"You've got a job and it's all YOUR FAULT!"

[BillsBayou]

Two years ago, Number-One-Daughter graduates from the seventh grade. Given the time it takes to go through Early Child, Pre-K, Kindergarten, and First thru Seventh Grades, they tend to make a big deal of it. So I brought my big camera. I also brought a stack of pre-printed business cards with the address and password of the destination SmugMug gallery.

Last night, the planning meeting for Number-Two-Daughter's class party was held in my absence. One-And-Only-Wife returned from the meeting with the message "You've got a job and it's all YOUR FAULT. So don't blame ME."

At one point in the meeting the discussion of photography came up and one of the mother's stood up and with finger pointed said "HER husband did a fantastic job. He can do it." All eyes turned to my wife and I imagine she just shrugged and said "I'll let him know the Good News."

In the past, I've set up SmugMug galleries for friends and family who could download the Original size for free or print through SmugMug at zero profit to me. As I've always just been beebopping, I thought it would be nice to do it like this.

Now I have a job. I have this fear that as the "official photographer" I'm going to be getting suggestions (read: directions) from parents who feel I havn't captured enough shots of their particular darlings and their groups of friends. Expecting this, I'm thinking I should be compensated by earning a profit on the shots and putting watermarks on the gallery photos to prevent downloads. ("Oh. The watermarks. Yes. I didn't want just anyone downloading the photos of each others children. So I put the watermarks on the shots so the only way you could get the shots was in hard copy. Don't want anyone passing around digital copies, now do we?")

I'm not looking to actually make beer money on this, but I wanted to be there at the party capturing my daughter's party with my daughter's friends. Now that I'm shooting EVERYONE'S kids, it's work. I get paid for work. 50-cents on 4x6, 75-cents on 5x7, 2-bucks on 8x10. That's the friendly rate. Now, how am I going to break it to them? Seeing as there is no contract, I'm only violating their belief that if I did it for free before (when it was beebopping), that I'll do it for free (when they've actually given me a job to do).

Mitigating Factors:
One: I'm not eating anyone's lunch. This is not a crowd who would have hired anyone to do this job. The only other option on the table was to have a single web site where everyone could upload their shots. This was the original intention of the last party when Mr. SmugMug showed up with pre-printed cards.
Two: I'm not a professional, I'm a father with the biggest camera at every event.

[20droger]

So how many daughters do you have?

You know you were going to do it anyway, so do it and do it the way you would have, for your enjoyment of your daughter's milestone.

When someone complains (and someone will) politely but firmly point out that you were doing it for your pleasure, not theirs. Exactly what they were paying you? Zip! Anything they get is worth more than that.

You can always offer to take additional pix of the child(ren) of any griper(s), but only at full commercial rates, naturally.

You're probably a nicer, friendlier person than I am, but I'd pull the pix of any kid whose parents got in my face. It's not your job to satisfy their egos.

[BillsBayou]

So how many daughters do you have?

You know you were going to do it anyway, so do it and do it the way you would have, for your enjoyment of your daughter's milestone.

When someone complains (and someone will) politely but firmly point out that you were doing it for your pleasure, not theirs. Exactly what they were paying you? Zip! Anything they get is worth more than that.

You can always offer to take additional pix of the child(ren) of any griper(s), but only at full commercial rates, naturally.

You're probably a nicer, friendlier person than I am, but I'd pull the pix of any kid whose parents got in my face. It's not your job to satisfy their egos.


Thank you. I guess I'm looking for the best way to handle this. Your ideas are very good.

Maybe I need a toadie. When I give them the sign, they come in and do "bunny ears" over the child of the offending parent. "That rotten kid did that to my darling in EVERY SINGLE PHOTO!"

[qtfsniper]

"You've got a job and it's all YOUR FAULT. So don't blame ME." ?!
Wow. I would have been FUMING. To be honest, you guys sound like pushovers. I'm not saying you are but that is what it sounds like so far. It shouldn't be a vote on who has to take pictures for the event. Just don't do anything you don't want to do. When money becomes involved, so do their expectations.

[BillsBayou]

"You've got a job and it's all YOUR FAULT. So don't blame ME." ?!
Wow. I would have been FUMING. To be honest, you guys sound like pushovers. I'm not saying you are but that is what it sounds like so far. It shouldn't be a vote on who has to take pictures for the event. Just don't do anything you don't want to do. When money becomes involved, so do their expectations.

I agree that when you're suddenly asked to pay for a service, that you are granted the right to complain when things don't work out right. The inverse is also true. When complaints come, you should be getting paid.

The expectations are that I will be the Official Photographer for the event. Any event that involves an Official Anything and parents will result in complaints.

Maybe I need an Official Comeback Line. "Hey, Lady. I was drafted into this gig. When I get paid, you get to complain."

[cdifoto]

I wouldn't even to it to be honest. I'd shoot my own kid(s) and be done. Sometimes, you just have to let people be mad. They'll get over it...if they don't, it's them being childish, not you.

[Cristnotchrist]

2 dollar 8x10s?
christ man, I pay more for my 8x10s than that.

Parents are used to paying for photos of their kids, especially at official events. 1 single terribly posed picture of their kid at senior graduation is like 35 dollars.
Charge enough to actually make a profit and make yourself happy or scrap the idea of charging because 2 dollar 8x10s is going to be more hassle than its even worth.

[BillsBayou]

2 dollar 8x10s?
christ man, I pay more for my 8x10s than that.

Parents are used to paying for photos of their kids, especially at official events. 1 single terribly posed picture of their kid at senior graduation is like 35 dollars.
Charge enough to actually make a profit and make yourself happy or scrap the idea of charging because 2 dollar 8x10s is going to be more hassle than its even worth.


Yes. I see your point. It flows from the Pay = Right-to-complain. As long as they get the right to complain, I should be getting seriously paid for it. Hmmmm...

Well, these are party shots, after all. The only posing that will take place will be at the very end when I get a shot of all of the kids together. I'm not doing the two-strobes-and-a-backdrop thing off on the side.

[cdifoto]

My 8x10s are $30 regardless of the subject or conditions...and that's cheap compared to some. I charge $10 for a 4x6. Not once has anyone complained that it's too high....I've gotten as much as $20 for 4x6s of non-commissioned events.

You have to make it worth your while. If you're doing such a good job that they want you to do it, then you can do it on your own terms. Consider this: what do you stand to lose by NOT doing it?

[mbellot]

You know you were going to do it anyway, so do it and do it the way you would have, for your enjoyment of your daughter's milestone.

Thats what I would do (and have in similar circumstances).

If you really want to take it on as a "job" (which I have also done) then you need to go to the next meeting and work out something better than your current "slave photographer" situation.

[20droger]

I agree that when you're suddenly asked to pay for a service, that you are granted the right to complain when things don't work out right. The inverse is also true. When complaints come, you should be getting paid.

The expectations are that I will be the Official Photographer for the event. Any event that involves an Official Anything and parents will result in complaints.

Maybe I need an Official Comeback Line. "Hey, Lady. I was drafted into this gig. When I get paid, you get to complain."
Memorize that line. It's perfect.

[DigitalSpecialist]

Bill, you might need to wear a shirt with that saying on it. And make sure that your shirt has the writing in NEON letters. Like many others, I would be making something on this, even if it just covers prints!

[fxk]

So how many daughters do you have?

You know you were going to do it anyway, so do it and do it the way you would have, for your enjoyment of your daughter's milestone.

When someone complains (and someone will) politely but firmly point out that you were doing it for your pleasure, not theirs. Exactly what they were paying you? Zip! Anything they get is worth more than that.

You can always offer to take additional pix of the child(ren) of any griper(s), but only at full commercial rates, naturally.

You're probably a nicer, friendlier person than I am, but I'd pull the pix of any kid whose parents got in my face. It's not your job to satisfy their egos.

I think 20droger almost has it perfect - I would not offer to take additional pix of their kids, though. You already have a "job"...

Do what you normally do. Post what you normally post. Tell them you'll refund double their money if they don't like what you have done.

I think the best "answer" I've ever seen, was when I was a kid, and the garbage truck went by. The sign said "Satisfaction guaranteed, or double your trash back!".

[ngray77]

maybe it's my background in IT projects, but my first concern for you is that you are already out of control of the expectations, and you haven't even met the client!

I would decide now: take money and meet a level of expectation, or do this pro-bono and do it how you like.

If you are conflicted about asking for money at this point, but want to define the work ad being valuable, why not set a 5-20 dollar per photo donation to the school?

[BillsBayou]

maybe it's my background in IT projects, but my first concern for you is that you are already out of control of the expectations, and you haven't even met the client!

I would decide now: take money and meet a level of expectation, or do this pro-bono and do it how you like.

If you are conflicted about asking for money at this point, but want to define the work ad being valuable, why not set a 5-20 dollar per photo donation to the school?

All profits go to the school. Oh, that's a good one. Given that they are graduating, it would be a graduation gift from the graduating class.

As for the IT background, same here.

"Bill, we need you to do the same project you did for Mike that you did for Jan. It's exactly the same thing, so I told them you should be able to do it by the end of the week." (all new tables, all new web pages, all new relationships between the values, initial project was hard-coded to the client, new client wants it in a different color scheme, oh, and let's get it to print to web-enabled PDF files, too...)

Yeah, I'm a victim of my own success, sometimes.

[20droger]

Sounds like you need an all new job.

Perhaps one photographing graduation parties, though I understand the pay's not too good.

[ngray77]

All profits go to the school. Oh, that's a good one. Given that they are graduating, it would be a graduation gift from the graduating class.

As for the IT background, same here.

"Bill, we need you to do the same project you did for Mike that you did for Jan. It's exactly the same thing, so I told them you should be able to do it by the end of the week." (all new tables, all new web pages, all new relationships between the values, initial project was hard-coded to the client, new client wants it in a different color scheme, oh, and let's get it to print to web-enabled PDF files, too...)

Yeah, I'm a victim of my own success, sometimes.

Wow, so glad I'm not a slave to moron sales teams anymore. Consulting has been fantastic for me.... but I do miss the 'excitement'! :rolleyes:

[PhotosGuy]

50-cents on 4x6, 75-cents on 5x7, 2-bucks on 8x10.
&
Charge enough to actually make a profit and make yourself happy or scrap the idea of charging because 2 dollar 8x10s is going to be more hassle than its even worth. I agree. Either do it as a "labor of love" & don't complain, or charge enough to get some respect from the parents & be happy that you aren't getting less per hour than the guy who asks, "Do you want fries with that?" ;)

[breal101]

You could use your avatar in the watermark somehow, that could cut down on the complaints. :lol: But in reality, making some beer money is not a bad idea, you'll probably need a few before all is said and done.

[BillsBayou]

I'M GETTING PAID FOR THE GIG!!!!

HOLY COW!!!

Last night, at the annual school fair, I ran into the woman who pointed the finger at my wife and suggested me for the job. After discussing the particulars of the job, I turned to my wife and said "I'm going to need those radio triggers to do this right," and she agreed.

Well, okay, so I'm not adding money to the household budget. I'm only prying permission from my wife for three Pocket Wizard Plus II's. But to me, it's the same thing as getting paid. ;)

[LW Dail]

Dang, the pocket wizards diluted some of my pithy combacks, but i'll throw them out there anyway....

"Lady, you couldn't pay me enough to risk my lens shooting your ugly child!"

"Post processing is extra, and your kid will need a LOT of pp!"

"Oh, is that your daughter coming? You know, I've never seen her sober!" (...upright, ...without the foot ball team, ...without the chem teacher."

Bill, you sound like a hoot - so I'm sure you'll just take the pics, enjoy watching the kids enjoying their party, and enjoy your new toys.

Have a good time and remember, you could have gotten signed up for hanging crepe paper duty! At least you're doing something you love!

[20droger]

I have a suspicion that if they tried to force Bill into the hanging crepe paper gig they'd wind up with crepe paper in very strange places.

[BillsBayou]

I have a suspicion that if they tried to force Bill into the hanging crepe paper gig they'd wind up with crepe paper in very strange places.

And in very strange shapes.

[20droger]

Ah! You're into origami?

[LW Dail]

For some reason I'm envisioning a low budget Prince concert!:lol:

[_aravena]

I agree that when you're suddenly asked to pay for a service, that you are granted the right to complain when things don't work out right. The inverse is also true. When complaints come, you should be getting paid.

The expectations are that I will be the Official Photographer for the event. Any event that involves an Official Anything and parents will result in complaints.

Maybe I need an Official Comeback Line. "Hey, Lady. I was drafted into this gig. When I get paid, you get to complain."

Agreed. I was "voted" as my wife's school official photographer of Kindergarten although they decided not to officially pay me as I'm not an official business. So I perform as such while providing a wide range of photographs of kids plus did class photos.

I put them up on my site and set up prices for for parents to buy and for me to get profit since the school refused to pay me. Never had complaints and most of the parents I knew so they never had a problem with it. While I may have just not heard of complaints of there not being enough of one kid, oh well. It's done fine and I'm doing it again this year. I just show up for events, shoot, weed out what's good and bad, post, and let them at it. I don't make a major profit bu enough as I have to drive out there are random times and it's not convenient since I always do it on my days off when I normally spend all day doing school work (online classes)

It's fun though so you have to find the balance. I think that it's not official allows for the loose rules an what you can get away with. Just have fun with it. Seems like you have the right idea, just make sure you get a few of everyone. So what if you get your girl's friends more.

[ngray77]

Agreed. I was "voted" as my wife's school official photographer of Kindergarten although they decided not to officially pay me as I'm not an official business. So I perform as such while providing a wide range of photographs of kids plus did class photos.

I put them up on my site and set up prices for for parents to buy and for me to get profit since the school refused to pay me. Never had complaints and most of the parents I knew so they never had a problem with it. While I may have just not heard of complaints of there not being enough of one kid, oh well. It's done fine and I'm doing it again this year. I just show up for events, shoot, weed out what's good and bad, post, and let them at it. I don't make a major profit bu enough as I have to drive out there are random times and it's not convenient since I always do it on my days off when I normally spend all day doing school work (online classes)

It's fun though so you have to find the balance. I think that it's not official allows for the loose rules an what you can get away with. Just have fun with it. Seems like you have the right idea, just make sure you get a few of everyone. So what if you get your girl's friends more.

Do you know of a place cheaper than smugmug to do at-cost or for-profit printing?

[_aravena]

Sam's Club is insanely cheap. I used them for sports photography.

[ngray77]

Sam's Club is insanely cheap. I used them for sports photography.

Yeah, I use walgreens because it's reasonable and cheap, but there's no beating sams. I was referring to online-come-to-my-site-and-buy-you-own-darn-prints kind of thing.

[somewhat awesome]

Yeah, I use walgreens because it's reasonable and cheap, but there's no beating sams. I was referring to online-come-to-my-site-and-buy-you-own-darn-prints kind of thing.

You can check out Zenfolio.com
It's cheaper than SmugSmug.

[snails]

Charge for prints, buy your daughter something nice with the money.