Lithium-Ion Battery

[HKFEVER]

Why Canon not use Lithium-Ion Battery in all the Digital camera to save weight and longer battery life:evil:

[tim]

(post removed because it was incorrect)

[HKFEVER]

Why do they use Li-Ion in 1Ds, 1DMKII and 1DSMKII?

The body is already heavy and plus the hugh battery!!!

[HJMinard]

What type of battery would you suggest?

[HKFEVER]

What type of battery would you suggest?

Did I mention Lithium Ion batteries?

[steven]

I too have wondered this.
With the battery in the 1 series being very heavy, going to a lithium battery would reduce this.
Canon must be making too much on their $100+ charger for comon NiMh batteries.

Also why has not a 3rd party come out with one?

[HJMinard]

Did I mention Lithium Ion batteries?

You did. In your previous post you asked:

Why do they use Li-Ion in 1Ds, 1DMKII and 1DSMKII?

I don't own a 1D, so I'm unfamiliar with what they use. Your question certainly gives the impression that they use Li-Ion (which is Lithium Ion, no?) Am I missing something? (I'm not intending to be rude - I'm just confused by your questions.)

[HKFEVER]

You did. In your previous post you asked:



I don't own a 1D, so I'm unfamiliar with what they use. Your question certainly gives the impression that they use Li-Ion (which is Lithium Ion, no?) Am I missing something? (I'm not intending to be rude - I'm just confused by your questions.)

Sorry typo, it should be why they don't not why they do.:p

[Cadwell]

The 1Ds MarkII and 1D MarkII both use the Canon Ni-MH battery pack NP-E3.

[Leon van Batenburg]

The reason Canon does'nt use Li-ion in high end camera's has been explained by Chuck Westfall of Canon and from my own professional experience with batteries for mobile phones I second his statements:


Nickel-metal-hydride batteries perform better than Li-ion batteries under less than ideal circumstances (e.g. very low or very high temperatures). They also react better to high power drain due to extreme use (e.g. many bursts/series of shots). They just can stand more 'abuse' and keep up the performance. Price you pay is 'just' the weight. Because Li-ion or Lithium Polimeer aren't there yet, Canon uses NiMh batteries for their professional series (so 'performance over weight', if you like). For consumer or prosumer series Li-ion is used (weight over performance).

Greetz, Leon

[robertwgross]

This is a crazy thread, primarily since Canon uses lithium-ion batteries in the majority of its modern digital cameras. If you really wanted to see light weight, then you'd want to look for a lithium primary battery, but Canon doesn't go there.

---Bob Gross---

[CyberDyneSystems]

Actually,. this is a question that has bugged me since I got my first 1D... the batteries in the "1" series are absolute BEASTS and contribute tremendously to the weight in the 1D cameras..

I'd much prefer the "1" series to have removable battery grips with dual BP511's for the weight savings option...

Leon,. thanks for that answer,. I knew of lithiums downsides in these respects.

Now the "Humongous" NPE3 Makes sense.

[mbze430]

Sorry to say, but even NiMH fails in extreme weather. A co-worker left for Russia 2 weeks ago with his 1Ds Mark II, and it was -19C, he was only able to take 1 picture before the battery died.


Of course once he was back in room temperature, everything was working normal again, with out recharging.

[tim]

Electrons get tired and go to sleep when it gets cold ;)

[CyberDyneSystems]

For extremem temps,. there are little chemical hand warmer pcks availble,. one must gaff tape these things to there battery grip and around the camera,.. and keep spares down you pants! :shock:


///is that an NPE3 in your pocket,. or are you just happy to see me?

[tim]

Spare hand warmers, or spare batteries? ;)

[Anders Östberg]

One reason could be backwards compatibility for the 1-series cameras - a pro photographer or a newspaper is likely to already have a whole bunch of batteries, chargers etc and would appreciate that accessories they already have can be used with the new camera bodies they buy.

[steven]

Canon is unwilling to even update their Ni-Mh they still only have the 1600 and there 3rd party providers that have that up to 2200.
They spend their resources looking into the new and don't look at improving what there is.

[HKFEVER]

Does Canon has parts that we can put in 8pcs 2A battery like the 1V has?

[steven]

Not that I'm aware of.
I would buy one if it was.
Too bad they changed the NP-E3 just enough to make in different from the NP-E2 (and BM-E2).

[ron chappel]

Thanks for the good info Leon!

A couple of questions-do the lithium ion batteries have an acurate 'fuel gauge' as part of their design?I've read that this is one of the main benifits of the design.
NiMh aren't very good at this-they seem to show full until about 3/4 empty

And aren't Li ion batteries patented by sony? Maybe another reason for canon to stick with another type?

[tim]

And aren't Li ion batteries patented by sony? Maybe another reason for canon to stick with another type?

That's unlikely to be an issue, as they use them in all their consumer cameras.

[Jon]

A couple of questions-do the lithium ion batteries have an acurate 'fuel gauge' as part of their design?I've read that this is one of the main benifits of the design.
NiMh aren't very good at this-they seem to show full until about 3/4 empty


Another way to look at the NiMH "fuel gauge", or lack thereof, is that the NiMH are providing very steady output until they hit about 3/4 empty.

Some LiIon batteries have enough electronics built in to provide very precise (not necessarily accurate) battery levels. You mostly see them in computers. But those readings, like that of your car's gas tank, need to be taken with a grain of salt. NiMH performance can be compared, with that analogy, to the "low fuel" warning light. But running at 95 with the A/C on and the windows down is going to suck the tank dry in either case.

[robertwgross]

The batteries that are really tricky to use are lithium primary batteries (non-rechargeable lithium). Those have a tremendous shelf life, and they have great ampere-hour capacity, so they last a long time. The problem is that when they run out, they run out in a hurry. The discharge curve is relatively flat until more than 95% of the juice is gone, and then BINGO! They go flat. So, if you have some of those suckers working in a device with a battery life guage expecting an alkaline battery, you will get fooled big time.

---Bob Gross---

[Jon]

Fortunately they're light enough that carrying spares isn't a problem.

[robertwgross]

Fortunately they're light enough that carrying spares isn't a problem.

Absolutely.

Despite their higher cost, lithium primaries are very light in weight. When I head on an overseas trip, I take them in the AA size and 123 size for all my gear that uses those sizes.

Lithium ion rechargeables are much better as an "every day battery".

---Bob Gross---