Another "Do I need a release?" thread

[Ghostfly]

Okay, I have a situation that has developed - I'll try to be as concise as possible. I shoot a lot and sell some of my pictures to family and friend on Zenfolio, for a fair rate.

So, Listen to this.:

A month ago, I went to a birthday party and took a whole bunch of pictures. These people are super close friend of ours. Mostly of kids playing, having a good time - there are pics of my kids up there too. They came out pretty good - I have done this before and have gotten some great compliments. My wife's friend sends the link to her buddies and grandparents - evrybody's thrilled. Sidenote: they can by the pics for my cost (I'm not making a dime on this particular job- very dear friends) Just order them off the site - I don't want to be involved. Last night I get home - I get this email:

"Hi Tim,
(Cindy Brady) had forwarded the link of the birthday party pictures to us. Although the pictures of the children are very cute, we would really appreciate if you could remove from your gallery those pictures taken of our daughter as well as those of my niece and nephew. Since we were not asked permission to have their photos placed on a website, even though it may be a secured website accessed only with a password, we are still uncomfortable having them "out there" . The photos in question are numbers 5, 6, 40, 41, 42, 43, 46, 47, 48, 49 & 50.

Thank you for your prompt attention to this request. If you wouldn't mind, please confirm receipt of this message.

Thanks so much!

(Paranoid Parent)"


I immediately took the whole gallery down. Not that I think she's right - just not one to push back - also they are friends of friends.

Please comment - what would you have done? Was I out of line? I don't think so.

Ok, so recently I began shooting local sports - now here again - just looking to make a couple bucks - pay for my gear. Noone else is there - no hired photogs or any body like that to have their toes stepped on.
So I'm concerned. As far as the sports go - I may not be able to sell images (for the few bucks I'm looking to get) without getting a release from everyone that shoot? from everyone I sell pictures too? It's a little confusing. I have permission to be on the field, so that's not an issue. I have read the othe posts, what else is everyone doing? In theory the system would work great - I shoot, upload - buyer selects - MPIX ships! I get my money. I just am a little concerned about the legality.

Please advise - Oh wise ones!

[dontblink]

What are you asking about? If you said No, I am leaving the photos up are you asking if the could sue you or your web host for their removal? Likely photos of a birthday party, even if you are selling individual prints would be considered editorial use and you would not be barred from doing so. Similarly if you sold individual prints of a youth sporting event likely to be ruled editorial use. However, putting together a book of such photos would be commercial.

[Ghostfly]

I'm asking if I was in the wrong? Will I be in the wrong in the future by posting pictures of kids playing sports and selling prints to the "public" via my website?

Could I have told her to go scratch?

[Dennis_Hammer]

As I see it. (There is at least one person I know of who is going to dispute this) you can post the pictures (as long as they are not for sale for commercial use which does not include you selling them). If you put them in a blog they would be considered editorial if you sold the pictures thats not commercial use. Commercial use is to endorse or sell a product or service. But you need no release to even sell them, do you think the paparrazzi gets an actress who they got a shot of in a bad bikini to sign a release.

What I would do is black out the particular faces of that child only not her niece and nephew until you hear from their parents. With a description that the parent of that child wants the identity with held. And then send an email saying the child's face has been obscured.

[ssim]

Why do you think that she is not right. I would respect any parent that requests that pictures of their children not be displayed online. It kind of sounds like you took offense so you basically said, I'll show them, I'll take the whole gallery down.

If you are concerned about being able to shoot sports and post those pictures to try and make some cash there are proper ways to do it. I know that the few organized sports groups that I have been involved with do not wish to have just anyone (excluding parents and relatives) showing up at their games and posting shots of these minors online. I don't do any of this as I find the return to be less than what I like so I have no vested interest in this. The organizing committee of one of these will sanction anyone to shoot as long as they register with the society so that we know who may be doing this. The other one has a handful of approved photographers. Most of these sporting events take place at private facilities so they have every right to limit this.

My children are all raised and are now thinking about granting me a grandchild. I am not really sure how I feel about their shots being online. The photographer in me is fighting the protective relative. There are just so many crazies out there these days and then there are the ones that just like to lift copies for their own personal use.

If you are going to do this as a part time business you are going to run into this more and more. These are legitimate concerns by the parents. I would check with the rules on selling these shots without a model release for your jurisdiction. If you were shooting something that had editorial value you can get around the use rules on this. However, I don't think that you could say a birthday party or 6 year olds playing soccer to have editorial value.

It is not our god given right to shoot and sell whatever we want. I would check with parents before shooting. Even when I do a wedding now I get a signed release from the parents of any flower or ring bearers. Not so much to protect myself legally but to illustrate to the parents that I take it seriously and I am not going to do anything illicit with their child's picture.

Personally, I think that you are making a BFD out of nothing. These isolated instances will continue and you just have to deal with them. One thing that all should be aware of is that they think because they are just doing this for fun and a few dollar here and there that they can't get in too much trouble. Once you take a picture and put it online and sell for money you are a defacto business and are subject to everything that a larger company would be. I pay liability insurance each year. Not so much for this but more so for people that may be injured by tripping over my gear. Everyone is so danged sue happy that you have to take the measures to protect yourself. Either you are a functioning business or you are not. In my area you don't have to have a business license to show that you are acting like one.

I always get releases where possible and this is the best advice that I could give you. It provides a level of protection but it is not the end all be all.