Portraits with G5?

[alfisti]

I have decided to take portraits of my kids in my own house in a makeshift home studio.

I got an inexpensive tungsten kit (2 quartz halogens w/umbrellas) and I'm having trouble making it look the way I want.

The problem is how to narrow the depth of field. I open the lens up all the way to f/2 or f/2.2 (depending how far away I am standing and zooming in) and I see no difference. I believe this is due to the short focal length of the digital built-in lens.

I have set the camera to Av (aperture priority) and dial it to the lowest number.

So my questions are:
1) Am I doing it right?
1) what are my options? as I see it I could:
a) trade my camera for digital rebel, thereby losing $500 in the process
b) use my film SLR (Canon AE-1) for portrait photography (I'm a newbie though, and I'd feel lost doing this)
c) try some different camera settings?

Anyone have any advice?

Thanks

[S45_fornow...]

Have you tried backing up far enough to use full-zoom? That should give you more blur in the background.

Or... Move your kids closer to the lens and increase the distance between them and the background.

Could you post some examples of what you are getting now?

[alfisti]

Will do. They are on a PC at home, so I will upload later tonight.


Everything is really sharp though. Moving them further from the background is tough because the room is not a dedicated studio, and has other stuff in it.

[S45_fornow...]

Everything is really sharp though. Moving them further from the background is tough because the room is not a dedicated studio, and has other stuff in it.

I understand ;)

[Nabil-A]

Ive had some success manually setting the focus, while being in macro mode and zooming all the way into the subject. (not super macro). this tends to bring out the best background blur. The range of use is quite narrow, but when done right, ie
AV setting F2. Full telephoto zoom setting, macro and manually focussed. You will get great photos.

Otherwise you can always add to the effect by
1) reverting to post processing for smoothing or blurring the background. What i would do though, is take a photo of the subject with a high contrasting colour wall fill or sheet. This will enable easy and sharp extracting of your subject and placing it on a background of your choice.

2) create a second layer, place it on top of the original image, apply what ever blur effect your after, and then slowly bring out the details in the subject again. Time consuming, but works. Check out post processing on more ways to do this.


I recently took a portrature of a friends little kid and despite the background being a city landscape several hundred metres away and my settings being full telephoto
there was some sharp detail in the city still present. (AVset to F2, didnt try the macro method).

Ive heard the add on telephoto lens assists in reducing the depth of field as well so perhaps look into this a little more.

Otherwise, try to stay with F2-3 (your shortest depth of view setting, and experiment with macro).

[alfisti]

Nabil - that's interesting. I'm trying it now and my G5, and when I go to Macro mode, manual focus won't work (shuts off macro mode). Ditto the other way around - turn on MF and Macro mode cancels it.

Can you please provide more detail on how you do this?

Thanks

[Nabil-A]

This sounds like a G6 feature that the G5 doesnt support.. not sure though.

I simply choose macro mode. then press the MF button on the G6, after zooming all the way.

One word of warning, in macro mode on th g6 and i think most g cameras, you are limited to i think large quality setting or something like that. some one correct me... ie you cannot shoot raw in macro mode.

[alfisti]

What exactly does macro mode do? I understand it allows the lens to focus on closer objects.... but how does it do that?

[Nabil-A]

I take it back, choosing manual focus when in macro mode cancels the macro mode and vice versa. I just didnt notice the macro feature disapearing each time.

Still doesnt mean you cant use macro mode with auto focus for those close ups to reduce your depth of view.

[Mr. Messenger]

I realize that "it is, what it is", and you have to work around it. But, I still do not understand WHY Canon disables manual focus in macro mode, this is when focusing is so critical?!?

[Mr. Messenger]

What exactly does macro mode do? I understand it allows the lens to focus on closer objects.... but how does it do that?


It changes the alignment of the lens elements internally.

[pushtoexit]

Choosing Manual does not REALLY cancel Macro Mode. You can still manually focus under 24" (2 feet) in manual mode. Macro Mode is simply an Autofocus switch to tell the camera to look below 2 feet for focus. I would assume in Manual mode the photographer would already be aware of this.

[Willie]

There seems to be lots of confusion w/ depth of field. First, DOF is related to the following 4 basic things:
1. focal length
2. aperature
3. focusing distance
4. circle of confusion

Second, macro mode on any camera just allows it to focus at a closer distance, it cannot change DOF. The only way to change DOF is to change one of the above 4 numbers. The reason people think macro affects DOF is because they set it there, and then move in closer, thereby altering the subject distance. Moving closer to a subject decreases DOF. I see people posting pics showing how their G camera can have lots of bur in the background, but they're always extreme closeups of flowers and such. At that close range, the DOF of field is probably less than a foot.

Because DOF is tied to those 4 numbers, there is little you can do about it w/ G5 (or with any camera). The circle of confusion may be a debatable value, but in effect, it will always be close to what manufacturers determine. The smaller sensor size is what kills us users, since the circle of confusion shrinks, and the focal length is so small. It doesn't matter that my G5 has an "equivalent" focal length of 140mm zoomed in, when compared to 35mm format; it is still a real length of 28.8mm. That is a very small focal length, and getting a small DOF is hard. The only way you're going to get more background blur is by getting a DSLR.

The reason why an add-on telephoto causes more blur is because you are increasing the focal length. It's just like having more zoom on your lens.

Hope this helps
Willie

[Avalonthas]

Invest in a digital rebel and u will get some good BG blur.

[Andy_T]

Willie,

basically, your theory is all correct.

However, I've heard several times and seen examples that the Macro mode serves as a workaround to get shallow DOF on a G series camera. You have certainly heard that the very shallow DOF is one of the major challenges at macro photography.

It didn't work on my G2 when I tried it, as the complete picture was out of focus. Still, I've seen examples.

Another option is to get a teleconverter to increase focal length and also increase the distance to the subject. But as the confined space in the studio was already mentioned, that seems less like an alternative.

So if the macro mode won't work, then PS will be your only alternative. Take a look here: http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=58101

Or go with Avalonthas' suggestion and get the DRebel and the 50/1.8. Now you've got an excuse to do it :twisted:

Best regards,
Andy

[al606]

I would do 2 things, both simple:

1. hang a white (or any featureless) blanket behind the subjects...thumb tacks work great.
2. set up a flash behind the subjects to get rid of the annoying shadow, because they're just too close to the wall. You likely want to bounce it off the wall.

Then you won't have to worry about the background at all :)

good luck!

[Willie]

The only purpose of the macro mode is to enable the lens to focus at a closer distance than normal. The only reason one would use macro is to focus very close to a subject. In the G5, that would be from 5 to 50 cm at wide angle, and 15 to 50cm at full tele. Beyond 50 cm, macro would not focus. Therefore, if you enable macro, then that means you are moving the camera closer to focus. Of course this will narrow the depth of field, since DOF goes down as focusing distance goes down. That's why macro appears to create narrow DOF.

You can't get around the fact that DOF is based on nothing more than math and physics. It is a formula derived from aperature, focal length, subject distance, and circle of confusion. Once circle of cionfusion and acceptable near and far focused objects are agreed upon, there is no changing what a lens/camera combination can give for DOF.

Try focusing on an object with macro off and take a picture. Then turn macro on. You will need to move the camera closer to the subject, which will of course narrow the DOF.

The only way around this is to buy a camera with a larger sensor. That's the dilemma I'm facing as I see this limitation on my G5.

Regards,
Willie

[Nabil-A]

Willie,
you have too much time on your hands.

[Morfeatire]

the thing is there is a 5th basic thing DOF is related.

Its is directly related to the distance the subject is from the lens, the closer, the less DOF you'll have. Thats why Macro can make background stay out of focus.

On g5/G6 (or any other camera in the world) you can try to keep the subject a few meters from any background (it also avoids those ugly shadows as the portrait above) full tele, biggest apperture you can (3.0) and the closer you can get from the subject. You can also leave the subject at the end of you DOF, It will not have critical Focus, but will have acceptable focus (lill bit soft) that can be helped by some good selective Unsharp Mask.

You can use this site: http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html to calculate DOF

[infeeneetee]

attach ND filter?

[S45_fornow...]

attach ND filter?

No. With the aperture fully open for shallowest DOF, adding an ND filter would only cause a decrease in shutter speed which in turn would increase the possibility of motion blur from your subject (a person in the case of portrait shooting).

[Willie]

Thanks Nabil-A I really don't have that much time. 2 small kids make sure of that. :)

It actually only took about 5 minutes. DOF bugged me for a long time, and I researched it, that's why I had all the info.

Macro will get you closer, but only if you're 50cm or closer. That's about 2 feet, too close for portrait shots.

[alfisti]

The G5 already has an ND filter. SHoudl I turn it on?

[Nabil-A]

The G5 already has an ND filter. SHoudl I turn it on?

ND filters decrease the amount of light entering your camera without changing its colour characteristics. This enables you to add a bit of creativity to your photographs: use longer shutter speed to render water or leaves movement, apply smaller aperture to decrease depth of field and isolate a foreground point of interest from its background.

With indoor portrait shots reducing your shutter speed by turning on your nd filter is probably not that great an idea as chances are you'll be droppingbelow 1/60th of a second and opening up camera shake and subject movement blur issues.

Yes ND filters will allow you to choose larger aperture sizes and hence as 'Williie' has quite elequantly commented on.. decrease your DOF in this manner. But i wouldnt recommend turning ND filter on when shooting indoor portraits.