Terror (Violent)

[DrGrounds]

Any comments would be appreciated...http://x-grounds.com/forum/2.jpg

[cactusclay]

The tonsils really ad a three dimentionallity to it. Just kiddin, nice shot.

[Belmondo]

I find photos depicting violence abhorrent, even when they are obviously staged and technically well constructed.

IMHO, this is not art. It's not even interesting photography. If there is any 'quality' to it, it's might be that it's reminiscent of old True Detective magazines.

[IanD]

I find photos depicting violence abhorrent, even when they are obviously staged and technically well constructed.

IMHO, this is not art. It's not even interesting photography. If there is any 'quality' to it, it's might be that it's reminiscent of old True Detective magazines.

I agree. In todays world, in any country, this would be considered in "poor taste". Of no value.

[elbirth]

maybe I just have a different sense of "taste" or sense of humor, but DrGrounds, I think it's a cool picture. The knife actually looks fake to me, but can't tell for certain.
Otherwise, I think it's rather interesting, seeing the mugger with a smirk on his face, because if this were real life, most likely that would not be the case, as I'm sure the woman would be struggling.

[FlipsidE]

I honestly don't see it as in "poor taste." The only bit of criticism I might have is that it looks a bit too posed.

FlipsidE

[DrGrounds]

I usually shoot a different theme every week, I have a long list of themes and last week was the violence theme. I personally believe that I have achived my goal if I touched the viewer's feeling, eather its happyness, seduction, or even sorrow. Even though you can tell its staged I think it still awakes certain feeling in everyone of us.

P.S. This shot is very personal to me since the model is my mom!

[scottbergerphoto]

The content of your picture is repugnant to me. It makes light of violence against women, which unfortunately is an all too common occurrence. In addition, the picture appears staged. What is the message about violence that you are trying to convey? - It's funny to see a knife at a women's throat? Seeing women frightened is cool? Women are here for my amusement? Those are the messages I get from your picture. If that's the message I was supoposed to get, you succeeded. If not, then you should reconsider. Just because you can post something, doesn't mean you should.
Scott

[DrGrounds]

"It's funny to see a knife at a women's throat? Seeing women frightened is cool? Women are here for my amusement?"
I am not sure you interpreted this picture that way, there is nothing in there that says cool or funny about it, this is a very serious topic and it expresses an emotion very familiar to all of as. Everyone has their own fears some people afraid of bugs some people are afraid of height but how do you capture that emotion? Most photographers shoot glamour (including me) but have you tried capturing things that rather hard to express on screen? Sure all you have to do for glamour is to get a good looking model set your settings right and shoot. I on the other hand am trying to capture more difficult feeling, hunger, fear, love... I tried to share my result with other photographers.
Yes, I admit the topic is not suggested for all audience, thats why I pointed it out on the title, but violence is around as and we cant just ignore it. All I am saying is that people should be more open minded and start exploring and documenting the world around us in its full color.

[johnellisphotography]

This was the first thing that came to mind.

DrGrounds.. if you dont see the humor in this... I'll be happy to remove it.

Thanks

[DrGrounds]

In addition to that I would like to point out that mass media is full if violence, its even filled to the point of making me sick to my stomach, but it doesnt stop horror and thriller movies to be produced, they keep gaining millions from box offices, are those movies not considered art?

"[I] Just because you can post something, doesn't mean you should.[/]"

I see the point you are making, and I respect it but I you dont want to see different perspective of photography on this forum and just look at somebodys baby (no offence to anybody they all look lovely) then you should outline that in Posting Guidelines.

[johnellisphotography]

Dr Grounds.... I just realized that the poppy self portrait was by you too....

Ya know.. .people might not like the subject matter of this pic... but that aside.. I'd like to see more of your work. Its got a very surreal and Poppy look to it. Very vivid and kinda outside reallity. It reminds me of some of the new highly saturated stuff coming out of japan. Do show more please.

[DocFrankenstein]

It's provocative, therefore productive, therefore influential and thus worthy of attention.

[DrGrounds]

Dr Grounds.... I just realized that the poppy self portrait was by you too....

Ya know.. .people might not like the subject matter of this pic... but that aside.. I'd like to see more of your work. Its got a very surreal and Poppy look to it. Very vivid and kinda outside reallity. It reminds me of some of the new highly saturated stuff coming out of japan. Do show more please.

Thats exactly my point, I shoot in many different styles, and you can be sure I'll post most of them, I'll defenatly post tomorow...

[ssim]

Technically a very good image. However for my tastes anything that symbolises or promotes violence against women (or any group for that matter) just isn't appealing to me.

[Mills]

Doesn't do much for me.

[Belmondo]

At least we've established that Mom's a good sport.

[Alexia]

DrGrounds, I would love to continue seeing your work around here. Very different and obviously making people think. :p While the photo obviously looks staged, it is very well done for the subject matter.

For all those bickering about the violence, the picture obviously wasn't taken to promote violence. We're all adults and know better than that.

[froman98]

I like this shot. It makes you think. Is she REALLY terrified? Is he really going to hurt her? Could it be husband and wife roleplaying? Either way, I'm not a fan of violence, especially towards women. I don't look at this picture and think about it depecting violence as comical and/or promoting violence towards women. The photo obviously looks staged. I think it's a great shot that makes you think about it. It seems that when a shot like this sparks negative criticism, it certainly has captured its audience and got the message across!

BTW, your mom has really nice hands!!

[wintoid]

The last time I was this amazed by the reactions was vcutag's male nude, but this is even more amazing because there's nothing there you don't see in an average american blockbuster movie, and yet it has brought out the urge to censor! It's also not my reaction, which is a personal thing.

Seems like a good photo, but doesn't push any of MY buttons. I'm more stimulated by the discussion, and glad you've stayed around rather than taking offence! Nice one.

[scottbergerphoto]

In addition to that I would like to point out that mass media is full if violence, its even filled to the point of making me sick to my stomach, but it doesnt stop horror and thriller movies to be produced, they keep gaining millions from box offices, are those movies not considered art?

"[I] Just because you can post something, doesn't mean you should.[/]"

I see the point you are making, and I respect it but I you dont want to see different perspective of photography on this forum and just look at somebodys baby (no offence to anybody they all look lovely) then you should outline that in Posting Guidelines.
Your photo is still here. It wasn't censored. That doesn't mean that if you post something that others find objectionable, that you won't hear about it. It's a two way street. Freedom of expression runs both ways.
You still haven't said what message you were trying to convey by the image. Is there one? Are you relying on the shock value alone? I think these are valid questions.
Scott

[neil_r]

It is an interesting picture, To be honest I did not know what to think when I first saw it. First I was shocked, as I did not expect to see something like this (I know there was a warning, but I thought it might be ironic) then I looked some more and thought what a well executed picture, and the fact that it does look so staged in that it has an orange background not an urban scene and the fact that both models are looking directly into the lens takes some of the more “uncomfortable edge” off it. I then read the posts in the thread and was really surprised by some of the reactions.

This is a well exposed, well composed picture of a subject that is very difficult to come to terms with, but it is an image that we face every day in our cinemas, on our televisions and even in our cartoons.

I think we need to be careful when we start moralizing, because it means that we start having to draw lines - i.e woman being threatened with knife unacceptable, naked woman looking sensual and available acceptable. I am not sure I want to head down that road. There are photographers that take exceptional pictures and yet sail close to the wind in there subject matter (Robert Mapplethorpe and Jock Sturges to name but two) yet there work is still valid and can be appreciated.

I think that the very fact that this picture has started this debate shows it has value.

Having said that I too preferred your self portrait, but then again it was a “safe” image and I guess that says more about me.

N


<edit> I have just noticed that this is my 800th post.... not bad for somone who threw his toys out of the pram and left :o

[Belmondo]

All the arguments that have been advanced in support of the whimsical side of this photo could also be applied to things like pedophilia. If this had been a staged image showing the humorous side of child rape, would we all be so forgiving? Have we degenerated so much as a society that the satirical treatment of an act as violent as that being depicted in this photo should be considered fun? Good lord. I hope not.

It was also mentioned previously that there was great stir over another member's posting of photos that showed male genitalia. That is simply not a fair comparison. The photos in question were artistic, and arguably tasteful. They were a depiction of the human form, and not a light-hearted depiction of horrendous crimes of violence.

I concede that images like this do not run afoul of any of the established guidelines; technically, they are not obscene by generally accepted definitions. This is not to say that they are welcomed by everyone who visits our site, nor should those who find fault with them be criticized for expressing their opinions.

[Belmondo]

<edit> I have just noticed that this is my 800th post.... not bad for somone who threw his toys out of the pram and left :o

It's the new avatar. The headwear just sets you off nicely and encourages others to be welcoming. :lol: Congratulations on 800.

[neil_r]

It's the new avatar. The headwear just sets you off nicely and encourages others to be welcoming. :lol: Congratulations on 800.

One day I hope to have headwear like yours, but I fear that day is a long way off :D

N

[jgbeam]

I think what is missing with this picture is context. Why was it made? Is it a pulp magazine cover? Works for that. Is it a statement about violence? It sends a mixed message to me. Is it supposed to invoke feelings of terror, as the title suggests? Doesn't work for me, looks too phony. Most pictures have a place in our mind, whether we like them or not. We know the reason for landscapes, baby pictures, sports, glamour, porn, abstract, whatever. But why this picture? Or is the "why" the point?

Here's a stabbing picture I shot a couple of years ago.

http://img2.imagevenue.com/loc256/a88_Jeckyll1.jpg

Mr. Hyde stabs Lucy on her bed. From Jekyll & Hyde the Musical. This was a very violent scene, as were many from this play, but the play has a strong message and this scene is a climax in the story. It is in context but unless you know what the context is you could look at this one image and only see violence. BTW. this was shot from the stage left wing. The actor shows the knife before stabbing but the audience does not see the actual stab.

Jim

[charlesu]

This is obviously staged. Almost campy. But I don't know what you were going for. If you wanted real terror, why not make this b&w, use harder lighting and maybe keep the attacker in the shadows. Add some photo grain to give it sort of a crime scene photo look.

That said, I don't really care for the photo or the subject either. There's too much real pain and suffering in the world. I live in the 15th largest city in the US and though crime is not as bad as in some places, we hear of people being killed, often for no reason, far too often. People doing nothing wrong are being shot so that their car or cash or whatever (virtue) can be taken.

[ilya]

Compositionally and subject-matter wise its a waste of space. That's without getting into the morality arguments, as this is a photo board and you posted a photo.
Technically the lighting is flat and uninteresting

[karusel]

Technically a very good image. However for my tastes anything that symbolises or promotes violence against women (or any group for that matter) just isn't appealing to me.

How exactly does this image promote violence? How does this image promote violence against women.

Well, I don't like violence either, but I'm not blowing things out of proportions like some of the above posters and have yet to detect a moral problem with the discussed photograph.

I do however have a small critical opinion on it - it's not realistic enough...

Also:

[Jonny]

IMHO she looks like she is about to laugh. her eyes do not display terror to me.
I agree that violent images are not really acceptable in todays society but i don't mind if people post them or not, why should my opinion really matter above anyone elses?
It doesn't really offend me as i don't find it truly convincing. Technically good though, hardly any shadows. I wonder if you would get a more menacing feel by lighting from below?

[Fer]

I don´t like it, but technically is good. We have too much violence in this wold, we don´t need more... :(

[karusel]

What, you mean movies, tv news, newspaper headlines? Or did you mean Guantanamo, the wars in Afganistan, Iraq and those that will be coming soon? This is just a photo, and not a bad one, don't be a hypocrite.

[Fer]

What, you mean movies, tv news, newspaper headlines? Or did you mean Guantanamo, the wars in Afganistan, Iraq and those that will be coming soon? This is just a photo, and not a bad one, don't be a hypocrite.

If you are refering to me, I am not a hypocrite. I am just tired of all the violence around my city (have been robbed twice, one kidnapped in my car and pointed with a gun) so no, I don´t consider myself as a hypocrite...

And that is exactly why I don´t watch the news anymore!

[DrGrounds]

What, you mean movies, tv news, newspaper headlines? Or did you mean Guantanamo, the wars in Afganistan, Iraq and those that will be coming soon? This is just a photo, and not a bad one, don't be a hypocrite.

Why would you call me hypocrite? Mass media (tv news, newspaper headlines) was not such a good example but what I was trying to emphasis in that post is that violence can be expressed in a form of artistic notion, as an example I used todays cinema which gets enormous amount of attention from general public. It was my responce to one of the posts which claimed that this image cant be looked upon as art.

[DrGrounds]

Opps it seems like " hypocrite" wasnt thrown at me, if thats the case ignore the post above...

[Fer]

Opps it seems like " hypocrite" wasnt thrown at me, if thats the case ignore the post above...

I think I am the "hypocrite"... but I already responded on my last post...

[karusel]

Yes, now I do understand your position, Fer. I for instance could not bear to watch Irreversible past some point in the rape scene. Still, this image is far from that, you can see it's acted, it's in a studio, there is no knife-motion-blur, all static, the woman's hands and body aren't tense and clenching in desperation and so on. I wouldn't even find it bothersome, but that's just me, I also don't understand the fuzz about the words like nigger or retard, some people get all pissed off about them (even without them being said directly to them), to me they are just words, just like the above studio photo is just a studio photo. ;)

[Belmondo]

Okay gang, This thread is getting seriously off track on two counts..

First, It has already been determined that this photo does not violate any forum rules. Please limit your comments to the photo and, if you wish, the relevance to our forum. Politics have been off-limits for a long time here, and to invoke Guantanamo, Afghanistan, or Iraq is purely argumentive and political.

Second, if we have a cardinal rule here, it's no personal attacks. Calling someone a hypocrite goes way beyond acceptable bounds of discussion here.

Please limit comments to the photo. I don't want to lock this thread, but if pocitical discussiona and/or personal insults continue, I will be forced to do so.

Keep it nice, please.

[froman98]

I think what is missing with this picture is context. Why was it made? Is it a pulp magazine cover? Works for that. Is it a statement about violence? It sends a mixed message to me. Is it supposed to invoke feelings of terror, as the title suggests? Doesn't work for me, looks too phony. Most pictures have a place in our mind, whether we like them or not. We know the reason for landscapes, baby pictures, sports, glamour, porn, abstract, whatever. But why this picture? Or is the "why" the point?

Here's a stabbing picture I shot a couple of years ago.

Mr. Hyde stabs Lucy on her bed. From Jekyll & Hyde the Musical. This was a very violent scene, as were many from this play, but the play has a strong message and this scene is a climax in the story. It is in context but unless you know what the context is you could look at this one image and only see violence. BTW. this was shot from the stage left wing. The actor shows the knife before stabbing but the audience does not see the actual stab.

Jim



Is it just me or is that bed TINY?!?!

[DrGrounds]

Lol, the action going on the bed defiantly takes my eyes from such obvious fact.

[JAZZ D.P.G.]

Though technically a good photo, content to me was ho-hum. Sort of 50's True Crime stuff.

Lacked context. Did not invoke terror, fear or loathing for the attacker. Or even sympathy for the victim.

I think the lack of surroundings detracted from the potential story of the picture.

Other thn the reactions that followed, I would have probably moved on after reading a couple of posts..........

[Ballen Photo]

I dont really understand what all the commotion is about. I see this photo in the same vein as someone taking a photo of a similar scene in a play, nothing more, nothing less.
I think this raised a lot of emotion, which IMHO, means the photo was a success.
I further think the Woman IS doing a GREAT job of conveying terror, and ESPECIALLY with Her eyes.
While we're comparing notes, yeah, I've had knives pulled on me more than once, as well as small gangs of "PUNKS" attempting to rob me while in a down town area. OK, enough of that.
I do think the photo was fairly well executed, (No pun intended). :cool:
-Bruce

[DrGrounds]

See how this photo has been used in a context, page 32 http://www.acfei.com/istock/SpringExaminer05_Low.pdf

Alex

[neil_r]

See how this photo has been used in a context, page 32 http://www.acfei.com/istock/SpringExaminer05_Low.pdf

Alex

Looks good

Was this a commisioned piece of work, if not how did they find it/you.

N

[AzzKicker]

I have no problem with the violence, its just the stageing of it I dont like. Its like, Whats the point of stageing violence photo's ?

I can undertand if its commercial use, like to maybe advertise come defense merchandise etc as I see in some catologs. But to make a photoshoot out of it doesnt do anything for me.

[neil_r]

I can undertand if its commercial use,

It was he posted the link:-

page 32 http://www.acfei.com/istock/SpringExaminer05_Low.pdf

N

[freddycr]

I'd make it BW grainy -gritty...and put it inside a pulp magazine. As such it may have some cultural/artistic value..as it is , it's just WIP to me.

[NikonF4s]

This was the first thing that came to mind.

DrGrounds.. if you dont see the humor in this... I'll be happy to remove it.

Thanks

I think the most offensive thing about this thread/post, is that Iron Maidens good name has been somewhat sullied, hmmmpff!

[22littlereasons]

And I suppose nude women bound in leather suggestively touching themselves is a better image to portray women in society today? I don't get that as art no more than this picture. But then, to each their own.

As an essay in terror I think something more subtle might have been better. Sort of the Alfred Hitchcock thing about what you don't see.

[AzzKicker]

It was he posted the link:-

page 32 http://www.acfei.com/istock/SpringExaminer05_Low.pdf

N


Ahh ok, in that case there is nothing wrong with it.

[neil_r]

Ahh ok, in that case there is nothing wrong with it.

:D

N

[mr.photoguy]

It's not my type of photography, and surely nothing I would attach my name/screenname to.

[Skitzy]

The actual woman looks very fake, and I really don't like the orange background. I suppose you went to some trouble to shoot it, but I don't see it working unless its a conceptual photograph and I don't know who would buy it, but excellent perspective and work never the less.

[neil_r]

I don't know who would buy it, but excellent perspective and work never the less.

Read the full thread, It's sold, see :-

page 32 http://www.acfei.com/istock/SpringExaminer05_Low.pdf

N

[Skitzy]

Read the full thread, It's sold, see :-

page 32 http://www.acfei.com/istock/SpringExaminer05_Low.pdf

N

Ah good :rolleyes:

[The Braun]

this is not violent