Made my first approach for a model

[lens pirate]

I made my first approach to a pretty waitress that has been serving me lunch for a few years a day ago. At first she was saying no way... I hate getting my picture taken. Then she thought about it for a while and is now interested.

[fadetoblack22]

Cool. I'm guessing it was quite a shock for her. In today's society some people can be very wary.

[lens pirate]

Yeap she was taken back at first. I just told I though she was beautiful and exotic looking and that I thought I could take some pictures of her that would really bring that out.

[Mark_Cohran]

Many times, a business card with a link to an online portfolio will increase your ability to ask folks to pose for you by allowing them to approach you after seeing some of your work. If you're not to that point yet, consider it something to work toward.

[jbrown7815]

Yeah I meet people al the time, pull out my card and ask them i fthey woul dbe interested in doing photography. It can be awkward, but sometimes successful. The key is the business card.

[JasonSTL739]

Just carry a portfolio of some work and sit with someone looking through it. If done at the right place... you'll get a TON of people interested in shooting with you. Bigger the prints the better of course.

I made the "mistake" of doing this at a Hooter's while interviewing a photographer... I think we ended up shoot at least 3-4 port shoots from that one 30 minutes lunch alone.

[Davidoff]

What do you guys recommend for someone without a portfolio and without friends willing to pose ? ;)

[rebecca12]

Self-portraits :)

[Davidoff]

Ahah, good one :p

[JasonSTL739]

What do you guys recommend for someone without a portfolio and without friends willing to pose ? ;)

In all seriousness, the best way is to just hire a real model for a few hours. Do that a couple of times, and if you are even halfway decent you should have work to show to get a few TFP-type shoots with someone decent. Be sure to tell the paid model you are new, and you'd like direction FROM HER about how to work with her. That will go a long, long, (long) way to help the first shoot go really well. Be sure you have another female there at the shoot, and tell the model that ahead of time. Be totally honest with your skillset, and be sure she knows why she is there.

Make sure you have technical **** out of the way by practicing on yourself.

[Davidoff]

I'd probably get someone for normal shots, but I think that if I somehow suggested the "glamour theme", I'd get the " you're insane " look. How do you maneuver that into the invite ? How do you go from " I'd like to take some pictures of you " to " I'd like to take some provocative, sexy, hot pictures of you " ?

edit: Jason, I think I'm pretty comfortable with the technical ****, what I'm not too sure of is whether I can get good at the other, more important stuff, like poses, backgrounds, looks, relating to the models and so on.

[JasonSTL739]

I'd probably get someone for normal shots, but I think that if I somehow suggested the "glamour theme", I'd get the " you're insane " look. How do you maneuver that into the invite ? How do you go from " I'd like to take some pictures of you " to " I'd like to take some provocative, sexy, hot pictures of you " ?

edit: Jason, I think I'm pretty comfortable with the technical ****, what I'm not too sure of is whether I can get good at the other, more important stuff, like poses, backgrounds, looks, relating to the models and so on.

That's exactly why you need a pro for the first couple of shoot. The posing and looks she'll take care of entirely. Same deal with relating to the models. She'll know you are new, and if she's even halfway decent she'll know how to lead you through the shoot.

Many of the better models I've worked with will even put in their two cents about the shoot itself if it is just for fun and not for a purpose. You might find one that gives you a mini model training, and you'll be light years ahead of just about anyone else trying to shoot the genre.

Once you have a few shots, all you need to do is print out huge high-quality versions of them and insert into a portfolio. Have that with you when you ask her. Show her you are good. Guarantee she'll bite if you are creepy and show quality work. Also, offer references from previous clients, even if they aren't glamour shoots. Just say "I have many clients I have shot in the past - here is my current work - and I'm happy to provide you with several references..."

[Davidoff]

What do you call mini model training ?

By the way, I've had your website favourited for months now, absolutely brilliant, I just noticed you're here on POTN.

[JasonSTL739]

What do you call mini model training ?

By the way, I've had your website favourited for months now, absolutely brilliant, I just noticed you're here on POTN.

Not kidding - think of it as paying for your own little mini model training. Call up an agency, tell them you are a photographer that has been shooting in other genres and would like to get into portfolio work. Tell them you have references. Tell them you'd like to pay a professional so you can not have to deal with some chick that is clueless. Seriously, tell them you'd like someone nice that will understand you're basically paying her to teach you how to work with models. Really, say exactly that. The money you spend here is worth WAY more than any camera equipment or accessories if you really want to shoot the girls.

Site: Thank much! I need to update that thing - need more recent work on there.

[Davidoff]

What about paying for a glamour workshop instead of just for a model ? Or do you think I won't learn anything with 14 other guys shooting the same 1 or 2 girls ?

[JasonSTL739]

What about paying for a glamour workshop instead of just for a model ? Or do you think I won't learn anything with 14 other guys shooting the same 1 or 2 girls ?

Can't speak to that - I haven't been to a glamour workshop before. I've thought about it since I haven't been shooting very long (a bit over a year or so). Maybe the best bet would be doing that once, and using a pro a time or two; and then you'd have enough work to show and tell to get someone "off the street"

The key is to make them comfortable, just like at the shoot, the same applies when asking someone you'd like to shoot them. References = comfort. Images of other girls that are good = comfort. Having another woman with you = comfort. Comfort = free modeling. :D

FYI - your entire mission in life during a glamour shoot is to make her feel comfortable, confident, and attractive. If you can do those things, she won't even care how ****ty the images are if she knows you are learning. Do these things, she'll probably even shoot with you again if she is just an amatur and wants to get better herself as well.

[BBoi]

See this is great advice, but what I lack is confidence with people. I guess it's something i have to build up somehow. I've been shooting various subject matter for a couple of years with a small P&S and had some reasonable results, but when I saw your site it just blew me away, and I wondered if I am just chasing pipe dreams here. I wanted to get comfortable before investing in some proper equipment, but in all seriousness, I don't think I could ever match that quality - you have the eye, and the art shows through, makes my stuff look bland by comparison.

I'd like to believe it's about the photographer, not the equipment, but if that's true - im screwed !

[JasonSTL739]

See this is great advice, but what I lack is confidence with people. I guess it's something i have to build up somehow. I've been shooting various subject matter for a couple of years with a small P&S and had some reasonable results, but when I saw your site it just blew me away, and I wondered if I am just chasing pipe dreams here. I wanted to get comfortable before investing in some proper equipment, but in all seriousness, I don't think I could ever match that quality - you have the eye, and the art shows through, makes my stuff look bland by comparison.

I'd like to believe it's about the photographer, not the equipment, but if that's true - im screwed !

Thanks much for the compliments. For what it is worth, I don't think the learning process ever stops. I still feel amaturish, always learning something, and still get nervous I didn't get the shot; even though it always seems to work out.

Just have to start somewhere! That's one of the reasons I like to suggest just getting a pro model. I'd at least have a DSLR to start though.

[BBoi]

Mmm well i've been using the 640 and done 2 model shoots so far, quite nice results for a home studio, but nothing like the shots you're getting. I guess it's as much the location and lighting as it is the model and equipment. Having ladies post in afront a black or blue curtain very quickly becomes incredibly limiting. But if you go outdoors, you suddenly need reflectors, generators, good throw flashes and the like. It's a start I guess. One day i'll win the lottery and buy a proper studio or something. Hehehe

[JasonSTL739]

Mmm well i've been using the 640 and done 2 model shoots so far, quite nice results for a home studio, but nothing like the shots you're getting. I guess it's as much the location and lighting as it is the model and equipment. Having ladies post in afront a black or blue curtain very quickly becomes incredibly limiting. But if you go outdoors, you suddenly need reflectors, generators, good throw flashes and the like. It's a start I guess. One day i'll win the lottery and buy a proper studio or something. Hehehe

I hear ya. But... Exterior shots can be very simple. Start there, not in the studio.

90% of my outside shots are with Camera and lens, and two hot shoe flashes. While I do have good gear, I could get the same results with two $75/each used manual flashes, a set of remote triggers, and a camera with a good lens on it. I work nearlyo all manual for the actual camera, and either manual or wireless ETTL with the hotshoe flashes. Often one of the hotshoe flashes has a little softbox that was like $75 on it, the other for edge light or on-camera fill.

The other 10% are usually with just ambient lighting, or ambient plus a Sunbounce. Sunbounce could easily be an 8X4 sheet of white board from the hardware store for $20. Would be a real pain to move around though. The $$$ usually just gives you portability.

How about some examples?

Take this shot:
http://sedura.smugmug.com/photos/371232857_4Re2C-M.jpg

Hotshoe flash on the model left, hotshoe flash on the model right with a 24" softbox. Play with the power settings, voila. In this case we did this image in the dark because it was so late. The "water" is actually a fountain in a park...

Same model, hotshoe flash on camera and one in my left hand as far out to the left as I could hold it. Both bare.
http://sedura.smugmug.com/photos/371232826_TaK8J-M.jpg

Single off-camera hotshoe flash, bare. In the dark mainly, perhaps a little streetlight in there.
http://sedura.smugmug.com/photos/364625260_LUU9B-M.jpg

Same model, single hotshoe flash slightly left of camera with hotshoe flash, and single hotshoeflash on camera. Some ambient in this one.
http://sedura.smugmug.com/photos/364625002_nsiek-M.jpg

[BBoi]

GREAT bokeh in the back of that last one on the waterfall.

These are pretty much the best i've managed so far, though in fairness there is some PP gone into these in terms of skin smoothing, white balance, selective sharpening etc.. Not a patch on yours mind, although, I am using a 500w tungsten camping lamp and the cameras own flash rather than an off-camera triggered flash. No fancy umbrellas, soft boxes or reflectors.

http://pichost.homestead.com/snap1240.jpg
http://pichost.homestead.com/snap1239.jpg
http://pichost.homestead.com/snap1237.jpg

[fadetoblack22]

Jason, what advantage would you say having a hotshoe flash slightly left of camera with hotshoe flash and single hotshoeflash on camera are?

BBoi, I can't comment on your first photo because it is too blurry for me, but the 2nd and 3rd I can see the on camera flash is directed straight at the subject and has cause a few hotspots.

Look at Jason's shots and see what the shadows from the off-camera flash add to the image :)

[cdifoto]

Many times, a business card with a link to an online portfolio will increase your ability to ask folks to pose for you by allowing them to approach you after seeing some of your work. If you're not to that point yet, consider it something to work toward.
Catch-22 when you're starting out.

[JasonSTL739]

Catch-22 when you're starting out.

See my prior posts. Primary reason to just go an hire a pro if you are serious about this type of work.

Jason, what advantage would you say having a hotshoe flash slightly left of camera with hotshoe flash and single hotshoeflash on camera are?

BBoi, I can't comment on your first photo because it is too blurry for me, but the 2nd and 3rd I can see the on camera flash is directed straight at the subject and has cause a few hotspots.

Look at Jason's shots and see what the shadows from the off-camera flash add to the image :)

For me, the one on camera fires the other one, or adds a tiny bit of fill. Often I'll have one on camera, and two off; the one on-camera not firing at all. It just fires the other ones with wireless ETTL. I've also had one on camera for focus assist and pocketwizards firing the two off camera... I need to get some radiopopper thingies.

[Visible Metaphor]

I participated in a Glamour Workshop this past weekend and it was a bit eye opening. The instructor was very good, but there were over 25 people participating and it was nearly impossible to get a good shot.

The instructor would pose the model, suggest settings, and then have a huge gaggle stand behind a line and then successive waves of shooters would take 3 or 4 photographs and then be nudged, pushed, shoved, or positioned out of the way by the others struggling to get their shot.

The assistants routinely edged themselves into the shot and there was very little individual assistance. By the time I figured out how to take the best shot, it was always my turn to move on.

Also, I felt only 20% of the students truly was there to learn about glamour photography. Most seemed to be creepy older guys who just wanted to "shoot some hot chicks in bikini's".

Nevertheless, I found it to be a good experience and really helped me to think about glamour photography in a different way.

I have my first real glamour shoot next weekend and I can't wait!

[JasonSTL739]

I participated in a Glamour Workshop this past weekend and it was a bit eye opening. The instructor was very good, but there were over 25 people participating and it was nearly impossible to get a good shot.

The instructor would pose the model, suggest settings, and then have a huge gaggle stand behind a line and then successive waves of shooters would take 3 or 4 photographs and then be nudged, pushed, shoved, or positioned out of the way by the others struggling to get their shot.

The assistants routinely edged themselves into the shot and there was very little individual assistance. By the time I figured out how to take the best shot, it was always my turn to move on.

Also, I felt only 20% of the students truly was there to learn about glamour photography. Most seemed to be creepy older guys who just wanted to "shoot some hot chicks in bikini's".

Nevertheless, I found it to be a good experience and really helped me to think about glamour photography in a different way.

I have my first real glamour shoot next weekend and I can't wait!

I'm curious - how much were they charging for something like that?

How much would a 1 on 1 version of that be worth?

[DerekW]

Just saw this. I just did a 2 day workshop this weekend with Don from lighting-essentials.com
It was one of the best learning experiences I have had. I am new to this type of thing, and it was great to have laid-back models that were willing to work wih a bunch of amateurs, one of them actually blew of her regular day job for sunday to come back out with us. She had as much fun as we did.
I think if the opportunity arose, you should try to jump into a workshop. Money well-spent. HOWEVER, I've heard of bad experiences with workshop.s Don even told of some problems he had with some of his, where there were guys there just to "take pictures of chicks, and try to pick up models". So YMMV.
We were lucky to have a great bunch of friendly helpful photgrapher's, where everyone worked together.

[zcp m3]

bookmarked to read later.

[Visible Metaphor]

I'm curious - how much were they charging for something like that?

How much would a 1 on 1 version of that be worth?

The event cost $100, so I more than got my money's worth. It was sponsored by Canon who took care of the costs.

Are you asking how much a 1-on-1 would be worth to me or in general?

[JasonSTL739]

The event cost $100, so I more than got my money's worth. It was sponsored by Canon who took care of the costs.

Are you asking how much a 1-on-1 would be worth to me or in general?

1-on-1, or perhaps a very small group (like 3 photographer and eight models, for example)

I've been thinking about assembling something like the above.

[Visible Metaphor]

1-on-1, or perhaps a very small group (like 3 photographer and eight models, for example)

I've been thinking about assembling something like the above.

I would find more value in one-on-one, but I would gladly pay for a workshop like that. Before I can tell you how much, what would you provide?

[JasonSTL739]

I would find more value in one-on-one, but I would gladly pay for a workshop like that. Before I can tell you how much, what would you provide?

My wife thinks we should - it is totally just an idea. I have no idea what we'd charge. We have a very unusual levels of rapport with a huge slew of models. Probably would be something along the lines of a full-on fashion/commericial test shoot, not just glamour/beauty, but with time in it to really work with the person(s) that are there to learn. Hair, Makeup, Wardrobe, Model(s), idea, all provided. The option would be there for the attentee(s) to select what the shoot genre would be for even, at least in our ideas around this. Hell could even pick out the models from our list (about 150 or so to choose from)

Dunno. Anybody doing this out there? I know there are some workshops out there that are a couple models, a photographer teaching/hosting, and ten or so photographers. Doesn't seem very "real" to me.

Seriously - what do you think it would be worth on the open market for "training"? I really don't have any idea. I know the cost of assembling a shoot like that. Haha.

[Visible Metaphor]

My wife thinks we should - it is totally just an idea. I have no idea what we'd charge. We have a very unusual levels of rapport with a huge slew of models. Probably would be something along the lines of a full-on fashion/commericial test shoot, not just glamour/beauty, but with time in it to really work with the person(s) that are there to learn. Hair, Makeup, Wardrobe, Model(s), idea, all provided. The option would be there to select what the shoot would be even, at least in our head.

Dunno. Anybody doing this out there? I know there are some that are a couple models, a photographer that is supposed to be awesome, and ten or so photographers. Doesn't seem very "real" to me.

Seriously - what do you think it would be worth on the open market for "training"? I really don't have any idea. I know the cost of assembling a shoot like that. Haha.

I would pay $1500 if I had individual attention.

[JasonSTL739]

I would pay $1500 if I had individual attention.

How long of a shoot? We were thinking 4 hours of actual shoot time. Probably 6-8 hours+ total, by the time makeup, hair, messing around, and learning happens. LOL. Frankly, I seriously doubt we would have any time restrictions. I would bet it would end up being all day morning to late evening.

Could be interesting. Not sure honestly - this is totally just in the idea phase.

How much are the "glamour workshops" I always hear about? Like in the Virgin islands and so forth.

Does it need to be at some fabulous location, or would some type of cityscape style stuff be a play? Basically, if it was in St. Louis, I have a ton of resources at all types of venues, locations, and our loft/studio is in the heart of the city.

[JasonSTL739]

bookmarked to read later.

Hey man, whats going on. You don't need to bookmark it, you just need to come down the street here and have a beverage. LOL.

[Visible Metaphor]

How long of a shoot? We were thinking 4 hours of actual shoot time. Probably 6-8 hours+ total, by the time makeup, hair, messing around, and learning happens. LOL. Frankly, I seriously doubt we would have any time restrictions. I would bet it would end up being all day morning to late evening.

Could be interesting. Not sure honestly - this is totally just in the idea phase.

How much are the "glamour workshops" I always hear about? Like in the Virgin islands and so forth.

Does it need to be at some fabulous location, or would some type of cityscape style stuff be a play? Basically, if it was in St. Louis, I have a ton of resources at all types of venues, locations, and our loft/studio is in the heart of the city.


Your competition charges approximately $3500 for exotic locales. I am strongly considering signing up for the Rolando Gomez workshop in Texas.

I would have no problem coming to St. Louis if the workshop met my needs.

[JasonSTL739]

Your competition charges approximately $3500 for exotic locales. I am strongly considering signing up for the Rolando Gomez workshop in Texas.

I would have no problem coming to St. Louis if the workshop met my needs.

We're definitely headed to something in these lines. I would aim it at the commercial space and fashion a bit more I think, verus swimsuits and glamour/implied nudity. Let me see what I can assemble and perhaps we might have something to offer in the near future. I'd want it polished a bit with an agenda so value/learning are accomplished fully. We could do it more informally, but I think the value would go up with some structure.

BTW: you just made my night, as one of the first books I picked up was Garage Glamour when I started learning. Always learning!

[Visible Metaphor]

We're definitely headed to something in these lines. I would aim it at the commercial space and fashion a bit more I think, verus swimsuits and glamour/implied nudity. Let me see what I can assemble and perhaps we might have something to offer in the near future. I'd want it polished a bit with an agenda so things are accomlished. We could do it on the play, but I think the value would go up with some structure.

BTW: you just made my night, as one of the first books I picked up was Garage Glamour when I started learning. Always learning!


Wonderful! Please keep me in mind.

[charlesu]

Workshops and group shoots rock. Maybe I will do another one soon!

They are a pain in the rear to put together though!

[chris78cpr]

Hey all,

I've just started getting into model photography and as such I'm still a relevant new person in this discipline. Just had a quick browse through the forums and this thread is a fantastic wealth of information.

Jason, looking at your photos i would also agree that i would be interested in a photo workshop if you decide to offer one. Your photos are fantastic! Please add me to the list of interested participants!

Once i get round to shooting some more stuff i'll post it on here to get some C&C!

On a separate note, can anyone recommend a good and well priced web designer? I figure there is no use putting a website on my biz card if there is nothing there! lol

Cheers,

Chris

[JasonSTL739]

Thank you all for the compliments, and for the emails about this. I didn't expect such a response about it!

Questions:
-How important is learning post? We think that the overall workflow and post-processing is just as important as the shoot itself for the "overall" learning process.

-Model work. Would it be valuable to have a model(s) actually teach a photographer how to interact with other models? Or a group of models teach the teachers? That is of course *in addition to* discussion around how we work with a model from initial contact to delivery of images.

-On-location flexibility or studio work more important?

[chris78cpr]

Thank you all for the compliments, and for the emails about this. I didn't expect such a response about it!

Questions:
-How important is learning post? We think that the overall workflow and post-processing is just as important as the shoot itself for the "overall" learning process.

-Model work. Would it be valuable to have a models actually teach the photographer how to interact with other models? Or a group of models teach the teachers? That is of course *in addition to* discussion around how we work with a client.

-On-location flexibility or studio work more important?

Jason,

For me Post work would be a valuable thing to learn about, my clients for my current work are newspapers so news/docu photos don't really require much work to make them look better.

I think learning form the model about how to interact with them is important, more so for me is how to pose them and how to quickly adapt to a situation that will still accentuate their good features, etc.

I think studio and location work are equally as important.

If you decide on dates for the shoots/meets then please post as early as possible as i have to find a way to get to STL from London! lol

Chris

[M_ark]

Subscribed - i might be living in australia but i'm going to follow this thread with great interest!

[dragulaz]

I have been doing some research on workshops as well, and am considering attending one in the next 6-12 months. So far my top choices are Rolando Gomez and Supershoots.

http://rolandogomez.net/2008/09/atlanta-mansion-feb09/
http://www.supershoots.com/peoria/

I really like the sound of supershoots, as they emphasize that you will get one on one shooting time. I think a very important feature of a good workshop would be a good photographer to model ratio, and hands on time.

Although a little more expensive, here is another workshop that I think would be awesome, done by one of the masters of fashion photography, Claudio Basso.

http://www.renovance.tv/products/power_of_light/register.htm