350d or 20d?

[clarity]

il probably be upgrading soon,
just wanted to know which would
be the best bang for the buck..:D
thanks =]

[tim]

350D is definitely the best bang for the buck, no question.

[Persian-Rice]

rebel, you get more camera for your money.

[aam1234]

short term...rebel

semi long term...20D

[tim]

I knew the 350D was coming, I decided to get the 20D, and I don't regret it one bit: it's a fantastic camera. The Rebel is probably 90% the camera for about 60% the cost (guesstimate).

[Raj]

I knew the 350D was coming, I decided to get the 20D, and I don't regret it one bit: it's a fantastic camera. The Rebel is probably 90% the camera for about 60% the cost (guesstimate).
same feelings here :-)

[defordphoto]

il probably be upgrading soon,
just wanted to know which would
be the best bang for the buck..:D
thanks =]

There is no simple answer without knowing what you're planning to do with the camera. A lot of people are on the Drebel XT bandwagon cause it's new, but the 20D offers quite a few more features that a photographer may need depending on their intentions of use.

[kb244]

After seeing that the 350D uses the battery from the S50/S70, and not the 20Ds/300D battery, I dont know if myself personally wants 50% of the battery life. But then again I have the original Dreb and I like my battery life, why canon did that I dont know, but heck if you dont already have batteries, grips, etc, 350D would definitly be best bangs for bucks, but if at a later time you decide to upgrade to a higher end cam, like say the 20D or it's predecesors you cant use the batteries for example on it. Thats my only gripe I can see as of now.

[pcasciola]

Depends what you consider bang, and what you consider more camera. For me, the 20D's bang is the 5fps, 23+ shot large JPeg buffer and ISO 3200, nearly double what the Rebel XT is offering in these areas, so I can't say I agree it's 90% the camera. More like 60% for what I need it for. And at 60-70% the price of the 20D, I'd say the price-to-performance is about equal, for my needs anyway.

If performance is not your main concern, the Rebel XT would probably be the best bang for the buck.

[roanjohn]

Hmmm............I am now on the same boat............Have a 10D and waiting to upgrade. The biggest plus the XT gives me is the size.............The biggest plus the 20D gives me is the better AF (these are just my priorities). They are both fast.

Ro1

[tim]

Don't count out that scroll wheel - it's damned handy. Better AF is good, of course, but i've not noticed a huge difference between the 20D and the 300D. The biggest thing is the whole camera is just so fast - but I think the 350D will be the same in that regard. I never fill the buffer when I use jpg, and only occasionally when I use RAW.

The 350D is going to kill Nikon unless they can offer some competition fast.

[Tom W]

Hmmm............I am now on the same boat............Have a 10D and waiting to upgrade. The biggest plus the XT gives me is the size.............The biggest plus the 20D gives me is the better AF (these are just my priorities). They are both fast.

Ro1

Well, the 20D is smaller and lighter than the 10D, at least a little bit. If you're used to the control operation on the 10D, the 20D will be a breeze to use.

[roanjohn]

Well, the 20D is smaller and lighter than the 10D, at least a little bit. If you're used to the control operation on the 10D, the 20D will be a breeze to use.

We'll see.............I really need to see these two in person........

When I first purchased a digital camera, I was set on buying the Canon S30.............but the salesperson showed me the S400, and I just fell in love with the size (the features didn't even matter).

I wonder if this will happen with the XT.

Ro1

[Tom W]

I have the S-400. It was a very busy camera when I forst got it. I used it a little less after getting my 10D last year, but I haven't touched it lately. It is still a cool little camera - handy as all he**, and looks good as well.

[kwang0429]

I'd get a 20D :)

[swoop1156]

I was going to make my first post an intorduction post, but I just debated over this very topic.

I bought the Canon Kiss Digital [I live in Japan], even though I knew Canon was going to release a new successor to the 300D at the PMA. I guessed it to be near the 20D, but not as good, that would have been dumb.

Anyway, now with the specs out, I am so glad that I got the dRebel/300D/Kiss over the wait for the 350D/Rebel-XT/Kiss n Digital.

I almost sprung for the 20D, but with the firmware hack available for the 300D and the almost 10D like features, I couldn't justify the extra money for the 20D that I could sink into lens's. Even with the 350D, the extra $400-$500 you could save over the 300D to 350D could be half a darn nice lens. You don't get that many features, here is a list that we have of the features of the 350D vs. the 20D:

20D over 350D/XT:

1. 5 vs. 3 fps
2. 9 pt AF with high-accuracy center cross sensor when used with F2.8 or faster lenses vs. 7 pt AF and no high-accuracy sensor
3. 6 frame RAW vs 5 (or 4 when shooting RAW + JPEG)
4. 21-23 (depending on spec you read) JPEG buffering vs 14
5. 1/8000s max shutter vs 1/4000s
6. 1/250s flash synch vs. 1/200s
7. 8.2 Mpixel sensor vs. 8.0 (with some other differences probably due to modifying sensor for cost and elimination of circuits needed for higher frame rate readout)
8. ISO 3200 max vs ISO 1600
9. Magnesium body vs. polycarbonate (with steel subframe?)
10. 118,000 pixel LCD vs. 115,000
11. Slightly higher viewfinder mag
12. More custom functions
13. Larger capacity BP-511a battery vs. NB-2LH (half the capacity)
14. Command dial and joystick on back vs. compass-button pad
15. Secondary LCD on top vs. back
16. No auto-pop-up flash vs. auto pop-up
17. Selectable embedded JPEG with RAW vs. one fixed siz

Not too much to oogle the extra money over. Get the 300D [or even the 350D] and save the money.

I just bought my 300D, like I said, and I could have easily afforded the 20D -- but for the bang vs. buck and features vs. practicality...300 [or 350] is the way.

Hi, by the way. I am new to the forum!

[Raj]

Good summary & welcome swoop :-)

[D Boone]

Tim... I feel betrayed by the carrot. I miss Mia.. :o .. Oh and I don't know who you know way down there that tipped you off to the canon rebel upgrade, but thats part of the reason you upgraded right? So you wouldn't loose so much money on selling your Drebel used after the announcement? I am pretty sad this morning... I feel stuck with my Drebel that I bought about 2 months ago for what I could have the new rebel for, and now Mia's gone... And that was the best picture of her anywhere I have ever seen! :(


Sorry if no-one knows what I am talking about.
Guess I'll hang onto my DRebel until the new D20 model comes out.

[tim]

I upgraded to the 20D because I like new toys, and wanted a few of the features. The timing was because I knew the 350D was coming out and that it'd blow the 300D away. It was time for a change with the avatar ;)

[Mthorpe_Davies]

Is the 350 grip the same as the one for the 20D it looks the same.

[Fills]

Is the 350 grip the same as the one for the 20D it looks the same.

Looks the same but I don't think so. I believe it is the BG-03 where the 300D is BG-01 and 20D is BG-02. The 350 used different batteries as well, so wouldn't make sense.

[KenE]

You can buy a 20D right now. It might take longer than soon to get a 350D, gotta let the hype machine spinup a little. :D Just depends on your definitions, and the other points made above.

[Wildman]

The new Rebel is probably a great camera. I haven't seen any reviews on it yet, however. The 20D had some teething problems (none of which I have never experienced). Anyone who says anything about a camera which is two months from availability has limited credibility.

I know that the 20D is a wonderful camera and after a thousand exposures has finally taught me something about using it. It has been a steep learning curve, as it was my first DSLR.

I've learned that lenses are at least as importatant as cameras and cost more. I bought the EFS 17-85IS lens with my 20D and have never regretted it.

I wouldn't discourage you from investigating (or even buying) the new DigiReb, but you have to wait till it reaches the market. Remember the difference between its cost and that of the 20D is one decent lens.

I guess you have to weigh the cost of waiting for the new Rebel vs buying the 20D now and the use of the new camera for the three or four months you'll have to wait.

[defordphoto]

Looks the same but I don't think so. I believe it is the BG-03 where the 300D is BG-01 and 20D is BG-02. The 350 used different batteries as well, so wouldn't make sense.

Sorta...

The original that was for the D30/D60/10D/Drebel was fondly known as Big-Ed, or BG-ED. The grip for the 20D is the BG-E2 and the grip for the Drebel XT is the BG-E3 and uses an entirely different battery than any its predecessors.

[cc10d]

IN the lists of things the 20D has that may not be on the new rebel, I do not see any mention of the precision focus available on the 20D with f 2.8 and faster lenses. I don't see mention of that on the 350, did I miss it somewhere?

[Wildman]

The new Rebel is probably a great camera. I haven't seen any reviews on it yet, however. The 20D had some teething problems (none of which I have never experienced). Anyone who says anything about a camera which is two months from availability has limited credibility.

I know that the 20D is a wonderful camera and after a thousand exposures has finally taught me something about using it. It has been a steep learning curve, as it was my first DSLR.

I've learned that lenses are at least as importatant as cameras and cost more. I bought the EFS 17-85IS lens with my 20D and have never regretted it.

I wouldn't discourage you from investigating (or even buying) the new DigiReb, but you have to wait till it reaches the market. Remember the difference between its cost and that of the 20D is one decent lens.

I guess you have to weigh the cost of waiting for the new Rebel vs buying the 20D now and the use of the new camera for the three or four months you'll have to wait.

[timmyquest]

This is really the same debate we've been having since the 20D came out

"20D or 1D?"
"20D or 1DMKII?"

The bottom line is that these cameras are all differnt. Though the gap between the top of the line, and the bottom of it, seems to be getting smaller, it is still there.

This is a great camera and i think its a smart camera (for canon). For all those people who couldnt decide between the 20D and the D70...you now have an obvious choice. For those of you whou couldnt decide between a 300D and a 20D...i'm sorry.

If i had no DSLR, i'd rather have the 20D. But, we'll see how well the AF system performs, how well the high ISO performs, metal body etc etc etc.

I still think the 20D would come out on top in every cat. (cept maybe that ISO)

[Tom W]

The easiest way to deal with the debate, at least with ones-self, is to chart the features of each and decide which ones you want and which ones are not important to you.

[Chazs]

The easiest way to deal with the debate, at least with ones-self, is to chart the features of each and decide which ones you want and which ones are not important to you.

Been there: done that. Lamented about the 350D for the last few days. But in the end I decided on the 20D. Hope to get it next week, or maybe tomorrow when I head to Seattle.

[michael.luczkow]

i would get the 20D again even after reading about the new rebel. I would also consider buying the new rebel as a back up camera if it werent for the battery incompatability. Plus a metal body is a VERY big thing to me.

[oddball]

My first post-

A few weeks ago, I was absolutely hell bent on getting my first dSLR, the D-70 and actually ordered it. But lingering doubt and research pushed me to return the unit unopened (moire issue, among other things, was the deal breaker). After much thinking and sweating, I finally decided on the Canon 20D, even though the set-up would be over-budget. Then it was advised (forums) to wait until after the Orlando show...
The new Rebel XT is THE answer to my needs, budget, and aesthetics. On paper, this is more camera, and less expensive than my original D-70 dream. I used to be a N**** owner (35mm) with several old F-mount lenses, but I now realize that Nikon is not the leading edge of digital technology.

I can wait a few weeks...

[markubig]

20D over 350D/XT:

1. 5 vs. 3 fps
2. 9 pt AF with high-accuracy center cross sensor when used with F2.8 or faster lenses vs. 7 pt AF and no high-accuracy sensor
3. 6 frame RAW vs 5 (or 4 when shooting RAW + JPEG)
4. 21-23 (depending on spec you read) JPEG buffering vs 14
5. 1/8000s max shutter vs 1/4000s
6. 1/250s flash synch vs. 1/200s
7. 8.2 Mpixel sensor vs. 8.0 (with some other differences probably due to modifying sensor for cost and elimination of circuits needed for higher frame rate readout)
8. ISO 3200 max vs ISO 1600
9. Magnesium body vs. polycarbonate (with steel subframe?)
10. 118,000 pixel LCD vs. 115,000
11. Slightly higher viewfinder mag
12. More custom functions
13. Larger capacity BP-511a battery vs. NB-2LH (half the capacity)
14. Command dial and joystick on back vs. compass-button pad
15. Secondary LCD on top vs. back
16. No auto-pop-up flash vs. auto pop-up
17. Selectable embedded JPEG with RAW vs. one fixed siz




So is the gap between the 20D and 350D smaller than the gap between the 10D and 300D?

[bubba zanetti]

For all those people who couldnt decide between the 20D and the D70...you now have an obvious choice.

Very valid point IMO. Remembering that not every one is upgrading but some coming into DSLR's fresh.

This same debate will ring out loud & clear in 18 months time again at the next model & so on & so on & so on, its simply evolution.

Im not a DSLR owner as of yet (soon...soon) & i can relate only to motorcycle racing where a quick rider on an average bike will whoop a average rider on a quick bike everytime...it comes down to the users ability i think.

[scottbergerphoto]

I was going to make my first post an intorduction post, but I just debated over this very topic.

I bought the Canon Kiss Digital [I live in Japan], even though I knew Canon was going to release a new successor to the 300D at the PMA. I guessed it to be near the 20D, but not as good, that would have been dumb.

Anyway, now with the specs out, I am so glad that I got the dRebel/300D/Kiss over the wait for the 350D/Rebel-XT/Kiss n Digital.

I almost sprung for the 20D, but with the firmware hack available for the 300D and the almost 10D like features, I couldn't justify the extra money for the 20D that I could sink into lens's. Even with the 350D, the extra $400-$500 you could save over the 300D to 350D could be half a darn nice lens. You don't get that many features, here is a list that we have of the features of the 350D vs. the 20D:

20D over 350D/XT:

1. 5 vs. 3 fps
2. 9 pt AF with high-accuracy center cross sensor when used with F2.8 or faster lenses vs. 7 pt AF and no high-accuracy sensor
3. 6 frame RAW vs 5 (or 4 when shooting RAW + JPEG)
4. 21-23 (depending on spec you read) JPEG buffering vs 14
5. 1/8000s max shutter vs 1/4000s
6. 1/250s flash synch vs. 1/200s
7. 8.2 Mpixel sensor vs. 8.0 (with some other differences probably due to modifying sensor for cost and elimination of circuits needed for higher frame rate readout)
8. ISO 3200 max vs ISO 1600
9. Magnesium body vs. polycarbonate (with steel subframe?)
10. 118,000 pixel LCD vs. 115,000
11. Slightly higher viewfinder mag
12. More custom functions
13. Larger capacity BP-511a battery vs. NB-2LH (half the capacity)
14. Command dial and joystick on back vs. compass-button pad
15. Secondary LCD on top vs. back
16. No auto-pop-up flash vs. auto pop-up
17. Selectable embedded JPEG with RAW vs. one fixed siz

Not too much to oogle the extra money over. Get the 300D [or even the 350D] and save the money.

I just bought my 300D, like I said, and I could have easily afforded the 20D -- but for the bang vs. buck and features vs. practicality...300 [or 350] is the way.

Hi, by the way. I am new to the forum!
I read your post and came to the exact opposite conclusion. The 20D is made better and performs better. Sometimes you still get what you pay for. Thanks for the detailed comparison.
Scott

[michael.luczkow]

every store i've been to that has a 300D siting on the shelf felt like the camera was about to fall apart. quite simply it felt like a plastic pile of crap to me. The real answer to which camera to get depends simply on how long you plan on having it for. I'm going to have my camera for probably 3 years so I went with the 20D. If you are patiently waiting for something you'de like to see in the industry that will take a few years (ehem, affordable 35mm sensors) then the 350 seems like a GREAT camera to "hold you over". But hey... whatever floats your boat.

[pcasciola]

I read your post and came to the exact opposite conclusion. The 20D is made better and performs better. Sometimes you still get what you pay for. Thanks for the detailed comparison.
ScottWow, I didn't even realize that post ended with, not much more for the money!!! By those standards, the 1D Mk II doesn't even offer that much over the 20D. If the 1D Mk II was $500 or $1000 more than the 20D, I definitely would not own a 20D.

[scottbergerphoto]

Wow, I didn't even realize that post ended with, not much more for the money!!! By those standards, the 1D Mk II doesn't even offer that much over the 20D. If the 1D Mk II was $500 or $1000 more than the 20D, I definitely would not own a 20D.
I can't tell if you're agreeing or disagreeing. :D
Scott

[pcasciola]

I can't tell if you're agreeing or disagreeing. :D
Scott

Yeah, that didn't come out right. Let's just say I agree with you. To say there is not much difference after listing all those features is like saying there is not much difference between a Ford Focus and a Ferrari 360.

[CyberDyneSystems]

il probably be upgrading soon,
just wanted to know which would
be the best bang for the buck..:D
thanks =]

If you were a first time SLR buyer I would say the 350XT definitely,...

But you are looking to upgrade,. I'd suggest, if you can swing the extra $$ then you might want to go straight to the 20D unless you prefer a smaller camera.

Also timeframe plays a part,. usually when Canpn announces a Camera at PMA we don't see it untill Late April/early May on store shelves.

If you can wait, maybe wait untill you get a chance to handle each one. Otherwise,. the 20D is the larger "upgrade"