It's -=Official=- New Rebel thread - The EOS Digital Rebel XT

[Mogwyth]

http://www.pma-show.com/review/canon/001_EOS_digital_rebel_xt.html

[Tom W]

I was just about to paste that link. Nice job!

[trevor51590]

wow and to think i just got a rebel not too long ago :( what major advantages does it have then the rebel now?

edit: Users can now select between three focus modes: One-Shot AF, AI SERVO and AI Focus.

can we just use the firmware of the xt on the regular rebels?

[FlyingPete]

Hmmm, black or silver, 8MP, 3fps up to 14 frames smaller lighter etc...

Perhaps I didn't need to fork out for my 20D?

[mbze430]

hehe, it's like a 20D rebadged or what? Guess I shouldn't have gotten the 20D so soon. Maybe I need to get my self a 1d mkII

[CyberDyneSystems]

This looks really GOOD!

Mogwyth,. you get the "no prize" for the update!

Your thread is now -=Official=- and any random Rebel XT threads will be merged with this one.

[pcasciola]

Looks like something else is official. You are over 10,000 posts now, CDS!!!!

I expected your title to change from moderator to super moderator or something. :D

[FlyingPete]

Its a N**** D70 killer!

[Jemmind]

is there any way to see a side by side comparison of 300D, XT, and 20D? (in table format, not long paragraphs)
Main features vs. cost?

Julie

[CyberDyneSystems]

Heheh,., I've allways been Super ;)

Users can now select between three focus modes: One-Shot AF, AI SERVO and AI Focus. Writing to memory card is 3.5 times faster and the interface is upgraded to USB 2.0 Hi-Speed for fast image downloads. Mirror lock-up and 2nd curtain flash have also been added

And there saying the CMOS is IMPROVED over the 20D!!!

High-end exposure control: The EOS Rebel XT Digital retains the accurate 35 zone TTL metering of the EOS Rebel. The three metering modes (evaluative, partial, and centre weighted average) are now manually selectable and both exposure compensation and exposure bracketing are available in 1/2 stop increments as well as the 1/3 stop increments of the Canon EOS Rebel. The Canon EOS Digital Rebel XT Digital retains the popular Programmed Image Control modes of the Canon Rebel, such as Night Portrait, Sports, Close-up, Landscape, Portrait and Flash OFF.

No need for a Hack on this Rebel,. ;)

[schmoelzel]

May I suggest to all DRebel owners that you install the firmware hack, you'll attain the little extras like mirror-lockup, one-shot mode, etc etc., and spend your money on some nice glass!!:D Interesting announcement but it doesn't seem so earth-shattering to me. But then again, I haven't had a chance to play with this thing so who knows.........all I know is that I will continue to be content with my hacked DRebel and my 135f2 lens...........

[Mogwyth]

This looks really GOOD!

Mogwyth,. you get the "no prize" for the update!

Your thread is now -=Official=- and any random Rebel XT threads will be merged with this one.

As Homer would say Woohoo, the "no prize" ???????????????:D and I get a sticky cooool.

Glad to be of service. it looks almost good enough to think about upgrading from the 300D/RebelD, depending on the price.

[Tom W]

Note also that there is apparently a new 60 mm f/2.8 EF-S Macro lens. Very interesting, and something I'd not have expected.

[CyberDyneSystems]

No prize is in the mail :lol:

Price?,. used 300D/Rebels are going to be rock bottom!


Can somone remind me what camera used the BG ED3 grip? Wasn't that the 10D, D60, D30 grip? This is what is in the picture with the new RebelXT?

[Tom W]

This might knock 10D's down a notch as well. This baby's got FEC and a black (or silver) body. Very nice.

[defordphoto]

Looks like the grip might accept an NP-E3 type battery. There is a mysterious latch over there on the BG-E3 grip that looks oddly like the latch on my MKII.

[defordphoto]

No prize is in the mail :lol:

Price?,. used 300D/Rebels are going to be rock bottom!


Can somone remind me what camera used the BG ED3 grip? Wasn't that the 10D, D60, D30 grip? This is what is in the picture with the new RebelXT?

No. The grip in the pic is a BG-E3. All new...

[FlyingPete]

This might knock 10D's down a notch as well. This baby's got FEC and a black (or silver) body. Very nice.

My quick read is I would take on of these over a 10D, in fact I might have even got one over my 20D, and spent more $$$ on glass! The only reason I got the 20D was the 300D's pathetic frame buffer.

[Tom W]

Hey, the EF-S 18-55 f/3.5-5.6 is now Mark II. Wonder what they did to improve it?

[FlyingPete]

Hey, the EF-S 18-55 f/3.5-5.6 is now Mark II. Wonder what they did to improve it?

Nice spotting, looks the same otherwise though, usually there are some cosmetic changes.

Now for those no US people around, is it a 350D or a 300Dx?

[Tom W]

And, the article mentions "more than 60 Canon lenses", which seems to me to be an increase in quantity. Wonder what else Canon's going to announce.....

[Tom W]

My quick read is I would take on of these over a 10D, in fact I might have even got one over my 20D, and spent more $$$ on glass! The only reason I got the 20D was the 300D's pathetic frame buffer.

My take is that I'll be able to snag a very inexpensive used 10D - maybe even my old one. :)

EDIT: Then again, this is likely a better camera in many ways than the 10D, excepting for the Mag Alloy body that I like so well.

I don't know, but its exciting anyway. :)

[Mogwyth]

No prize is in the mail :lol:

Price?,. used 300D/Rebels are going to be rock bottom!


Can somone remind me what camera used the BG ED3 grip? Wasn't that the 10D, D60, D30 grip? This is what is in the picture with the new RebelXT?

Ah shucks save the postage maybe I collect it someday.

I would actual keep my Rebel for a backup and for my daughter to use, what ever I get next so the probable price drop is not important.

[CyberDyneSystems]

Missed the lack of a "D" .. It uses a new battery alltogether as well,. no more BP511. this is a draw back for 20D owners looking for a back up,.. but I assume the new battery is smaller,. the grip will take two,. or 6 AA batts.

[Mogwyth]

Nice spotting, looks the same otherwise though, usually there are some cosmetic changes.

Now for those no US people around, is it a 350D or a 300Dx?

350D must admit I was expecting 300Dx:( It's mentioned just below the first picture.

[FlyingPete]

Who has quickly read the whole article, and breezed over this little gem:

New EF-S 60mm f/2.8 Macro USM lens.

[mmartinfan]

sorry bout posting the topic........ oooops I guess I should open both eyes before I post.....

[CyberDyneSystems]

No worries,..

Anyone else notice the D70 advert on the PMA report site,.. it kinda looks sad and lonely next to the new Rebel :lol: :lol:

[FlyingPete]

Missed the lack of a "D" .. It uses a new battery alltogether as well,. no more BP511. this is a draw back for 20D owners looking for a back up,.. but I assume the new battery is smaller,. the grip will take two,. or 6 AA batts.

B*gger. Canon NB -2LH Li-Ion. I suppose that was a matter of time. A shame the BP also takes those, would be nice to still have a BP-511 Option.

NB-2L is only 600Mah as well, not sure what the 'H' Version will be, but I would bet this doesn't have the battery life of the 20D with its stock battery.

[michael.luczkow]

my rule on cameras... if it costs over a grand it better be made of metal :-) I'm sticking with my 20D decision! :-)

[KevC]

Hm. Still only up to ISO1600? I wonder how the low light performance is. That's the biggest reason I want to move to a 20D.

[Scottes]

"Rebel XT" ?

This thing is a 19.5D.


It's late, I'm tired: Anyone have a short list of what the 20D has over this besides 5 fps?

[Tom W]

B*gger. Canon NB -2LH Li-Ion. I suppose that was a matter of time. A shame the BP also takes those, would be nice to still have a BP-511 Option.

NB-2L is only 600Mah as well, not sure what the 'H' Version will be, but I would bet this doesn't have the battery life of the 20D with its stock battery.

Smaller battery is probably how they managed to fit everything into a smaller, lighter shell. I hope that efficiency improvements allow the battery to last at least as long as the present setup does in the D-Reb.

[who me?]

Hmmmm, I wonder how many people will accidentally turn or off the camera when changing shooting modes. Not sure if I like that power button there. Interesting place for the LCD that displays the camera settings. That probably helped with the overall size.
Now if the price is less than the original 300, this is going to be more of a D70 killer than it appears to be now.
Still glad I got my 20D.

[Tom W]

"Rebel XT" ?

This thing is a 19.5D.


It's late, I'm tired: Anyone have a short list of what the 20D has over this besides 5 fps?

Mag alloy body, 9-point AF scheme, I think that the D-Reb retains the previous focus scheme. Possibly longer battery life. ISO 50 & 3200. O.2 extra megapixels (wow!!). Rear dial and Elan-type ergonomics.

Haven't really had any time to compare specs yet - but this baby looks pretty doggone good to me!

[FlyingPete]

"Rebel XT" ?

This thing is a 19.5D.


It's late, I'm tired: Anyone have a short list of what the 20D has over this besides 5 fps?

I've got ISO3200, metal body, larger frame buffer, that spinny wheel thingy, 'normal' batteries. Can't find anything on start up time, custom functions, and focus points.

Doesn't seem to have a drive mode button, does have a metering mode button though!

[Fills]

Smaller battery is probably how they managed to fit everything into a smaller, lighter shell. I hope that efficiency improvements allow the battery to last at least as long as the present setup does in the D-Reb.

"DIGIC II is part of the reason that the Canon EOS Rebel XT is capable of taking 600 shots on just a single battery charge."

New processor is claiming less operating time.

[Fills]

I've got ISO3200, metal body, larger frame buffer, that spinny wheel thingy, 'normal' batteries. Can't find anything on start up time, custom functions, and focus points.

Doesn't seem to have a drive mode button, does have a metering mode button though!

350D does have 0.2 sec start up. Must be the same amount of focus points as previous Rebel.... does not seem to state.

Also, the 20D has 1/8000 shutter speed, 350D appears to be 1/4000.

[Bodog]

Finally! What the original rebel should have been. Nothing crippled. Did anyone get a price? Now, do I want a second body, or sell the old one?

[Tom W]

$899 US body only, $999 with the kit lens. According to posters at FM.

[Tom W]

"DIGIC II is part of the reason that the Canon EOS Rebel XT is capable of taking 600 shots on just a single battery charge."

New processor is claiming less operating time.

Thanks - I missed the battery life information.

[Tom W]

350D does have 0.2 sec start up. Must be the same amount of focus points as previous Rebel.... does not seem to state.

Also, the 20D has 1/8000 shutter speed, 350D appears to be 1/4000.

I saw 7 focus points in one of the images on the PMA site - same as previous Rebel (I think) and definately same as my old 10D.

[CyberDyneSystems]

It's a veritable dust up,. a frackas,. Canon is cleaning house and cleaning Nikon's clock!

//circa mid 1940's ringside announcer mode on...

[tim]

The cat's finally out of the bag eh? THANK GROD! I hope I never have to keep quite about new toys ever again, it was h3ll not being able to tell anyone! Like I said, it's like the 20D, but less cripped than the 300D was compared with the 10D. I'm still suprised though how close it is to the 20D - construction, frame buffer, and the wheel are the main advantages I can see. I'm still glad I got the 20D though.

Bye bye D70.

[FlipsidE]

Very nice lookin cam. I'm happy with my 6.3MP DReb right now, though. My next upgrade will probably be in the 20D range (or whatever is out to replace the 20D when the time comes).

FlipsidE

[KevC]

Still no FEC?

[CyberDyneSystems]

ROFLMAO!

Nikon's PMA offering :lol: :lol:

Nikon D2Hs Digital SLR | General
Nikon D2Hs introduction: Nikon Corporation is pleased to announce the introduction of a high-speed professional digital SLR camera with high-precision and improved operation for action photography: the Nikon D2Hs.

The Nikon D2Hs performs continuous shooting of 50 photos with 4.1 effective Megapixels at a speed of 8fps.

Bwahahahahahaha..... Still trying to beat the 4 year old 1D ??

It's sad really..
http://www.pma-show.com/review/nikon/001_D2Hs.html

[defordphoto]

Totally different sensor 8.0 vs. the 20D 8.2...Interesting. I didn't see anything re: build. Plastic frame? Mag frame?

[PacAce]

Mag alloy body, 9-point AF scheme, I think that the D-Reb retains the previous focus scheme. Possibly longer battery life. ISO 50 & 3200. O.2 extra megapixels (wow!!). Rear dial and Elan-type ergonomics.

Haven't really had any time to compare specs yet - but this baby looks pretty doggone good to me!

Also, 1/8000 sec on the 20D vs 1/4000 on the DRebXT. And possibly no or limited custom functions on the DRebXt.

BTW, the ISO advantage of the 20D is just the ISO 3200. 20D doesn't do ISO 50.

Did anybody gather whether the DRebXT does FEC or not?

[CyberDyneSystems]

I thought it did,. but I read it wrong,.. so no I don't know

[Raj]

Its has FEC "Flash compensation of ±2 stops in 1/3- or 1/2- stop increments is available"

[Tom W]

Also, 1/8000 sec on the 20D vs 1/4000 on the DRebXT. And possibly no or limited custom functions on the DRebXt.

BTW, the ISO advantage of the 20D is just the ISO 3200. 20D doesn't do ISO 50.

Did anybody gather whether the DRebXT does FEC or not?

Yes, the article stated that the new REb does +/- 2 stops of FEC. Plus mirror lockup IIRC.

[LouDawg]

This is really cool, looks like a good backup camera for my 20D.

[PacAce]

Oh, yeah. I read right over it. Had to increase text size 2 fold to see it right. :confused: (I really should use my reading glasses more often).

[CyberDyneSystems]

I had to do a damn search to find it again,.

Improved flash: The pop-up flash of the Canon EOS Rebel XT has a guide number of 13 and sits even higher (95.5mm) above the optical axis than on the Canon Rebel, helping suppress red eye effect and reducing the possibility of lens barrel shadow. Angle of coverage extends to support wide lenses to 17mm. Flash compensation of ±2 stops in 1/3- or 1/2- stop increments is available with both the built-in flash and with all EX-series Speedlite flash units.

[CyberDyneSystems]

I hear it's soft and backfocuses,.

But I still pre-ordered at B&H :lol: :lol:

[Johnny V]

Geez...Being a former Nikon user I feel really bad for Nikon. Where is the D100 replacement? I know the D70 was kinda but not really.

[Raj]

Lou, to me it looks pretty close to 20D, would you really call it a back up camera ?

CDS, what are you referring to in "I hear it's soft and backfocuses,. "
btw super mod is cool :-) :-)

[CoolToolGuy]

I hear it's soft and backfocuses,.

But I still pre-ordered at B&H :lol: :lol:

I heard the grip swings from the body like its got a hinge - But Dell has them back-ordered... :lol: :lol: :lol:

Have Fun,

[tim]

Mag alloy body, 9-point AF scheme, I think that the D-Reb retains the previous focus scheme. Possibly longer battery life. ISO 50 & 3200. O.2 extra megapixels (wow!!). Rear dial and Elan-type ergonomics.

Haven't really had any time to compare specs yet - but this baby looks pretty doggone good to me!


The 20D has ISO 50?

[triangle]

I hear it's soft and backfocuses,.

But I still pre-ordered at B&H :lol: :lol:


Can you tell us how much it runs for?

Anyone looking to buy a used DRebel? Just joking :lol:

I can't wait until Canon offers rebates on the 20D, then I know a new release is around the corner!:eek:

[Paul_O]

I think I'll be ordering one, I was going to order the 20D soon purely to replace my 300D and lack of AI servo and slow write times and startup times. The fact that it's slightly smaller and lighter than the existing model and any other upgrades are always a bonus. In Australia the price saving will be in the order of about AUD$1000 against the 20D, very cool.

Paul

And a black body to boot!!

[tim]

In Australia the price saving will be in the order of about AUD$1000 against the 20D, very cool.


I order most of my camera gear from bhphotovideo.com, cameras I buy locally thru a parallel importer. Most of the time buying in NZ costs a lot more, though it's sometimes worth it for the warranty they provide - my 20D was just replaced in 3 days, if i'd bought from the states it'd have taken a couple of weeks at least. Maybe you can find a parallel importer in aus?

[CyberDyneSystems]

CDS, what are you referring to in "I hear it's soft and backfocuses,. "


It's just a joke Raj :)

Watch this forum in about three months when the first of these hit the shelves at Best Buy and are in the hands of a first time DSL buyer,. there is allways some rumor of some "flaw" in the design,... no one ever belives that it's there fault or that they might have one bad camera out of hundreds of thousands,. it's allways a problem with the entire design! :lol: :lol:

[CyberDyneSystems]

It's just a joke Raj :)

Watch this forum in about three months when the first of these hit the shelves at Best Buy and are in the hands of a first time DSL buyer,. there is allways some rumor of some "flaw" in the design,... no one ever belives that it's there fault or that they might have one bad camera out of hundreds of thousands,. it's allways a problem with the entire design! :lol: :lol:


I understand it is supposed to sell for $899.00 US body only,. $999.00 with kit lens just the original Rebel on introduction.

And no B&H isn't taking pre-orders yet,. that too was a joke :)

Sorry ;)

[Hellashot]

Hmmmm, I wonder how many people will accidentally turn or off the camera when changing shooting modes. Not sure if I like that power button there. Interesting place for the LCD that displays the camera settings. That probably helped with the overall size.
Now if the price is less than the original 300, this is going to be more of a D70 killer than it appears to be now.
Still glad I got my 20D.

I've never accidentally turned of my Drebel when changing modes. This new rebel is just about the same configuration as the original.

[Geeeyejo]

The question is - aside from the metal body and a few extra bells/whistles - why go for the 20D? At $999 this should be an amazing value for the kit - Next question - How much does everyone think the Rebel 1's will be discounted to? Maybe time to pick up a little of last years technology...

[Mchu86]

Mann...I was gonna upgrade to the 20D...but it seems like the Rebel XT may just be what I want/need!

[Persian-Rice]

Wow, makes the 20D sound like a waste of money.................as long as its priced like a rebel.

[Raj]

The question is - aside from the metal body and a few extra bells/whistles - why go for the 20D? At $999 this should be an amazing value for the kit - Next question - How much does everyone think the Rebel 1's will be discounted to? Maybe time to pick up a little of last years technology...

More of a personal preference I guess based on what your photographic needs are + your taste. As you said why to go for 20D with extra $$ to get a metal body ... someone may say why to loose metal & whatever like iso 3200 for just ~400-500 $ ? after all you dont purchase or upgrade a body everyday.
So, as long as you are happy with any model & get decent pics out of it to please people, anything is fine :-) just go for it !

(sorry this is a very non technical answer :p )

[pradeep1]

I'll add my line to this annual historic post....yippeeee :) and black. :)

[ron chappel]

Don't be too hasty in thinking that the 18-55 mkII lens is an improvement! :):)
You just never know with consumer lenses!
I'm curious how (or if) the focus accuracy has been improved (like the 20D was over the 10D)

I better go do some reading:)

[JaertX]

I've been debating whether to go with a Elan 7NE or the 20D. I know it's kinda crazy to compare the two, especially with the $1100 price difference, but I'm a photography student using a camera my dad bought in the late '60s and I'll be going through a ton of film in the next two or three years.

A nice film camera would be a tremendous benefit, but I could always keep shooting with this old brick and have the new digi SLR for home and little side work. The only real difference between getting the 20D and the Elan, in my book, is a few months worth of saving up and the cost of the film for my personal use over the next few years. I'm a patient guy and I can certainly wait for a few months of saving up, but it looks like it might pay off to wait two or three years instead of a few months.

With Canon obviously trying to crush Nikon and the joke of an SLR attempt by Olympus, I think I'm pretty safe buying the Elan and stocking up on some nice L glass over the next few years. I'll wait for the $1500 60XD, full-frame 16 megapixel, 12 fps, capable of clean iso 25-12800, to come out sometime in the next three years. Of course, that's hoping Canon doesn't switch lens mounts again! EF mount has been out 11 years now, right? Getting pretty old there . . .

Anyway, sounds like a plan to me. And it looks like Canon might play along.

I absolutely love it that Canon has some gigantic brass danglers!

[Raj]

With Canon obviously trying to crush Nikon and the joke of an SLR attempt by Olympus, I think I'm pretty safe buying the Elan and stocking up on some nice L glass over the next few years. I'll wait for the $1500 60XD, full-frame 16 megapixel, 12 fps, capable of clean iso 25-12800, to come out sometime in the next three years. Of course, that's hoping Canon doesn't switch lens mounts again! EF mount has been out 11 years now, right? Getting pretty old there . . .

Anyway, sounds like a plan to me. And it looks like Canon might play along.

I absolutely love it that Canon has some gigantic brass danglers!

Thumbs UP :lol:

[roanjohn]

OH LORD!!!

Can't believe I missed all the hooopla!!! AGAIN!!!

When I read selectable metering, selectable focus, FEC and MLU, OH !!! and 0.2 sec start-up..........I made the decision to BUY IT!!! WOOOHOOO!!!! I'm so glad that I waited!!! ANd its physically smaller than the original Rebel (A BIG PLUS FOR HIKERS LIKE ME!!!) WOOOHOOOO!!!!

Thanks CANON!!! You always deliver!!!

I am happy happy happy!!!!

Now the feeding frenzy will begin!!! Will be on the lookout at the buy and sell for really dirt cheap Rebels and 10Ds!!!!

Oh.........and Nikon is getting hammered!!! I'm sure they have a D100 upgrade waiting to be unveiled.............IF NOT, a lot of Nikonese are gonna be UPSET!!! But they'll never admit it!!!!!

OH SH*T!!

Ro1

[roanjohn]

..............just to add, I wonder if the Canon forum will be split in two??? NEWBIE section and OLD TIMERS!!!!

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!!

:-)

.........okay, I thought it was funny!!!

Ro1

[Citizensmith]

Sure Nikon may have something in the pipeline. However, when Canon show off a new camera its ready to ship. New Nikon releases seem to spend 6months at least as vapourware.

Unfortunately the $900 cost doesn't include the cost of bribing my wife to persude her I need to buy one. After spending $350 on a decent flat screen. Hmm. Should probably just stick to the new 60mm Macro. :)

[CyberDyneSystems]

Didn't you see what Nikon introduced at PMA,.. a D2Hs with 4.1MP :lol: :lol:

It has better White Balance than the D2h! Oooooh,. Canon must be shaking in there shoes! woooo.

:mrgreen:

[johnbs]

Didn't you see what Nikon introduced at PMA,.. a D2Hs with 4.1MP :lol: :lol:

It has better White Balance than the D2h! Oooooh,. Canon must be shaking in there shoes! woooo.

:mrgreen:

Hmm, I'm excited by the new Rebel, but it is *not* good newsfor us if the competition gets weaker!

It's the D70 that has pushed Canon to make the new Rebel much less constrained. Otherwise, we would probably still have many of the limitations imposed on the original Rebel firmware.

John

[Mchu86]

Hmm, I'm excited by the new Rebel, but it is *not* good newsfor us if the competition gets weaker!

It's the D70 that has pushed Canon to make the new Rebel much less constrained. Otherwise, we would probably still have many of the limitations imposed on the original Rebel firmware.

John

Well said!

[Raj]

While we are talking about small differences between 20D & rebel xt like iso 3200... lets be hopeful may be some genious will figure out rebel xt hack to enable remaining 20D functions :twisted:

[kawter2]

Am i the only 20D owner reading this with mixed emotions!!


I am glad for the cause, but they have to be abandoning something when they come out with the 30D and my guess is the sensor size. These two (20D & XT) are too close to be in the two diferent markets.

[kawter2]

AND WHERE THE HECK IS AN EF (no S) 10MM (L or no L) Fish 2.8!!!!!



THe only thing my N***n buddies can brag about.. and i must give them the fact that it is a dang nice lens


CANON 1.6 shoooters like real EF wide angles tooo (not just EF-S es)

[FlyingPete]

Am i the only 20D owner reading this with mixed emotions!!


I am glad for the cause, but they have to be abandoning something when they come out with the 30D and my guess is the sensor size. These two (20D & XT) are too close to be in the two diferent markets.

Hmmm from the reading I have done, it seems the only thing I would miss on this new beastiw would be the large frame buffer, I am still scatching my head trying to see what there is to justify the extra $$$ for the 20D.

Are we sure they have differnet sensors, seems a little wierd to me, all that R&D unless the 8MP is more inferior to the 8.2MP by more than 0.2MP?

[tim]

The sensors are probably the same - 8.2M actual pixels, 8.0M used.

[Mogwyth]

It seems they have addressed virtualy every complaint about the original even the problem of being able to manual focus::D

"while a new Presicion Matte screen gives a brighter viewfinder image for easier, mor accurate manual focus."

Have they missed anything?

[michael.luczkow]

The sensors are probably the same - 8.2M actual pixels, 8.0M used.
off the top of my head the 20D is 8.5 actual and 8.2 used

[slejhamer]

Minor nit: still no pc jack for attaching studio strobes... but I suppose we all use pocket wizards anyway. :D

[VesselinG]

just when i was convinced that i will buy a 300d, even if it was a bit expensive to buy it from a store, i am now pretty sure that i'll order 350d... man, am i excited !

[Fills]

To help ease some of us who already bought the 20D :D

20D
5fps
23 frame burst
ISO3200
1/8000 Shutter Speed
Met Alloy Body
9 point AF
0.2 MP - no big deal
Ergonomics ? (I prefer the wheel, the additional top display etc.)

350D
3fps
14 frame burst
ISO1600
1/4000
Body?
7 point AF

I guess it will come down to price... how much more is this stuff worth to you? Also, when all is said and done, we really need to take a look at quality of the pictures too. I would assume very similar. I might have bought the 350D but on the other hand would I get as much for my 300D when the 350D is out, as opposed to 2 weeks ago when I sold it. Or was I supposed to wait with no Camera till it hits the shelf....

[pierrot]

Does it feature the ISO setting display somewhere?

[Fills]

Oh and regarding the kit lens, I see this over at dpreview:

Phil: Note that Canon has subtly updated the Kit lens, but it's only cosmetic modifications, the actual glass / lens design is identical (still no USM here, although there was a USM lens on black kits in Europe and standard in Japan).

[PacAce]

Seems like deja vu, doesn't it? it was just over a year ago the same type of discussion/questions came up re the 10D and the DRebel. I guess it's like the seasons. They keep coming back. :mrgreen: :lol:

[Cadwell]

For me, the big test for Canon this time is to actually be able to get these things to the market place in adequate numbers. I am particularly thinking of Canon UK, here, who's past record has been dismal.

[S230]

From reading all these post and info, I personally don't see a real "Big" difference between the 300D and the 350D. As for as best bang for the buck, the 300D is probably still better especially with the HACK. Rather spend the money on a better lens. My next upgrade would probably still be the 20D since it's still better.

[roanjohn]

I just love how its SOO SMALL!!!

Look at it with the 18-55 attached..........the lens looks HUGE!!! And that lens is not that big in real life!!!

IF you attach the 17-40 with the hood in front of this baby........you won't even see the camera!!!

Ro1

[CoolToolGuy]

Seems like deja vu, doesn't it? it was just over a year ago the same type of discussion/questions came up re the 10D and the DRebel. I guess it's like the seasons. They keep coming back. :mrgreen: :lol:

This may actually be a marketing strategy - The 1D MkII introduced some new things (DIGIC II, ETTL II, fast writing) that flowed down to the prosumer 20D, and now those things have flowed down to the consumer DSLR (the DreXT?). Canon advances the technology all the way down the line, and now the 20D folks are wondering what's next for them. Not much difference from the 10D/Drebel situation except the hack isn't out yet.

Hmmm - DreXT - I'm kinda liking the nickname! :)

Have Fun,

[Chris P Bacon]

it looks tiny on that guys hand, I wonder how it will balance with a big lens like the 100-400mm on it

[Europa]

If I had not already upgraded to a 20D I might have bought this.

[wibbly]

Me too, but there are more 20D vs 350 insights here

http://www.steves-digicams.com/pr/canon_02172005_rebelxt_pr.html

Adding to the list above

“As tempting as it is to compare the EOS Digital Rebel XT digital camera with the more advanced EOS 20D model based on their technological kinship, there are, of course, some very real differences between them. While the 20D SLR includes performance features such as faster continuous shooting speed (five frames-per-second (fps) vs. three fps) with larger burst capability (23 frames vs. 14) and custom function settings (18 vs. 9) that more than justify its heftier price tag..."

and

"...two cameras’ most striking technological similarities are their use of Canon’s newly-developed, large single plate, high sensitivity, high resolution color CMOS imaging sensor technology. While the size of the APS-C CMOS sensor on the EOS Digital Rebel XT SLR is fractionally smaller than the APS-C CMOS sensor on the EOS 20D camera (22.2 x 14.8 mm versus 22.5 x15.0 mm respectively) accounting in part for the cameras 8.0 vs. 8.2 megapixel resolution rating, individual pixel dimensions are identical, and they both provide the same effective angle of view, equivalent to 1.6 x the normal EF lens focal length"

I also noticed the 350 lacks

- joystick control
- main rotating control (on back)

John

[Jesper]

The sensors are probably the same - 8.2M actual pixels, 8.0M used.
According to the press release, the 350D's new 8.0 MP sensor is NOT the same as the 20D's 8.2 MP sensor!
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0502/05021704canon_eos350d.asp

Which is strange.... why develop two different 8.x MP sensors?

The one thing I don't like about the 350D is that it also doesn't use BP-511(A) battery packs, but a completely new type: NB-2LH. Why is that? Not nice for people who want to upgrade and use their BP-511's.

[Edgar in ATL]

The apparently intentional objective of smaller size and smaller weight of the body is curious given the things out front keep getting bigger and heavier. At what point do they abandon the tripod screw mount on the camera and put the hand strap loops on the lens?

[Doug Rowan]

I'm coming back boys!!!! The giant killer has been released!

Hmmm...Camera Body $899
28-135 USM, IS Lens $409
Total......................$1308

Heck...I can even get the kit lens too & it's still cheaper than the 7D body!

[Jon]

Interesting that they're apparently going to keep the original DR on the books at $799 MSRP with kit lens (posted at Steve's). Gonna be a few unhappy camera companies out there if they do . . .

[Bodog]

AND WHERE THE HECK IS AN EF (no S) 10MM (L or no L) Fish 2.8!!!!!

I believe you're going to see one in the next few days, but it will be EF-S and not a fish! Sorry :lol:

[wibbly]

More here

http://www.eos-magazine.com/EOS%20system/Digital%20cameras/EOS%20350D/350D_report.html

[CyberDyneSystems]

The different sensor is an improved one and mosrt likely a less costly one to make Vs. the 20D....

This Rebel may have even beter ISO noise handling.. (maybe) we'll see.

[aam1234]

The Nikon guys are so mad at their cam company now. From what they said, it seems this entry level DSLR from Canon is better than the whole Nikon DSLR lineup, except one model (don't know anything about Nikon cams, so not sure if it's true or not).

[Flagpole]

G'day!

Some sample images on Canon Japanese site

http://web.canon.jp/Imaging/eosdigital2/#04

Regards,

Flagpole
Sydney, Australia

[Persian-Rice]

The different sensor is an improved one and mosrt likely a less costly one to make Vs. the 20D....

This Rebel may have even beter ISO noise handling.. (maybe) we'll see.

This is what I am thinking. Same noise proccessing as the 20D but larger photosites? this could eliminate almost all noise 100 through 1600.

[zebedeu]

Wow, everyone's eyeing my new camera :D
I'm surprised no one noticed this, though (from <a href="http://www.dpreview.com/news/0502/05021704canon_eos350d.asp">dpreview</a>):
List Price (Body Only)
US: $899
Europe: €899
List Price (Kit inc. lens)
US: $999
Europe: €1099

Which basically makes the kit lens €200 in europe, more than double the price in the US.

[kb244]

Hrm , uses the battery from the smaller S series, that sucks, means people with 10Ds DRebels, 30D, 60D etc all have to change out their batteries or power accessories to upgrade ( tho upgrading from a 10D to Drebel.... doesnt sound quite right but it seems to have everything now ).

But using a 720mAh battery instead of the usual 1100mAh wish they'd keep the same battery they've been using. I think canon is trying to strictly define it's entry level's accessories.

[Longwatcher]

The Nikon guys are so mad at their cam company now. From what they said, it seems this entry level DSLR from Canon is better than the whole Nikon DSLR lineup, except one model (don't know anything about Nikon cams, so not sure if it's true or not).

I am leaning towards, that given the price of the 350D and its capabilities, only the D2X is any competition. And that one is trying to compete with 1DmkII. Which it does barely.

I am hoping that Nikon is invested in other areas. They are losing it.
Kodak and Sony are the most likely in the long term to compete with Canon the way Nikon is going.

[aam1234]

I think the developments of the last few months (20D and now 350D/XT) and the (almost) fact that Nikon can't compete with Canon in this segment is creating an opportunity for other DSLR manufacturers to grab a share of the DSLR market. These companies need to have deeper pockets to spend on R&D though. Maybe Sony and Kodak as Longwatcher suggested.

[pradipkar]

Any idea, how much will it cost ? I mean street price of XT ?

[Jon]

List for the first month or more, from the people who sell you the full package. I have no doubt the usual suspects will offer it for $49.95 + battery, strap, manual, software, and box (all of which are compulsory) and USPS shipping at $250. After the initial rush has gone down, it'll probably drop between 5 and 7 % among the reputable volume dealers.

[swatcop169]

20D over 350D/XT:

5 vs. 3 fps

9 pt AF with high-accuracy center cross sensor when used with F2.8 or faster lenses vs. 7 pt AF and no high-accuracy sensor
6 frame RAW vs 5 (or 4 when shooting RAW + JPEG)
21-23 (depending on spec you read) JPEG buffering vs 14
1/8000s max shutter vs 1/4000s
1/250s flash synch vs. 1/200s
8.2 Mpixel sensor vs. 8.0
ISO 3200 max vs ISO 1600
Magnesium body vs. polycarbonate (with steel subframe?)
118,000 pixel LCD vs. 115,000
Slightly higher viewfinder mag
More custom functions
Larger capacity BP-511a battery vs. NB-2LH (half the capacity)
Command dial and joystick on back vs. compass-button pad
Secondary LCD on top vs. back
No auto-pop-up flash vs. auto pop-up
Selectable embedded JPEG with RAW vs. one fixed siz

[pradipkar]

Any idea how will it compare to Olympus Evolt ? apart from similar price & megapixel ? I mean
from image quality, ease of use and overall value point of view. EVOLT has metal casing , however this has plastic ...(making it bit lighter)

[PacAce]

I am leaning towards, that given the price of the 350D and its capabilities, only the D2X is any competition. And that one is trying to compete with 1DmkII. Which it does barely.

I am hoping that Nikon is invested in other areas. They are losing it.
Kodak and Sony are the most likely in the long term to compete with Canon the way Nikon is going.
Well, I did buy a Nikon binocular for birding not too long ago so that little income should keep them afloat for a short while, maybe. :mrgreen: :lol:

[Jonny]

Does anyone else think that big chunky dial ruins what would we be a good looking cam? That would put me off staright away.

[lost]

I have a 300d and the dial on the 350d looks more functional. I find it a pain sometimes with the rounded dial to change modes.


The dial is also for fashion conscious consumers, it has that retro look.

[FlyingPete]

20D over 350D/XT:

5 vs. 3 fps

9 pt AF with high-accuracy center cross sensor when used with F2.8 or faster lenses vs. 7 pt AF and no high-accuracy sensor
6 frame RAW vs 5 (or 4 when shooting RAW + JPEG)
21-23 (depending on spec you read) JPEG buffering vs 14
1/8000s max shutter vs 1/4000s
1/250s flash synch vs. 1/200s
8.2 Mpixel sensor vs. 8.0
ISO 3200 max vs ISO 1600
Magnesium body vs. polycarbonate (with steel subframe?)
118,000 pixel LCD vs. 115,000
Slightly higher viewfinder mag
More custom functions
Larger capacity BP-511a battery vs. NB-2LH (half the capacity)
Command dial and joystick on back vs. compass-button pad
Secondary LCD on top vs. back
No auto-pop-up flash vs. auto pop-up
Selectable embedded JPEG with RAW vs. one fixed siz

Pentaprism or Pentamirror?
Little dots that light up on focus (300D), or squares (10D/20D)?

Just two more potential points of difference.

After more research, I am still feeling happy with my 20D!

[KenE]

Does anyone else like the LCD on the back? Seems like an innovative way to keep your head in the same relative area. Might even work better below the big screen.

Don't get me wrong, I really appreciate the controlability of my two-week old 20D, and I'd buy it all over again knowing what I know two weeks later. The rear wheel and joystick is great for making changes on the fly. I like and appreciate all the other features it has over the new machine.

Also like that my old G1 batteries work fine in the 20D. http://www.photography-on-the.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif

[CoolToolGuy]

The folks on the Ni*on-mount forum over at FM are really pi$$ed and full of sour grapes - I think they realize the announcement of the DreXT leaves them in the dust.

I do hope Ni*on responds with something soon to keep Canon honest.

Have Fun,

[Chazs]

The one thing I don't like about the 350D is that it also doesn't use BP-511(A) battery packs, but a completely new type: NB-2LH. Why is that? Not nice for people who want to upgrade and use their BP-511's.

Hmmm. This is the same battery that my 3-year old Canon S40 takes. The body must have been substantially downsized to only accomodate that size of battery.

After having the 300D for almost a year, I think the 20D is still in my immediate future. Some of the buttons, menus, and overall feel of the 300D are a little lacking; good, but not great. Keeping the same form factor, albeit, scaled down, and increasing software features on the new XT hasn't tipped me away from wanting a 20D.......yet. As more news comes out - - who knows. Looks like I need to sell my 300D and sit tight without a camera for a month. :(

[Mchu86]

Canon Digital Rebel: 142 x 99 x 72 mm (5.6 x 3.9 x 2.8 in)
Canon Digital Rebel XT: 126.5 x 94.2 x 64mm (5.0 x 3.7 x 2.5in)

Well, not as small as I imagined...the camera seems to be mainly narrower...

[Jesper]

Any idea how will it compare to Olympus Evolt ? apart from similar price & megapixel ? I mean
from image quality, ease of use and overall value point of view. EVOLT has metal casing , however this has plastic ...(making it bit lighter)
It's too early to say how the image quality of the 350D will measure up against other cameras. Keep an eye on http://www.dpreview.com - they will most likely post a (pre-)review sometime in the coming weeks.

But we can make some assumptions: since Canon already did an excellent job with the 20D (an APS-C sized 8.2 MP sensor with so little noise), I think it's safe to assume that the 350D will be just as good as the 20D. (Note that the 350D's 8.0 MP sensor is not exactly the same one as in the 20D).

I just looked up the specs of the Olympus Evolt (E-300) (http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/specs/Olympus/oly_e300.asp). It also has an 8 MP sensor, but it is significantly smaller than the sensor of the Canon EOS 350D. That means the Olympus will almost certainly have more noise than the 350D (smaller sensor = smaller pixels = more noise).

[FlyingPete]

The folks on the Ni*on-mount forum over at FM are really pi$$ed and full of sour grapes - I think they realize the announcement of the DreXT leaves them in the dust.

Yep just had a quick read of that thread, not a happy bunch of campers over there!

Quotes like:

So why don't you just go buy a Canon if you are so unhappy with Nikon and post over on the Canon forum. What is this a pissing contest?

and

I was about to buy some new expensive lenses. I am holding off. I am not going to invest in a dead end... I would hate to move back to the dark side.. But I might have to..
I hope Nikon come up with something soon... Not that I will change, but to let me know they are in the game and actually care.

plus

If I'm considering the purchase of a $5000 lens I need to feel comfortable making a major financial and time commitment to whatever company's bodies that lens will be used on.

and I love this one:

Nikon f**ked up....can we drop it?

[pradeep1]

I've been debating whether to go with a Elan 7NE or the 20D. I know it's kinda crazy to compare the two, especially with the $1100 price difference, but I'm a photography student using a camera my dad bought in the late '60s and I'll be going through a ton of film in the next two or three years.

That $1100 difference will account for about 110 rolls of 24 exposure film if you factor in film, processing, and your time. 2,640 film exposures and you'll have made up that cost advantage. If you are student, I am sure you can go through that many photos in a month if you are seriously trying to perfect your craft, especially if you are using a digital camera.

So why go with the Elan 7NE? ;)

[pradeep1]

..............just to add, I wonder if the Canon forum will be split in two??? NEWBIE section and OLD TIMERS!!!!

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!!

:-)

.........okay, I thought it was funny!!!

Ro1

Calm down MAN! :p Get a grip of yourself!

[pradeep1]

Hmm, I'm excited by the new Rebel, but it is *not* good newsfor us if the competition gets weaker!

It's the D70 that has pushed Canon to make the new Rebel much less constrained. Otherwise, we would probably still have many of the limitations imposed on the original Rebel firmware.

John

You always want to have a competitor who is like a little pugnacious dog who tries to hump your leg whenever you get close. But you never want that little dog to become top dog. ;)

[pradeep1]

The sensors are probably the same - 8.2M actual pixels, 8.0M used.

According to their press release the sensors are new....but they use the same technology as introduced in the 20D. So expect a ISO 3200 hack soon. ;)

[lost]

I wouldn't be suprised that the WHOLE reason the sensor is different is to prevent the hacks that affected the 300d.

Canon probably changed a few other thing to prevent this as well.

[Mchu86]

According to their press release the sensors are new....but they use the same technology as introduced in the 20D. So expect a ISO 3200 hack soon. ;)

I hope so :D

[tim]

Does anyone else like the LCD on the back? Seems like an innovative way to keep your head in the same relative area. Might even work better below the big screen.


I like the LCD on the back too, it means you don't have to rotate the camera or move your head to see what's on it.

[Tom W]

I've got one on the back .... and on the top. :)

[Duder]

Why would anyone with a 20D be concerned about this? The 350D is a quality, but inferior camera. No-one's gonna trade in their 20D for a 350D, so why all the searching comparisons?

[PacAce]

I wouldn't be suprised that the WHOLE reason the sensor is different is to prevent the hacks that affected the 300d.

Canon probably changed a few other thing to prevent this as well.
The 10D and the DRebel had completely different CMOS sensors but that didn't prevent the hacking of the firmware on the DRebel, so I doubt that was the reason for the different sensors between the 20D and the XT. I'm just guessing but economics might have more to do with it, just like it did with the DRebel sensor.

[lost]

My mistake I was told the DRebel and 10D have the same sensor.

Edit for Grammer:

But I say again, I would put money on Canon making the hacks impossible.

[Mchu86]

Why would anyone with a 20D be concerned about this? The 350D is a quality, but inferior camera. No-one's gonna trade in their 20D for a 350D, so why all the searching comparisons?

Well, I guess they're only concerned because the Rebel XT offers almost the same functions as the 20D for a fraction of the cost. 20D owners, though unlikely, COULD sell their 20D for a Rebel XT, and use the money made for some glass.

On the other hand, for us Rebel users, we'd like to know comparisons so we could educate ourselves for a future purchase. Either a $1499 body which is very nice or a $899 body with almost the same features as the $1499 body minus some goodies. :D

[PacAce]

My mistake I was told the DRebel and 10D have the same sensor.

Edit for Grammer:

But I say again, I would put money on Canon making the hacks impossible.
I wouldn't stake your life on it if I were you. Firmware is nothing but a program that's flashed into the flash memory in the camera. Anybody (knowledgeable, that is) can get a firmware code, alter it to do whatever they want, and then load it into a camera and voila, a hacked camera. :)

[Fills]

Why would anyone with a 20D be concerned about this? The 350D is a quality, but inferior camera. No-one's gonna trade in their 20D for a 350D, so why all the searching comparisons?

Because it's a $800 (CND) difference. :o Most people who upgraded from the 300D to the 20D was because of the slow transfer speed, low buffer, high ISO noise (debatable), AI Servo, maybe even the additional 2MP, and this new Rebel addresses all of these issues. So we are "searching comparisons" so we can determine if we have something that will justify the additional cost or if we were a victim of bad timing. :( That being said, I feel like it was justified for reasons listed previous, but if we didn't search we wouldn't know. :cool:

[timmyquest]

I kind of doubt that the 20D will be replaced by the 350.

Lets look at it logically here.

7pt AF system vs the 9 in the 20D.
no custom functions
no ISO 3200
no metal body
no 5fps

the 350 is a great camera, but it's no 20D, just as the 20D is a great camera...but it's no 1DmkII.

[rssfhs]

Anyone out there wanna buy my 300D?

[Mogwyth]

Anyone out there wanna buy my 300D?

What when you can get a new one with kit lens and 3 yr warranty on Ebay for £400, £480 including Import tax if you are unlucky:lol::lol:

[CoolToolGuy]

Here's the press release for the DreXT from Canon USA:

http://www.usa.canon.com/templatedata/pressrelease/20050217_rxt.html

Interesting, it says the original Drebel will remain available with the kit lens for $799 USD.
.
.
.
This is a general press release with several products to be introduced at PMA:

http://www.usa.canon.com/templatedata/pressrelease/20050217_overview.html
.
.
.
Here's the release on the EF-S 60mm Macro (street price $449 USD):

http://www.usa.canon.com/templatedata/pressrelease/20050217_efs60.html
.
.
.
So now Canon will have a DSLR kit at $800 as well as one at $1000. Sounds like a plan to gain market share and get new folks into the fold. Some may say how much better the D70 is than the Drebel, but a low price talks.

Have Fun,

[roanjohn]

450 USD for an EFS lens??!!!?? NO THANKS!!!

Ro1

[CoolToolGuy]

450 USD for an EFS lens??!!!?? NO THANKS!!!

Ro1

They're no dummies - its about the same price as the EF 50mm Macro with the lifesize converter or the EF 100mm Macro, and you get 1:1 all in one unit.

This EF-S is a metal mount, not the plastic one in the kit lens.

Sounds promising to me...

Have Fun,

[tim]

Why would you want the 60mm unit when you could have the 100mm for about the same price?

[Avalonthas]

Hmmm maybe this is an incentive for me to buy the 350D and pass on my 300D to my son. However I am so tempted to buy a 300D once its price drops, as a 3rd body would be killer, but i want that bigger MP value. Yay!!!!