Nude photos

[RockSlut]

I'd like to point out to some of the [male] users that seeing a naked male will NOT make you gay! I must say that I find it highly amusing every time some guy complains because he's seen a penis especially in a thread that clearly warns of nudity ahead.

Out of curiousity, should someone posting photos of cars specifically warn that the photos are of Fords to stop the Holden/Opel/GM (I hope I got that right!) drivers from being offended?

Or, if a user is posting a photo of a person of *insert random ethic background here* descent should they again warn in case some poor, unsuspecting racist happens to look at the photo?

I commend all users who share their work in these forums, and thank each and everyone for what they have taught me in respect of composition, lighting and choice of subject. I'd like to think that I learn a little more from each whether good or bad.

I just find it really strange that a small minority of users get so precious about seeing a naked man that they cannot appreciate the art that's being presented.

[scottbergerphoto]

You'd be surprised about how many different things that people get upset about. It doesn't make them any better or worse then the rest of us. It just makes them different in their own ways. Let's try to remember that. You don't need to denigrate others who's opinions are different then yours to make a point. There is art that I like, don't like, find disgusting, find breathtaking, understand, don't understand. That's art. To say that someone who dislikes a particular type of art is somehow inferior/mentally weak is antithetical to the concept of art.
Scott

[cmM]

You'd be surprised about how many different things that people get upset about.
Yup, I have to agree with Scott on that one.

However, rockslut deffinitely has a point there. It may sometimes be the like/dislike factor, but a lot of times we are omitting the point on this forum, which is photography. In this case, someone posts a female nude and there are 100 replies, and most of those can't see past a pair of breasts, and then someone else posts a male nude and then someone complains that it's disgusting. I agree, I'm guilty sometimes of feeling that way, but in both ways I try to look past my initial impression and judge the photography.

David is sculpted naked by Michelangelo , and the whole world considders it a masterpiece.

[Steven M. Anthony]

David is sculpted naked by Michelangelo , and the whole world considders it a masterpiece.

Well, to RockSlut's point, no--the whole world does NOT consider it a masterpiece. There is a small group of people who believe it to be disgusting. I mean, look at one of the first things Ashcroft did after becomming Atty General--he spent $8,000 having a sheet wrapped over the bare breasts of the statue of "Justice," at the Justice Department.

But we should be thankful that MOST people consider David to be a masterpiece.

[scottbergerphoto]

When you post art, you're lucky if you get any reaction good or bad. You have to be willing to take the good with the bad responses. What I find objectionable is when someone is unhappy with the responses that they get and then they attack the people who spent thier time looking and volunteering their opinions as requested. As to pictures of male genitalia, most straight men are not particularly interested in seeing it and as Kinsey noted, neither are most women.
Scott

[pcasciola]

I'd like to point out to some of the [male] users that seeing a naked male will NOT make you gay! I must say that I find it highly amusing every time some guy complains because he's seen a penis especially in a thread that clearly warns of nudity ahead.Who said seeing it makes us feel gay? It makes me lose my appetite because I consider it ugly, just like the other hole in the body that is mainly used for ridding our body of digestive waste, regardless of how creative the lighting is.

Let's say it was a nude 5 year old boy. Does the normal nude warning apply there too, because it's art? It doesn't make us pedophiles seeing it either, but I'd prefer to warned that it is not the "typical" nudity because it's something I'd rather not see at all.

In my opinion, anything that the majority of people would find offensive deserves an extra warning out of respect and courtesy to the other users.

[CyberDyneSystems]

Who defines majority? Certianly in the post in question those that took offense were by far in the minority.

If it is wrong for Rockslut to post an opinion here in his own thread, then it is equally wrong for others to post there opinions on what others choose to photograph in somone elses thread.

Bottom line,. this has been discussed at length in the past on numerous occasions.
The forum rules for posting stand as is.
Any problem that anyone has with what content is being posted in share is just that,. there problem.

Best bet is to close the thread and move on rather then to leave a negative comment.

[HJMinard]

I would like to point out that I don't think the objections are necessarily limited to male nudity. I'm not saying it hasn't happened, but I personally have never seen a female nude image on this site that included genitalia, and I have a feeling that there would be some objections if it occurred.

For what it's worth, none of it bothers me personally. Just like any shared image on this site, if I don't like it I just move on and keep my "mouth" shut (if you don't have anything nice to say ...).

[Avalonthas]

Well those who get upset that they see a naked male, basically means there only surfing the forum to see some form of (in there mind "porn"). They have no lust for photography and art and only want to see breasts. Ive noticed from what i saw all those who complained are males, and so that disappoints me -- well actually disgusts me, as it shows how traditional values still hurt our community (the global community).

But relating there insecurity to descrimination is wrong. There is a find line in definition between descrimination, stereotyping, and prejudice.

Descrimination: Unfair treatment of a person or group by acting upon the basis of prejudice or stereotype.

Prejudice: A preconceived judgment (Prejudice: pre judge) or opinion formed beforehand or without knowledge or examination of the facts.

Stereotype: An often oversimplified or biased mental picture held to characterize the typical individual of a group.

So what there doing is prejudice not a descrimination as they have not said "ur not allowed to post that here" :P (yes im picky, but i used to be a lawyer before i got a canon lol).

[ilya]

Clearly a separate forum for penises would be appropriate, don't you think

On a more serious note, we never see our finest photographers post the "upclose" in the female gender, and I'm fine with that. Tat for tit if you will, I'm totally not a prude, but do not show me penis - or vagina and try to pretend its art because you learned how to cast a shadow. Posting for the sake of getting a bunch of frenzied replies is no reason to post. imho.

Ilya

[PhotosGuy]

Out of curiousity, should someone posting photos of cars specifically warn that the photos are of Fords to stop the Holden/Opel/GM (I hope I got that right!) drivers from being offended? OH MY GOD! (Said with the insincere hope that the word "GOD" dosen't offend anyone!) I posted 2 pics of Harleys! Connotations of long haired, bearded guys drinking "Mad Dog 20-20", wearing leathers & kissing each outer to gross out the "Citizens"! I'd better go check & see if anyone was offended! Or, maybe not. Screw 'em if they have nothing better to do buy try to impose their "values" on me, & us! I've got better things to do, don't you?
Scott said, "To say that someone who dislikes a particular type of art is somehow inferior/mentally weak is antithetical to the concept of art."
True, but it's not antithetical to the concept of reality. ;)
I am so sick of the "PC Police"!
OK, I'm off my soapbox now.

[pcasciola]

I love it when the self-proclaimed artists fly off the handle. It really gives me a good laugh. 90% of the people who are surprised or offended politely ask for more of a warning, which I don't see a problem with. Nobody asked to change the forum rules, nobody said not to post it, nobody ever said Rockslut's post here was wrong, either, we just offered our opinions. Then all hell breaks loose, and we start seeing comments about "PC Police", "non-phtographers looking for porn", "looking to change forum rules", "Should warnings about Ford's be posted", etc.

If it's ok to post a picture of male genetalia, then it has to be ok to politely ask for a warning, that's all. Not a requirement, just a request. I've seen people post "(male nude warning)" before, so thank you to those who have the courtesy to add that.

[RichardtheSane]

What is wrong with just 'Nude Warning' as all the posters have done so far.

Does it really make a difference if the model is male or female?

[Belmondo]

What is wrong with just 'Nude Warning' as all the posters have done so far.

Nothing.

Does it really make a difference if the model is male or female?

It shouldn't.

[pcasciola]

I just think it's a little different when genetalia is shown, whether it be male or female, that's all. Would it be ok for a chocolate starfish photo to be posted with just a nude warning? To be completely honest, I really don't care, I just get upset when other people I know on these boards are attacked for having a line that is a little more conservative that someone elses and they express their opinion, just to have their words twisted around and are then attacked and stereotyped, while they never said "don't post it" in any instance.

But ok, I'm convinced, best idea is to just close it and move on, which I normally do.

[Bruce Watson]

I'd like to point out to some of the [male] users that seeing a naked male will NOT make you gay!

Such photos certainly don't make me gay, perhaps just mildly amused at best.................

[ilya]

What is wrong with just 'Nude Warning' as all the posters have done so far.

Does it really make a difference if the model is male or female?

Simple math!

Nude female posts 99.99% of the time don't show the koochie.

Nude male posts 99.99% of the time do show the baloney.

I'd like to avoid the latter, because 99.99% of the time I'm expecting the former. Most people looking over my shoulder don't mind the casual breast.

So yes it makes a big difference!

Therefore, it would be very appropriate to denote gender. Alternatively, keep the male pics topless.

:rolleyes:

[Sketcher]

I just find it really strange that a small minority of users get so precious about seeing a naked man that they cannot appreciate the art that's being presented. I think it more strange when 'open minded' people incriminate themselves by not being appreciative of contrary opinion. In viewing the thread in reference; I would say that the opinions and requests have been respectfully posited and that no amount of precious perspective was lost on the focus of the thread.

[Belmondo]

Simple math!

Nude female posts 99.99% of the time don't show the koochie.

Nude male posts 99.99% of the time do show the baloney.

I'd like to avoid the latter, because 99.99% of the time I'm expecting the former. Most people looking over my shoulder don't mind the casual breast.

So yes it makes a big difference!

Therefore, it would be very appropriate to denote gender. Alternatively, keep the male pics topless.

:rolleyes:

Simple irrefutable logic. :lol:

[RichardtheSane]

Simple math!

Nude female posts 99.99% of the time don't show the koochie.

Nude male posts 99.99% of the time do show the baloney.

I'd like to avoid the latter, because 99.99% of the time I'm expecting the former. Most people looking over my shoulder don't mind the casual breast.

So yes it makes a big difference!

Therefore, it would be very appropriate to denote gender. Alternatively, keep the male pics topless.

:rolleyes:

Good point

How about a genitalia warning?

(and not rolling your eyes at me :) ;) )

[ilya]

Yup. and no rollies. :D

[Avalonthas]

How about you just make an entirely different forum, for Sexy/Nude Modelling, and allow any gender, and have a specific warning of "You accept that images may include some type of nudity regardless of gender" and then if u dont wanna see a penis or breats, etc , dont go looking in that forum (usually if someone doesnt like a pic of a penis in an artistic photograph, that means they were only searching for female nudes to get off, therefore you shouldnt be here), if you want to see penis's, knock urself out in the forum as theres some good artist shots. If you like both female and male private parts, if that floats ur boat, go for it.

Simple Terms:
If you dont mind it - Enter the sexy/nude modelling forum
If you do mind it - Do not enter the sexy/nude modelling forum, and therefore stop complaining.

[D Boone]

Unfortunatly, I don't see it as a complex issue. If nudity offends you, and you don't want to see it, then when there is a nudity warning don't look. If you are too conservative to see a penis, then I think you problably shouldn't be looking at anything with a nude warning anyway. It is occasionally shocking to see someones genitals blown up bigger than lifesize, but we are all human, and should be able to appreciate the form without being emotionally damaged by it. That being said, I think a nude forum would attract undue attention to the forum from the very kind of people that most of us would like to keep away.

[Belmondo]

That being said, I think a nude forum would attract undue attention to the forum from the very kind of people that most of us would like to keep away.

What an excellent point!!! Congratulations on some very clear thinking.

There are many time when the best thing to do is nothing.

[ssim]

I would much rather see nudity of either sex rather than something may promote hatred or violence against an identifiable group.

Quite honestly, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. I don't think that we have a broken system here as long as the poster continues to put the warning in the title. By and large this has been done by most of the posters.

[Avalonthas]

What an excellent point!!! Congratulations on some very clear thinking.

There are many time when the best thing to do is nothing.

I now agree, i wasnt thinkin bout it but yea a seperate forum prolly would attract alot of the wrong crowd.

Too add my final 10 cents:

Therefore, it would be very appropriate to denote gender. Alternatively, keep the male pics topless.


Ilya, your ideologies sicken me. I cant believe people are still displaying such old habits. We live in such an open society and such a large global community. That kind of thinking gets humanity nowhere.

[Belmondo]

Ilya, your ideologies sicken me. I cant believe people are still displaying such old habits. We live in such an open society and such a large global community. That kind of thinking gets humanity nowhere.

Ilya is a good guy. He is as entitled to an opinon as anyone, especially because he often laces them with good tongue-in-cheek humor (such as in this case).

It's okay to have opinions, and it's equally okay to disagree with others. It's not good to be sickened. That suggests intolerance.

Debate is good. Intolerance is bad.

Please repeat that last sentence several times.

Thanks, all.

[ilya]

Ilya, your ideologies sicken me. I cant believe people are still displaying such old habits. We live in such an open society and such a large global community. That kind of thinking gets humanity nowhere.

Avalonthas

For your 200 posts, you managed to post only one picture of a box containing some kind of an appliance, but you did manage to produce the "background blur" you were after. Congratulations.

Therefore, I can't readily ascertain how much you know or don't know about photography.

Thus, its tough for me to come back with an appropriate response.

So I won't.

I will say that you must be pretty young since you list your daddy's equipment in the tag line. I'm not that old at 36, but I'm assuming that my snowboard is older than you. You don't know me, you know nothing of where I come from or what my beliefs are.

From that and your apparent immaturity, I doubt you really understand the words you used - "idealogies" ... "open society" ... "large global community" ... and "getting humanity nowhere".

Now if you can explain to me what exactly you meant by that sentence in a logical manner in 200 words or less, my opinion of you may change. For now, I will consider you to be a minor nuisance.

Ilya

[Belmondo]

In the name of failr play, I'll let that stand.

Now, coulld we please get back to our little discussion on anatomy?

Please?

:lol:

[pcasciola]

Well I'm glad someone said it, Ilya. I was afraid to. Anyone else notice there is only one person using these words like digust and sickening, and it's not the people asking for the genetalia warning?

[Belmondo]

Well, I'm not surprised to see the Jersey boys sticking together. :lol:

Let's get back to the discussion at hand.

Please.

No, make that Pretty please.

[ilya]

Phil - all I know is that my kids won't play on forums in their spare time (drugs and alcohol maybe, forums - no). http://www.photography-on-the.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif

Tom, my good friend, what are we really discussing in this thread. Its done. Lets lock this and start a new fresh thread about why black is faster, or art of photography, or a bus, or 8 ways to shoot 683mm, or trains, or ... you know what I mean.

Ilya

[Belmondo]

Lets lock this and start a new fresh thread about why black is faster, or art of photography, or a bus, or 8 ways to shoot 683mm, or trains, or ... you know what I mean.



Ilya (and others):

I will do precisely that if we can't get this thread back on track.**


(**railroad metaphor.....a personal indulgence :lol: :p ).

[vcutag]

So. How 'bout that local generic sports team, eh?

[Claire]

I'm not that keen on seeing genitalias (?) in pics on these forums period. Be it male or female. If you've shot nudes of someone, that's fine to post, but within the thread choose an image that doesn't show it all. Then maybe a link to your website with more pictures. I don't care if you have pics showing everything on your website, but many access these forums at work etc. I'd rather make a choice to check the rest of the nudes in the privacy of my home.

Oh, and no it certainly doesn't make you gay to see a man naked, similar that me looking at (and appreciating) CharlesU's pictures certainly doesn't make me a lesbian. Looking at a pic of a horse doesn't make me a horse either... ;)

Actually, thinking about it. This is a photo forum and whenever Charles posts his gorgeous model shots, there are many more "wow, she's hot!", "I envy you", "omg, what's her phone number?" type of comments than "wow, love the lighting and posing". Granted, there are lots of those too, along with the deserved "they're technically perfect shots!".

My point still being that when these gorgeous models are shown, many on the forum end up drooling and making tons of comments based upon the girl's look. If someone posts a nude male pic the men on the forum can't come up with these type of comments as they're not attracted to the subject, but they should certainly be able to comment on poses, lighting etc. Actually, they should be SO MUCH MORE capable of concentrating on the photographic aspects now that they're not thinking "lovely tits". ;)

[Ikinaa]

For those who haven't noticed one of the features of the forum :

When you leave the mouse-cursor over a thread-name, you get a hint.

The thread which is talked about here for example shows as hint the following : 'Experimenting on myself last night and here are some of the...'
That together with the title 'Self-portraits...bodyscaping *one nude*' and the name of the author could give you a hint that there are nude male pictures in the thread.
That gives a pretty good warning for the people that don't like 'male nudity'

On the other hand, when opening the thread, I don't see any pictures. I see links to the pictures and more explanation. No one is forced to look at them.

[Ikinaa]

Just one question : do you guys take your bath in the dark and have no mirrors in the bathroom? :cool:

[Ikinaa]

...
Actually, thinking about it. This is a photo forum and whenever Charles posts his gorgeous model shots, there are many more "wow, she's hot!", "I envy you", "omg, what's her phone number?" type of comments than "wow, love the lighting and posing". Granted, there are lots of those too, along with the deserved "they're technically perfect shots!".

...


Aren't people giving these comments (not Claire's but the ones she related) disrespectful towards the models? Are the models really only body? They're people. Charles makes great pictures, but he doesn't post them for a beauty contest but for the photographical value of them.
Charles' Art of Lightning and photography is great.
What must a girl on the pictures think when she comes to this forum and reads comments like that? How does she feel?
I wouldn't feel well...

[Mike H]

... If you've shot nudes of someone, that's fine to post, but within the thread choose an image that doesn't show it all. Then maybe a link to your website with more pictures. I don't care if you have pics showing everything on your website, but many access these forums at work etc.

I agree. There definitely needs to be a "heads up" if there are nudes in a post or if the links in the post lead that way. It's quite serious business depending on where you work. I've seen people lose jobs and major promotions for accessing nudes over the web during their lunch breaks. Whatever anyone thinks about whether that is fair or reasonable, it happens.

Mike H

[Claire]

In all honesty, I haven't seen the thread discussed here. Will do a search now, but I know we've had this discussion before. That's why I gave my 0.02.

[Claire]

Aren't people giving these comments (not Claire's but the ones she related) disrespectful towards the models? Are the models really only body? They're people. Charles makes great pictures, but he doesn't post them for a beauty contest but for the photographical value of them.
Charles' Art of Lightning and photography is great.
What must a girl on the pictures think when she comes to this forum and reads comments like that? How does she feel?
I wouldn't feel well...

Are the models really not more than body? We all know they are and I'm sure Charles can testify majority of them are very nice and bright women. Granted some might feel a bit bad hearing/reading comments as in my example, I doubt they feel that bad. As I said, they're bright girls. They know that posing for glamour shots etc will have men drool over them and those kind of comments will be uttered. They have been through all those comments before and I doubt they care much if it's within this context, it's kinda part of the job somehow. I very much doubt they'd accept it equally well though if they're walking down the street as a private person, not their "model-self".

"Charles makes great pictures, but he doesn't post them for a beauty contest but for the photographical value of them. "
Yes, but c'mon his models are beautiful. It's hard to overlook that! And he brings out the best in them. I usually love the way he gets them to play to the camera. At the same time, if it's not about also showing their physical beauty shouldn't he just stick to Fine Art B&W nudes instead? Or fashion photography? The genre he and the girls have chosen to work within is about sex. Who are we kidding?

The only reason I put those "wow, she's hot" examples in my post was because they at times outweigh the "I love the contrast and pose" comments from the male viewers. The male viewers are naturally a bit ehm...distracted by the model. Pretty much the same way I'd be *cough* distracted by a hot male model posed under a shower head with water streaming down him... Ooops, sorry got carried away! :lol:

When I look at Charle's images I don't feel distracted by the girl's physical beauty as much as male viewers. Instead I can concentrate on appreciating Charle's photographic work. That's why I believe male viewers on this board should be able to critique male nudes well; they won't be "distracted" by any physical attraction to the model.

Some other thoughts hit me too. The person who lately has posted male nudes used himself as a model. Does that make us viewers react more? Does the fact that it's the photographer himself posing making us feel the image is too private? Is it harder to think of the person in the image as only a model as weknow it's the poster? What if it had been a female taking pictures of herself? What if the photographer was female but the nude was of a male?

Sorry for the long post!
/Claire

[Volatile]

I agree with Claire, thank you for sharing your perspective.

[charlesu]

Are the models really not more than body? We all know they are and I'm sure Charles can testify majority of them are very nice and bright women. Granted some might feel a bit bad hearing/reading comments as in my example, I doubt they feel that bad. As I said, they're bright girls. They know that posing for glamour shots etc will have men drool over them and those kind of comments will be uttered. They have been through all those comments before and I doubt they care much if it's within this context, it's kinda part of the job somehow. I very much doubt they'd accept it equally well though if they're walking down the street as a private person, not their "model-self".

"Charles makes great pictures, but he doesn't post them for a beauty contest but for the photographical value of them. "
Yes, but c'mon his models are beautiful. It's hard to overlook that! And he brings out the best in them. I usually love the way he gets them to play to the camera. At the same time, if it's not about also showing their physical beauty shouldn't he just stick to Fine Art B&W nudes instead? Or fashion photography? The genre he and the girls have chosen to work within is about sex. Who are we kidding?

The only reason I put those "wow, she's hot" examples in my post was because they at times outweigh the "I love the contrast and pose" comments from the male viewers. The male viewers are naturally a bit ehm...distracted by the model. Pretty much the same way I'd be *cough* distracted by a hot male model posed under a shower head with water streaming down him... Ooops, sorry got carried away! :lol:

When I look at Charle's images I don't feel distracted by the girl's physical beauty as much as male viewers. Instead I can concentrate on appreciating Charle's photographic work. That's why I believe male viewers on this board should be able to critique male nudes well; they won't be "distracted" by any physical attraction to the model.

Some other thoughts hit me too. The person who lately has posted male nudes used himself as a model. Does that make us viewers react more? Does the fact that it's the photographer himself posing making us feel the image is too private? Is it harder to think of the person in the image as only a model as weknow it's the poster? What if it had been a female taking pictures of herself? What if the photographer was female but the nude was of a male?

Sorry for the long post!
/Claire

Great thougths Claire and in your ealier post as well. I agree with much of what you are saying. Though I do take exception about my glamour images simply being about sex. I suppose on some levels that is true but I also see that coming thru in much of the advertising and editorial work in our mainstream media. In fact, sometimes I can't believe where it is being used (to sell stereo gear, for example). But it's not simply about sex as in something we are trying to bring to the image in a graphic or vulgar way. Yes, I want a glam image to be sexy and the model to be appealing. That's one thing that separates glam from fine-art where there's usually less emphasis on physical charm and more on introspection, etc.

And I believe that there can be a cross-over of styles. I like to think that one day some of my glamour work will be considered art (if not FINE art) at least artistic. Well executed and containing some emotional impact other than "she's hot". I know I see what I would like to accomplish in the work of people like Horst, Newton, Ritts, etc (Note: I am NOT compaing my work to their work, merely pointing out 3 artists that transcended and mixed glam and art--often into their editorial work).

As for the models I work with. Yes, most of them are incredible young women. Most are in college or graduate school and have good heads on their shoulders. Others are professionals or working people who are doing modeling for self-expression, extra income, etc. I work with people I respect and who respect themselves. They are wonderful people and they bring much more than physical charms to a shoot with them.

[Ikinaa]

I don't know if I was misunderstood:
* I didn't say that the Photographer didn't respect the model : Charles is a fine example: Always some words to go with the picture and how the girl is his friend, not only someone he pays for posing...
* It's ok to like nude pictures and the often perfect bodies of the models (I like that too), but expressions like 'she's hot' or others are IMO a bit disrespectful: That's viewing (IMO of course) the models only as flesh, not them being part of an overall picture. Whereas I agree that if the picture would be sold as porn that would be the purpose of the picture, but an erotic (art) picture is more.

[Cadenza]

I'd like to point out to some of the [male] users that seeing a naked male will NOT make you gay!

And even if it did make you gay, what's so
bad about being gay? ??? Some of my best
friends... etc., etc.

That said, it does amuse me that it is the guys
who are complaining about seeing male nudes
in this thread.

Don't you see yourself naked in the bathroom
everyday? In the gym lockers? Don't you take
a bath everyday? So what's the problem? Afraid
it would awaken latent homosexuality?

It would be slightly more understandable if it
were the women complaining. This is the line
of argument that people used to censor
Robert Mapplethorpe in the U.S.

Should ethnographic nudes carry the warning
as well? i.e., pictures of native South American
tribes where the men let it all "hang out," in
full view of women and children.

[ilya]

I've never seen so many guys defend their rights to see snapshots of dicks with such passion ... I'm not passing judgement, I just find it amusing, much in the same way I find political correctness amusing. Because you know, once you start putting warnings on penises what could come next ?? :D

[Ikinaa]

I've never seen so many guys defend their rights to see snapshots of dicks with such passion ... I'm not passing judgement, I just find it amusing, much in the same way I find political correctness amusing. Because you know, once you start putting warnings on penises what could come next ?? :D

I don't know for the others, but I'm not trying to defend the right to see snapshots of dicks, but more defend the right of the people wanting to show their pics.

Voltaire once said :
"I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."

[charlesu]

I've never seen so many guys defend their rights to see snapshots of dicks with such passion ... I'm not passing judgement, I just find it amusing, much in the same way I find political correctness amusing. Because you know, once you start putting warnings on penises what could come next ?? :D

I understand from the smiley at the end that this was offered in jest. However, I don't think it's appropriate.

[CyberDyneSystems]

I've never seen so many guys defend their rights to see snapshots of dicks with such passion ... I'm not passing judgement, I just find it amusing, much in the same way I find political correctness amusing. Because you know, once you start putting warnings on penises what could come next ?? :D

If we (the forum) demand that a warning be applied to discrimate as to whether the nude image (allready labled with a warining about nudity) ..include more specifics like female vs. male,. simply because some people find photos of one gender more distastefull than another,. then why draw the line there? How do we justify drawing the line there?

What if some poeple find nude Asians distastefull,. should the forum insists on an "asian" warning? What about Latin? Black? Jewish? Anglo?

This forum remains a multinational one,.. with multinational sensibilies about what is appropose, and what is not. A balancing act to say the least. Clearly there are many cultures where Images like Charles displays are perfectly acceptable,. but keep in mind there are dozens of cultures where Charles' images would be a sure fire guarantee of a direct route to purgatory. The forum is happy to have members with such differing values,. so long as they all are ready to get along and not use the forum as a platform to impose there values on others.

Last I checked it was a multi gender forum as well.

[D Boone]

Unfortunatly, most men... Myself included, are visually stimulated sexual creatures. Admitedly, it is hard to look at Charles' or some other very advanced photographers work on this forum and not see it through ...ahem... horny eyes... When some people look at a nude post, and see a penis, they feel assaulted. I understand that, but I also think that most of the people who would be offended viewing this are the same ones who say *got milk* in replies to a post of a woman with nice mammary glands. What seperates men from the animals is that we can control our instincts, and control our emotional reponses to stimuli. Some of us forget that, and some of us ignore that. Nudity is around us at every turn. We all see it everyday, even if its just ourselves, and if you want to make statements about the beauty of a model, I think that is acceptable, but the cat calls give men a bad name. As far as warnings, other than *Nudity* , I think preferecing it by what kind is foolish. I am not sure my thoughts came out right, but I am outta time here to keep typing!

[Bluelens]

Who would have thought that out of three pictures I posted that one of them would stir up so much debate. I admit that I have been watching this thread while staying silent. I think that there have been some wonderful comments here that are far better then I could hope to write-up concerning this "issue". With that said, I feel I should speak up (if only a little and in the shadow of some wonderful comments) since I am involved in this. I sometimes get a little more ranty then I plan so keep that in mind as you read this.

I understand the need for a *nudity* marking on thread titles. I understand that there are some guys that don't want to see another man naked in photography. That is fine. Everyone has his/her own preference in what they like to see and trying to convince them of the error in their opinions is wrong.

Yes like I posted in the much talked about thread, art is art and nudity is nudity, but that doesn't mean that you have to be just as accepting of male nudity as you are female nudity. What I would hope is that if you are able to overcome your initial knee-jerk reaction to seeing a penis versus a breast, that you would be able to jump into your photographer-eye and comment on the technical/artistic aspects of the image. But, if you are unable to do that, no hard feelings.

I do think it would be in good taste that if you see a photo, much like what was posted, that you could at least take an adult response to it and just simply not post anything. The non-constructive comments regarding the personal reaction because they were hoping for the opposite sex exposed parts don’t seem to add to the discussion.

I understand the comments that tend to pop-up in the female glamour posts. If women did the same thing to shots of guys then that too would be ok too, but as long as there was some sort of follow-up with photographic comments from the person, I don’t see the issue there. It is when we get carried away and are looking at the images as merely eye-candy for a quick thrill that the line is broken between photographer viewing and some person looking because “there is nudity under in that link…sweet!” that i think is not helpful to the photographer and their pursuit of a great image.

[Claire]

I'm still waiting for Charles to post a nice nudie shot of a male. :D

[roanjohn]

What offends me the most is seeing pictures of nude birds!!! Seagulls especially!!! I mean, can't they put thier pants on before going out in the wild or somethin'??!!??

Ro1 :-)

.........I know, I did not add anything new to this topic..........

[PhotosGuy]

What offends me the most is seeing pictures of nude birds!!! Seagulls especially!!! I mean, can't they put thier pants on before going out in the wild or somethin'??!!?? That would make it too difficult to dive-bomb photographers!

[charlesu]

I'm still waiting for Charles to post a nice nudie shot of a male. :D

You missed it!!!

[ilya]

The other side of my statement (with smilie) was that we belabored this way too long. Its very simple. Girl pictures show breasts, boy photos show penises.

BUT

At end of day, I actually don't really care if you put a warning or not, I think this topic is overanalyzed and overdiscussed.

I do find several statements just plain silly, and thus I get sucked into this discussion and then I have to kick myself for becoming involved in something that doesn't add any value to my life -

- the post that started this thread - alleging homophobia.
- assertions that penis photos are somehow "art" because I got to tell you - 99.9% of them are not, and its damn hard to make a shot of a penis art, so its not for the skill its for the subject matter difficulty.

Here is something that will upset a few folks - I think that folks who post photos of genitalia, whether MALE OR FEMALE ARE LOOKING FOR ATTENTION. That's my opinion, feel free to disagree, but this is my last post in this overused thread

Here's a bunch of smilies to denote that I still like and respect everyone -
http://www.photography-on-the.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.photography-on-the.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.photography-on-the.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.photography-on-the.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif

[Tom W]

Am I such a gearhead that I'm having trouble understanding why a thread entitled "nude photos" is vastly more popular than one that is entitled "D2x vs. 1D Mk II"? :)

[Claire]

Tom,
I'm posting in this thread because I don't have the cash to get the 1D Mk II! ;)

Charles,
What?! You posted nude men? When?? *running to do a search*

[roanjohn]

Am I such a gearhead that I'm having trouble understanding why a thread entitled "nude photos" is vastly more popular than one that is entitled "D2x vs. 1D Mk II"? :)

Cuz most people buy cameras in the hope of taking nude pics.......NUDE BIRD PICS!!! So yes, the camera is just secondary to the main plot!!!

.............:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Ro1

[flyfishnj]

Bluelens - I certainly contributed to some of the debate don't you think? My comment was meant to be sorta funny 'cause I never saw a pecker before on this forum. I have no problems with what you posted and actually took a second look to judge the artistic value and lighting techniques that you used. They are original and artistic

I sat back too and watched posters make some snap judgements that were ridiculous. That was way more entertaining. Perhaps my "knee jerk reaction" would have been the same if it were a beaver shot. I don't know, since I've never seen one of them on this forum either.

Keep in mind, I've never passed up a charlesu thread and quite frankly that was what I was expecting. Do I view all the nude threads? You bet! Do I look at these pictures in two ways, You bet! First from a voyuer point of view and then I do look at the lighting. I'm a guy and a photographer (I was a guy first).

I agree with you that the responses to nude pics are sometimes unproductive. "She is hot", "Can I hold your Lights?". I don't see a bunch of "That's inappropriate" comments to them. Actually, when I posted pics of my daughter in the critique section, I got freaked out by all the "She's cute", "How beautiful" and only got one productive critique. I stopped posting pictures of my daughters looking for constructive critisism.

So that being said (perhaps I rambled a bit), at least this was a diversion from X Factor, Crop Factor and my new term:

Partially
Effective
Narrowed
Image
Sensor

[Ikinaa]

Am I such a gearhead that I'm having trouble understanding why a thread entitled "nude photos" is vastly more popular than one that is entitled "D2x vs. 1D Mk II"? :)

Why discuss "D2x vs. 1D Mk II"? Everybody knows the answer to this for sure.... :lol:

[Raj]

I read each & every post in this thread with my eyes glued to monitor & now my eye's burn :-( I never browse nude posts ( & so I am grateful to people who indicate this in subject) but I found this thread interesting !

What I dnt get is why to make it so complicated ? ... If some members are offended by a particular taste then it dosent takes a lof of effort for other members to mention it in subject as a courtesy to them (some do already, even for things like 56 K warning !). Afterall same members help us out in other situations. Through this thread we found out that some members dont like male nudity, so why not simple mention it in subject (... just hit a few keys more. Its same as simply mentioning nudity to me... ) instead of starting a war bringing in gender discrimination, acceptance. intolerance, human rights, geography & innocent birds & so on ... :-)

I am a very junior member & find wonderful people here since I joined. I am sure we can be a bit more courteous to our fellow members & have peace. Post wahetver you want, just mention it clearly like "what are these red dots in the sky :-) ". Who cares why roanjohn doesnt like nude birds or why japanese started eating with chop sticks or why I get underpaid :-) just type a few more words for your friends :-)

Just imagine how many such few character warnings could have been appended to *standard* one's using the characters typed in this thread :-)

[PhotosGuy]

I hated soccer, volleyball, baseball and even golf. Ever since then, I've had an attitude about things like that. It's like, keep your balls to yourselves. ROTFLMAO!!!

[pcasciola]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

BlooDog's post was the best one in this whole thread, imho.

[Tom W]

Bloo Dog Sayeth:

I do, think, however, that the guys who can remember the image long enough to complain at great length about it might have a problem of some sort.

I think you inadvertently discovered what may be the root of the problem - they're remembering the image "long enough". ;)

[Claire]

I think you inadvertently discovered what may be the root of the problem - they're remembering the image "long enough". ;)

...while we girls aren't complaining due to not remembering it long enough...;)

[DwightMcCann]

I'm new here ... where are all these pudenda showing up? How in heavens name did genitalia get such a bad reputation in the first place? I agree, the offendees should have a chance to know there is risk in viewing an image, but nude is nude and I think they should 'assume the risk' ... after all, they could avert their eyes rather than studying the fine detail. :)

[Citizensmith]

I now agree, i wasnt thinkin bout it but yea a seperate forum prolly would attract alot of the wrong crowd.


Yeah, fecking Nikon users.

I don't mind what I see on here so long as it itsn't gratuitous. A find created (as opposed to documentary) images of violence very distasteful, but nudity I'm fine with.

Sure I don't find photos of some guys dick pleasing in the same way I find the female body pleasing. However, a well crafted photo of a dick is still a well crafted photo. A crappy photo of the worlds most perfect breasts is still amazing.. I mean is still a crappy photo. The subject and the craft are not connected. The nudity warnings are a must particularly for those of us who may spend our lunch our checking up on things. I feel any detail beyond that isn't necessary.

[Persian-Rice]

What the hell is wrong with nudity? I mean, nakedness is not sex, nakedness is not bad, just society's ignorance that thinks it is.

The genitalia, breasts or whatever you can think of is just another body part, no different then an arm or a leg. Looking at a guys penis wont make you gay, if you are gay, you are and you need to live with it. If that is the case, looking at any man is bad since well that penis is just a small part of the rest.

People think sex is bad, nudity is bad, this is bad, that is bad. We are the same as any other mammal, just more far more advanced. Monkeys reproduce, we reproduce, they eat, we eat, they defecate, we defecate, they play, we play, they groom, we groom. We even have the same body structure, inside and out. We do everything they do in more detail. Do you see them wearing GAP? does anyone even complain?

I am not a nudist and I am not gay, but I will tell you one thing, the world is filled with prunes and well I wont even get into religion..........................

[Andy_T]

www.http:/ Bloo_Dognaked/not-a-pretty-site.com


I think the link is not working :cry:

I agree with the rest of what you said, though :lol:

Somehow, this reminds me of a saying I once heard about the U.S. attitude towards nudity and sex:

'If a man would take off his dresses, grab two UZI guns and go out shooting in the city streets, surely some people would call the police and complain:
Oh my god, there's a NAKED man out there!!! '

Best regards,
Andy

[Claire]

Somehow, this reminds me of a saying I once heard about the U.S. attitude towards nudity and sex:

'If a man would take off his dresses, grab two UZI guns and go out shooting in the city streets, surely some people would call the police and complain:
Oh my god, there's a NAKED man out there!!! '


:lol: :lol: Sorry, this sounds so sterotypically true to a foreigner! I keep forgetting nipples and breast feeding images are considered indecent in US media.

[Belmondo]

Andy and Claire:

I hope you will find it in your hearts to forgive me for my lack of enlightenment. I often curse myself for having had the bad luck to be born in such a backward place. :lol: :lol:

I would happily move to Sweden and/or Germany where nipples are routinely exposed, but they won't let me bring my Uzi.

The breast feeding debate is a non-starter in my book. It's kids I'm opposed to. No kids, no breast feeding. Problem solved. ;)

[Claire]

Belmondo, you're forgiven. ;) After all, America is the place that shurns out the most porn movies, host reality shows such as "The Swan", takes my tiny Swiss army knife because it's considered a weapon - but gives me steel cuttlery on the plane, and gave us Paris Hilton and Pamela Anderson. America can still be corrupted to show nipples! :D

[Belmondo]

America can still be corrupted to show nipples! :D

Well, that's a relief. Guess I don't have to move after all.
:lol:

They say that perception is reality.

I sure hope reality TV is not the perception. Most of it is an absolute embarrassment. :oops: :oops: (at least as far as what it says about us culturally).

[Claire]

Bloo Dog,

I personally love the fact that I have to fill in those green cards before landing in US.
"Are you travelling here on a) business b) pleasure?" Hm, pleasure.
"Have you ever commited a crime and been convicted?" Of course not!
"Are you planning on committing a crime while in the US?" Yes, I'm planning to plant myself as an intern at the White House, shag Mrs Bush and shoot Mr Bush.
:rolleyes:

I wouldn't mind being a Hilton heiress. The money would be fun and I'd love to run a huge hotel chain. Pamela Anderson actually has a very nice face if you scrub off all that make up. Lovely eyes.

Nipples shouldn't be brought on plane flights? Good you reminded me, I'll leave them at home before the trip.

[Andy_T]

Haha,

you guys crack me up!

Best regards,
Andy