580EXII comes tomorrow, game tomorrow night-any help greatly appreciated!

[ashleynaugust]

I am a total amateur when it comes to flash photography, but am hoping that I can figure out something so that I can use it at tomorrow night's football game. I read the "read me first" and 4 chapters of the intro guide in the sticky, but am still not sure if I understand correctly a couple (okay, very very many) things.

I will be shooting with my rebel XTi, Sigma 70-200 f/2.8, and (provided overnight shipping comes through) a 580EX II.

Last night I shot at a JV football game on practice field-it was pretty dark, and even at f/2.8, 135mm, 1/200-1/160, I will have to push exposure during PP. I actually used my pop up flash a few times when the action was close and it helped, so hopefully the speedlite will improve my keepers. My problem is that I won't have much time to practice it before the game starts.

Is there any thread or tut that I could read about night sports photography? If anyone could recommend some starting point settings (I normally shoot in M, RAW+jpg) to start with I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks in advance, and I apologize for the dumb newbie question, I just really would like to get a few keepers before the season is over. I'll read anything I can, I just won't have any hands-on until tomorrow.

[BIGTUFFGUY]

it really is just practice, practice, practice...
I took mine out for a lingerie shoot two days after i got it. I read every article and tidbit out there. There is no substitute for using it in the field though. You need to know how much light you have, where it's coming from and it's temperature.

In your case your speedlite should be the only major source of light so use your ETT-L and check your results after every shot.

[Scott McLoud]

No such thing as a "dumb newbie question" - but i agree its down to practice. Read the manual from front to back, and read it again. and practice and practice again some more :)

[Dermit]

i use a flash when shooting football. Not many people do, mostly because it's hard to get shots at night games that do not look like flash shots... which are typically not a good look.

One of the most common problems when using flash at night for football is you are usually shooting at subjects quite a distance away. This increased distance usually means you are are going to get a lot of red-eye. So expect it and just deal with it.

Another problem with night football is that the stadium lights are predominantly downward pointing which means a typical shot with no flash and exposed properly will get you shadows on the faces of the players due to the helmets. It has been found that the best position for the flash is actually to be mounted under the camera. This way you can get some light up under the helmets and see their faces.

So i use a monopod and mount my flash on the pod under the camera with a superclamp. One things to watch for though is unflattering shadows cast onto the opposite side spectator stands from the flash hitting the players. A low mounted flash means the shadows will be above the players and really looks bad. It's therefore more desireable to shoot at such an angle where this can be minimized.

[ashleynaugust]

Thank you for your replies. I found this, I'm guessing this setup is similar to what you mean-I won't have that for this game, but perhaps in the future: http://www.davehoffmannphoto.com/imageEngineer/2008/07/night-football-with-flash/

I hate to be intrusive, so I will probably only use flash when absolutely necessary. I wish my body handled more than 1600 ISO...

I should be shooting in Manual mode, with ETTL, and any suggestions for other starting points for the flash shots (to be tweaked when tested with actual lighting, of course)? I know I shouldn't need the 1600ISO and f/2.8, correct? I thought I could maybe get a little more DOF and less noise on the flash shots, right?

[Dermit]

Yes, a very similar setup to what i shoot with.

Do not worry about being instrusive with flash on football. I have NEVER had a complaint from a player or a coach when using flash. Most players don't even realize that you were using flash until you mention it to them.

i go back and forth between manual mode and aperture priority. And this is where there are two schools of thought when using flash on night football. One way you can do it is to still try and expose properly with the camera settings only seeing the available light and using the flash as a fill. The other method is to dial down the exposure in camera to the point where a no flash shot will get you silouettes of the players but some of the available light contributing to a small part of the exposure, then relying on the flash to make the proper exposure. By doing this a lot of photographers are able to shoot down around ISO800 with a shutter at max flash sync (1/200 or 1/250) and aperture wide open. This method helps minimize ghosting for slower shutters since the available light contributes so little. The drawback is that there is a better possiblity that it will look too much like a flashed shot unless you are really careful about angles and how tight you zoom.

[Dermit]

Keep in mind that if you are just using the flash for fill you might be pushing shutter speeds greater than the max sync speed so you will have to put the flash into high speed sync mode... which reduces the effective power of the flash itself.

If it feels like you are pushing the limits of your gear for shooting night time high school football it's because you are... it's a pretty tough thing to shoot well and even when you get to where you are finally exposing decent with decent freezing of action you still have to get the shot..., timing, angles, etc.

[bobbyz]

Check out sports forum for flash football. Dennis and other folks have very valuable information. FM also had a thread about a month ago.

Basically you want to use flash for your main exposure not the ambinet light so starting point f2.8, ISO800, 1/250 and flash at 1/4 power. Both camera and flash in manual mode. No Av mode and no flash as fill only.

Since you will be shooting at 1/250 (limited by sync speed) you want flash as main source of exposure to avoid blurring.

If you need to adjust exposure, changing aperture is faster than changing power on some of the flash units. Use f2.8 when subject is far and f4 when subject gets closer.

You will need to mount flash either high up or down below the lens. I use home depot hardware and mount 21" below the lens on my monopod. Tried using RRS wedding pro bracket and flash wasn't high enough. Someone (Scott I think) suggested using bogen flex arm with Superclamp.

[bobbyz]

I hate to be intrusive, so I will probably only use flash when absolutely necessary. I wish my body handled more than 1600 ISO...


Why do you think flash is intrusive?


I should be shooting in Manual mode, with ETTL, and any suggestions for other starting points for the flash shots (to be tweaked when tested with actual lighting, of course)? I know I shouldn't need the 1600ISO and f/2.8, correct? I thought I could maybe get a little more DOF and less noise on the flash shots, right?

Last weekend I was using f2.8 at ISO1000, 1/250, flash at 1/2 power. I should have used f4, ISO800 as ambinet was getting into my shots and causing the blurring. Exact settings depend on the ambient light levels at your field.

[Dermit]

Available light drives which method i use. There are some fields i shoot on where i can get 1/500 at ISO1600 which is fine with the 5D as far as noise goes and 1/500 is not bad for freezing action... espcially the hits where the action is slower than a full out run. In these cases I use flash as fill only and get a good keeper rate. On dimmer fields I may choose to switch to the flash as main light source method. But I always shoot in ETTL since the distance of the action is so dynamic a manual setting on the flash would mean having to compensate the exposure on the fly be either dialing the flash power up or down, the ISO up or down, or the aperture up or down. Quite franky when a play is coming at me I am not fast enough to dial it in and get the shot... and you never know for sure when it's coming your way.

As for the mode to shoot in on camera I use Av if I use the available light as my main light source, and manual if the flash is my main light source. I use Av for available light since the lighting varies so much on different parts of the field.

[ashleynaugust]

Thank you so much! You've helped immensely.

I think the lighting condition of the field is decent to good compared to most H.S. fields, it is as well lit as could be expected, probably better than most, but I still expect the main source of light to be flash (guessing comparing the lighting to the practice field set up I attempted last night). I'd love to be able to shoot ISO800 because noise at 1600 is awful.

I may print out your replies and bring a little cheat sheet in my camera bag tomorrow, I don't think I trust myself to absorb all this information at once. =) I forgot about the sports forum, I will check there next.

I had thought that flash might be obnoxious/intrusive to the players, but other photographers on the sidelines often use it, so apparently it isn't a problem, and is definitely allowed on the field. I'd just hate to have someone blaming my bright light for a fumble !

[Dermit]

Good luck, and be sure and post some of your shots in the Sports forum... good or bad. It's the best way to learn.

One other thing. It's very tempting to shoot in burst mode (spray and pray) for sports action. But in my personal experience for shooting football (and many other sports) it is far better to learn to anticipate the action and pick and choose when to shoot. Shoot, evaluate, learn the timing, shoot again, evaluate, etc. You won't have much of a choice anyway with depending on flash for main light as it will not cycle fast enough for rapid fire... and even if it did with an external power pack you risk a flash unit meltdown. It's just better to time it right, shoot less.

Some of the best shots are going to be when the ball carrier encounters the defense, either with a hit/tackle, or a redirection of running. At key moments like this the actual motion of the action slows down and will benefit you since you are fighting shutter speeds somewhat as the available light comes in to play. Shoot tight, and crop tighter... but don't forget to include key elements in the shot. The face is important especially if an interesting expression is there, also important to get the ball in the shot.

[wcameron]

Hey here's one more thing that might help. You can actually download the user's guide for teh 580 EX II here: http://files.aoaforums.com/I3705-580EXii.PDF.html. It'll give you time to read up on it before you get the flash.

wcameron

[silvex]

Before using the 580EXII (or ANY flash) ask permission from the teams' coach else you WILL be tossed out of the game.

[Dermit]

Before using the 580EXII (or ANY flash) ask permission from the teams' coach else you WILL be tossed out of the game.

I've shot MANY games on many fields, have never asked permission and have never been tossed out... but I am sure asking will never hurt, except that the coach might think it's a bad idea and not allow it just because he thinks it will cause problems. I've talked to many players and none of them have ever indicated that it's a problem and most mention that they never even noticed.

[Dermit]

I shot JV last night and realized one more thing that I do that I forgot to mention here. I mount my flash on my monopod with a superclamp which means it's mounted at a funny angle so I have to reposition the flash head itself to point it onto the field. This means that the auto-zoom in the flash does not auto-zoom and track the lens you are using. Since I shoot my 70-200 at 200 most of the time I manually dial in the flash zoom to the max, which is 105mm on the 580. This will help get the light out there on the field where you need it. Of course if the flash is mounted where it is a normal orientation it will auto zoom with the lens and you don't have to worry about it. But in my situation if I do not manually dial it in I think it defaults to something like 24mm which spreads the light way too wide and therefore has a hard time reaching out very far.

[bobbyz]

Before using the 580EXII (or ANY flash) ask permission from the teams' coach else you WILL be tossed out of the game.

What? Have you shot night time high school football?

[ashleynaugust]

Thanks Dermit!

I will double check but I really don't think flash will be a problem as I know a pro who shoots there for his site and he uses flash every game, we had a conversation about it last week. Not to mention all the other people (moms, aunts, uncles, newspaper & yearbook staff) who walk on the side with their popup flashes.