Dust on my 3rd 1DsMKII's sensor

[HKFEVER]

This is my third 1DsMKII and guess what, I found some dust when I shot some clear sky (only 197 picture from this new 1DsMKII).

Look at this attachment:
- 100corp at f/22 with auto level in PS.
- the jpg show a lot of dust and a fine line in the middle from left to right.
- try to clean it with copperhills, but stay the same.

Pure bad luck or what.:evil:

[kb244]

Thats a bad deal of dust cluster. By the way how does Copperhills work. Also those seem to be some very defined specks, i wonder if they're dust at all or worse yet some kind of dip in the lowpass filter. I also know yer probally gona hate having canon exchange or clean it and only have it come back still dirty, also may I ask, are you by chance a smoker?

[HKFEVER]

I have checked my 1st picture with this 1DsMKII, same!
I don't smoke at all.
I tried copperhill, but those dust and line stay the same!
I know Canon's sensor cleaning is worst and will cost me USD50.00 and 7 working days.
Just wonder will Canon replace this almost USD8000 camera ( I only have it less than 2 weeks and less than 200 pictures)..

[kb244]

They might, considering the dust and line specks arnt moving, worse case senario, its under the low pass filter. Would constitute as a defect.

I can imagine its a pain in the ass, going thru three 8,000$ cameras, are you getting them from the same place ( maybe they got a bad batch ).

[Longwatcher]

I have to ask what lens you are using, because I am not able to figure out how you could have that effect if it was the sensor or low-pass filter. If you have cleaned the sensor multiple times then it would have to be either defective sensor or the lens has some dust in it. Have you used other lenses and the dust spots still show up in the same place every time. If so then back to Canon it should go.

I once had to go through 4 hard drives to get one that worked. I told the company that sold them to me that if the 4th failed in less then two weeks like the others I wanted my money back. They sent me a different/better HD worked great until I replaced the computer. Since there is no better camera. If you are going on your fourth then arrange to have Canon physically verify your camera before shipment.

I had Columbia House do this once for me when going for disk #3 of a DVD I had ordered that were defective. It later turned out that almost all of the DVD's in the first run had been defective. But they physically checked it out before shipping it and I was quite happy to recieve it already opened in this case. Of course I know how much I ordered from them (a lot) so that may have been a factor.

[HKFEVER]

The first shoot was with 24-70mm f/2.8L, and the most updated shoot are from 50mm f/1.4. Both the same result with dust and line.

All 3 1DsMKII were bought from different dealer.

Will call the dealer and Canon see what's going on. By my location is Hong Kong, our replacement or return policy is only 7 days.

[blackviolet]

i'm just a little curious... you buy two 1Dsmk2 bodies, sell one of them for a loss in Frankfurt, then buy another one?? and you've had dust problems on all three... are you in the import/export business?

[HKFEVER]

i'm just a little curious... you buy two 1Dsmk2 bodies, sell one of them for a loss in Frankfurt, then buy another one?? and you've had dust problems on all three... are you in the import/export business?

I bought one and my wife bought another one for me (she though the one I have is 1DMKII), the first one I sold it in Frankfurt with three tiny dust in at the upper right corner with a loss. And second one with a little bit profit (but this 2nd one, I only tried couple shoots and did not check with dust).

The third one arrive on Feb-08-05, I shoots 2 sky pictures at the first day as a record, but did not check the dust untill yestarday.

Yes, I am in import, export & manufacturing business, but not in camera.

If I can general enough traffic in camera part, I may get into this. As you know Hong Kong always get the new product fast and cheap.

[Tom W]

That's a lot of dust. A weird multicolored look as well!

Here's what Copper Hill did for me:

http://www.pbase.com/photosbytom/copperhill_sensor_clean

[HKFEVER]

That's a lot of dust. A weird multicolored look as well!

Here's what Copper Hill did for me:

http://www.pbase.com/photosbytom/copperhill_sensor_clean

I shoot this picture with a piece of white A3 paper. 100% corp with 13 X ??cm area,
auto level in PS, then save as web to below 100K.

Tried Copper Hill but not working.

[Tom W]

I shoot this picture with a piece of white A3 paper. 100% corp with 13 X ??cm area,
auto level in PS, then save as web to below 100K.

Tried Copper Hill but not working.

If you used Copper Hill and followed the directions closely, then it would seem to me that the dust is between the microlens/AA filter and the actual sensor.

What was your exposure level - shutter speed and ISO - it looks like a very long shutter - it looks noisy.

I'd send it back to Canon - you might want to establish an e-mail conversation with Tech support to show them the dust and the line. That doesn't look right.

[BearSummer]

Hi Hkfever,

yep it looks bad, however dust is something you need to find a good way to deal with. I do seem to remember that canon say that you clean you sensor at your own risk and that any damage will invalidate your waranty. With that in mind, the bad news is, that line looks like a scratch to me, you might be lucky and find it is just a smear, but it sounds kinda resistant to cleaning. I would talk to your local canon depo and see what they can do for you, supply them with your dust photos and see if they can help.

all the best

BearSummer

[HKFEVER]

If you used Copper Hill and followed the directions closely, then it would seem to me that the dust is between the microlens/AA filter and the actual sensor.

What was your exposure level - shutter speed and ISO - it looks like a very long shutter - it looks noisy.

I'd send it back to Canon - you might want to establish an e-mail conversation with Tech support to show them the dust and the line. That doesn't look right.

ISO100, TV 1.5.

I have contacted the dealer and the Canon sales will reply us in next Monday.

Hopefully, they will replace it. If not , I need to go throught all the necessary channel to get my fair share.

Canon's tech is not important in Hong Kong. Our dealer told me that if the sales can't promise the replacment, I have to go direct to thier local Japanese Manager to fight for it......:evil:

For sure, I will not settle for repair... I want replacement....

I hate this I just save up enough for the 300 f/2.8. And now I have to wait for Canon's decision.

[HKFEVER]

Hi Hkfever,

yep it looks bad, however dust is something you need to find a good way to deal with. I do seem to remember that canon say that you clean you sensor at your own risk and that any damage will invalidate your waranty. With that in mind, the bad news is, that line looks like a scratch to me, you might be lucky and find it is just a smear, but it sounds kinda resistant to cleaning. I would talk to your local canon depo and see what they can do for you, supply them with your dust photos and see if they can help.

all the best

BearSummer

Luckly, I have took 2 sky shoots at the first day when I received the camare for record. To prove the camera came with that line and the dust.

[HKFEVER]

[QUOTE=Tom W]What was your exposure level - shutter speed and ISO - it looks like a very long shutter - it looks noisy.
QUOTE]

The funny colour noise cames from auto level in PS.

Without auto level, it is very hard to see the line.

[Tom W]

[QUOTE=Tom W]What was your exposure level - shutter speed and ISO - it looks like a very long shutter - it looks noisy.
QUOTE]

The funny colour noise cames from auto level in PS.

Without auto level, it is very hard to see the line.

OK, I think that is part of your problem - you're shooting something plain white - you hit auto-levels in PS and it does its best to find contrast, but in doing so, it changes the image by an unrealistic amount. Its amplifying imperfections that are normally too small to see in normal shooting.

Try your shot again, but without using autolevels - let the contrast lie where it is. This will show the dust as it may appear in normal use.

[FlipsidE]

I am begining to question Canon's quality control on DSLR's these days. I went through 6 DRebels before I got one that didn't have something wrong with it.

Here's the thread concerning the faults of those DRebs if you are interested in reading it. (http://www.photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=45494)

FlipsidE

[HKFEVER]

[QUOTE=HKFEVER]

OK, I think that is part of your problem - you're shooting something plain white - you hit auto-levels in PS and it does its best to find contrast, but in doing so, it changes the image by an unrealistic amount. Its amplifying imperfections that are normally too small to see in normal shooting.

Try your shot again, but without using autolevels - let the contrast lie where it is. This will show the dust as it may appear in normal use.

I knew PS will do that, and I did that just to show the extreme. In PC without autolevel, the dust cluster is visible but the line is hard to see.

But when you doing product shoots, then the dust cluster and the line will show up.

[HKFEVER]

I am begining to question Canon's quality control on DSLR's these days. I went through 6 DRebels before I got one that didn't have something wrong with it.

Here's the thread concerning the faults of those DRebs if you are interested in reading it. (http://www.photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=45494)

FlipsidE

Canon's QC sucks, in 2 brand new $7XXX DSLR:
- 1st 1DsMKII has 3 dust that can't be remove at the UR corner,
- 2nd 1DsMKII, I did not check it but sold.
- 3rd 1DsMKII, so far after 198 shoots, I found 2 hot pixel, a lot of dust that can't be removed, and a line that can figure out what is that and why it is there.

[tim]

If they don't replace it, talk to your credit card company and cancel the payment. You did buy using a credit card, right?

[HKFEVER]

If they don't replace it, talk to your credit card company and cancel the payment. You did buy using a credit card, right?

Unfortunately, I paid by cash.

In Hong Kong, this kind of product is very price competitive, so dealer will only accept cash or with 2-3% more for credit card.

[Rudix]

You are really having bad luck ! Non of my 4 1DSmk2's or 5 1Dmk2's had dust or any other QC problems ! Same goes for the 10 20D's I have bought for business use.......

Good luck !
Rudi

[Redbird_xo]

Sorry to hear that you are going through all these hassles. I am a bit surprised to hear that you used cash to purchase such expensive camera. I thought merchants in HK usually only charge service charges on credit card for small dollar amount purchases. For example, I bought most of my consumer-grade gears at Wing Shing, at which VISA card is always welcomed.

Wish you better luck on the fourth one (hope you don't need to go down that road).

[HKFEVER]

Sorry to hear that you are going through all these hassles. I am a bit surprised to hear that you used cash to purchase such expensive camera. I thought merchants in HK usually only charge service charges on credit card for small dollar amount purchases. For example, I bought most of my consumer-grade gears at Wing Shing, at which VISA card is always welcomed.

Wish you better luck on the fourth one (hope you don't need to go down that road).

Wing Shing is charging HKD63,000.00 for 1DSMKII. But where I bought is only HKD56,000.00.

Somg items in Wing Shing is lower, but some are very high.

With HKD63,000.00 you don't have to wait, you can pick one up anytime.

[HKFEVER]

You are really having bad luck ! Non of my 4 1DSmk2's or 5 1Dmk2's had dust or any other QC problems ! Same goes for the 10 20D's I have bought for business use.......

Good luck !
Rudi

I Know, I always have bad luck.

Most of the time, I wait in line for banking or McDonald even just have 2 people in front of me. I will end up take longer time than other lines than have 5 or 6 people.

[HKFEVER]

You are really having bad luck ! Non of my 4 1DSmk2's or 5 1Dmk2's had dust or any other QC problems ! Same goes for the 10 20D's I have bought for business use.......

Good luck !
Rudi

Wow, you buy alot of DSLR. I thought I bought a lot of film cameras.

I have no problem with my previous D70, 300D, 1DMKII. But just this 1DSMKII.....

[Redbird_xo]

Wow, you buy alot of DSLR. I thought I bought a lot of film cameras.

I have no problem with my previous D70, 300D, 1DMKII. But just this 1DSMKII.....

It's the "S". Stay away from S-related stuff for Feng Shui sake. ;)

[HKFEVER]

I have a big arguement with Canon's tech and ass. manager for over 5 hrs today. Try to prove my 1DsMKII came with dust cluster and line on the sensor of the AA filter.

But their tech just won't come out for discussion. Finally I have to show mad to ask for the manager.

Guess what the tech in Canon centre say on the phone (I was in the service centre, the tech just didn't want to come out):
- Without looking at the camera, the tech said you have clean the sensor.
- The best we can do may be change the filter for you if we can't clean the dust off the AA filter.
- We may not have AA filter in stock, and don't know when it will arrive.

I was so mad that, start making sence in the centre. Finally thier ass. manager came out.

Then I said:
- I have the first 2 pictures to prove the camera came with those dust cluster and line.
- I only have the camera for less than 2 week, less that 250 shoots. As long as I can prove the camera came with line on the sensor (factory defect), you should replace the camera.
- You don't have clean room in HK, you may end up have more dust between the AA filter and sensor after the replacement of AA Filter.
- I have spent so much money with Canon gears, and I perpare to go all the way to get my fair share.

I saw the recreation of the ass. manager's face after he saw the pictures (guilty). He said the upper manager will have decision within 2 days for any further action (repair or replacement).

I will wait and see.

[Redbird_xo]

Just to play the devil's advocate here...
Have you thought of the possibility that your dealer gave you a used unit instead of a brand new one? The HKD7000 discount represents about 11% off the MSRP. The exorbitant discount seems unusual for the world's top 35mm DSLR?

[HKFEVER]

Just to play the devil's advocate here...
Have you thought of the possibility that your dealer gave you a used unit instead of a brand new one? The HKD7000 discount represents about 11% off the MSRP. The exorbitant discount seems unusual for the world's top 35mm DSLR?

It may be, But I bought 2 at this price. That many used unit lay around in HK? In fact I check everything: packaging, focusing screen, prism, manual, original Canon's delivery bag, etc... Just too lazy to check the picture of the first shoot. Otherwise, I will return it the first day.

If I am a member of Canon's CPS, I can also get directly from Canon at HKD56000 too but with 3 weeks waiting list.

[HKFEVER]

Just to play the devil's advocate here...
Have you thought of the possibility that your dealer gave you a used unit instead of a brand new one? The HKD7000 discount represents about 11% off the MSRP. The exorbitant discount seems unusual for the world's top 35mm DSLR?

HKD 63,000 is the SRP. Normally they are selling at HKD 59,000.

I spend over USD20,000.00 of Canon gear in that shop. So they may let me go with the 1DsMKII price and get me again from other L lens.

[Redbird_xo]

Hope your luck will come in two days.

[HKFEVER]

Hope your luck will come in two days.

Thank you. But I don't think so.

I am starting searching for second hand shop that will buy it and they are offering USD5500.00

[blackviolet]

if you have that good of a relationship with the shop, why would you consider selling it to a used goods reseller?? wouldn't you work with the shop directly? alternatively, wouldn't you look to sell it directly to a third party and eliminate the middleman?

if it is a scratch, it's on the filter screen, not the sensor. and it would seem that going to canon directly would result in a properly checked and cleaned (and possibly exchanged) unit for no money. worst case scenario, you have to pay for a cleaning...

it just seems really odd that you're already contemplating selling it used...

[HKFEVER]

if you have that good of a relationship with the shop, why would you consider selling it to a used goods reseller?? wouldn't you work with the shop directly? alternatively, wouldn't you look to sell it directly to a third party and eliminate the middleman?

if it is a scratch, it's on the filter screen, not the sensor. and it would seem that going to canon directly would result in a properly checked and cleaned (and possibly exchanged) unit for no money. worst case scenario, you have to pay for a cleaning...

it just seems really odd that you're already contemplating selling it used...

I would like to sell it directly to someone. But I don't want to lie when buyer ask for dust question.

Because I get use to my bad luck, so I always prepare for more option even with my business move. Just to prepare. At least, I know how much they are offering.

If it is a scratch, then Canon should exchange the camera hopefully. The worst case is Canon replace the filter but dust stuck between the filter and the sensor.:(

[HKFEVER]

if it is a scratch, it's on the filter screen, not the sensor. and it would seem that going to canon directly would result in a properly checked and cleaned

I remember the first time that I brought my 1st 1DSMKII for sensor cleaning, they did not clean the 3 dust at the upper right corner, instead they but in more dust. That cost we USD50.00, parking, couple hrs. driving for some new dust.

But when I called them ask why it got dirtier, guess what they said: Some dust just stuck there and can't be cleaned. Our tech has clean the rest perfectly clean. And those dust that you saw now may be caused by our second tech that did the double check for the first tech's cleaning job. HAY what was he saying?????

He told me, try not to clean it with blower because blower will blow fine dust in the chamber (because they use compress air bottle) and they wipe sensor with their own special mixture (but a CPS member told me that Canon only mixing alcohol with H2O, what a joke). That's why all the new dust has mositure ring around them.

So I ask what can be done. he simply told me nothing can be done, so be it.

[HKFEVER]

Guess what Canon did in this 2 days:
- They open up the camera and took out the AA Filter and the CMOS.
- They found the spots were cause by the fugue and the line is on the CMOS surface.
- They replace the AA Filter and the CMOS then run though a lot of software test.

Then they called me to show me A4 size 2 pictures that took from the repaired camera and a new camera. Then ask me to pick one.

I checked the picture from the repaired and found that they repair and cleaning job is not good at all.

The new one is better, with only a big dust on it.

So I picked the new one, will you do the same selection?

Their tech told me that, this happen from time to time, fugue get in between AA filter and CMOS.

Also tiny little paint partical will fall from the shutter and stick on the filter.

[MDJAK]

HK, sorry to hear about these trials and travails. Sounds like my constant dealings with VW when my touareg, a 50,000 american dollar vehicle gives me trouble. Double-talk, over and over. They are incapable of fixing it most times.

Can you tell me what fugue is?

[HKFEVER]

HK, sorry to hear about these trials and travails. Sounds like my constant dealings with VW when my touareg, a 50,000 american dollar vehicle gives me trouble. Double-talk, over and over. They are incapable of fixing it most times.

Can you tell me what fugue is?

Sorry wrong spelling, it should be fungus.

[kb244]

If they don't replace it, talk to your credit card company and cancel the payment. You did buy using a credit card, right?

Would that work the same way in hong kong?

[kb244]

Hrm fungus in the filter, sounds like they make them in non-clean warehouses out where yet at.