Camera, print lab or computer set up problem?

[Bob_A]

I just got a bunch of prints back from a photo lab and they are all very dark and have a yellow tinge. Could someone please comment on the following picture and let me know how it looks to you? On my monitor it looks much much better ... but maybe my monitor needs calibration.

Shot with a Canon 20D and 24-70 2.8L lens.

Bob

[paladin]

Doesn't appear dark or have a yellow tinge on my CRT monitor (calibrated with ColorVision's ColorPlus). Is her blouse supposed to be light purple and very light pinkish?

[paladin]

Ahhh, the light purple may be a shadow ... sorry about that ... need my eyes checked ...:o

[mbze430]

You might want to read the Walmart Processing thread....might give you some ideas.

[Bob_A]

Thanks for the feedback paladin. For this shot I believe I bounced the flash off the ceiling (90 degree). Her shirt is pink, but there was a purple shadow likely because the collar of her robe was purple along with the walls in the room.

I thought it was exposed pretty good, but what I got back was dark ... really contrasty and yellowish (yuck). I sent in 83 prints for processing and 25% of them were like that, so I thought maybe I was doing something wrong.

Bob

[Bob_A]

Thanks mbze430 ... I'll take a look at it

Bob

[Bob_A]

Looking at some of the processing threads it seems that Walmart can be hit or miss, just like some other labs. I suppose the best thing to do is send the same pictures to a number of labs and see which one does the best job.

Where I live in Canada London Drugs does a horrible job, which is why I switched to this other outfit. London Drugs would print my pictures dark ... so I'd lighten them up by over a stop, resend them and get them back even darker! After contacting a person running the lab she told me that the tech doesn't print "as-is" but adjusts the color/brightness to their liking.

Does anyone know of a good on-line store in Canada that gives consistently good results?

Bob

[mbze430]

Wow, you gonna have issues. If that monitor on that mini-lab is calibrated wrong...he will see everything too bright. Hence that is the problem. His display shows too bright...you brighten up your image, now it's EVEN brighter.

Take it to another lab, and talk to the operator. As I suggested in the Walmart Processing thread. Or go back to the same lab, and talk to that operator and tell him/her to stop messing with images, and let the machine do the automatic correction.

You might want to ask yourself this...why would the operator tweak the images....maybe the machine itself is not calibrated correctly.....ummm...makes you wonder does it?

[Bob_A]

Just sent some pics off to a different lab, so hopefully the results will be better. Also tried to upload to WinkFlash (Canada) but holy cow their server is slooooow (over 1 hour to upload 200 MB), and their web application crashed on me twice ... so I'm giving up on them for now.

I think what was going on with the London Drugs lab is that the tech felt they knew better and was trying to "fix" my prints (i.e., they must have felt they were over-exposed). So, when I saved the jpegs 1 stop brighter, they just provided even more correction to make em dark, with many being even darker than the first batch. I dropped them as a lab after getting an unsatisfactory response from the supervisor.

The next lab I tried uses Konica paper, which is poor quality compared to Fuji or even Kodak. However this lab seemed to at least get the exposure and color right "most of the time" until this last batch, which are horrible. I didn't mind using them until I got used to my 20D (fairly inexpensive), but I was looking to drop them because of the poor quality Konica paper ... the last batch just allowed me to make my mind up sooner.

I'd really like to find a high quality Canadian lab that consistently gives great results (but NOT WalMart or Costco). I'm not looking for the cheapest overall price or best quality for the price, and would even consider using a pro lab.

If anyone has some suggestions other than London Drugs, McBain Camera, WinkFlash, Costco or Walmart, I'd love to hear them.


Bob

[Dante King]

What size prints are you getting? I reciently got a Epson PictureMate Printer for my 4X6 pics. I dont have to rely on a lab and can calibrate settings to my liking. It is an awesome little printer and the cost per pic is in th emid 20 cent range. I used to send to the local lab and shutterfly and ofoto. But with shipping and the delay, it makes sense to print my own. The print quality is awesome and archival ink system. For larger 5x7 and larger prints I use an epson photo printer ( I have 3) and again on quality paper like epsons profesional grades or illford, the results are nothing short of fantastic. I have not sent off to a lab or processor for some time now and have no plans to as I save money in the long run doing it all in house.

[Bob_A]

Hi Dante,

I'm looking mostly for 4x6's, but would like a decent lab for up to 8x10.

Are any of your printers dye sub? If I were to print my own I'm leaning towards that technology. I know many feel that injets are better than dye sub, I'm just not one that agrees (yet). However, injets certainly have improved dramatically over the past few years.

Either technology would do a better job than the mini-labs that have been processing my prints though http://www.photography-on-the.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif

Bob

[Dante King]

None are dyesubs. I do find that the prints are really nice. Nice enough that I dont send them out anymore. You should go see one demoed or better yet bring a CF and see how some print out of your own work? Great professional paper makes all the differnece. My 8X10's (actually 8.5X11) look great. Nice enough to slap under glass. I really use the heck out of my 4x6 dedicated printer as I print 100 photos a week. I find I get many more prints from the ink than specified on the cartridge for the PictureMate which makes them much cheaper than sending them out. Great size for slapping in kids photo albums. Been filling up lots lately with pics of their lives and my journey with my camera. Love to load the print que up on the pc and then go work on something else. I, and I stress the "I", find it to really be as epson claims "a personal photo lab"

[mbze430]

There are several Dye-sub printers. Kodak, Olympus, Sony, Canon and Hiti. hiti seems to be the best and the cheapest.

[Bob_A]

Thanks Dante and mbzw430!


Kodak has been getting some very good reviews about their dye sub printers, and they have a new one that just came out:

http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/products/printers/1400/1400Index.jhtml?id=0.1.18.22.9.14&lc=en

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=354939&is=REG

Has anyone tried it out?


Bob

[Dante King]

WOW, with the Kodak printer, the cost per 8X11 is $1.80 way to much for how many prints I make on a weekly basis. Even in it waws cut into 2 4x6 sized that .90 a print! I guess I am a printing maniac and need to stay on the inkjet side at least for now.

[Bob_A]

Hmmm....

B&H sells the paper and ribbon (print kit) for $89.95 to make 50 8-1/2 x12's which should make 200 4x6's (shouldn't it?). This works out to $0.45 per print ... which is way cheaper than from a custom pro lab (assuming the quality would be as good).

Not sure how much cheaper the inkjet route is if you are using premium paper and lacquer the inkjet prints after printing (to protect from water and UV). I seem to recall that the lacquer adds something like $0.10 to $0.15 per 4x6 ... but this could be bad info (it's about $15 a can).

LOL ... maybe I need to use my inkject for "proofs" and buy a dye sub for "keepers"!

Bob

[Dante King]

I may be wrong, but I think you can only get 2 4x6 out of 1 8.5x11 sheet. making it .90 a print. Any way, I too would love to have a dye sub. Wife would flip though if I can home with more equipment for my camera.....AGAIN! :lol:

[mbze430]

no you can print 3 4x6 on 1 sheet of 8.5x11 paper. 2 portrait 4x6 and 1 landscape orientation.

[HKFEVER]

What size prints are you getting? I reciently got a Epson PictureMate Printer for my 4X6 pics. I dont have to rely on a lab and can calibrate settings to my liking. It is an awesome little printer and the cost per pic is in th emid 20 cent range. I used to send to the local lab and shutterfly and ofoto. But with shipping and the delay, it makes sense to print my own. The print quality is awesome and archival ink system. For larger 5x7 and larger prints I use an epson photo printer ( I have 3) and again on quality paper like epsons profesional grades or illford, the results are nothing short of fantastic. I have not sent off to a lab or processor for some time now and have no plans to as I save money in the long run doing it all in house.

Same here 6X4 with Epson PictureMate. A3 with Epson 2100. Unless need to print hundreds otherwise will print at homw instead of looking for outside lab.

[Bob_A]

Looking on the B&H photo site it says the Kodak sheet size is 8 1/2 x 12 inches, not 8 1/2 x 11 inches. The Kodak site lists that the paper can be 8 1/2 by 12 or 14 inches. To me this means 4 4x6's per sheet, not 2.

Bob

[Dante King]

DHO! Of course you are correct!

[Bob_A]

whew! Around my house that doesn't happen very often :) Thanks for making my day!

[RickHulshof]

Hi Bob - Canadian (Ontario) photolabs I have had success with are www.henrys.com and www.carmans.com - Both have been good to me but I tend to stick with Carmens as they are more local too me and they tend to take a bit more time on the images - also they will let me sit in on the developing if I prebook the time (thats only one store though - I don't know about others) Carmens has literally bent over backwards for me in the past so I will continue to get them to develop my work. I'll see what happens when the Zehr's photolab in town gets their new digital developer - I know the time will be taken there because my wife works in the lab in town (right now they farm out there digital images to another Zehr's store) so only time will tell - don't tell my wife but I will likely still use carmans ;)

[Bob_A]

Thanks Rick,

I emailed one of my pictures to a pro lab in Vancouver for their opinion ( www.thelabvancouver.com (http://www.thelabvancouver.com/) ). The reponse I got back from them was very professional, and they even printed the sample and asked for my address to send it to me ... service that I did not expect.

They are a bit pricey for "snapshots" ($0.90 Cdn or $0.73 US per 4x6 print), but I think I will definitely try them out. I don't mind paying a premium price for photos that I plan on displaying or sharing.

One thing thelab told me was that the coding on the back of the print from the other lab that I used indicated that they increased density by 3 numbers and reduced yellow by 1 number (yet the actual print still had a yellow cast). Thelab felt that when printed on a properly calibrated equipment no changes AT ALL should have been required. Not sure why the other lab increased density since the finished print was so dark that my daughters hair was completely black and showed no detail!

Bob

[Bob_A]

Rick,

I forgot to ask ... do either Henry's or Carmen's ensure that they print with all automated image enhancement turned off? For example, when you look on the back of the prints from them do you always see all N's, or do you also see some numbers replacing the N's?

Thanks again,

Bob

[mbze430]

most places only turn them off if you request them. But if you do request that, make sure you have an ICC profile that they provide. Or you will end up making your own. Without one, you will not be able to soft-proof correctly.

Talk to the lab and ask if they have profile. If they tell you to convert it to Adobe RGB or sRGB. Depending how serious your work are, go with another lab. It WILL have a color shift. How bad? Only way to find out is try one....

For me, since I have the equipment, I profiled my local lab's Noritsu. Spend about $20. I had them make me total of 6 prints of 5x7 3xmatte and 3xglossy and profile them.

[Bob_A]

thelab from Vancouver said that I would need to download the ICC profile of their machine so that they could closely match what I see on my own monitor. They also said that since every monitor is a bit different it could take one or two tries to get the color and density just the way I want it.

So far their service seems excellent ... and I've only sent them a single test file.


Bob

[mbze430]

profile your monitor, and you will be in great condition to get perfect prints from this lab.

[Olegis]

thelab from Vancouver said that I would need to download the ICC profile of their machine so that they could closely match what I see on my own monitor.

I was just going to suggest it. I print my pictures in a local professional lab, which provided me with the profiles for two printers, so I prepare all my pictures using these profiles. Another step towards the ultimate quality and color / brightness consistency would be calibrating your monitor using one of the calibration kits (the Spyder seems to be the most popular one) and make sure that the monitors in the lab are also calibrated using similar method.

[Bob_A]

Thanks Oleg

[Bob_A]

Just got my sample prints from TheLab in Vancouver, B.C. ( www.thelabvancouver.com ) and they are amazing. I also sent a bunch of jpegs to them this morning and I'll let everyone know how they turn out. I'm happy to be able to report that their quality looks like it will match their service.

I did have a bit of trouble sending them a 180 MB zip file with my images (transfer failed the first time after 140 MB), and the transfer rate was slow (took 2 1/2 hours). Next time I'll send it in several smaller zip files instead of one big one.

Bob

[RickHulshof]

Rick,

I forgot to ask ... do either Henry's or Carmen's ensure that they print with all automated image enhancement turned off? For example, when you look on the back of the prints from them do you always see all N's, or do you also see some numbers replacing the N's?

Thanks again,

Bob

I don't have any prints handy right now to check but from what I understand Carmens does all adjustment manually. Best to email them and ask

[Bob_A]

Thanks Rick, I'll check them out.