Model shoots and copyright

[Yella Fella]

alright guys,

Anyone shoot fashion portraits thats going to be potentially sold by a 3rd party client etc e.g. magazine. To a point where they get models/togs to sign a release where models will be informed that their pics will be sold at one point and togs will lose all rights to the images, that correctly done? Meaning you as tog won't get to use images much other than for your own portfolio?

the magazine is currently in a working concept, but the editor has stated it will be used primarily in the magazine but in future it will be possibly sold to other mediums.

not sure if this is the usual practice that goes on when a tog gets hired to shoot? should i be bothered about losing my copyright to my images in this sense?

help and advise thanks

[Dennis_Hammer]

I hope they are paying you well enough to make it worth it. Selling rights outright is usually expensive. If thats your deal with them, then they own the photos and you never really had the rights so you lose nothing.

[Tommy]

I won't shoot for someone requiring me to give up my copyright unless they're seriously compensating me...

I can't really comment though on if it's usual or not for a magazine to tell you that they want full copyright... if you're shooting for a studio, or as a hired hand for another photographer though, then I think it's a fairly common thing...

[Yella Fella]

with this case, the client will be paying models for their time, and im currently doing it as a favour to take the pics...

just seeing how that works with regards to who should own copyright to pics, as the client is paying the models, do i get to use the pics myself etc. What are my rights?

i suggested giving him a licence to use the images to whatever he wants, as im not interested in the selling pics side. But as he's paying the models, what rights would i have in that sense?

[sspellman]

Ed-

Established photgraphers rarely work in situations where they give up all rights. The future value of a picture can be significant. It is unusual to me to see a situation where the models are of high enough quality to pay, the client has the goal of reselling the pictures, but yet the photographer is not worth paying or sharing revenue. Im not sure why you dont think your service is worth anything.

You should really re-evaluate doing these pictures without compensation. The fact of business if that you get what you negociate. Your goal should be to exchange your valuable services for compensation-either $$$ or rights to the pictures and a % of the future sales. It would be far better for you to pay 50% of the model costs and get 50% of the revenue of the pictures-right? Or get your own models, build your port, and split revenue with them.

One thing you will quickly learn is that you will rarely change your compensation with a client. You will not be successful in first shooting for free and then getting $$$. We all need to work on building your portfolio, but shooting repeatedly with out compensation just proves to your client that your service is worth $0.

-Scott

[amfoto1]

Hi,

It's entirely appropriate that the client should pay for the expenses of a shoot, including the model fees. That's no justification for giving up your copyright.

They should pay you a shooting fee.... that will vary but would commonly be a day rate, say $1500 to $2500 a day.

Then they should license usage of the images from you. That would vary depending upon exact usage, exclusivity, any additional usages or future rights they might want to reserve, circulation, etc. It might be several thousand for a cover shot in a moderate circulation mag. Inside usage may be a few hundred dollars per image.

They would not acquire the copyright and would be prohibited from reselling the images in any way. The copyright should remain yours.

If they want to buy out all rights, well that's possible too. Take your rates per image and multiply it times 100X and quote them that. No kidding.

Overall, the situation you describe is one I'd walk away from very quickly. They are hoping to score big off an inexperienced photographer. If they are at all savvy about the magazine business, publishing, photography and copyrights, they are must not be a very honest and trustworthy organization to work with.

[Yella Fella]

thanks the for the advice guys... only reason why i suggested shooting for him was as a favour as it gets me exposed as someone who is "shooting" for the up and coming magazine concept, and in return to be used as a main tog so to speak.

the models are getting paid roughly around £100 based in the UK, this includes hair and MUA's thrown in too. He was talking about getting releases signed from everyone to state the usage. I have politely emailed back to state that i wont be signing up and giving up my copyright, but more of giving him a licence to use my images instead.

ok, if we look at it this way, if he's paying the models already for a shoot, would both me and him need a model release or just himself? Or is it best for them to sign one for me as well with regards to this? Not sure how to put it as its not exactly TFCD as they are getting paid for it.

[sando]

2 model releases and/or contracts means that you both then have 'rights' to the image of the model. That needs to be clarified as to who is signing what and who for... are the models signing for their image to used by the magazine - therefore, is the magazine owner getting them to sign in a belief that he then owns the images?

I would tell the owner that you're willing to do the shoot for free, on the basis that if he wants to use the images then you're compensated for their use in the magazine. Don't give up the copyright on the images, but get a limited use agreement. You will then still own the images, and therefore need to get the models to sign your agreement, not the magazines.

It's fair that the models and studio gets paid for their work... so why not you? Sounds like he's paying everyone except you.

[Ledrak]

with this case, the client will be paying models for their time, and im currently doing it as a favour to take the pics...

just seeing how that works with regards to who should own copyright to pics, as the client is paying the models, do i get to use the pics myself etc. What are my rights?

i suggested giving him a licence to use the images to whatever he wants, as im not interested in the selling pics side. But as he's paying the models, what rights would i have in that sense?
It all depends on the agreement you have with the person/company hiring you. When I hire a photographer to shoot models for my company, they are basically working as "work for hire" and they own no rights to anything. Thus they would need our permission to do anything with those photos. But of course, you could set it up where you retain the rights to everything you shoot. It all depends on the deciding parties.