New RAW Converter - RawShooter by Pixmantec

[Quinn Porter]

Just wanted to alert everyone to a new RAW converter. My initial use of the software has been very positive, both in terms of conversion quality and workflow. I have been a C1 user, but after PhaseOne's poor handling of v3.6 for Windows, I've been looking for a better alternative. This could be it! Best of all, it's currently available for free.

All the details can be found here:

http://www.outbackphoto.com/artofraw/raw_18/essay.html

[CyberDyneSystems]

Thanks Quinn,
Dowloading now ;)

[Scottes]

That looks very good. I kinda wish that I ran XP.

[kb244]

Hrm very interesting, especially how they compare it against C1Pro, I use C1Pro 3.5.1, so will definitly be looking at that alternative.

[CyberDyneSystems]

That looks very good. I kinda wish that I ran XP.

How do you run PSCS?

[kb244]

Hrm, I'm not liking it, I've already converted a couple pics I've down with C1Pro, but for some really strange reason this raw convertor got a messed up quality problem with the image, its like noise, but its blocky in a way doing it with everything, I'll upload some 100% crops if I can ever get this one to reproduce somewhat similar to my C1Pro conversion. (also I didnt find anywhere where it lets you specify what kind of output it needs to be)

On a side note, the interface is quite easy to change around, quick and such, just wish I could figure out whats up with the quality.

[Bodog]

Holy Cow! This looks great. One tiny problem. I rushed through several images that I had taken earlier today and converted with CO. They looked great while adjusting, much better than CO. However when I opened the converted jpegs in Explorer or ACDSEE, the are all black. Did I miss something, is the output crippled in the trial? Guess I''m back to the drawing board (manual)...

[Quinn Porter]

...also I didnt find anywhere where it lets you specify what kind of output it needs to be

To specify output, click on the Batch Convert tab in the upper right. Then click on More Options...

This converter is going to to take a bit of practice, because the controls are a bit different.

[Quinn Porter]

However when I opened the converted jpegs in Explorer or ACDSEE, the are all black. Did I miss something, is the output crippled in the trial?

Output isn't crippled. I've been able to successfully convert to JPEG and TIFF.

edit: It seems you are not alone. This seems to be a problem for some people running AMD based systems. Check out the Pixmantec support forum:

http://forum.pixmantec.com/postlist.php/Cat/0/Board/rawshooterfree2005

[CyberDyneSystems]

I'm getting the same thing.. Tiff output is a 23MB file that is PURE BLACK in both PSCS and ACDsee...

I actually like the interface and I think the browsing is even faster than Breeze Browser!

When it can actually convert a file to something other than a huge big pile of black,. I may be intersted :lol:

One other problem, it try's to import color management,. though it said on start up in my case it was unseccessfull,. this means that it defaulted to an SRGB profile for a working space,. and frankly,. I do not think there is any way to change the color management settings. I tried everything and could find no mention.

[CyberDyneSystems]

One more note,. the PDF file that downloaded with it for directions is corrupt?

[Quinn Porter]

I'm getting the same thing.. Tiff output is a 23MB file that is PURE BLACK in both PSCS and ACDsee...

I actually like the interface and I think the browsing is even faster than Breeze Browser!

When it can actually convert a file to something other than a huge big pile of black,. I may be intersted :lol:

One other problem, it try's to import color management,. though it said on start up in my case it was unseccessfull,. this means that it defaulted to an SRGB profile for a working space,. and frankly,. I do not think there is any way to change the color management settings. I tried everything and could find no mention.

See my post immediately above yours regarding the black conversions. As far as color space goes, I can change the output color space by clicking on Batch Convert in the upper right, and then click on More Options. You should then be able to change the working space.

There seem to be some bugs. I hope they can be worked out quickly.

[ejwebb]

Simple and fast - it is faster than Irfanview which is what I use to quickly flip through things. Nevermind waiting for PSE to open and then try scrolling through RAW images at screen size - I don't even bother. I like RawShooter at first glance. Can't wait for more time to test the quaity - off to bed for now!!

[kb244]

Hrm ok here we go, I tried to mainly use automatic in both to see how that would go, also trying to tweak the white balance as needed ( as auto from either wasnt perfect ). Here are crops from both of 600x400 size being 100% crop of the bee area.

RawShooter's crop
http://www.karlblessing.com/images/share/RawShooter_0791.jpg

C1Pro's crop
http://www.karlblessing.com/images/share/C1Pro_0791.jpg

The Weird Effect I Initially noticed in the first few conversions
http://www.karlblessing.com/images/share/RawShooter_odd.jpg

Maybe I'm just not doing it right. Also neither were fixed up with photoshop other than straight Tif to Jpeg resave.

Also the other thing I noticed is when getting the tiff and/or jpeg out of RawShooter, despite "Exif" being selected in the Meta Data, I get this with RawShooter

Exif Properties

ColorSpace: 4294967295
PixelXDimension: 600
PixelYDimension: 400


Tiff Properties:

Make: Canon
Model: Canon EOS DIGITAL REBEL
XResolution: 300/1
YResolution: 300/1
ResolutionUnit: 2
Orientation: 1
Date Time: 2005-02-10T02:02:25-05:00
Software: Adobe Photoshop CS Windows


Now from the Jpeg that was converted from the tiff that came From C1Pro

Exif Properties

Make: Canon
Model: Canon EOS DIGITAL REBEL
Software: C1 PRO version 3.5.1 for Windows.
Artist: Karl Blessing
CopyRight (alt container)
- [x-default]: Karl Blessing
ExposureTime: 1/320
FNumber: 40/10
ExposureProgram: 4
ExifVersion: 0220
DateTimeOriginal: 2004-07-14T12:10:26-05:00
DateTimeDigitized: 2004-07-14T13:10:26-05:00
ExposureBiasValue: 32/32
MeteringMode: 5
LightSource: 10
FocalLength: 50/1
FlashpixVersion: 0100
ColorSpace: 4294967295
PixelXDimension: 600
PixelYDimension: 400
WhiteBalance: 1
FocalLengthIn32mmFilm: 80
ImageUniqueID: 960312806-2070791
ISOSpeedRatings (seq container)
- [1]: 200
Flash
- Fired: False
- Return: 0
- Mode: 0
- Function: False
- RedEyeMode: False


Tiff Properties

Make: Canon
Model: Canon EOS DIGITAL REBEL
Orientation: 1
XResolution: 72/1
YResolution: 72/1
ResolutionUnit: 2
DateTime: 2005-02-20T02:01:49-05:00
Software: Adobe Photoshop CS Windows
ImageDescription (alt container)
-[x-default]: Capturefile: I:\Raw_Dump\CRW_0791.CRWCaptureSN: 960312806-2070791.81175Software: C1 Pro for Windows
Copyright (alt container)
- [x-default] : Karl Blessing
Artist : Karl Blessing


Note even tho you say Exif for meta tags etc, RawShooter wont do it right.

[CyberDyneSystems]

Thanks Quinn,. I dropped in on the support forum,. added my two cents to the AMD controversy ;)

And Yes, I too am running AMD.

[CyberDyneSystems]

Karl,
Looks you may be running into a color management issue too? (looking at the bee images)

[kb244]

Karl,
Looks you may be running into a color management issue too? (looking at the bee images)

Even so why so far apart between two appz? And what bout the exif info not being ported?

Also RawShooter doesnt seem to handle color management like C1Pro can do in advanced mode.

[CyberDyneSystems]

Sing along,...

"Oh,. I'm a beta, he's beta, your a beta, she's a beta,.. wouldn't you like to be a beta tester too..."

I like the explanation as to why it's still free,. Vs. the reality of the "not ready for prime time" app,.. :lol:

I mean won't run on AMD,. ? That's a rather sizeable thing to miss before it ships :mrgreen:

.
.
<====== Look my post count went binary!

[tommykjensen]

Sing along,...

"Oh,. I'm a beta, he's beta, your a beta, she's a beta,.. wouldn't you like to be a beta tester too..."
:lol:

[tommykjensen]

<====== Look my post count went binary!

Haha so You are temporarely down to 22 posts

[kb244]

Hehe, well heres another set of comparism, full images.

RawShooter
http://www.karlblessing.com/images/share/RawS_Sensei.jpg

C1
http://www.karlblessing.com/images/share/C1_Sensei.jpg

I did auto WB and auto Exposure on both, RawS had that "Indoor Normal" set, However despite I changed the "DSLR Noise Reduction" in C1 to absolute lowest, and RawShooter to lowest, theres a bit more noise in RawShooter than in C1.

Also even if it's beta , the point is to find the flaws duh.

[kb244]

Perhaps would be good if others here could post some comparism and such, so that its not just me.

[Scottes]

How do you run PSCS?
Win2K Pro

[chris.bailey]

IF (and at the moment that is a pretty big IF) you use a Intel WinXP machine (and as I got a stonking deal from Dell on dual Xeon Workstations for work, one of which is at home on "extended test", thats me), the workflow is REALLY nice to use. Its much faster than CS and more intuitive than C1. If they can sort out the bugs in the next few weeks it would seem to be a winner.

[kb244]

IF (and at the moment that is a pretty big IF) you use a Intel WinXP machine (and as I got a stonking deal from Dell on dual Xeon Workstations for work, one of which is at home on "extended test", thats me), the workflow is REALLY nice to use. Its much faster than CS and more intuitive than C1. If they can sort out the bugs in the next few weeks it would seem to be a winner.

I quite agree, other than the end result of the way I made the pictures, getting things in like color management, fixing the exif data stuff, maybe getting a bit more detailed on the settings as an option, but other than that the layout, how quickly you can change the layout, it's feel and speed are quite nice.

[CyberDyneSystems]

Yeah,. I really do like the interface,. they now have AMD Athlon incompatibility listed as a "known issue" ... so that's like 1/3rd of the PC market out the window! :(

[CyberDyneSystems]

Win2K Pro

For some reason I thought PSCS only ran on XP.. duh...

[Bodog]

Anybody check the company info? Former employees of Phase One. Interesting... Thought the layout looked familiar. Expect to see legal activity by Phase One in the future. ;)

[kb244]

Not if the system was created from scratch, also cant copyright a layout, but a design you could, so far its not really similar in terms of a law. But its definitly not the first time an ex employee or part owner try to start up their own company, my guess would be enough years has passed since the release of the first version of C1Pro , that the ex-partner was now released from any kind of confidentiality or non-competition agreement within a timeframe. I've heard ( though unverified ), that the folks that started up AMD were former intel engineers.

[slejhamer]

Tried it. Has some really unique characteristics. The Fill Light slider is roughly equivalent to the Photoshop shadow/highlight tool and is really helpful.

But it adds a weird texture to the image. Here's a 100% crop of some blue sky, which after processing in RSE looks like canvas:

[slejhamer]

P.S. The above was converted RAW to TIFF, then finally to JPEG for web. The texture is NOT jpeg artifacts.

Capture One is better.

[maderito]

I'm really impressed by this product. I processed a few standard and mixed lighting images with excellent results.

I am a very frustrated with Capture One, but I keep returning to it because of its convenience for batch processing. I've never been impressed enough with its "superior" color conversions to favor it over others RAW converters. This new product looks as good if not better than CO as a batch processor and has some useful tools for tweaking color and making tonal corrections.

The key thing for me is whether this product will be supported and improved in a professional manner - something that CO hasn't accomplished for its DSLR market.

It seems unlikely that it will continue to be free. So before getting too comitted or addicted to this product, it will be a wait and see for me.

I am also curious to hear what the RAW conversion gurus have to say about the quality of the conersions. Comparing 2 conveters is really hard and tends to invevitably favor the one with which your are most familiar (and thus most skilled).

Too bad abou the AMD problem; doesn't affect me but it's already lead to a lot of very negative posts on an otherwise promising product.

[CyberDyneSystems]

Aaaaaaaaargh! I really wanted to try this! Now your making me jealous :)

[Bodog]

Aaaaaaaaargh! I really wanted to try this! Now your making me jealous :)

I'll bet the AMD problem will be fixed by next week... :D

[CyberDyneSystems]

Well,. there really going to want to do it fast or I may just get ANGRY! They wouldn't like me when I'm angry! :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Bodog]

I hear their site is kryponite protected... ;)

[chris.bailey]

I am also curious to hear what the RAW conversion gurus have to say about the quality of the conersions. Comparing 2 conveters is really hard and tends to invevitably favor the one with which your are most familiar (and thus most skilled).


I processed a dozen or so well known shots from my 1dMkII through CS, C1 and RawShooter and I actually like the RawShooter output best (most of the noise issues can be got round by using the noise sliders, though CS and C1 are better in terms of noise). I always find in CS that after the RAW conversion I always tweak the levels again and I have never got good results in C1. With RawShooter you can produce Tiff images that are ready to crop and print making for a really fats workflow for volume prints.

My grumbles are not having the option to set default settings (the default sharpening is a little too much IMHO etc) and the slightly awkward manner in which the settings for one shot are applied to others (useful for studio work where lighting does not change over a batch). Also on a high res display the some of the buttons are too small.

What I do like is the snapshot ability so you can try different mixes and then choose between them.

If they can sort out the niggles, it would probably become my RAW converter of choice

[iwatkins]

I've been playing with this for several days now and I'm very impressed with the output. Sure, the interface still needs a little work and I would like to see dual monitor support (e.g. the controls on one screen and the main view on the other). But apart from that, very good.

On my system, Intel 3.0Ghz, 1Gb RAM, XP, this thing flys. I'm guessing almost twice as fast as PSCS.

The workflow suits me, especially the fact that it saves the TIFFs to disk first and then you can have it open them all in PSCS as it converts in batch. I can see this becoming my RAW convertor of choice.

Like Chris I would like to see better handling of default settings etc. though.

Cheers

Ian

[Pekka]

Can't comment the quality at all. All developed photos I get are pure black....

The explanation is "No Athlon XP support": http://forum.pixmantec.com/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/48/an/0/page/0#48

[billhercus]

Running AMD 64 and no problem with conversion into PSCS.

Like it so far ..... early days though ....

[CyberDyneSystems]

Well,. the all black issue is not relagated to AMD procesors,.. if you read the "all black" thread on there forum you begin to see this pattern break down.

PII users, Dual PIII users, PIII users, Celeron users.. etc.. seems so far the only CPU not listed is the P4.

[Pekka]

Hope they get it corrected soon. The software does look good.

[picnic]

Well,. there really going to want to do it fast or I may just get ANGRY! They wouldn't like me when I'm angry! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Just a thought--I posted this on their forum also and it was confirmed. They are at PMA in Florida---a long way away from Denmark--so I wouldn't expect things can be corrected until they get back to Denmark.

Also--Michael is the original developer of Capture One (which is my RAW conversion app of choice).

I've been doing quite a number of comparisons with C1--still not sure how I feel about it. I love the color output of C1 with Magne Nilsen's profiles for my bodies (D30/60/10D) so we'll see how RSE handles color as it goes along.

Diane

[picnic]

Well,. the all black issue is not relagated to AMD procesors,.. if you read the "all black" thread on there forum you begin to see this pattern break down.

PII users, Dual PIII users, PIII users, Celeron users.. etc.. seems so far the only CPU not listed is the P4.

I'm P3/1GB RAM/XP Pro with no problems at all.

[CyberDyneSystems]

Sorry if my post was unclear,. I did not meant to infer that the software was not functioning at all with the proicessors listed,. only that on Rawshooters' forums in the thread listing systems with this particualr problem,. it is now no longer just AMD cpus.

So apperently merely having an Intel does not guarantee you will not be faced with this issue.

the pentiums start to show up on page four or five;
http://forum.pixmantec.com/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/13/an/0/page/0#13

[mbze430]

There are certainly alot of Capture One users here. Has anyone using Bibble Pro try this new RAW converter?

[samdring]

Been using RS and find it excellent - 2 issues though

1. No crop facility - a chore for those of us using nothing more than converter software.
2. Spent this afternoon wondering why some of my files did not carry exif on conversion - pretty sure its only for those where I had deleted the THM file. Some little devil on this site told me they didnt do anything ;)

[iwatkins]

Spent more time with this now and I'm more and more impressed all the time.

Apart from the interface issues I like it a lot.

I especially like the quality of the images in the shadow areas compared to the PSCS RAW convertor. Hardly any noise in comparison and that is without using the noise reduction widget.

I'm sold, it just needs some polish to the interface, oh and the minor issue of it not working on a ton of PCs :)

I've tried C1, Bibble, Adobe PSCS, Canon stuff and I still think this one is the best and by far the fastest.

Cheers

Ian

[yb98]

I don't know if someone mentionned it already but this is the first raw converter (after photoshop of course) which accepts the adobe DNG format. This is useful because now I can convert my old Powershot S30 files to DNG and then convert them with this soft. I have tried some conversions but I can't tell if it's better. I guess I need some time to learn how to achieve the best combination of the conversion parameters. Does someone has some tips ? Is there any sequence in which the parameters must be applied to achieve the best result ?

[CyberDyneSystems]

It seems that Athlon 64 is working,. at least in some case.