Charging for photo usage on a band's web site

[90c4]

I was contacted by the manager of a small but nationally touring band about photos I took at a recent concert. He said - "these are great photos! Would you allow us to use some of these on the artist's website and we'll credit you on them?"

The site has a photo gallery section with a dozen live shots and my gut instinct is to agree to having some of the shots featured there at no charge, but asking for compensation if they appear elsewhere on the site although (although there isn't really anywhere else on the site that I can see them using the shots). I have no clue how much to ask. Any thoughts?

[René Damkot]

If the images are good enough to be used, they are good enough to pay for IMO.

I tend to be pretty relaxed in pricing, but have had too many images lifted of a site, ending up on band sites. So I'm more strict nowadays.

I mostly use a line like "Copyright of the images stays with me, so if you would be interested in using any for web or other purposes, please contact me for usage rates." if I notify a band images are online. (I think Blackshadow came up with that line. Thnx again!)

Some of them even get the message :p

For myspace I might give some images, if it's a small local band for instance. Otherwise, or for a band website, they can pay.

Depending on usage: Gallery of images: 15 euro / image. Promotional use: x10.

And that's for smallish bands.

[gymell]

Think about it the other way around, would the band let a business use some of their songs on its website only "for credit" or would they charge for it?

[londonblue007]

Bands get a cut of the money from songs that are sold on websites. Myspace, Purevolume, iTunes etc.

If a song is .99 cents on iTunes, they get something like 70 cents from the sale.

Photos get put on all these sites (with the exception of iTunes). If a photo is going to get used alongside items that are for sale, whats the difference IMO.
The band is using imagery that you created (of them of course) to promo a song someone is going to buy. I think a little cut of that funding is in order....

[DDCSD]

Any one else have any opinions on this? I've been approached on this subject as well. I don't want to give anything away and I don't want to overshoot on things.

[skifurthur]

I often allow even bands to use some photos on the web (only) for no compensation besides photo credit. I look at it this way...

Many bands don't know me from Adam. By allowing minor use I establish a working relation with that band. In my self-marketing follow up I alert them to the services and quality that I provide and float some possible future projects.

So far, I've done fairly well with additional work for compensation well exceeding what I may have gotten from pricing a single photo. Of course I realize that it's all up to me to make legitimate business proposals and have figures ready to show that all parties end up making some money. I don't depend on the performer's management to reach out to me.

[Compact Diss]

This reason I photograph bands.

I love seeing a live show, enjoy different styles of music, and my love of photography.

I got tired of being a hustler. Bands would contact me for photos, I would name a price or ask for the usage fee, 99 out of 100 times I never heard from them again.

When I did the WBCN Rumble (battle of the bands) a couple of years ago I photographed 29 bands. I had many bands inquire to use my photos, I decided on $15.00 per image, every single band that inquired, never inquired again after they were told my price.

Out of 29 bands, not one band was willing to pay $15.00!!
A couple of years later one band's management did contact me, and paid me to use photos for his new CD, and it was much more than the original $15.00.

I get a sour taste from bands that treat us this way, we take the time to photograph, edit, post, make people aware of the photos. Give the band free promotion by doing so, then when we ask for a fee...well, like I say, most of them run in the other direction....

I've slowed down on the local club circuit because of this. I find it easier to accept this behavior from bands on the touring circuit(bigger venues). They provide me with a free admission, I get to enjoy the show, I take photos, post them and promote them the same way, hope to hear from someone in their camp who would like to purchase them in the future.

Early on I used to request CD's, or merchandise in exchange for pics, one band member told me how much they spent on their new design, yet he wanted free pics from me...

When I say I got tired of the hustling, what I should probably say, is that I got tired of photographing shows with the hopes that bands would offer money for the pics, it just never really happened for me.

Maybe my pics are not the greatest, maybe the venues I chose (ME upstairs) didn't have the best lighting so the pics were not the best. Maybe I chose bands that had no money...well, that's what all the bands tells me so I don't know how true or false that is...

Tonight I am photographing a mainstream band, I actually bought my ticket because I didn't think I was going to have an assignment, but whatever, I am seeing a live show, ticket would have been provided. I enjoy the band, enjoy their music. I am going to have a great time. I expect nothing to come of the photos besides me posting a set of eight here, a gallery of about 30 on my site, and my sending out a bunch of emails and bulletins to make people aware of the photos.

If I expect to make money doing this I will become disgruntled, angry, feel used, and none of it will be worth it. My only advice is to photograph bands that you enjoy, go there for the show, for the love of music, enjoy what you do, maybe the money fairy will sprinkle some money your way, or a nice magazine spread will be offered, or a CD cover...

Joe

[DDCSD]

I often allow even bands to use some photos on the web (only) for no compensation besides photo credit. I look at it this way...

Many bands don't know me from Adam. By allowing minor use I establish a working relation with that band. In my self-marketing follow up I alert them to the services and quality that I provide and float some possible future projects.

So far, I've done fairly well with additional work for compensation well exceeding what I may have gotten from pricing a single photo. Of course I realize that it's all up to me to make legitimate business proposals and have figures ready to show that all parties end up making some money. I don't depend on the performer's management to reach out to me.

Very good points.

This reason I photograph bands.

I love seeing a live show, enjoy different styles of music, and my love of photography.

I got tired of being a hustler. Bands would contact me for photos, I would name a price or ask for the usage fee, 99 out of 100 times I never heard from them again.

When I did the WBCN Rumble (battle of the bands) a couple of years ago I photographed 29 bands. I had many bands inquire to use my photos, I decided on $15.00 per image, every single band that inquired, never inquired again after they were told my price.

Out of 29 bands, not one band was willing to pay $15.00!!
A couple of years later one band's management did contact me, and paid me to use photos for his new CD, and it was much more than the original $15.00.

I get a sour taste from bands that treat us this way, we take the time to photograph, edit, post, make people aware of the photos. Give the band free promotion by doing so, then when we ask for a fee...well, like I say, most of them run in the other direction....

I've slowed down on the local club circuit because of this. I find it easier to accept this behavior from bands on the touring circuit(bigger venues). They provide me with a free admission, I get to enjoy the show, I take photos, post them and promote them the same way, hope to hear from someone in their camp who would like to purchase them in the future.

Early on I used to request CD's, or merchandise in exchange for pics, one band member told me how much they spent on their new design, yet he wanted free pics from me...

When I say I got tired of the hustling, what I should probably say, is that I got tired of photographing shows with the hopes that bands would offer money for the pics, it just never really happened for me.

Maybe my pics are not the greatest, maybe the venues I chose (ME upstairs) didn't have the best lighting so the pics were not the best. Maybe I chose bands that had no money...well, that's what all the bands tells me so I don't know how true or false that is...

Tonight I am photographing a mainstream band, I actually bought my ticket because I didn't think I was going to have an assignment, but whatever, I am seeing a live show, ticket would have been provided. I enjoy the band, enjoy their music. I am going to have a great time. I expect nothing to come of the photos besides me posting a set of eight here, a gallery of about 30 on my site, and my sending out a bunch of emails and bulletins to make people aware of the photos.

If I expect to make money doing this I will become disgruntled, angry, feel used, and none of it will be worth it. My only advice is to photograph bands that you enjoy, go there for the show, for the love of music, enjoy what you do, maybe the money fairy will sprinkle some money your way, or a nice magazine spread will be offered, or a CD cover...

Joe


Certainly food for thought. I hate the idea of giving anything away for "credit", but I am thinking that allowing some photos for web use may lead to "real" paying gigs in the future. As you spoke to, I'm not sure that demanding $10-15 for web gallery usage would be worth the potential bridges burnt.

And if no one will pay you for web usage of your photos, I'd be delusional to think anyone would pay for mine. :)

I'm a bit torn on this.

[canadatv]

Derek, I'm in the same boat you are, photographing a lot of acts that come to town. The one's that "need" the images don't have the money to pay, the one's that have the money don't need the images. A couple have paid for images, others don't. I've done a few promo shoots for free in order to "build my port", and I hope this will translate into paying work in the future, but to be honest ever dollar that comes in I will treat as a bonus over and above my love of the art. I would be dillusional to think this can be a full time job.

[Compact Diss]

I'm in a different area than you.
Most shows I attend I usually have one or two other photogs, big shows, forget it, last night at Slipknot, I think there were about 18-19 others...You may have a better deal at making some money, and enjoying yourself. As for the full time job thing, I don't know if anyone can do that in this business anymore (concert photography), but I don't know what a club scene in Dakota is like either, or Washington, or anywhere else besides Boston/Cambridge...I can only go with what I know, and that's not much!

[DDCSD]

I'm in a different area than you.
Most shows I attend I usually have one or two other photogs, big shows, forget it, last night at Slipknot, I think there were about 18-19 others...You may have a better deal at making some money, and enjoying yourself. As for the full time job thing, I don't know if anyone can do that in this business anymore (concert photography), but I don't know what a club scene in Dakota is like either, or Washington, or anywhere else besides Boston/Cambridge...I can only go with what I know, and that's not much!

I think I'm pretty fortunate and unfortunate to be where I am. I've gotten some very good photos from the last two concerts that I shot, so I'm going to approach the local Sioux Falls paper and see if they'd like to run some live concert photos. They don't run any now unless its a huge name, and the shots that they do run aren't very good usually. I'm hoping that will at least pay for my gas money and a bit of my time. :)

The only problem is that there isn't much of a market for concert photos here though, other than the paper. :(

For example, I shot Mudvayne last week. I would consider them to be a fairly big name, and they didn't even send a photographer out. The only other photog there was a girl that "freelances" like me (in other words, basically shoots for fun ;)). It was the same at the As I Lay Dying Concert a couple of weeks ago. The paper will run a preview story, and then nothing after the show.

[narlus]

The only problem is that there isn't much of a market for concert photos here though, other than the paper. :(


if they actually want to run a shot, the paper might be content licensing a wire image from Retna, Getty or AP...also keep in mind the tight turnarounds associated w/ getting an image to a newspaper in time for the morning edition...

[narlus]

I'm in a different area than you.
Most shows I attend I usually have one or two other photogs, big shows, forget it, last night at Slipknot, I think there were about 18-19 others...

last night i was the only one @ the ICA for High Places.

let's hope they get huge! ;)

[DDCSD]

if they actually want to run a shot, the paper might be content licensing a wire image from Retna, Getty or AP...also keep in mind the tight turnarounds associated w/ getting an image to a newspaper in time for the morning edition...

Yeah, but they don't even bother doing that. :(

I'm not sure what their deadline is, but I'm sure I'd have to transmit from the concert to make it (if possible, not sure that would be soon enough even).

I'm just holding out hope (what little there may be), they're my only real market in the area. :(

last night i was the only one @ the ICA for High Places.

let's hope they get huge! ;)

I know what you mean! :lol:

[The Moose]

I've shot my friends band a few times. The first time was for myself but I let them use the photos on their myspace. Next time, they gave me free entry and AU$20 for some promo shots as well. Not much but better than nothing. I let them use the photos on their myspace again too. I added a few more bands on myspace and spoke to them about shooting for them. One of them asked if I charged and I said entry and a shirt would be fine (since I'm still new to the game) but I never heard back from them. The gig isn't for another 10 days so I'm undecided if I'll even bother turning up! Another band haven't got any gigs going for them right now but I think they're keen to get me to come along.

I enjoy shooting bands and to be honest, I think I'd prefer local bands and smaller venues with a little bit of money than huge bands at large venues for the first 3 songs only (i.e. doing this as a pro). I want to keep enjoying it and I don't think that would happen as much when it's all about the money because I love shooting a band while listening to their music that I like.