More -=Top Ten=- lens Polls, Wide Angles?

[CyberDyneSystems]

**EDIT**

the last in this series.. is close to Prime time Voiting..

But since we looked at this, several new wide and ultra-wide angle lenses have arrived on the market...

ALSO we now can have more choices for polls due to software upgrades.

the last page or so of this thread discusses Wide angles... please add your suggestions for must have wdie angle lenses :)

I expect to put up the actual poll this weekend :)














Understand that with these next step catagories we are assuming that we are moving beyond all around do evrything lenses, at low budget points into more specific use lenses where budget becomes less of an obsticle.


************************************

Wildlife:

With this one, we have a tougher time, as the best lenses,. those we might recommend at the top of the list,. are lenses few of us can afford or have even used. Many may vote for a lens they have never even seen in person.

Using a list including the "big guns" I fear that once the Canon and Sigma monsters are listed that leaves little room for the ones we actually do often use and recomend?

Should we then list the Big dream lenses seperately,. ? Just say up front,. "well f you want the best and have the cash just get the 600mm,.. but other wise look at this list"

???


Here's the whole shooting match as I see it,..
How can we whittle this down to ten lenses?

Canon:
EF 600mm f/4L IS
EF 500mm f/4L IS
EF 500mm f/4.5L (used)
EF 400mm f/2.8L IS
EF 400mm f/4DO
EF 400mm f/5.6L
EF 300mm f/2.8L IS
EF 300mm f/4L IS
EF 100-400mm f/5.6L IS
EF 70-300mm f/5.6DO IS
EF 75-300mm
EF 70-200mm f/2.8L
EF 70-200mm f/4L

Sigma:
500mm f/4.5 EX HSM
800mm f/5.6 EX HSM
300-800mm f/5.6 EX HSM
50-500mm f/4.5-6.3 EX HSM
120-300mm f/2.8 EX HSM
100-300mm f/4 EX HSM
70-200mm f/2.8 EX HSM


************************************

Portrait:

EF 50mm f/1.4
EF 85mm f/1.8
EF 85mm f/1.2L
EF 100mm f/2L
EF 100mm f/2.8 Macro
EF 135mm f/2L
EF 24-70mm f/2.8L
EF Tamron 28-75 f/2.8 XR DI

*Added*
EF 50mm f/1.8
EF 135mm f/2.8 Soft focus
200mm f/2.8L

I know that there are many other great lenses that work well for portriats,. but if asked specifically for a lens to use only for portrait work.. cost not a huge concern,.. what else am I missing?



************************************
Sports:

EF 300mm f/2.8L IS
EF 400mm f/2.8L IS
Sigma 120-300mm f/2.8 EX HSM
Sigma 300mm f/2.8 EX HSM
EF 300mm f/4L IS
EF 200mm f/1.8L
EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS
EF 70-200mm f/4L
Sigma 100-300mm f/4 EX HSM
EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS

*Added*
EF 85mm f/1.8
EF 135mm f/2L
200mm f/2.8L
Sigma 70-200mm f/2.8 EX HSM

A little easier in sports lenses,. especially considering we could easily knock of the Sigma 300mm prime as I do not recall it ever being recomeded here despite it's being a nice bit of glass...

What am I missing?

************************************

Catagories:

What other catagories do we need a specific list for?

Landscape? This is problematic as what defines it....

Wide Angle? Doesn't fit our mold as we have "sports" and "Wildlife" as opposed to "telephoto"

Do we need a "Macro"? The choices here are relatively obvious limited.


Thanks ;)

[Tom W]

135 mm f/2.8 soft-focus.

[pcasciola]

We leaving the 50 f/1.8 out?

Like the wildlife list isn't big enough already, it might be worth listing the extenders.

Sports is missing the 85 f/1.8 and 135 f/2L, which are both excelling indoor available light sports lens. I also think sports needs to be broken down more. A 100-400L is not going to do very well at an indoor basketball game, and a 400mm f/2.8 is great on a 1D Mk II but a little long on a 20D. Maybe just sports and then outdoor / indoor?

Wide angle is a huge pain because of the x-factor. 17mm is great, but not on a 1.6x body. Might be worth mentioning a few though, maybe bundle lancscape in there as well as architecture and real estate.

Wide angle/landscape/architecture lens is mainly an x-factor conversation, so not sure what to do there.

[Tom W]

Wildlife:

With this one, we have a tougher time, as the best lenses,. those we might recommend at the top of the list,. are lenses few of us can afford or have even used. Many may vote for a lens they have never even seen in person.

Using a list including the "big guns" I fear that once the Canon and Sigma monsters are listed that leaves little room for the ones we actually do often use and recomend?

Should we then list the Big dream lenses seperately,. ? Just say up front,. "well f you want the best and have the cash just get the 600mm,.. but other wise look at this list"




Here's the whole shooting match as I see it,..
How can we whittle this down to ten lenses?

Canon:
EF 600mm f/4L IS
EF 500mm f/4L IS
EF 500mm f/4.5L (used)
EF 400mm f/2.8L IS
EF 400mm f/4DO
EF 400mm f/5.6L
EF 300mm f/2.8L IS
EF 300mm f/4L IS
EF 100-400mm f/5.6L IS
EF 70-300mm f/5.6DO IS
EF 75-300mm
EF 70-200mm f/2.8L
EF 70-200mm f/4L

Sigma:
500mm f/4.5 EX HSM
800mm f/5.6 EX HSM
300-800mm f/5.6 EX HSM
50-500mm f/4.5-6.3 EX HSM
120-300mm f/2.8 EX HSM
100-300mm f/4 EX HSM
70-200mm f/2.8 EX HSM


I can't speak for the Sigma lenses, as I don't know the prices without looking them up. But, the Canon selection can almost be divided into two categories - Below $1500 and above. There's a big price differential when you go to a larger entrance lens. Basically, anything that is larger than the 400 f/5.6 falls into the high-priced category which prohibits many from buying.

These are on the very high-priced side:

EF 600mm f/4L IS
EF 500mm f/4L IS
EF 500mm f/4.5L (used) **Not sure on the price on this one**
EF 400mm f/2.8L IS
EF 400mm f/4DO
EF 300mm f/2.8L IS

While these fall into the more "affordable" range:

EF 300mm f/4L IS
EF 100-400mm f/5.6L IS
EF 70-300mm f/5.6DO IS
EF 70-200mm f/2.8L
EF 70-200mm f/4L
EF 200 f/2.8L **could be a portrait lens as well, given enough studio space**

And, of course, the very affordable range:

EF 75-300mm
EF 100-300mm USM
EF 55-200mm

[Orogeny]

Portrait: EF 50mm 1/8

Sports: Sigma 70-200mm 1/2.8 EX HSM

Tim

[CyberDyneSystems]

Excellent input..

In the beginning lens catagoriy we put the two 50's in one spot,. mainly becuase otherwise we would have had to bump another lens...

Dpending on the numbers we end up with they may be bunched together again in portrait etc...

135mm soft focus! thanks!

...and of course the 85 and 135 in sports too...
As for 100-400mm,. excellent for out door motor sports ;)

So.. maybe there is a division there,.. outdoor sports and Venue/performance/event/indoor sports lenses?

there will be some crossover,. but it means that ,. for outdoor sports for instance,. many more lenses like the 100-400mm would be more reasonable.

[Tom W]

A daunting task. Maybe it might be better to build a list of each lens, outlining its strengths and weaknesses. For example:

Canon 50 mm f/1.4: Very suitable for low-light portrature, particularly on the 1.6X cameras. Limited use for indoor sports, due to the slightly slower autofocus scheme. Very sharp from f/2.5 up.

[CyberDyneSystems]

Tom,. on Wildlife I'm stuck...
At the outset,. I did NOT want to beak up catagories into smaller price points,. as it is great to see side by side a 300.00 lens hold it's own against a 1,200.00 lens.

With Wildlife though we have the compounded issue of simply too many to whittle down to ten, so as you suggest,. it may be an absolute neccesity. The Sigma's break up pretty much like the Canon's,. but I'd probably make the cut off an even $2,000.00 leaving the 70-200mm IS and "allmost" the 120-300mm Sigma in the "under" catagory.

Than ALL of the Big fast primes would pretty much be on there own... save for the monstrous Sigma 300-800mm f/5.6 EX which clearly belongs in the BIG GUN category zoom or not ;)

[Scottes]

I like Tom W's idea a lot, but would try to add a statement about "value for cost" - "50mm f/1.8 is a great lens for the money" and "If you've got the cash, the Canon 60mm f/4 L is the lens to get." Or something like that.

[Tom W]

The 60 mm f/4 would be perfect. :)

[Longwatcher]

For categories,
You are missing

- Best Indoor event lens
subcategorys:
--Wedding
--Concert
--Bar/lounge

- Best Photojournalism lens (which I thing will be which ever you have on your camera at the time, but maybe there are best lenses to keep on camera for this)

- Street photography lens (while part of me thinks portrait lens would work, the other part says either a wide angle or a long lens might be better)

And you left off my pet lens and best for sports/wildlife and also completely outside the range of any person with an income below filthy rich; the ever popular 1200mm. After all if it is good enough for SI and National Geographic it should be good enough for our lists. ;)

[Jon]

How about "Wildlife - long and fast" (400 mm f/4 on up/fanatical) and "Wildlife - practical (intermediate?)".
Sports is looking at (at least) two categories as well - indoor and outdoor. What to do about the auto and air racing followers? Or maybe they fall in the "wildlife" category (for that matter, maybe sports and wildlife overlap).
I'd be inclined to consider "Wide angle" as a separate category; if someone wants a wide, it doesn't much matter what they're planning on shooting, be it landscapes, street scenes, whatever. The deciding factors are going to be pretty similar, and they're going to ask "what wide is good?". For sports/wildlife/portrait, it's easier to look at a lens and say "yes, it's great" or "no - it won't do because it's too . . . whatever", like the 70-200s get recommended for sports but never for wildlife.

[KevC]

Russian Fishy maybe? MC Zenitar 16mm f/2.8. Cheap Fishy...

[Jon]

Russian Fishy maybe? MC Zenitar 16mm f/2.8. Cheap Fishy...
. . . but in what category?

[CyberDyneSystems]

So we'd be looking to do;

Wildlife:
"Highend"
and
"More affordable"

Sports/Event/venue photography:

Outdoor/daylight
this would include autoracing, team games and aircraft etc.

Indoor/events/Arena:
Not just sports, as the same good lenses for basketball etc are great for dance, concerts etc. Here we are just talking about fast lenses with fast AF. The primary differences between one choice vs. another becomes focal length. In all these cases I am not at all concerned about trying to pidgeon hole focal ranges,. as we should know when we need an 85mm f/1.8 Vs. a 400mm f/2.8

Portrait/Studio
Just added the word studio,.. not sure we need to..

Photo-journalism/Street photography/
...are we coming full circle to the so called "walk around lens" ?
Clearly we did not cover any of the high end options in the first "starter" lens top ten,. (24-70mm f/2.8L) .. so perhaps we touch base again... with broader parameters and budget? To my mind,. Photojournalism AND Street photography offer a good place to ecomend some of the more extreme zoom ranges that tend to be a downside for other applications... another good reason to add at least one of these catagories.

O-kay.. I think were shaping up here.. seems no way to avoid at least two wildlife catagories and at least two "Sports" catagories,. with the addition of indoor venue work as well...

[Jon]

Is there a category where you'd reasonably expect to see wide angle lenses (especially the extremes)? street photography, maybe events I suppose. I almost think that ultra-wides are their own thing - if you like them, you'll use them as often as you can, whatever the subject.

[CyberDyneSystems]

Oh yeah.. I forgot to list that.. :)

We allready seem to have agreed that there is no specific type of photography where wide is the only option... (much as people associate it with landscape) so bucking the trend of all the other catagories,. I agree,. we need a -=Top Ten=- Ultra Wide angle lens recommendation poll... where fisheye can certainly be included ;)

[Canuck]

How about like this based on what they are used for/cost:

Wildlife:
Entry level:
Canon EF 100-300mm f/4.5-5.6 USM @ $260

Next step up:
Sigma 100-300 F4EX @ $900

Higher still:
Canon 100-400 F4.5-5.6 (IS) @ $??? ($1410)
Sigma 120-300mm F2.8EX @ $1900

Blow a huge hole in your pocket:
Sigma 300-800 F5.6EX @ $4500

[CyberDyneSystems]

We Need Wide angle recommendations

By far the most recomended is

EF 17-40mm f/4L

Followed by

EF 16-35mm f/2.8L
Tokina 17mm ATX
EFs 10-22mm

We used to see a lot of mention of;
Sigma 15-30mm EX,. but seems to have been eclipsed by new offerings like,
Sigma 12-24mm EX

Wide Primes? What gets recomended?

[Tom W]

EF 24/1.4L - great lens
EF 35/1.4L - don't have one.... yet.....
15mm f/2.8 fisheye - well-liked also
15mm Sigma fisheye - People seem to like this one as well.
EF 35/2 - good things come in small, relatively inexpensive packages.

[Tom W]

Whoops - forgot the Sigma 20/1.8 - weird focus scheme, but good image quality. QC is spotty, so you have to get a good one.

[CyberDyneSystems]

Thanks Tom,. I was thinking the Sigma 1.8 line,. only seem to see the 20mm mentioned though,..it does seem to get some positive attention.

It semes it and the Tokina are the only non Canon primes we see around here often,..

[Lensdude]

Check out this German site and see how well your favourite lens tested...
http://www.photozone.de/2Equipment/easytxt.htm

[Andy_T]

CDS,

how wide do you want to go?
More up to the point ... what focal lengths do you want to include?
24 mm is wide on the 1Ds, but not so wide on the 1.3 and 1.6 crop bodies. Maybe the cutoff should be somewhere between 20 and 24.

Also, this poll might be the most suitable to include the 18-55 kit and the 17-85 EF-S lenses.

Some more exotic options:
Canon EF 15 mm FE
Zenitar 16 mm FE (M42 manual lens)
Peleng 8 mm FE (M42 manual lens)

Best regards,
Andy

[Andy_T]

And ...

what about the Canon EF 20-35/2.8 L (used)?

I've seen this lens (used) sometimes on eBay recently.
At the auctions I saw, $ 420 for a used lens in good condition seemed like a real bargain to me for a 2.8 L lens, even if it is not *that* wide.
Unfortunately, I would have a hard time justifying a new lens to my wife, at the moment :confused:.

Best regards,
Andy

[pierrot]

MC Zenitar 16mm f/2.8 (fisheye)

[CyberDyneSystems]

Wide angles
listed in this thread.. this should be all mentioned thus far....

ZOOMS
EF 17-40mm f/4L
EF 16-35mm f/2.8L
EFs 10-22mm
EFS 18-55mm
EFS 17-85mm IS
Sigma 12-24mm EX
EF 20-35/2.8 L


PRIMES
EF 24 f/1.4L
EF 35 f/1.4L
EF 35 f/2
EF 15mm f/2.8 fisheye
Sigma 15mm fisheye
Sigma 20mm f/1.8
Tokina 17mm ATX
Russian Zenitar 16mm Fisheye
Peleng 8 mm FishEye


O-kay,. were up to 16 Wide angle lenses suggested for the last poll...
I think we need to knock a few off the fianl list,. but I'm not sure which or how?

On the other hand we could do what we did with Wildlife lenses and make two polls One for ZOOMS and One for PRIMES.. in which case we need more of each for the list.. which would in fact be easy,. especially with both Tokina and Tamron running to get there new ultra wide zooms reviewed ...

what do you think,. make sense? two polls and find more lense,. we need at least ten of each,. ZOOM and PRIME.

[velvetjones]

You know, I really don't know why the Canon 20mm f/2.8 never gets any love. I had this lens for a long time and thought that it was a great lens. I have trouble accepting that this lens is inferior to the Sigma 20mm f/1.8, but I haven't really ever used that lens.

The Canon was very sharp and I had great results from it. I wish I still had it now, but I sold it after I got the 17-40mm L. Anyway, I'd like to give my vote to this lesns, as it is highly overlooked, and underrated.

[cc10d]

Llike the EF 16-35 2.8 a lot.

[Vita Rara]

If you want two polls just add the 14mm primes from Canon, Sigma and Tamron to the list. That'll make the prime list longer and it's kind of harder to get wider without going to a fish eye. I'd also really like to know peoples experience with them.

Mark

[pcasciola]

I agree at least one or two of the 14mm primes should be in there, because they're the widest rectilinear primes currently available in an EF mount.

I think having two 35s on this list is kinda strange, especially since for 10D/20D/300D/350D users the effective FOV for those is over 50mm. They're both great lenses, but only wide for 1Ds and 1Ds Mk II owners.

[Longwatcher]

I would make the suggestion that as I and a lot of others always recommend the kit lenses when you get the camera there may be no need to include them as most people should have them already. Other then with the camera, I always recommend other lenses after that. And have similiar remarks from others.

Otherwise I think you have the list.

I do suspect that the reason a lot of people recommend the 17-40 over the 16-35 is cost, there is a huge difference in cost for 1mm on the wide side and one stop of aperture. especially given that the most likely use other then landscape (when there is plenty of light) is indoors when only a flash will make a difference. So the aperture is not normally a huge advantage as it seems to be on longer lenses.

Lastly, I think that zooms and primes should be separated

Just some thoughts on wide angles.

[CyberDyneSystems]

Good stuff,. excellent points and recomendations,. and I think with two polls we can definitley fit them all in! :)

After I drop the two sports threads out of "stickydom" well do either one or both of the wide polls,.. One for Prime,. one for Zoom.

[CyberDyneSystems]

One last thing,..

This will be the last poll/polls,.. once the wide angles are done, we will have covered all we set out to do here...

Unless anyone sees any thing we missed completely?

There was one other thought for continuing this line of threads... sort of a phase two.

What about a set of "side by side shootouts" ??

We could every week or so post a two lens poll of the lenses that are continously compared side by each .... the most obvious and oft repeated being the 100-400mm IS Vs. 70-200mm IS shoot out...

We'd have the poll results and the heated posts and discussions saved for future borwsers in links in the -=TOP 10=- sticky along with the larger -=TOP 10=- polls...

Do we like it? Do we care?
Are we sick of lens polls (sure looks that way based on the votes for Sports lenses Vs. the others)

? ;)

[Andy_T]

CDS ... What about the Canon EF 15 mm FE?

If the Zenitar and Peleng are included, this might also be interesting for many people.

As to future threads ... what about a 'walk-around' lens thread :wink:
Or would that be the same as the 'starter' lenses thread?

Best regards,
Andy

[Andy_T]

Whatever happened to the wide angle poll?

Just curious.

Best regards,
Andy

[CyberDyneSystems]

Was giving it some time,. the last two polls.. (sports lenses) drew an almost toal lack of interest as compared to the prior polls... even a lot of our familiar sports shooters on the forum never voted ...

But yes,. when I get the time I'll get this one together.

[Andy_T]

I deliberately did not partake in the last polls, as I don't have any experience shooting sports (yet).

Most likely this was also shared by others.

But I'm eager for the wide angle poll (though the 17-40 will win anyway :p )

Best regards,
Andy

[Jon]

The 15-30 Sigma's still a good one.

[condyk]

But yes,. when I get the time I'll get this one together.

But I need the answers Now, Now, Now ... really, I do :cry: :cry: ;)

[Tom W]

I'll be taking possession of a Canon 20 mm f/2.8 USM within a few days. I'll post my opinions on the lens after I play with it a bit. The price was right. :)

[CyberDyneSystems]

BUMP!

O-kay the wait has been long but,.. the last in this series.. is close to Prime time Voting..

But since we looked at this, several new wide and ultra-wide angle lenses have arrived on the market...

ALSO we now can have more choices for polls due to software upgrades.

Please add your suggestions for must have wide angle lenses

Belwo are what I had so far.. but there are several newer models that should be added.

Wide angles


ZOOMS
EF 17-40mm f/4L
EF 16-35mm f/2.8L
EF 20-35/2.8 L
EFs 10-22mm
EFS 18-55mm
Sigma 12-24mm F4.5-5.6 EX DG HSM
Sigma 10-20mm F4-5.6 EX DC HSM
Sigma 18-50mm F2.8 EX DC
Tamron SP AF17-35MM F/2.8-4 Di LD
Tamron SP AF11-18MM F/4.5-5.6 Di II LD
Tokina 12-24mm f/4 AT-X124 AF PRO DX
Tokina 20-35mm f/2.8 AT-X 235 AF PRO


PRIMES
EF 14mm L
EF 24 f/1.4L
EF 35 f/1.4L
EF 35 f/2
EF 20mm f/2.8
EF 15mm f/2.8 fisheye
SIgma 14mm EX
Sigma 15mm fisheye
Sigma 20mm f/1.8
Tokina 17mm ATX
Russian Zenitar 16mm Fisheye
Peleng 8 mm FishEye

[Jon]

Sigma's 15-30 f/3.5-4.5 EX DG. Not as wide as their 12-24, but a tad faster, and a close match in coverage to the 16-35 L.

[Jon]

Also - in the poll it might be helpful to separate the DC/EF-S lenses from the full-frame ones.