Give me reason

[ilya]

I need your help

I need to convince my better half that we need a 1D Mark II.

I need reasons why I need a Mark II over the 10D.

The truth is that deep in my heart I'm fine with the 10D.

But I'm kind bored with it, and I just played with the II, and its pretty cool.

Here are the discussions so far

I can trade it in to my local store with one of my old lenses, and get the Mark II for $3k. I'm also getting a nice bonus, and a tax refund - so its a non-event financially.

My best argument so far has been that - with the 8. something megapixel I can take much better pics of you and the kids - better detail, etc. Her comeback is that the pics i take are just fine.

Better AWB, EttlII and noise handling are lost on her.

Got any ideas?

[Belmondo]

Ilya:
Best bet....tell her you need a 1Ds MkII. Compared to that, the 1D MkII will seem like a real bargain.

Also, remind her that the 10D could explode with no warning. (Well, it could.)

Oh...one last thing.

Tell her you'll give up your girlfriend.

[CyberDyneSystems]

Tell her that the 10D does not work with Canons 1D MkII data verification system,. which she will need in her defense case after she kills you when she sees the bill.....

[Persian-Rice]

You know what? to be totaly honest I think we need to talk you out of buying one. If you don't need one, then spend your hard earned cash on a vacation or something.

[neil_r]

They are both black with a white logo...... tell her that you decided not to go for the Mk II and instead put your 10D on a course of steroids :D

N

[mbze430]

I have to agree with persian-rice. If you can't think of a reason to get the 1D MK II, that means you have no need to upgrade. You should just go out and take pictures, and enjoy it. You'll know when you need something better as time goes.

[Cadenza]

I have to agree with persian-rice. If you can't think of a reason to get the 1D MK II, that means you have no need to upgrade. You should just go out and take pictures, and enjoy it. You'll know when you need something better as time goes.

Apologize for sounding like a grandmother, but I agree
with the above as well. Rid yourself of the disease of
irrational consumerism, the 1D MK2 is a $4K piece of
equipment with a planned obsolescense cycle. Besides,
Canon will eventually release a 20D level camera with
a 1.3x crop factor.

So be good to yourself and buy another lens, and then
donate the rest to Tsunami relief charities -- the people
in the developing world, which we so love to photograph
during our trips, need more help than you need a 1D MK2.

Regards, Cadenza

[RoB_m]

http://rexthewonderhorse.com/rob/rejected1.jpg

[Geeeyejo]

I just went through the same bargaining (albeit at a smaller scale) with my wife on why I desperately needed to get the 10D (just had the S1 for 2 months, etc.) Only thing is I want to keep the S1 too! Talked her into it though! Now to sell the rest of my posessions on Ebay....

[HKFEVER]

Ilya:
Best bet....tell her you need a 1Ds MkII. Compared to that, the 1D MkII will seem like a real bargain.

Also, remind her that the 10D could explode with no warning. (Well, it could.)

Oh...one last thing.

Tell her you'll give up your girlfriend.

I second these. Ask for 1DsMKII and backup a little bit settle with 1DMMKII.

[sdommin]

The truth is that deep in my heart I'm fine with the 10D.

That's all the reason you need. Buy some lenses if you have some extra cash lying around.

[chris.bailey]

If you really need us to give you reasons to justify it then you dont really need it. You could of course do what I did, go out on a Friday night, drink a bit, drink a bit more, get home, click on BUY IT and leave the justification bit for when it arrives

[ilya]

So lets recap, this is what I have so far, please feel free to add. I want to subsequently make this white paper available to others in the same predicament (mods feel free to sticky)

1. I want to.

2. It makes really cool shutter sounds. I could capture sooo many more precious moments with the higher frame rate and buffer thingie.

3. It takes much better pictures then any other camera

4. 10D could explode without warning (thanks Tom - though I can't use the other excuse cause it just ain't so :) )

5. It envigorates the local economy, so all of NJ benefits. Plus the federal profit taxes partially go to funding the Tsunami relief efforts.

6. 10D can't be used in a defense case because of something CDS said.

7. I need shutter speeds approaching 1/8000 of a second because there is a hummingbird that comes around during summer in bright sunlight.

8. The kids will just have to do better in school or be really good in a sport or benefit from working through college because we should encourage self-sufficiency when it comes to a college education.

9. I like the buttons on the left

10. With the Mark II I could easily start shooting weddings and take on fashion assignments.

Feels like a good list, but feel free to give me further advice, and please please please do draw more pictures and/or diagrams. I am a highly visual person.

[Nic]

Buy it and worry about the consequences later. I mean - you only live once!! Hopefully she'll only be cross for a day or so or she might tell you to sleep on the sofa - then you'll be able to take photos all night.

[Tom W]

Spot metering.
45-point AF system with higher accuracy
AF at f/8
Big, bright viewfinder
viewfinder shutter
8 frames per second
1.3X sensor size

If none of this stuff makes her want you to have the 1D Mk II, then consider the 20D instead.

[HKFEVER]

Sofa is good deal, backyard is not.

[TammieO]

ilya,
11. MII is heavier than 10D. Every time you use it will be a mini workout, so you'll build more muscle and be in better physical shape. (Try to say it without laughing)

[Neens_wa]

Ahhhh, must re-word "the camera takes better pictures". This is my personal pet peeve - stems from when you show someone an awesome shot and they say "Wow, your camera takes really good pictures" AUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGH!

The list of reasons TO buy a Mark II is infinite. As for talking you OUT of buying it...
I would wait. Could you not invest that money in some stellar "L" lenses instead? SLRs will come and go like early PCs... however, good glass is classic, and will always be by your side. Price used glass - you lose very little money when you go for the "L".

As a 10D owner, I've decided to invest in the glass. It was a difficult decision, but after reading reviews on Fred Miranda (and others), and renting the glass w/my 10D - the Mark II is put on hold - not easily, but not has hard a decision as I thought it would be.
I also think Canon is going to do some spiffin' up with the 20D, or in that neighborhood...

Neens
(who will be ordering this week:
24-70 f/2.8
70-200 f/2.8 IS
and a 1.4 telex)

[Citizensmith]

http://rexthewonderhorse.com/rob/rejected1.jpg

:):):):):):):)

Lets face it, you don't need one at all. Sure you want one but that is very different. If you have to spend money get some nice glass. A 1D2 with sucky glass would be a horrible thing.

[Steve Parr]

My best argument so far has been that - with the 8. something megapixel I can take much better pics of you and the kids - better detail, etc. Her comeback is that the pics i take are just fine.

I used to tell my wife, when I wanted a new guitar, that I could write her a new love song on it. In nineteen years we've been married, I've written one.

After I got the third guitar like that, she wised up.

However, she once told me (well, okay, more than once) that she couldn't understand why I needed more than one guitar. I then played two of them for her, back to back. Her reaction was, simply, "Oh... okay..."

If you can show your wife examples of photos taken with both, and point out the obvious differences and benefits, it just may work...

Steve

[Jack W.]

Every time I read a thread like this, I think to myself.......
Geeeeeeze, it's nice to be single.

[ilya]

Hmmm. You all make such wonderful points.

Are you saying that the camera doesn't take better pictures?

I also heard that the automatic modes on the Mark II are so much better because they are just smarter. Well, I think for $4k they better do all the thinkin' for you?!!

Anyhow, I'd like to add to the list of the persuasive reasons to get a Mark II:

11. Tammy's idea - yes, that's a great argument, I'll get the biceps and probably six pack abs as a result. She ought to like that! http://www.photography-on-the.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif

12. You look more like a pro. So people will respect you more.

By the way, does it shoot video?

Ilya

[Mogwyth]

Well I want/need a 20D. Solution teach wife to use the Rebel , she wants to take birdie pictures. Then once she gets the hang of it, I mention that we can't both use the camera, we'll have to get another one. Viola 20D:lol:

Minor flaw is if she turns out to be better than me she'll want the 20D:cry:

[DocFrankenstein]

Ilya... how about this?

1) You spend 6-8 k on lenses, one by one.

2) Then, with all that investment in glass, the 4K for MkII are gonna seem like [insert comparson for something really small]

:lol:

[ilya]

Every time I read a thread like this, I think to myself.......
Geeeeeeze, it's nice to be single.

Jack... you're probably right. Just to put a face to the name, here's a snapshot of my wife. We was just messing around one day. Turned out ok, I think, but the Mark II would have been sooo much better http://www.photography-on-the.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_cry.gif

http://home.comcast.net/%7Eicantor1/inka2/images/Inka205_jpg.jpg

[ilya]

No wait, here is one where I just told her I want to get a Mark II - speaks for itself - now you know what I'm dealing with. I've got no chance :cry: :cry: :cry:

http://home.comcast.net/%7Eicantor1/inka2/images/Inka207_jpg.jpg

[KelliShaver]

...I wish I looked like that after having the kid. Heck. I'd have been happy to look like that *before* having the kid. That said, no, she does not look pleased. ;)

Just to put it in perspective... the camera is $4k With the trade in, you're paying $3k.

$4k was the down payment on my house!

That's a lot of money, no way around it. Even if you did get a big refund and it won't financially strain you, $3000 will buy a lot of things. New furniture, a nice vacation, a semester of college, a few mortgage payments...... I started a business on not much more than that.

Now, all of this isn't to say that you don't have any business buying the camera. I'm all for getting something you enjoy if you can afford to do it. I don't think one should do it in excess, but then, I don't think one camera qualifies as excess.

Tell your wife she's very pretty, because she is. Show her the difference in cameras. Show her that it's financially doable without putting any unnecessary burdon on your wallet. Chances are, she probably had at least a few plans made for the income tax return. I know we start figuring out how to spend ours around August.

Then hope for the best. :)

[ilya]

$4k was the down payment on my house!



Where in the heck do you live??

PS, thanks for the sentiments, that was 4 months after the birth of our second boy...

[pradeep1]

So be good to yourself and buy another lens, and then
donate the rest to Tsunami relief charities -- the people
in the developing world, which we so love to photograph
during our trips, need more help than you need a 1D MK2.

Regards, Cadenza

Yeah...I was planning on getting a 20D. But then the tsunami hit and I donated $1000 for relief efforts and had to forego my 20D. I don't regret that decision. :cool:

[pcasciola]

$3000 will buy a lot of things. New furniture, a nice vacation, a semester of college, a few mortgage payments...... I started a business on not much more than that.Not here in New Jersey. $3000 is only one quarterly property tax payment, half a semester at a private middle school or high school, and for me, about 4 months of gas and electric. It's getting insanely expensive to live in N.J.

[KelliShaver]

Eastern Kentucky.

Yes. I do wear shoes.... even in the summer. :)

[ilya]

Yeah...I was planning on getting a 20D. But then the tsunami hit and I donated $1000 for relief efforts and had to forego my 20D. I don't regret that decision. :cool:

Good for you. My company does a matching charitable contribution which I participated in. I gave around a 17-40L equivalent.

[pradeep1]

Not here in New Jersey. $3000 is only one quarterly property tax payment, half a semester at a private middle school or high school, and for me, about 4 months of gas and electric. It's getting insanely expensive to live in N.J.

You need to move down to Georgia...much better weather, and cheaper. :p

[ilya]

Not here in New Jersey. $3000 is only one quarterly property tax payment, half a semester at a private middle school or high school, and for me, about 4 months of gas and electric. It's getting insanely expensive to live in N.J.

Hey neighbor. Its still not nearly as bad as California, where I spent much of my life. Though the property taxes are lower, but a $1m gets you a two bedroom shack in many places in norcal.

[Jack W.]

No wait, here is one where I just told her I want to get a Mark II - speaks for itself - now you know what I'm dealing with. I've got no chance :cry: :cry: :cry:

http://home.comcast.net/%7Eicantor1/inka2/images/Inka207_jpg.jpg

After seeing the pic you posted, I'd say you ain't NEVER getting that new camera.
BTW, she's beautiful, so maybe you'd be better off spending that money on her.
I have a gf that I'm nuts about. After I bought a 20D for myself and made sure it was a good buy, I bought one for her for Christmas.

Hey, there's an idea......maybe you can get a good deal somewhere if you buy 2, one for you and one for her......tell her it's a great hobby that you can share with each other....spend more time together...etc., etc.

[Jack W.]

Not here in New Jersey. $3000 is only one quarterly property tax payment, half a semester at a private middle school or high school, and for me, about 4 months of gas and electric. It's getting insanely expensive to live in N.J.

You can say that again. In the near future I'll be building a new house in Florida.
No more shoveling snow..........
No more absurdly high gas bills...........
And no more rip off New Jersey property taxes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

To say nothing of estate and inheritance taxes!!!!!
My uncle recently passed away, and I'm the executor/prime beneficiary of his estate.
New Jersey is one of only a handful of states that still nails you when you die.

[pcasciola]

Ilya, I was over in your area today, at Ryder Furniture on 27 a little north of you.

And yeah, Northern California is WAY out of control. A couple of years ago my neighbor moved to the Bay area and had to pay triple what his house sold for here to get an equivalent house, and, he only lived here for 5 or 6 years and made DOUBLE his investment on the house here!!!

Anyway, I've also been considering this whole 1D Mk II upgrade thing, but I'm torn between trading in my 20D, keeping my 20D as a 2nd body, or getting a 350D or something as a 2nd body. Not just to have a 2nd body, but I also don't want to give up the 1.6x factor which I like having on the my 300/4L.

If you are mainly shooting portraits of your wife (she's gorgeous btw), and the kids, you may not really get much from the upgrade. For me, shooting sports, I think with 1D Mk II's 45 point AF system and faster focus, my percentage of keepers will go way up. The viewfinder is clearer and brighter, the LCD is double the resolution, 8fps could be useful for me at times. and it supports the faster SD cards in addition to CF.

[MDJAK]

I must be a very lucky man. I tell my wife I want something and she tells me I deserve it and I should get it. And I'm being serious. When she wants something, I tell her to get it also. Money has never come between us and it is one secret to a marriage with very little rancor. No, we're not rich. We are very happy, though.

I don't always "need" what I want, but when I want something, I give it some thought, and if I still want it, I usually buy it.

Spanky was once sitting at a lunch counter and the waiter asked him if he had money. He said no. The waiter said, then how do you expect to eat? Spanky said, I don't 'spects to, I just want to.

As someone above said, you only live once. I say live life to the fullest. I love toys. I have lots and want lots more.

[Belmondo]

I
And yeah, Northern California is WAY out of control. A couple of years ago my neighbor moved to the Bay area and had to pay triple what his house sold for here to get an equivalent house, and, he only lived here for 5 or 6 years and made DOUBLE his investment on the house here!!!

I retired from Bay Area real estate about 4 years ago. Actually, I didn't really retire. I still have an active broker's license, and have an agent working for me in San Jose. He recently listed a house in Saratoga for $2m, and it sold in less than a week for $2.2m. There were 7 offers and the successful buyer is paying all cash and wants to close escrow in less than two weeks. Saratoga is a nice place, but you could've bought that same house just a couple years ago for about half that much.

[nosquare2003]

Are you saying that the camera doesn't take better pictures?



I'm sure that the camera does take better pictures.

Compare a self portrait photo with a 10D and a 1DMKII, you will find great differences in your facial expression!

[Jim Larson]

Ilya: Great photo. . .

. . but the secret to this photo is not the 1D-II.. I suspect the secret is the off camera strobes!!!!

The 1D-II is indeed tempting. . but I will wait of the 20D replacement. I am *certain* it won't be a 1.3 crop camera. . .but *maybe* it might get the 45 pt AF system. :)

I was getting bored with my 10D.. .but then I got a second flash . . .a ST-E2. . .and have been having a blast!

I have been really waiting for a good lens. .. and the 60/EF-S macro just ain't it! I have been looking at $30K boats instead.

[Tom W]

I'm sure that the camera does take better pictures.

Compare a self portrait photo with a 10D and a 1DMKII, you will find great differences in your facial expression!

Especially if you are looking at the credit card bill for each camera respectively. :)

[Tom W]

I have been looking at $30K boats instead.

As an ex-boatowner, I can only repeat the old saying:

"the two happiest days in a boater's life are the day he buys his boat and the day he sells it".

You'll be better off with a boatload of Canon glass than the boat it rode in on. IMHO, of course.

[Belmondo]

Well, I don't know about the rest of you guys (and gals), but I'm personally offended if someone tries to take my picture with a camera that costs less than $4,000. Maybe that's why there are so few photos of me. :confused:

I don't see why Ilya's wife should be happy about having her photos taken with anything less than a MkII. It just hasn't been properly explained to her yet.

[Tom W]

Well, I don't know about the rest of you guys (and gals), but I'm personally offended if someone tries to take my picture with a camera that costs less than $4,000.


Check this out - the "over $4000" field is shrinking again.

http://www.bestpriceaudiovideo.com/products/product_detail.asp?Inventory=3201&Show=D

[Jay J]

If you're not in debt and have a cash flow that allows you to have a reasonable surplus every month with plenty of slush funds and money put aside for the kids college then there is one good reason why you should go out and buy that camera:

"LIFE IS SHORT" Sooner or later you won't be here. So if all the "grown up" stuff is taken care of then throw some caution to the wind and live a little. It's not like you got a drinking problem, a gambling problem or a woman problem. You just want a stinking camera.

Live life my friend and tear off a little bit for yourself.

Jay J

[pcasciola]

Check this out - the "over $4000" field is shrinking again.

http://www.bestpriceaudiovideo.com/products/product_detail.asp?Inventory=3201&Show=DWow, and free shipping. That's pretty good. But I think I'd rather go for the extra $250 and get it from B&H. They will definitely be around for years to come, while some of these other places seem to come and go.

Belmondo, so you're saying just like 580EX's can save lives, 1D Mk II's can make our wives happier than our 10D/20D/300D? :) :)

[Belmondo]

Belmondo, so you're saying just like 580EX's can save lives, 1D Mk II's can make our wives happier than our 10D/20D/300D? :) :)

Absolutely. In fact, the increase in their happiness is exponential. If you really want to make her happy, buy a couple 1Ds MkIIs

[nosquare2003]

Especially if you are looking at the credit card bill for each camera respectively. :)

Do you mean his wife?

[ilya]

I may burn in hell for this thread, but this all has been mostly tongue in cheek :D

I do want a Mark II, but that's the only part of this that was sincere :D

The shots of my wife were done using 2 AB's - giant octabox, and a reverse umbrella in my basement studio. I am a little offended no one said "wait that can't be just a snapshot?!!!" :)

I have plenty of good lenses, and on occasion, I even use some of them. My biggest draw to the Mark II is the megapixels - as I'm doing lots of big print stuff, the Ettl II and the AWB. The FPS are nice but not primary.

But thanks to everyone who had sage advice :) :D

[ilya]

Well, I don't know about the rest of you guys (and gals), but I'm personally offended if someone tries to take my picture with a camera that costs less than $4,000. Maybe that's why there are so few photos of me. :confused:

I don't see why Ilya's wife should be happy about having her photos taken with anything less than a MkII. It just hasn't been properly explained to her yet.

I think that's the best one yet!!!!!

I'm going to try this. Be back in a few. Honey, its a lowly 10D :) Nothing less then a Mark II will do....

[clemjj]

Save the $$$ and invest it in some new glass. If you wear out your 10D, drop it in a lake or have it stolen then buy what you can afford. No need to buy what you don't need just for the sake of having "more power". The truth is that unless you put the photos of your kids into Photoshop and zoom in 200% you wont notice the difference between the two cameras.

[ilya]

Ilya: Great photo. . .

. . but the secret to this photo is not the 1D-II.. I suspect the secret is the off camera strobes!!!!

The 1D-II is indeed tempting. . but I will wait of the 20D replacement. I am *certain* it won't be a 1.3 crop camera. . .but *maybe* it might get the 45 pt AF system. :)

I was getting bored with my 10D.. .but then I got a second flash . . .a ST-E2. . .and have been having a blast!

I have been really waiting for a good lens. .. and the 60/EF-S macro just ain't it! I have been looking at $30K boats instead.

If you like the STE2, you'll love strobes. Priority though for sure is 30k boats. :)

[trustwoody]

In some ways it is a bit like asking a bunch of fisherman if they should do the fly in trip or the fishing from the river bank near their house. It seems like your audience in going to be biased in a way that favors what you want. If you are really asking this question honestly I can hear that what your wife says is at least somewhat important to you. I can say that if you are in a stable place financially and this not fundamentally a financial question then maybe it is a marriage question. If it is a financial question and you can't afford the camera and it will not produce an income for you then I think the answer is don't spend the money on it. If it is a marriage question then bank on your wife. She will be with you much longer than the camera. If you are being sincere in wondering what to do about your wifes opinion, turn the decicion over to her and tell her you value her far more than anything you own. Each road leads somewhere, make sure you want to go to the place the road you are choosing is taking you.

[Tom W]

Wow, and free shipping. That's pretty good. But I think I'd rather go for the extra $250 and get it from B&H. They will definitely be around for years to come, while some of these other places seem to come and go.


Well, they've been around since 1982 and have a good reseller rating:

http://www.resellerratings.com/seller1859.html

Still, I had not heard of them until very recently, and I haven't done business with them yet. I probably will, but not $3800 worth of business, or anything close to that.

[pradeep1]

Ilya you have a beautiful wife.

[Mills]

If it is a non-issue financially, don't bother even telling her in the first place. Right after you give her the beautiful new 2 carat diamond stud earrings (that you will buy right after placing the order for your new toy) pull out your new MK II to take her picture. She won't even notice! :evil:

[Raj]

wow, I feel like a very lucky man as my wife dosent objects ... actually when I went to purchase 20D, she was ready to see me getting a more expensive camera... However I know I wont be able to use it so I settled on 20D which in itself is too good for me.

I havent read all the messages by all members so apologies if I am repeating someone BUT, I guess you first need to convince yourself you need it, then only you may be able to convince her :-)
May be deep down you know you dont need 1D so much & hence are hunting for reasons to get it...
(sorry for being little judgemental)

This being said, as someone already mentioned, if the new camera is not a financial issue then just go get it. "I wanted it, i was capable to get it & I got it" will be enough to justify the purchase to yourself, however IMO satisfaction will not be as great as you really needed it & got it...

Also
Ilya, consider yourself lucky too :-) because she is keeping a check on you. God knows before meeting my wife how many impulsive purchases I have made, all dumped in some corner in my home. Wives makes sure to some extent you dont do that :-)

Last but not the least, she is very beautiful !

[René Damkot]

Don't make up excuses for your wife. She may be looking a lot less nice then. Just think it over for yourself: Do I NEED this camera, or will I be better off with an other lens /20D/whatever. Once you've made up your own mind, I'm sure you'll be able to convince your wife. Nice 'snapshots' btw....

[ilya]

UPDATE -

I have the 1D II in my possession.

Consensual purchase.

This camera is a pretty good upgrade. Here is one of many first shots. Just a quicky studio set up ~ I like it. I also shot the dog at 3200 iso, and he looked bothered but came out pretty good. I won't bore you with those snaps.



http://home.comcast.net/%7Eicantor/NikaSlide/nika1d.jpg


And a big ole crop

http://home.comcast.net/%7Eicantor/NikaSlide/nika1dcrop.jpg

[pcasciola]

Congrats, Ilya. Looks great.

[Belmondo]

Well done, Ilya. Which approach did you use? Did you have to sell your soul?

[ilya]

Well done, Ilya. Which approach did you use? Did you have to sell your soul?

Not quite. I think I was just so annoying that she finally said shut up already, lets go get your camera :lol:

By the way, I visited the stickies on top of this board, and you guys keep a clean house. Really liked the EOS sticky, nice going CDS. Found everything I needed - CF settings, the Chuck guide, and other stuff. Thanks.

[Belmondo]

Not quite. I think I was just so annoying that she finally said shut up already, lets go get your camera :lol:

Why not? That's what they do to us. :lol:

[pcasciola]

Why not? That's what they do to us. :lol:Which? Annoying us, or telling us to shut up. I get both. Especially when I talk about buying a 1D Mk II or 300 f/2.8L. :)

[sparker1]

Congratulations! Now, where is the picture of your lovely wife wearing those new (read larger) diamond earrings?

[lkorell]

Because it's there? :)

[DionM]

As a noble man once said, seek forgiveness not permission :)