Rebel XT vs. 10D - similar??

[roanjohn]

It seems that everything about this camera is similar to the 10D. Aside from the build, about the only difference is the start-up time and the added megapixels.

SO the question:

IS the XT an upgrade OR a downgrade from the 10D??

Would like to hear your opinions.

Ro1

[rfreschner]

IS the XT an upgrade OR a downgrade from the 10D??

My first impression is that it looks like a downgrade from the 20D, but I don't have much experience with the 10D.

Rick

[Olegis]

From what I've seen, the new Rebel doesn't have ISO 3200 and custom functions, while the 10D does have them. Also, the EF-S mount is quite different from the EF one ;)

[roanjohn]

Rebel XT have 9 custom functions...........as opposed to 20 (I guess) on the 10D.

And it doesn't have ISO 3200...........but how useable is ISO 3200 in the 10D??

Ro1

[Olegis]

It's useable when you need one. The following pictures were shot at ISO 3200 :

http://www.pbase.com/olegis/image/30928796
http://www.pbase.com/olegis/image/30928797

The noise does show on bigger pictures - but considering the ASA 3200 film grain, I would say that the noise is minimal with 10D :)

[rsnadel]

Biggest difference, I suspect, is the 8MP (using 2 year newer technology) in the Rebel XT vs the 6MP of the 10D.

[kb244]

Also keep in mind, the new Rebel XT is alot less noisy than the Rebel/10D , much like the 20D. It also has a larger buffer than the 10D, tiny bit better focusing, and so on.

[roanjohn]

WOW!!! Oleg - those shots are pretty AMAZING!!! I guess that's one point down for the XT. For my use though, I hardly go anywhere past 1600..........

Rsnadel - the extra 2 mp doesn't really make that much difference.........I think 4 mp is enough for my shooting purposes. However, a plus for the XT will be the lower noise.

Ro1

[Olegis]

Rebel XT have 9 custom functions...........as opposed to 20 (I guess) on the 10D.

Sorry, I didn't notice that.


Also keep in mind, the new Rebel XT is alot less noisy than the Rebel/10D , much like the 20D.

A lot ? The 20D is better than the 10D in this regard, but not a lot better. At least not in real-world photography.

[gcogger]

Also keep in mind, the new Rebel XT is alot less noisy than the Rebel/10D , much like the 20D. It also has a larger buffer than the 10D, tiny bit better focusing, and so on.
How do you know it's a lot less noisy? Has someone been testing one already?

[roanjohn]

Sample images are up in Phil's site............however, no shots in high ISO..BOO!!

I would like to make a chart with the pros and cons between the 10D and Rebel XT.. and maybe Nikon D70.

Ro1

[Jesper]

I have a 10D.

In my opinion, the 350D is better than the 10D: 8 MP vs. 6 MP, fast startup time like the 20D, and the 350D has most of the functions that were "crippled" in the 300D: FEC, freely selectable metering mode, mirror lock-up, and at 3 fps it's as fast as the 10D. I don't regard ISO 3200 as a big deal. I never use ISO 3200 on my 10D anyway, because it's just too noisy.

Now the 10D is really obsolete!

However, I'm not going to buy a 350D or 20D. I'm going to use my 10D and wait for the next generation of Canon DSLRs.

[kb244]

How do you know it's a lot less noisy? Has someone been testing one already?

Same 8 megapixel sensor as the 20D, so taking the level of noise from a 20D is about what you can expect on the new rebel. Prety much like when they made the rebel after the 10D, the RebelXT is modeled after the 20D. Main thing 20D has over it is a few custom features, slight body difference, and 5 frames per second as opposed to 3.

[kb244]

Hey Jesper, least it'll make sure you stick with the universal EF mount rather than being tempted by the newer EF-S lens, and ruining your chance of going back film, or steping up higher in the Canon EOS line that dont have 1.6x crop factors.

[roanjohn]

The 20D still has a much superior AF between the 10D and XT......however, the XT has a slight advantage over the 10D (Don't really know how noticeable in real life). When I had the 20D, you really notice the difference in AF (especially in low light etc..)

The 10D as a whole is just very sluggish camera. Browsing through pics, waiting for start-up etc.......its not as snappy as the 20D. And thats one thing I miss the most about the 20, its just FAST!!! I hope the Digic II in the XT will boost its performance over the 10D. A FAST camera is very important for me.

The other downside of the XT is the battery. It's not as powerful as those BP-511 - and I have a few of them. OTOH, the size is a nice trade-off.........so this is even for me.

...........I still don't know why Canon introduced it in Silver..........I can just see the balck being sold-out while a thousand silver bodies are sitting on the shelves.

Ro1

[kb244]

Battery is different on the XT?

[Persian-Rice]

The 10D still has more features.........but the rebel is more like the 20D. Considering they are about the same price.... I would say the rebel is probably the better choice.

[jobber73]

Sample images are up in Phil's site............however, no shots in high ISO..BOO!!

Anyone kind enough to point me in the right direction? :o

[Nightcrawler]

I would also like to make a note that the viewfinder is different on the 20D to the 350D.

(from dpreview.com)

20D:
• Eye-level pentaprism
• 95% frame coverage
• Magnification: 0.9x (-1 diopter with 50 mm lens at infinity) *
• Eyepoint: 20 mm
• Dioptric adjustment: -3.0 to +1.0 diopter
• Precision matte screen

350D:
• Pentamirror
• 95% frame coverage
• Magnification: 0.8x (-1 diopter with 50 mm lens at infinity) *
• Eyepoint: 21 mm *
• Dioptric adjustment: -3.0 to +1.0 diopter
• Fixed laser matte screen

[HJMinard]

Anyone kind enough to point me in the right direction? :o

Sample images can be found here (http://www.canon.co.jp/Imaging/eosdigital2/eosdigital2_sample-e.html).

[gcogger]

Same 8 megapixel sensor as the 20D, so taking the level of noise from a 20D is about what you can expect on the new rebel. Prety much like when they made the rebel after the 10D, the RebelXT is modeled after the 20D. Main thing 20D has over it is a few custom features, slight body difference, and 5 frames per second as opposed to 3.
From what people are saying on the 'official XT thread' the sensor has slightly fewer pixels than the one on the 20D, suggesting it's not the same one. Now that sounds more than a little odd to me, so I guess we'll have to wait and see.

[roanjohn]

The sensor is smaller on the XT.............physically. I wonder if that affects the CRAP factor!!! :-)...............1.7 X anyone??!!! (Not another debate!!!).

Ro1

[HJMinard]

No, actually they're the same (APS-C) size sensors and 1.6 factor. It simply has less pixels (8.0 vs. 8.2).

[Jon]

One of the sites, I don't t recall if it was a direct quote from Canon, said it was slightly smaller, but still 1.6x cra^hop.

[René Damkot]

One more (quite important) diffirence: The 10D and 20D have a second command dail on the back, where the Drebel as 4 buttons.... Would be enough reason for me to go for the 10D or 20D....

[CyberDyneSystems]

As to Noise,. the 20D is less noisy than the 10D but NOT a LOT... it has what I would call a slight advantage. The 10D remains a very good option where noise is concerned.

As to overall,.. based on specs,. I'd rather have a new Rebel XT than a 10D,.. it's just plain simple improvements. These cameras keep getting better.

Control layout could be an issue,. especially if you are used to one set up. This might be enough for me to not adopt a unit like the XT.. it's enough to have to switch from "1" series layout to the 20D... adding in even more differences would be a bit of an issue to some. But for the one camera crowd,.. the real market for this camera,. this may not be an issue at all.

I leant my 20D to a 300D owner for a day once (we were shooting together) and he spent the whole day asking how to adjust ISO , aperture etc... as to him the 20D was unfamiliar. Even after significant time using it,. he insists the Rebel is easier to use the cotrol layout. So it's more a matter of what your used to.

Sensor Size:
Again,. Canon is saying this camera has a NEW 8MP sensor,.. diffeerent from the 20D sensor. The sensor area is the same,. it's effective MP is slightly smaller (.2MP) I would suspect that the CMOS "package" may be smaller somewhat (not the surface area) and obviously again,. with improvements and cost savings in manufacturing,. I'm sure it is easier cheaper to make than either the 1D MkII sensor or even the 20D sensor.

If it was NOT cheaper to make than the 20D sensor,. Canon would no have made a different sensor.

This goes back to the 10D Vs. Drebel,. where the sensor suface area and chip contruction were in that case identical,. but the packaged CMOS was differnet and physically smaller on the DRebel. And most likely cheaper to make as well.

[BigRed450]

Why are we comparing a New Model (XT) to a 2-2.5 year old model (10D).
I certainly wouldn't sell my 10D and purchase XT or 20D, there is just not that much difference. However, the 1DMkII is a true upgrade. With that being said for the new up and comers, what a glorious time to get into digital with all these awesome new cameras... Comparing a Rebel/XT to a 10D/20D is like comparing a 10D/20D to a 1DMkII/1DsMkII The features and design go much deeper then what you see from the outside..

PS I have compared 20D and 10D images at 3200 ISO and found that although initially the 20D images look cleaner it is also evident that it has a stronger AA filter so the images are also softer then the 10D. Slightly sharpening the 20D images will give the same look as the 10D. Still, all in all they are VERY useable images, unlike 3200ISO film.

[Jesper]

Hey Jesper, least it'll make sure you stick with the universal EF mount rather than being tempted by the newer EF-S lens, and ruining your chance of going back film, or steping up higher in the Canon EOS line that dont have 1.6x crop factors.
Well, EF-S is getting more and more interesting, the EF-S 10-22 and 17-85 IS already look like nice lenses (the first one because it's a high quality true wide angle lens, and the second one because it has a very nice versatile zoom range and IS), and now the new EF-S 60 f/2.8 Macro (http://www.dpreview.com/news/0502/05021703canon_efs60mmmacro.asp) is also very interesting - very small, 1:1, USM, and it would also be a really nice portrait lens on an 1.6x crop factor camera. :)

But I have 5 lenses now which cover 99% of what I want to do, so I'm not looking to buy new lenses in the near future.

[roanjohn]

I know I'm gonna get flamed but I actually like the layout of the Rebel better than the 10D/20D ........... WHY??

1. I like the fact that the INFO panel is right on top of the LCD......I think its more intuitive.......and I can see my settings right away before I put my eye on the viewfinder.

2. I like that the ISO, WB have thier own dedicated buttons (and with the XT, FEC and Metering). So I just press and adjust with the wheel.

Aside from that, the jog wheel on the 10D/20D is very nice.......something I would sorely miss. However, the four way arrows on the Rebel is not that bad.

Ro1

[Medic1]

Heres a question...who likes the look of which badge? I personally think the 350D badge looks a little more professional than the eye catching red of the rebel badge


Rebel Badge
http://www.pma-show.com/review/canon/001_EOS_digital_rebel_xt.html

350D Badge
http://www.canon.co.jp/Imaging/eosdigital2/

Not overly important, but just curious

[4walls]

Seems to me that Canon is just adding 2MP's to sway anyone who plays by the MP game
away from the D70 over to the Rebel.

Rebel... still no rear-curtain sync on the flash, and max x-sync still too slow for fill flash

But it is a marketing game, and my guess is that it was a good move on Canon's part.

[PacAce]

...Rebel... still no rear-curtain sync on the flash, and max x-sync still too slow for fill flash

But the DRebel XT does have 2nd curtain sync.
And I'm not sure what you mean by "max x-sync still too slow for fill flash".

[roanjohn]

Seems to me that Canon is just adding 2MP's to sway anyone who plays by the MP game
away from the D70 over to the Rebel.

Rebel... still no rear-curtain sync on the flash, and max x-sync still too slow for fill flash

But it is a marketing game, and my guess is that it was a good move on Canon's part.

x-sync is similar to 10D.........so is top shutter speed.

.........not too sure about 2nd curtain sync...........I hope the XT have it on the custom functions.

Ro1

[4walls]

x-sync is similar to 10D.........so is top shutter speed.

.........not too sure about 2nd curtain sync...........I hope the XT have it on the custom functions.

Ro1
RE: 2nd curtain sync... I didn't see that in the specs. I will look again.
Ha, you are right... DPReview has just posted a short review...

Flash shutter curtain sync (1st or 2nd)

RE: max x-sync
Sync speed is the fastest shutter speed you can use with flash, period. 1/250 is not what we want and 1/125 is out of the question. 1/500 to 1/1,000 is where we want to be able to shoot since most pros use fill flash even in direct sunlight.

Special "High Speed" and "FP" modes don't count. Top (unsynced) speeds are also irrelevant; no one ever shoots above 1/2,000; pros just shoot slower film for better color when we get that much light.

The need for speed is obvious to action shooters. Less obvious is that fast sync speeds enable more efficient use of flash power and are often required for successful fill flash use in direct sunlight. Ever wonder why you see a flash mounted on every pro's camera in broad daylight? It's because fill flash improves most daylight photos and a fast sync speed is usually required to balance successfully with direct sunlight.

Slower sync speeds of 1/250 and slower often cause the flash to run out of power or range or recycle too slowly in broad daylight.
Read more here... (http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/syncspeed.htm)


Looks like Canon has ALMOST caught up to the D70! :D

[roanjohn]

Take into consideration that Nikon stops at ISO 200........so technically, thier top sync speed compared to the Canon should be only 1/250. Not that big of a difference IMHO.

Oh, shoot!!! You quoted Ken Rockwell!!! :rolleyes:

[4walls]

Take into consideration that Nikon stops at ISO 200........so technically, thier top sync speed compared to the Canon should be only 1/250. Not that big of a difference IMHO.

The D70 gives such great results at ISO 200 there is no need for the older, slower speeds
like ISO 100. The camera has 1/8000 top shutter speed. ISO 100 is meaningless, look at
noise samples from any reviews on the two cameras(Canon ISO 100 and Nikon ISO 200)...
too close to call.

[bertelm]

The D70 gives such great results at ISO 200 there is no need for the older, slower speeds
like ISO 100. The camera has 1/8000 top shutter speed. ISO 100 is meaningless, look at
noise samples from any reviews on the two cameras(Canon ISO 100 and Nikon ISO 200)...
too close to call.

I'm not sure I would discount ISO 100. There are times when you have too much light and want a slower shutter speed (ie - smooth out running water on a bright day). There have been times when I wished I had ISO 50!

[kb244]

I'm not sure I would discount ISO 100. There are times when you have too much light and want a slower shutter speed (ie - smooth out running water on a bright day). There have been times when I wished I had ISO 50!


I'm confuised bout him saying "Older" , the lower the ISO the far less of a chance of noise. With everyone else already doing ISO 100 and lower, why not allow it on a sensor thats already few hundreds more expensive than cams that do support it.

[4walls]

I'm not sure I would discount ISO 100. There are times when you have too much light and want a slower shutter speed (ie - smooth out running water on a bright day). There have been times when I wished I had ISO 50!
OK, but if it is a bright day, then ISO 50 is not going to be enough either. I know that ISO
50 on the G3 was often not enough for this effect. A good ND filter is really what you need
in that situation.

Basically, Nikon has decided that its NATIVE ISO (i.e. without amplifying the signal) is going to be 200 and Canon is 100. The image quality is there on both.

[Persian-Rice]

If you consider all factors including price, I would argue that it's even better then the 20D............but that is all based on what has been put on paper.

[roanjohn]

ISO 100 at 1/4000 is equal to ISO 200 at 1/8000. So technically, Nikon and Canon have similar top shutter speed...........

Ro1

[4walls]

If you consider all factors including price, I would argue that it's even better then the 20D............but that is all based on what has been put on paper.
I agree the D70 is a great camera... :lol:

[CyberDyneSystems]

Regarding flash sync

There is not a 35mm camera made that syncs above 1/250th
Nikon's flagship F5 maxes at 1/250th!

Why is faster suddenly so important?

EOS 1D was the first readily availble camera to have 1/500 flash sync. It is usefull to a rather specialized need.

Fill flash rarely needs to be used with super fast shutters,. (if you can get 1/1000th shutter that usually means there is a good light)

And of course,. Ken Rockwell is a horses *** :lol:

[CyberDyneSystems]

If you consider all factors including price, I would argue that it's even better then the 20D............but that is all based on what has been put on paper.

???

You've both lost me completely. One spec that few will ever need is faster in a camera and that makes it all around a bette camera?

We are still talking about the D70?

???

If one spec can tip the scale so far,. than why don't the dozen other specs that the 20D has over the D70 tip the scales?

[roanjohn]

And of course,. Ken Rockwell is a horses *** :lol:

OOPPPSSSS!!!! :twisted:

Ro1

[JaertX]

I agree the D70 is a great camera... :lol:

What is a D70?



OT, I wonder if the difference in the sensor on the 350D and the 20D is the filter instead of the actual sensor itself?

[roanjohn]

......................

OT, I wonder if the difference in the sensor on the 350D and the 20D is the filter instead of the actual sensor itself?

It's the actual sensor.

Ro1

[tim]

What is a D70?

OT, I wonder if the difference in the sensor on the 350D and the 20D is the filter instead of the actual sensor itself?

D70 is a Nikon camera.

Re filter - doubt it. Wouldn't be suprised if the sensors are essentially the same. 20D has 8.2 MP but only 8M are used, I think 350D only has 8M in total.

[CyberDyneSystems]

Ahhh now it all makes sense to me,..

Gentleman,. we have a traitor in out midst....... :lol: :lol:
http://www.nikonians.org/dcforum/DCForumID14/593.html#1
Please note the author of post #6 and #8 :rolleyes:

:lol:

Hey guys! We're Ignorant! :lol:

[sharky]

I resistend the rebel. I resisted the 20. Now we have the XT. While the new camera kicks the butt of my 10D on paper, I think I'll be hanging on to it for a while yet.

Apart from the fact that it still makes gorgeous images, the 10D just feels like it's built like a tank. It's solid, heavy and comparatively large, but all thouse things add to the experience of shooting with it, especially with some L glass attached to it.

We have an ad here at the moment which has the tag line "It just feels right", and for me at least, that sums up the 10D pretty well.

[blinking8s]

how much? im curious as to how they will make it worth the price difference from the 20d and shut the d70 market down

[Wazza]

dpreview says retail US$899.
Didn't the 300D get released at $999 body only?

And 20D was what? About $1599.

[MarkH]

My 10D with grip feels good to me. If I traded down to a 350D I would be thinking "this Honda is fast and all, but I miss my Merc". Seriously, what is with the girly little camera with its girly little batteries? Why is it a step up from the 10D like some suggest, when the specs and performance of my 10D are fine for my needs and my camera feels right in my hand?

I think I'll stick to my plan of waiting a couple of years before replacing my camera, I'll just look at buying an L lens or 3 while I wait.

[Wazza]

There also went my idea in a several months or whatever, to have a 350D as a second body. What use is there, to now start changing from the BP511s?!
Will just have to wait over a year now, keep the 20D as a 2nd body, and use a 1Dmkii, when they've dropped in price a lot more. :)

[daniel2828]

A Rebel XT virtual demo as they call it is available here:

http://www.photworkshop.com/canon/index.html

[roanjohn]

CDS - thats too funny!!!

My biggest gripe with the 10D is its sluggishness. Even "chimping" has become a chore. CHimping with the 20D is just a BREEZE!!! I loved that..........so hopefully the XT will be just as fast (especially with DIGIC II). I also think that the 10D is still a tad heavy after a whole day of hiking.........for me, the lighter the better (less strain on my neck). ANd of course, the start up time.........

Ro1

[PacAce]

Ahhh now it all makes sense to me,..

Gentleman,. we have a traitor in out midst....... :lol: :lol:
http://www.nikonians.org/dcforum/DCForumID14/593.html#1
Please note the author of post #6 and #8 :rolleyes:

:lol:

Hey guys! We're Ignorant! :lol:
Ah! So! I was wondering why he was making such a big deal about a trivial little thing as a higher max sync speed and quoting an article by Rockwell that stated the obvious without explaining the real reason one would want higher max sync speeds in the first place. Now it all makes sense. That turn-coat spy!! :evil:

Well, I guess I can only feel sorry for him. He probably got a D70 and is probably regretting that decisoin right now. :mrgreen: :lol:

[PacAce]

:mrgreen: :lol: :mrgreen:

[defordphoto]

D70 is a Nikon camera.

Re filter - doubt it. Wouldn't be suprised if the sensors are essentially the same. 20D has 8.2 MP but only 8M are used, I think 350D only has 8M in total.

No. The sensors are different. Like with the first Drebel Canon has to cut costs here and there and developing a new, cheaply-made sensor is one way to cut those costs.

The 20D is 8.5 with 8.2 used.

[dsze]

...all very interesting. I had no idea that this XT was even scheduled for release. I guess I haven't been reading the forums enough lately. At first glance the XT looks great! Sure blows the rebel away and at that price, what an awesome camera for someone just getting into SLR's, or just getting into digital period.

However, I wouldn't even give this camera a second thought as a backup unit. It looks like a toy or a P&S in my opinion and who wants to start a second collection of different batteries now? That whole battery change issue doesn't make any sense to me. Canon must be directing this new camera at the people who don't already have ANY other Canon DSLR's. The whole 8MP over 6MP doesnt' make much sense to me either. That just doesn't seem like a significant enough jump...more like a marketing ploy.

Not only will I not consider trading my 10D for the XT or the 20D, but if we're buying my first camera, I'd probably be looking for a slightly used 10D to buy and spend the rest on glass. I just don't see the upgrades being worthwhile...don't flame me :) The startup time really isn't an issue, because if I need to have my camera ready to shoot I don't turn it off in the first place! The extra 2MP don't mean much. The noise-reduction seems to also soften images in my opinion. And smaller, plasticy feel doesn't add any sex appeal. :) Just my opinion. ...glad to see Canon always on top of things and leading the market, but so far the updates aren't worthy of trading in the trusty ole 10D .

-daniel

[roanjohn]

:mrgreen: :lol: :mrgreen:

PacAce - THAT IS FUNNY!!!!!:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Ro1

[S230]

Ah! So! I was wondering why he was making such a big deal about a trivial little thing as a higher max sync speed and quoting an article by Rockwell that stated the obvious without explaining the real reason one would want higher max sync speeds in the first place. Now it all makes sense. That turn-coat spy!! :evil:

Well, I guess I can only feel sorry for him. He probably got a D70 and is probably regretting that decisoin right now. :mrgreen: :lol:
Wished Canon would had produced a better kit lens from the start. The comparison between the D70 and 300D is really about the Kit Lens. I too would agree that the Kit lens is better than canon's but that's just about it. I was originally debating which brand to go with but in the end, I look further ahead instead of just what's in front of me.
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=50304
The next best lineup for Nik*n is probably the D2X and ends there. For Canon, they keep improving and they are years ahead. Like how my friend said to me... "The camera is like a light box, it's the lens that counts". For now, Canon is definitely the choice for both Lens and Body.

[S230]

how much? im curious as to how they will make it worth the price difference from the 20d and shut the d70 market down
It's healthy for a little competition. The battle between the two companies look like Microsoft verses Apple.

I don't think the D70 is in the big league. They are only competing mainly with the Rebel and sometimes the 20D but they haven't mentioned anything about the 1d series...

I think if Canon wanted to, they can shut Nik*n down by lowering price and increase quality so much that people have no other reason than to only buy Canon cameras. (By doing so will also kill off other companies and competition)...

ie:
- lowering the 1d series enough to make their D2X obsolete even before it hits the shelves.
- Make the 300D under $500 range to kill off the CoolPix line
- Lower the powershot line cameras so cheap to kill off any remaining thought of going with another brand. (Brainwashing...)

[CyberDyneSystems]

:mrgreen: :lol: :mrgreen:

ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!

[CyberDyneSystems]

The next best lineup for Nik*n is probably the D2X and ends there. For Canon, they keep improving and they are years ahead. Like how my friend said to me... "The camera is like a light box, it's the lens that counts". For now, Canon is definitely the choice for both Lens and Body.

Also please recalll that the D2X was announced at Photokina BEFORE the 1Ds MkII....

We know several people that have 1Ds MkII's ... where is the D2X? :(

[DocFrankenstein]

...all very interesting. I had no idea that this XT was even scheduled for release. I guess I haven't been reading the forums enough lately. At first glance the XT looks great! Sure blows the rebel away and at that price, what an awesome camera for someone just getting into SLR's, or just getting into digital period.

However, I wouldn't even give this camera a second thought as a backup unit. It looks like a toy or a P&S in my opinion and who wants to start a second collection of different batteries now? That whole battery change issue doesn't make any sense to me. Canon must be directing this new camera at the people who don't already have ANY other Canon DSLR's. The whole 8MP over 6MP doesnt' make much sense to me either. That just doesn't seem like a significant enough jump...more like a marketing ploy.

Not only will I not consider trading my 10D for the XT or the 20D, but if we're buying my first camera, I'd probably be looking for a slightly used 10D to buy and spend the rest on glass. I just don't see the upgrades being worthwhile...don't flame me :) The startup time really isn't an issue, because if I need to have my camera ready to shoot I don't turn it off in the first place! The extra 2MP don't mean much. The noise-reduction seems to also soften images in my opinion. And smaller, plasticy feel doesn't add any sex appeal. :) Just my opinion. ...glad to see Canon always on top of things and leading the market, but so far the updates aren't worthy of trading in the trusty ole 10D .

-daniel
My sentiments exactly.

1) New rebel is small and plasticy. I can't imagine using it with 70-200 at all.

2) IMO resolution increase is minimal. If I have money I'd be better off getting a lens or a decent tripod. It prints OK at 13*19

3) Startup time and fast AF are "nice"... But useless to me. My subjects are not moving too much and there's no pressure to "get the shot"

4) I want to move towards full frame... Better bokeh and all... ;)

[JaertX]

D70 is a Nikon camera.

Re filter - doubt it. Wouldn't be suprised if the sensors are essentially the same. 20D has 8.2 MP but only 8M are used, I think 350D only has 8M in total.

:roll: What is a Nikon camera?

heh heh. Sorry. I meant the first of the post as sarcastic and the second part serious.

Nikon will always be BMW, it will never have the long life and functionality of Volkswagon (Canon) nor the luxury and quality of Mercedes Benz (Leica); shallow pride and the desire to be part of a meaningless brand name is the only thing keeping the company alive.

[DocFrankenstein]

What? I thought BMW and Merc were close? :confused:

[roanjohn]

Build
XT < 10D

Specs
XT = 10D

Custom Functions
XT < 10D

AF Speed
XT = 10D

Size
XT > 10D

Speed
XT > 10D

Price
XT = 10D

Pixel Size
XT > 10D

ISO Values
XT < 10D

Noise
XT > 10D

XT wins by 4 points.

Red = loser
Black = winner
Green = Equal

So...............XT > 10D

Right??

Ro1

[Jesper]

Specs: I'd say XT > 10D

AF Speed: We don't really know yet, but I think the XT doesn't have a high-sensitivity cross-type AF sensor in the middle like the 10D. I'd guess XT < 10D.

ISO Values: Yes, XT < 10D, but ISO 3200 on the 10D is so noisy that it's not really very useful.

Pop-up flash: XT > 10D (the 10D's pop-up flash is a joke.... :( )

Flash system: XT > 10D (the XT has E-TTL II, the 10D doesn't)

Connectivity: XT > 10D (the XT has USB 2.0, the 10D only USB 1.1)

In my opinion, the XT is clearly better than the 10D.

[MarkH]

Specs: I'd say XT > 10D

AF Speed: We don't really know yet, but I think the XT doesn't have a high-sensitivity cross-type AF sensor in the middle like the 10D. I'd guess XT < 10D.

ISO Values: Yes, XT < 10D, but ISO 3200 on the 10D is so noisy that it's not really very useful.

Pop-up flash: XT > 10D (the 10D's pop-up flash is a joke.... :( )

Flash system: XT > 10D (the XT has E-TTL II, the 10D doesn't)

Connectivity: XT > 10D (the XT has USB 2.0, the 10D only USB 1.1)

In my opinion, the XT is clearly better than the 10D.


Until you hold both in your hand and realise that Canon made the 10D very well, but subcontracted the body construction of the 350D out to Fisher-Price.

Seriously, if my 10D was stolen/broken/whatever and I had some insurance money to spend on a new camera - the 20D would be the only one I would consider. However if I won Lotto and decided to buy a new camera then the 1DMkII would be my choice.

[CoolToolGuy]

My 2 cents (in no particular order). I know the debate is between the 10D and the Drebel, but my comparisons with the 20D are similar:

Battery: On the 20D, a single BP511 is plenty adequate. The reason to get the grip is for the vertical controls, not the extra battery power. For the DreXT, Canon may have improved the battery utilization even more, which enables them to get acceptable performance out of the smaller battery pack and reduce the overall size and weight of the body. This may be the new standard for the consumer and prosumer DSLRs. Time will tell.

Controls: Control layouts will always vary between camera series, so the photographer will always need to adjust. There are some parts of the Drebel control layout that I like better than the 20D, and some on the 20D that I like better than the Drebel - Canon can't please everyone. For me, the one control on the Drebel that I would REALLY rather have on the 20D is the on/off switch. When I pull the Drebel out of the bag and hold it ready to shoot, if it is turned off I can turn it on with the hand I am holding it in. With the 20D, I have to at least steady the body with the left hand to turn it on. I'm not going to start a petition or anything, but that is the one that matters most to me.

Lens mount: In the years to come this may be the biggest factor affecting prices of a used 10D, D60, or D30. We are beginning to see the fleshing-out of the EF-S catalog, and I think Canon will continue to provide lenses specifically for the 1.6 bodies - but in the EF-S mount. Olympus just announced two zooms with a max constant aperture of f2.0. Canon has yet to sell a zoom below f2.8. Such a zoom (an EF-S 'L' perhaps?) would be easier and cheaper to produce if they are working with the APS-C image circle. Regardless of a faster zoom, the older bodies cannot use the EF-S lenses, and if a raft of them appear the value of the older bodies will decrease.

Have Fun,

[CyberDyneSystems]

So what would it take to buy the EFs lens mount part from Canon and retro fit it to a 10D ? ;)

[CoolToolGuy]

So what would it take to buy the EFs lens mount part from Canon and retro fit it to a 10D ? ;)

Geez, other than the mount ring for the body I think we're talking about the whole mirror assembly, and possibly the pentaprism for the 20D. Not a project I would want to undertake! :shock:

Have Fun,