People don't understand...

[cheson74]

I think most people don’t understand the amount of work that goes into photography. I think the majority think that DSLRs are like point and shoot cameras.

I’m in the US Army and have been deployed to Iraq for the past 11 months. I’ve taken a ton of photos for my Company and Battalion. I don’t mind because it’s a break away from the crappy life in Iraq.

As an example, a couple days ago, we had a change of command ceremony. I took about 237 photos of which, 80ish were unique and the rest were various burst shots. I gave him 80 shots that I processed within the first 24 hours of the shoot. My First Sergeant wants ALL of the photos and wants them immediately. I didn’t even bother explaining that I shoot in all RAW.

This type of grief does take a lot of joy out of photographing. It amazes me people regardless of profession want instant gratification. They all seem to think the "big expensive camera" takes nice point and shoot pictures.

Anybody else deal with similar expectations from clients, family, friends, etc?

[S-S]

thing is you can only work as fast as you can work... tell him each photo takes 5 mins to process & prepare, if he argues give him 1 raw file and show him its no good like that

[markya]

Give him a CD burned with all the RAW images. Assume he can't open them and give him the processed files later when he's not looked at them 3 weeks later?

It sucks though...

[woodsie]

Probably doesn't help in this case, but might for future reference. I shoot RAW+S so that if I need to give some instant feedback I can just pop them the small JPEGs with the explanation that I can give them better quality images later.. The small JPEGs are so small compared to the RAW files it has virtually no impact on the capacity of my memory card.

[DC Fan]

My First Sergeant wants ALL of the photos and wants them immediately.
Welcome to the real world.

When you deal with clients, whether sergeants or companies or editors, you're going to deal with deadlines. If you can't quickly produce a usable product for those people, you won't get jobs and those who can produce that product will get the jobs. Working pros deal with hard deadlines all the time, and now it's your turn to learn. First, find what your client wants in advance, then work so you can deliver that material on time.

If you have files that your client can't use or are in a format the client doesn't want, you're not done.

[yogestee]

There you go,, there's your problem,, you shot in RAW..

On a serious side,, I never shoot in RAW.. I worked for a newspaper for 17 years,, digital since 1999 but we never shot in RAW for a number of reasons.. When you have 80 to 100 images to PP, convert, PP and file to meet deadline RAW is a damn pain in the butt.. Our imagining department, the guys who made our pics look good and suitable for publication only accepted Jpeg for the same reasons..

Shooting RAW is a pain in the arse if you have a deadline..

Long Live Jpeg!!!

[Pete]

Shoot RAW + L

That way, you can hand over the jpg files and explain that if they want any improving, then you can do that. If he's happy with the jpg files, then that's fine - less work for you.

Then you're free to process your favourite RAW files in your own time without being hassled to meet a deadline. When you're happy with your work, re-submit saying that you've made some of them look better.

[ThomGascoigne]

Yeah man all the time.. What can I say.. People are idiots.

[chauncey]

I might suggest that you inadvertently took a picture of someone in the formation ceremony that
didn't want their picture taken and that your Sergeant was playing "cover my a$$".

[jacuff]

Shoot RAW + L

That way, you can hand over the jpg files and explain that if they want any improving, then you can do that. If he's happy with the jpg files, then that's fine - less work for you.

Then you're free to process your favourite RAW files in your own time without being hassled to meet a deadline. When you're happy with your work, re-submit saying that you've made some of them look better.

Even better yet, shoot RAW + Fine Small. On your 5D, those images will be 2496x1664. That should be plenty big enough for most of what they want to use your images for. This will buy you time to process your RAWs that you can resubmit later if necessary.

On any paid gig, I always shoot RAW + Normal Small if handing over images immediately is required. The Small Normal JPEGs are the proofs that I can give right away (after a batch resize and watermarking).

[rabidcow]

Leaping from RAW to JPEG is scary, but you might want to consider it. I quit shooting RAW altogether and life is peachy.

[SkipD]

Shoot RAW + LI always shoot RAW plus Large JPG. Like Pete said, it gives you the best of both worlds - .JPGs that you can distribute immediately if needed and RAW for any post-processing work you may want to do.

It's rather important, though, to get your exposures and white balance correct in the camera if you're going to distribute the unedited .JPG files. Some folks use RAW format so that they can be "lazy" (for lack of a better term) about getting exposures and white balance optimized in the camera. If you're shooting all .JPG files, you have to be shooting as if you were shooting film.

[cheson74]

Meeting deadlines is not a problem. My issue is with people that want the 200+ images shot and delivered the next day.

I've avoided shooting RAW+JPG out of personal pride. I didn't want to handle over a less than complete shoot. However, it they are going to make unrealistic demands, then I'll just eat the pride and hand over the JPG files.

Thanks for the input. Keep em coming.

On another note, they asked me how I wanted the formation to look. I told them I didn't really care as long as they don't have their backs to the sun. Guess how they setup the formation? hah go figure.

[PhotosGuy]

There you go,, there's your problem,, you shot in RAW.. No. The problem is unrealistic expectations & I'd never allow a "client" to dictate how I capture my images . The field first needs to be educated is all. RAW + L would partially solve the problem, but he needs to understand that time needs to be spent to tweak the images after the event, even if it's only final sharpening. So he needs to pick just a few if he needs them right away.

[cheson74]

Here are some of the photos. They could have been a lot better if not for their backs to the sun but overall, I'm happy with the way they turned out.

The ceremony was for changing out Company Commanders. The old Commander was with us for almost 3 years and led the Company through 11 months in Iraq. The new Commander will take the helm for the last 4 months here.

http://www.dphoto.us/forumphotos/data/2172/Soldiers.jpg
http://www.dphoto.us/forumphotos/data/2172/CO.jpg
http://www.dphoto.us/forumphotos/data/2172/1st_Plt.jpg

[Tixeon]

My #1 rule with 1St Sergeant's is to be hard to find. Then when they do find you, tell him you've been looking all over for him;). Or just convert a few RAW files & give them to him. While he's figuring out that you didn't give him all of them, you could be processing the rest. You just say "Really, weren't they all on there? OK, here, take my copy" & then hand him the full CD & tell him he can have your master copy.:D Makes the military more fun when you learn how to work the system.

Then again Chauncey might be right.:p

Just a thought - Were you using your own personal camera, or one provided by the company?

[Maddog12]

First of all I commend you for your commitment and desire to serve. We greatly appreciate what you are doing.

I usually shoot RAW+JPEG. Nine times out of ten I disregard the RAW files after downloading because I got it right when I pushed the shutter. RAW is kinda like my insurance. I take lots of photos of kids and when they are constantly moving in and out lighting conditions I dont always get my settings adjusted properly.....that is when I use a RAW file.

[DunnoWhen]

I think the answer is easier than has been suggested before.....just tell the Sgt you need to send the images out to be developed. If he's of the same ilk as some of those I've known, I'm sure he'll believe you:)

[cheson74]

Just a thought - Were you using your own personal camera, or one provided by the company?

My own camera. I used a 5D, 17-40L, 35L and 70-200 during the shoot.


Or just convert a few RAW files & give them to him

Yep, I gave him 80 within first 24 hours but he knew I took more :rolleyes:

[Tixeon]

My own camera. I used a 5D, 17-40L, 35L and 70-200 during the shoot.

Since you're photographing for the military - Who pays if your camera needs repairs?


Yep, I gave him 80 within first 24 hours but he knew I took more :rolleyes:

Like I said earlier, that just gives you a little elbow room to convert the rest. Remember, you're doing him the favor.

I've been there, done that, & survived Vietnam, worked for many 1St Sergeants & CO's. They need reminding occasionally who makes them look good. Just do it diplomatically - no smart ass stuff.

Keep up the good work over there & please come home alive & well.

[_aravena]

No. The problem is unrealistic expectations & I'd never allow a "client" to dictate how I capture my images . The field first needs to be educated is all. RAW + L would partially solve the problem, but he needs to understand that time needs to be spent to tweak the images after the event, even if it's only final sharpening. So he needs to pick just a few if he needs them right away.

They're not clients. I have no sympathy for ya. How long have you been in because that's sad that you wouldn't understand something like that. Yes there is a lot of work but this is a horrible example. Wedding photographers sure with clients demanding photos immediately but in the military everything is different and ya just gotta live with it. While there can be a possible nice approach where they may understand, but I would love to general see someone go up and explain this, without preparing everything they are going to say, and see where it goes.

Oh wait, I have, and they get yelled out, kicked out of the office, and promptly do as they are told. Welcome to the service.

[cheson74]

I'm a Sergeant First Class and have been in the service for longer than a day so yes I understand. You miss the whole point of the topic. It's not about complaining about the service but people having unrealistic expectations and do not know how much work is involved with photography. It doesn't matter whether it's the service or a civilian. I only used this situation with the service as an example. The same expectations is prevailent among clients, friends, family, etc.

[_aravena]

Ok, but that still leaves this as a horrible example. Like I said, there's been a few topics like this and mostly relating to weddings, as to how brides want the photos back by the time they're done with their honeymoon which is just the weekend long. :rolleyes:

But how can people not in one's shoes understand the work put into anything? That's just people and the same goes for those that once were but still don't care. Some people might wonder, "Heck, I'm a photographer and I get it done in not time, what's their problem?" Ya know.

I swear people never had a standard job like a cashier, bagger, sales, etc before because they treat everyone like **** in that position as if they can't recall the people before them doing the same. or can't remember how hard it was. Juts life, just people.

[Quad]

brides want the photos back by the time they're done with their honeymoon which is just the weekend long. :rolleyes:



See that is just missing the point they don't so much want them back after the weekend honeymoon but before the divorce by the end of the week.:lol:

Do it fast enough and you could be in for some repeat business.

[_aravena]

^Which ain't necessarily a bad thing. I'm curious if anyone on here has done multiple weddings for one person?

[cheson74]

^Which ain't necessarily a bad thing. I'm curious if anyone on here has done multiple weddings for one person?

My friend in Pennsylvania did 3 weddings for 1 person in a span of 5 years. I think the woman is on her 4th husband now. 4th one was at the court house.

He didn't mind because it was repeat business.

[Tixeon]

I've done 3 each for several brides. Makes you feel kinda like family.:lol:

[JeffreyG]

I'm a Sergeant First Class and have been in the service for longer than a day so yes I understand. You miss the whole point of the topic. It's not about complaining about the service but people having unrealistic expectations and do not know how much works involving photography. It doesn't matter whether it's the service or a civilian. I only used this situation with the service as an example. The same expectations is prevailent among clients, friends, family, etc.

It simply sucks to have your client also be in your chain of command. This is certainly a problem.

Good luck. If he likes the photos he gets from you perhaps he will be more accomodating of your workflow in the future.

[lungdoc]

I know the situation on the ground in Iraq is improving when anybody has time for this to be an issue :) - seriously though, I'm glad to see time for such things instead of just surviving. Even if you don't shoot jpg there's a nifty little free app called instant jpg from RAW - http://www.rawworkflow.com/instant-jpeg-from-raw-utility/ that extracts the embedded jpg file extremely fast - might be useful when someone needs a quick version.

[René Damkot]

As long as the "client" isn't paying, he doesn't get to make demands :p

[_aravena]

They are, his entire lifestyle. :p

[neilwood32]

I think the best way to solve the problem here is not to rush to get things done but to manage their expectations better. Tell people before a shoot that the photos will take a day or 2 to process. If they have a problem with that, they find another person to shoot!

[adblink]

watermark the hell out of them :D

can he ORDER you to turn them over? lol

[Balliolman]

Check out Michael Tapes' instant jpeg from RAW utility. Your Sgt could have a jpeg of each RAW file in literally seconds!

[ngray77]

Adobe camera raw makes the conversion easy, as does lightroom. If you're using the canon EOS utility... sorry! Download the free 30-day trial of either Adobe product.

With that said, I've gotten used to delivering. I used to be confused in my creative career that my job had something to do with what I learned in school.

I serve clients, and my expertise is the tool I use to achieve that. They don't need to know how hard it is. It's my responsibility to get agreement on the expectations and groundrules before starting work. Perhaps you don't have that opportunity to do that in the military. If I was being ordered to turn something over, I would hand over all my RAW files immediately on a CD/DVD. If he has Vista, he may be able to view them if he has his automatic updates on. I would disclaim it as 'raw footage' he may not be able to view, and that I'd be follow it up with 'digitally developed' verions in 48 hours.

[GilesGuthrie]

I think the best way to solve the problem here is not to rush to get things done but to manage their expectations better. Tell people before a shoot that the photos will take a day or 2 to process. If they have a problem with that, they find another person to shoot!

This is absolutely right. If you (the provider) set no deadline, the customer sets their own one, which may not be appropriate for you. If you set the expectation that delivery of the images will be in 'x' days, then that's something for you to deliver to, and for the customer to expect.

[bubbawillums]

I find the worst thing is when you go out for the day with friends etc and they want copies of the pics you took and want them like yesterday!
I get the right hump when they keep on at me to process the 200-300 raw files as soon as i get home and give them to them the following day!

I do lots of wedding and portrait photography as well as a day job and i spend most of my time in the eves processing the raw files for these as they take priority over everything else but they dont seem to understand this..

I'v ebought a little P&S camera now and take this out when we go somewhere,upload the jpegs to photobucket to a shared account we all have and its job done, no editing or raw conversion needed :)