Weddings - to flash or not to flash!???

[djharmonix]

Hi everybody,
I did my first professionnal wedding shoot last month and I have another one saturday.

My first wedding was done outside, under a little roof surrouded by gardens. It was very easy to shoot without flash, worst comes to worst I had fast lens (24-70mm 2.8 and 85mm 1.2) for low light shots.

My partner (we cover each wedding together) who uses nikon was using SB-800's as fill in flash.

After seeing the results, I like my shots better as the skin tones are more natural. His look more washed out.

My question is:
My wedding saturday is taking place in a chapel, then a hotel reception. Since I'll probably need the flash this time, do you have any settings recommendation so the light doesn't look so harsh and doesn't modify the skintones??

I'm using 580ex and lightsphere as a diffuser.

I'm used to shoot in nightclubs with those where light smoothness is less an issue...

Thanks for any help!!

I was thinking of shooting at fast aperture with iso 800, so flash is just a fill in light or something!!

I'm using 2 5D bodies.

[OdiN1701]

If you balance the fill and ambient you should be fine. The idea (especially outdoors) is not to have the sky all blown out, white, etc. while still having the subjects lit well.

If you don't use fill flash outdoors, in some situations you either have a properly exposed sky and can't see the subjects as they are really dark - or the subjects are fine but the sky is gone.

A good tip is to use a wide aperture (to let all that flash light in), balance the exposure for the sky and dial the flash down to about -1. I only dial up if I'm far away that I need some extra power.

[djharmonix]

When shooting nightclubs I use the M setting with the flash at Ettl.

typically i shoot at F4, 1/90th or 1/125th and ISO 800 or 1600.

ANd I let the flash do the rest!

Can you rely on the flash as much during a wedding?

If I blast the bride's dress during the kiss I'm finished!!

[djharmonix]

please help! The big day is coming!

[NathanJK]

You were just helped, did you read what Andrew said above you? He basically gave you a recipe to follow to ensure decent results. I don't want to sound tooo harsh, but if you don't understand how to balance flash and ambient light (not to mention the color temperatures of each) you REALLY need to learn before you go shooting any more weddings. If you don't want to learn then you must realize your pictures will look the same as the guests do with their point and shoots. At that point, your services are superfluous. I hate to be the guy who links to the strobist site (I love it, but EVERYONE links there always!) but read lighting 101 and realize that his lessons on balancing flash and ambient directly apply to ON camera flash as well, which is where you should probably start. http://strobist.blogspot.com/2006/03/lighting-101.html

[djharmonix]

Thanks for your input.

You are right that I should learn before my next wedding. I should learn about flashes but I could do a very good job without them.

my question is WHAT IF i need them...

You got to understand that I use my stobes in a studio where it's all about artificial light. Or else it's outside with fast lenses, no flash

Now I wanna be ready for every situation, if it's too dark for my lenses for example.

I've read what OdiN1701 has posted but i'm missing more technical infos, he gave me basic pointers that I already apply.

What I need to know is how you setup your flash and camera in those situations. I tought people could share their tastes and experiences like I do when I help other people.

Thanks for your contribution thought.

[james_in_baltimore]

I think you are on the right track. Go with a higher ISO(800+), slowest shutter speed you can get away(usually over 1/60) with and as wide open as you can(f/2.8-f/4), depending on the depth of field needed. Always bounce the flash if possible. Ettl is pretty good at exposing wedding dresses while not blowing them out, but depending on the frame you may need to do some +-FEC to get the exposure right. Remember to check your histogram.

This is just an approximation of what I would do, others may approach it differently. Also, a lot depends on the venue.

btw- if you are shooting outdoors on a sunny day, fill flash is essential.

[OdiN1701]

Well what I do is this:

ISO around 200-400, depending on the shot.

wide aperture - this lets the flash light in. Shutter speed is going to affect more of the sky/ambient light than the fill flash.

Take a meter reading off of the sky. You want to use a shutter speed which will expose the sky properly with a wider aperture.

Keep the flash on auto, and just dial down about -1 flash exposure. Take the shot. You should have decent results, and anything not quite right should be fixable if you're using RAW. Check your histogram.

You may have to enable high speed sync on your flash in very bright outdoor conditions. Mainly because you want that wide open aperture, and to get it you may end up with a shutter of 1/500 to get the sky right.

As your subjects are farther away, you may have to leave the flash at 0 or maybe +1, depending.

I don't really know how much more technical I could get here.


This is more specific for fill flash outdoors btw. With indoors, go with what James said.


Oh and also for indoors I find that bounce flash is better than any diffuser I've used, assuming it works for you.

[LeesaB]

Thanks for your input.

You are right that I should learn before my next wedding. I should learn about flashes but I could do a very good job without them.

my question is WHAT IF i need them...

You got to understand that I use my stobes in a studio where it's all about artificial light. Or else it's outside with fast lenses, no flash

Now I wanna be ready for every situation, if it's too dark for my lenses for example.

I've read what OdiN1701 has posted but i'm missing more technical infos, he gave me basic pointers that I already apply.

What I need to know is how you setup your flash and camera in those situations. I tought people could share their tastes and experiences like I do when I help other people.

Thanks for your contribution thought.

Depending on your lighting I'm not sure you COULD do very good without a flash. Outside I will use my flash as a fill, but in low light dark chapels or churches, I use my lightsphere and bounce off the ceiling or wall.

I shoot AV, hopefully you have a good lens possibly the 28-70.

Plus you have to hope that the pastor will allow flash as it's his "house" and he rules!

Let us know how it goes.

[stathunter]

Don't be afraid to shoot your shots without flash. Shoot M and don't be afraid of higher ISO. Your 5D will get some great shots--- play around a little. I am not one to use flash during the ceremony. I am there to capture the moment not to stick out like a sore thumb.

[zerovision]

I'm probably not the best person to give advise on flash tips, but I play around with bounce flash quite a bit and I recommend you scope out the locations to see how much natural light is coming in and especially the ceiling height and wall colors to see if you can get proper bounce with your flash. Some high dollar wedding pros stress that they never use direct flash, but you did mention that you have a light sphere.

I work with both lenses you mentioned and I have also taken shots indoors with no flash. Even in low light both lenses work well, but usually very high ISO (3200). With the right WB adjustment you can still get good shots, but most of the time you also get high noise. PP is then needed when the right flash would eliminate some PP.

Go take some pics at both locations. Can you invest in one or two 430s? If you can afford two 430's you have the ability to set your on camera flash to control both off camera strobes from anywhere in the room as long as the IR on the strobes are facing at the necessary angles when you take the pictures. If you want to increase the flash of one strobe over the other, it can all be done from the on camera flash. You simply set each strobe to a different channel (A,B & C).

Each strobe can be mounted on a light weight stand and easily placed in key locations in the room.

**** A very important problem I have come across using my flash is, I alway use lithium batteries, but I notice that when I use my flash a lot in one session that the batteries heat up and slow the cycle time down. I don't know if it is just because they are Lithium batteries, or not, but I end up changing the batteries even though I can put them back in later after they have cooled down. ****

[james_in_baltimore]

**** A very important problem I have come across using my flash is, I alway use lithium batteries, but I notice that when I use my flash a lot in one session that the batteries heat up and slow the cycle time down. I don't know if it is just because they are Lithium batteries, or not, but I end up changing the batteries even though I can put them back in later after they have cooled down. ****

I read somewhere that it is a problem with lithium batteries. Get yourself a good set of low-discharge NIMH batts and a good charger. You'll save a bunch of money and shouldn't have the problem with heat anymore.

[zerovision]

Thanks james_in_baltimore, I will change my batteries. I appreciate the suggestion.

[djharmonix]

WOW thank you so much guys for your input!

That's why i love this forum so much, I get alot of help and I love to help other people in return.

I will go check the location prior to the ceremony and maybe think of a multiple flash setup. I do have 3x 580ex and like 2 430ex and one sigma so it's not a matter of equipment just the know-how...

I will run various tests this week, both indoor and outdoor to experiment what you guys advised me.

Then I'll post pics of the final results on sunday!!

Thank you so much again !
If you think of anything else let me know.

[cdifoto]

I pretty much always use flash at weddings, unless it's prohibited (ie ceremonies). Your partner's washed out images are not due to the use of flash but rather to the fact that he doesn't know how to use flash effectively.

[djharmonix]

I pretty much always use flash at weddings, unless it's prohibited (ie ceremonies). Your partner's washed out images are not due to the use of flash but rather to the fact that he doesn't know how to use flash effectively.

that's what i wanted to confirm... ;)

I'm gonna experiment both with and without flash throughout the night.

I will have the 24mm 1.4L and 85mm 1.2L to save my butt if i fail with the flash!!

[zerovision]

When using the fill flash outside, remember not to meter on the subject, but something in the back ground so that the background has proper exposure. When you check out the place try metering in the background that has good light and then fill flash on a tree trunk that is completely shaded. I have read that green grass is a good subject to take a meter reading from especially in spot metering.

[tim]

I hope you're not planning to experiment at the wedding. Basic flash is pretty simple - put it on and put the camera into P mode. Flash though, as a topic, can be intimidating to people who don't understand the technical details.

Jump into the lighting forum, find the EOS flash sticky, read the EOS flash bible. That will give you some of the technical information. Then read The Strobist and Planet Neil. That will show you what's possible, and how to achieve it.

Becoming competent with flash can be done in a couple of weeks, if you apply yourself. Becoming really good can take a year or two.

One thing I will say is it's irresponsible to photograph a wedding, calling yourself a professional, without knowledge of how to take a good photo in any condition between full summer sunlight and complete darkness. You will get tripped up some time, it's not if, it's when. So read what I suggested, experiment, apply yourself, and you'll learn it's not so hard.

[djharmonix]

I can still get away with results that impress the customer without the flash... Thats what I did at the last wedding.

The conditions were changing throughout the day but I adapt with the fast lens and worst comes to worst in PP.

I have no problems calling myself a professionnal even tho I don't completely master the flashes!

[form]

Basic flash is simple, bouncing flash is useful - if the subjects are near a wall (especially a white one), you can set an ettl flash to about +2/3 stop, shoot in raw, and point the flash at the wall behind you or to the side. It will create a larger, softer light source. I use bounce flash often - but I also frequently use an off camera flash on a swivel bracket with an umbrella, held with one hand, and my camera in the other. I also often use several off camera flashes at once, especially for dance shots.

I haven't done a full wedding where I didn't need flash. I also haven't done a full wedding where I didn't ever feel stressed at least once.

[birdman59]

Better check with the person doing the ceremony. I did my son's wedding at a church and the pastor would not allow me to use a flash or move around during the ceremony. Really sucked. the walls of the church were painted yellow and the whole place was lit with incandescent bulbs. Everyone looked like they had liver disease.

[zerovision]

Better check with the person doing the ceremony. I did my son's wedding at a church and the pastor would not allow me to use a flash or move around during the ceremony. Really sucked. the walls of the church were painted yellow and the whole place was lit with incandescent bulbs. Everyone looked like they had liver disease.



This is when a fast lens and the kelvin "K" setting on the WB of your camera can make a huge difference. f/1.2, f/2.8 or maybe as high as an f/4L with the proper kelvin setting will off set the yellow glow and give the pictures a more natural look.

If you have lightroom or photoshop, etc, you may still be able to use the adjustments menu to correct the color or you could even convert them to B&W and they may turn out even better.

[birdman59]

This is when a fast lens and the kelvin "K" setting on the WB of your camera can make a huge difference. f/1.2, f/2.8 or maybe as high as an f/4L with the proper kelvin setting will off set the yellow glow and give the pictures a more natural look.

If you have lightroom or photoshop, etc, you may still be able to use the adjustments menu to correct the color or you could even convert them to B&W and they may turn out even better.

I downloaded 30 trial of lightroom and processed the whole job. The white balance turned out really well. They were really happy and that's all that mattered!!

[Fingertip]

I just did a wedding last weekend as a videographer.
When I walked into the church I noticed 2 alien bees strobes set up at the back of the church pointed up at the ceiling and thought "yeah, this guy knows what he's doing".
Then the ceremony started and every time he took a shot it took me a few seconds to recover from the blinding flash. I'm sure his pictures came out great, but he completely ruined the atmosphere of the wedding.
If you are going to use flash, I would make sure the couple understands the effect it will have on the guests.
I am leaning towards the "No flash, Period" during the ceremony, and explaining to the customer that I am trying to respect their wedding.
I think there is room for both flash and no-flash photographers in the market as long as the customers know what they are going to get.

[zerovision]

I just did a wedding last weekend as a videographer.
When I walked into the church I noticed 2 alien bees strobes set up at the back of the church pointed up at the ceiling and thought "yeah, this guy knows what he's doing".
Then the ceremony started and every time he took a shot it took me a few seconds to recover from the blinding flash. I'm sure his pictures came out great, but he completely ruined the atmosphere of the wedding.
If you are going to use flash, I would make sure the couple understands the effect it will have on the guests.
I am leaning towards the "No flash, Period" during the ceremony, and explaining to the customer that I am trying to respect their wedding.
I think there is room for both flash and no-flash photographers in the market as long as the customers know what they are going to get.


I agree. I hear both sides a lot and both have good points. I can't understand how actors still have their vision sometimes. You see them on TV smiling and it looks like a strobe light is stuck in their face. I think flash is great and some photographers know how to use just the right amount of directional flash with a diffuser so there is just enough light on the bride and groom without disturbing the ceremony itself. I have not reached that level just yet, so I stick with the fast lenses and adjust the camera.

I know several photographers that use the Gary Fong whale tail diffusers that seem to work well when you are using the flash, but you don't have any good walls or ceilings to bounce from. They work well on lighting the bride and groom and not so much everywhere else.

I know that Bob Davis (La Storia Foto) uses Gary Fong whale tails even on two slaves when taking portraits after the wedding. They work well for directional light and are easy to transport.