Basic Question Regarding PS Elements 3

[Hydro]

Just starting, and finding that the mountain to climb regarding post processing may be harder than becoming functional with the camera. I have been shooting without flash in some challenging places for a newb, like softball under the lights and basketball in weirdly lit gyms. I have been shooting in RAW, which I open in PSE3. I do the best I can with the WB eyedropper, but don't mess with the other sliders much, then click "OK" which opens it into the editor. But when it opens into that next window, the shot seems to change in terms of WB, contrast, etc. It seems to lighten significantly. Then I click all the quick fix idot buttons which works OK most times, but at other times seems to make it worse.

Messing with the individual adjustments seem to yeild mixed results also, which of course is due to inexperience. I've sat in front of the computer playing with this until I have the 40 meter stare. But my question is this, I guess: Most folks in these threads seem to use PSCS, and most discussion revolves around that or similar programs. The cost is pretty high, but is PSE just too low end to get good results, or do I just need to keep slogging it out with that software?

I am saving the raw files of my best shots (it's like a time capsule or freezing a corpse) against the day I get better at this.

Thanks for any input.

[Avalonthas]

PSE is alright but its more entry level, as PSCS has much more functunality and can vastly improve your images, and you can also develope your own techniques once u get good at it, so its a very flexible and great editing tool. Im not sure if you purchased elements or if u got it for free or with your computer but I have to be honest if u bought it, it was a bad purchase.

I recommend getting the PSCs trial and try it out for 30 days and determine if u can get some more use out of it. Its not too hard to get used to, but some do have trouble in the beginning, so check out some of the tutorials around the forums. If you like it, save up. Dont know what the prices go in US, but in Canada, copies can be picked up for $419.98 Canadian, and for the entire Adobe creative suite, its $550 CDN. Also most Canadian sellers also include a free PSCS training cd with ur purchase so its a great deal.

[PhotosGuy]

You sound as if you might be a student? There are academic discounts for them.

[ejwebb]

I have to take exception with Avalthonsas here - and ask whether he has ever even used Photoshop Elements 3? Please explain exactly what tools are in CS that "vastly improve your images" that are not in PSE3? There are simple workarounds or free add-ons that provide curves and masks - which are two of the major differences.

Especially for someone just learning how to process photos, I don't think PSE3 lacks much. It is certainly not a bad purchase - it is one of the best values out there given the features it provides, which in some ways are more robust than CS. The quality of the processed images is much more dependent on the skill and experience of the photographer than the software in this case. I would focus on learning how to use what you have and not spend the money on CS until you can recognize the limitations of PSE3 and how it impacts your work - it may never be an issue.

As PSE3 uses the same basic "engine" as CS it is certainly not "low end" - the software is every bit as capable of producing quality images in the right hands. Furthermore, the RAW converter in PSE3 is the same as in CS (you can even download the latest Adobe Camera Raw upgrade for CS into PSE3) - with a few of the more advanced functions turned off. Upgrading to CS will not provide the learning and experience you need to understand and use the tools correctly.

Take some time to play with it, buy a book or two and do some tutorials before you decide to spend several hundred dollars on a few features that you might not need. You can download CS and see for yourself that it is really not all that different from PSE3 - with either it is up to you to utilize the software to its fullest and that requires an investment of time.

Don't get me wrong - I would love to have CS and if money is no object then go for it. Personally I would rather put the cash towards a new camera lens to improve my photography!

[snibbetsj]

I started with PSE 2 and now use PSE3. I don't think just simply moving to PSCS is going to improve your photos. You get 98% of the necessary functions of PSCS in PSE3. The only things I miss are 1) curves (but I got Richard Lynch's Hidden powers book/software which takes care of that) 2) Layers on 16bit files and 3) Conversion to sRGB (without doing a "save for the web").


Get Scott Kelby's book for PSE 3, follow his tutorials/actions and you'll be better off.

Just my $.02 worth. :)

[Hydro]

Thanks for all the input, and any more opinions forthcoming. It's very true that I am only scratching the surface of PE3 and am hardly proficient at it. It makes perfect sense to understand it well enough to know of it's limitations before upgrading. I guess I just am impatient to get up to speed fast, and wondered whether buying books and playing with PE3 is less efficient than just biting the bullett and starting with the program I would end up with eventually if I am serious about this.

My wife is a teacher, and I believe as such could qualify for the $300 version, and I can still return the PE3 (which cost about $90) in the next few days for a store credit. Based on that PSCS it starting to look better.

Following with great interest, though, the difference of opinion about how much better CS is than PE3. Opinions seem to range greatly on this issue.

Thanks again for all the input. This site is invaluble as a source of information.

[ejwebb]

snibbetsj:

Conversion to sRGB (without doing a "save for the web")

Try this site - a bit convoluted but actually converts image as opposed to assigning a profile (which is all "save for web" does) - not the same thing:

http://www.earthboundlight.com/phototips/elements-color-management.html

[ejwebb]

And while you are at it you might check these out - free Curves and other tools for PSE3!!

http://www.earthboundlight.com/phototips/photoshop-elements-curves.html

[snibbetsj]

snibbetsj:



Try this site - a bit convoluted but actually converts image as opposed to assigning a profile (which is all "save for web" does) - not the same thing:

http://www.earthboundlight.com/phototips/elements-color-management.html

Thanks for the info! It is pretty convoluted, I think I'm going to look into that QImage s/w. For $45 it might be the best route to take.
:)

[PhotosGuy]

I think I'm going to look into that QImage s/w. For $45 If you look around, you can probably find PSE3 for not much more than that, & you'll find a LOT more people here to help you with it. Something to consider. ;-)

[chris.bailey]

My advice, for what that is worth, is to stick to Elements until you REALLY REALLY need full blown Photoshop. I have got several Newbie's, including my wife, going on Elements and it is quite sufficient for most people. Its not just the capital cost but the upgrades tend to get pricey. I use both (CS on my main computer and Elements on the Laptop) and it is very rare that I NEED to use CS though as I have grown up with Photoshop I have got used to its interface more than Elements. Get a couple of books on Elements, there are loads to choose from, and if you are feeling very brave, post up a picture in Critique Corner and ask for advice specifically based on Elements (or you will get all sorts of CS only fixes). If you flick back through this forum there are a few Elements specific threads with some really good answers.

[snibbetsj]

If you look around, you can probably find PSE3 for not much more than that, & you'll find a LOT more people here to help you with it. Something to consider. ;)

I do have PSE3 and like it a lot. I just want to be able to easily convert color spaces :)

[markubig]

But when it opens into that next window, the shot seems to change in terms of WB, contrast, etc. It seems to lighten significantly. Then I click all the quick fix idot buttons which works OK most times, but at other times seems to make it worse.

Messing with the individual adjustments seem to yeild mixed results also, which of course is due to inexperience. I've sat in front of the computer playing with this until I have the 40 meter stare.

Are you talking about the RAW converter changing your pictures drastically? If so, i was in a similar situation. I found that the converter will open the picture to whatever WB/Tint you have set as "Camera Default". You should change the WB to "As Shot" and then click on the right arrow to set it to camera default. That way, every RAW picture you open up will be at the exact temperature it was taken in, then you can make ur adjustments from there.

sorry if i'm addressing the wrong situation . . . but that's what i thought you were talking about.

[Hydro]

Actually, what I meant was I open the RAW image in PE3, fuss with the WB mostly to fine tune it, maybe a little adjustment on the exposure, then click "OK" which opens it in the PE3 editing window. It is then that the image seems to change from what I was seeing in the first screen---it seems to brighten, but not in a good way.

[markubig]

Actually, what I meant was I open the RAW image in PE3, fuss with the WB mostly to fine tune it, maybe a little adjustment on the exposure, then click "OK" which opens it in the PE3 editing window. It is then that the image seems to change from what I was seeing in the first screen---it seems to brighten, but not in a good way.

oh sorry . . . not sure what to do there . . . is ur monitor calibrated? If not, try calibrating it . . . also, maybe your color management needs to be changed. mine is set to sRGB (limited color management) and everything comes out right for me.

[Hydro]

I'll give it a shot. Thanks for the input. It just seems like even if the color management and monitor calibration is not quite right, the rendering should be the same. Or maybe I'm just hallucinating. Anyway, I bought Kelby's books on PSE3 and am starting to understand it a bit more.