is not consistent...it only happens once in a while when using a flash.

[FlyingPete]

Actually it could be something else that I have often seen when using a flash, especially the third shot. I have also had it happen with my G3/420EX combo.

It could be air borne dust particles, some of these can reflect the flash light, and if they are out of focus appear as you are seeing them, I have some really good examples of this, but from really dusty environments, I have also seen rain do it.

Just a thought, but the second shot and the elvis shot do look like lens flare.

[robertwgross]

But how about on the Elvis monument? Where is the hot point there...my flash unit on top of my camera? And what is interesting is that this is not consistent...it only happens once in a while when using a flash.

I wasn't there on that day, so I can't say for sure. However, a marble monument like that can have a very smooth reflective surface, and the flare will appear one place and not appear at another place.

Once in a while, the reflected light will come off something weird in the background that you didn't even know was there. From the position of your head and eyeball behind the camera, you don't see it, but the front of your camera lens can see it, so the flare bites you in the butt.

---Bob Gross---

[Tom W]

The context of this thread, and another thread on another web site (I'm cheating on y'all) provoked me to take this series of images. All were shot with a very bright flashlight shining into the camera lens, just off to the left. Granted, its a worst-case situation, but I think it demonstrates the effects of filters on flare.

first, the lens without filter:
http://www.pbase.com/photosbytom/image/39521573.jpg


Now, the inexpensive Canon UV/Haze filter (note the drastic increase in flare):
http://www.pbase.com/photosbytom/image/39521574.jpg


And finally, with a Hoya Super HMC multicoated UV filter (note that it is very close to the unfiltered image):
http://www.pbase.com/photosbytom/image/39521575.jpg

[pradeep1]

Thank you all for the diagnosis. I didn't even think about flare in the Elvis monument. I can see the hot spots on the previous three photos, but the Elvis monument eluded me. But after seeing Tom W's demonstration, I can see how even a good super HMC filter can flare. It's actually the lens flaring...to be accurate.

Hmmm...something to think about. I wonder if a lens hood would have helped to cut down on flare? It probably would on the first three photos with their offset hotspots, but I don't think it would help much on the Elvis monument.

[pradeep1]

Actually it could be something else that I have often seen when using a flash, especially the third shot. I have also had it happen with my G3/420EX combo.

It could be air borne dust particles, some of these can reflect the flash light, and if they are out of focus appear as you are seeing them, I have some really good examples of this, but from really dusty environments, I have also seen rain do it.

Just a thought, but the second shot and the elvis shot do look like lens flare.

Pete, post a photo or two of this. I would like to see it.

[pradeep1]

I wasn't there on that day, so I can't say for sure. However, a marble monument like that can have a very smooth reflective surface, and the flare will appear one place and not appear at another place.
---Bob Gross---

I was thinking about your comment, but I realized that the marble wasn't reflective....I should know, I am in the business of making monuments like that. But then after looking at a few other photos, especially of Elvis's grave, I realized that it had been raining that day, hence the marble would have developed a shine from that. Never caught that. Thanks. :rolleyes:

[Tom W]

Thank you all for the diagnosis. I didn't even think about flare in the Elvis monument. I can see the hot spots on the previous three photos, but the Elvis monument eluded me. But after seeing Tom W's demonstration, I can see how even a good super HMC filter can flare. It's actually the lens flaring...to be accurate.

Hmmm...something to think about. I wonder if a lens hood would have helped to cut down on flare? It probably would on the first three photos with their offset hotspots, but I don't think it would help much on the Elvis monument.

A lens hood would have helped significantly with my test, but I deliberately left it off to demonstrate the mess that a well-placed light (or poorly placed) could cause. My real goal was to show how a cheap filter could really mess things up, but I thought the series of images fit this thread topic as well.

[pradeep1]

A lens hood would have helped significantly with my test, but I deliberately left it off to demonstrate the mess that a well-placed light (or poorly placed) could cause. My real goal was to show how a cheap filter could really mess things up, but I thought the series of images fit this thread topic as well.

Yes, your pictures were very useful....especially as a caveat against using cheap filters.

[Don Schaeffer]

Sometimes it looks like drops of moisture on the lens--you can see micro-detail in the artifact.
--Don

[r0nbo]

I bought a new S50 a year or so ago and it would make the same circles in a pic but they were always in the same place and not in every picture. I took it back to where I got it and they gave me another one which has never done this. No-one had any idea what caused the spots.