20D Sharpness

[ajwain]

I've just taken delivery of a 20D, and I'm concerned about it's sharpness.

I've read that the camera does some 'softening' of the image to make it look more natural, but I'm really not happy with the results so far.

I've been using a 10D for a year and a half now, mainly to shoot weddings, and so far the quality of the images in my opinion are far superior to the images I get with the 20D - with the same lens!

The image quality settings are on 'L'arge jpeg (I absolutely do not shoot RAW), and I've added a couple of notches of sharpening in the 'Parameters' section in the menu, as I also do on my 10D. The lens I'm using for a benchmark is an ES 50mm f1.8.

I wonder if anyone else has had a similar experience.

I'm willing to believe that I'm just not familiar with the 20D yet, and haven't had time to fully experiment, but the interface and image options are virtually identical to the 10D so I feel I already know it reasonably well.

As I'm planning on using this camera for wedding photography, and I'm getting more than acceptable results from my 10D, I'm not prepared to spend time sharpening and tweaking my images in photoshop, when my workflow involves batches of 3-400 images at a time.

Any offers of advice gratefully received.

[Matt_hil]

i never had any Problems, i'v put my sharpness up 3+ but the only time i'v had bad image quilty is when i forget to put my 580 on... :oops:

[Scottes]

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=54646 might make interesting reading.

[lomond]

Firstly welcome to the forum.

I would say, since you're an experienced 10D user, you should be reasonable comfortable with the 20D.
If you are sure all the paramaters are set properly then there must be a question mark over the camera itself.
As a 10D user I would expect the 20D image to be slightly superior.

Have you tried a few test shots in RAW to compare them to the in camera processing ?

[ajwain]

Thanks for the responses, guys.

Scottes - yes, I had read the thread, but alas this is a same settings, same technique, side by side comparison. I haven't yet used the 20D in the field; it only came today.

lomond - I haven't tried much to be honest; I didn't think I'd get such dramatically different results from the 10D when using it in the same way. I never have used RAW capture mode, but I suppose if I did it side-by-side with my 10D, it may give me an insight into what processing is being done in the camera. i'm afraid that if I have to use RAW mode in real-life situations in order to achieve the quality I'm used to, then the camera will have to go back, and I'll buy another 10D.

Thanks again for your help.

[RJSorensen]

I just want to thank the lot of you for making the rusty gears in my head start to 'whirr.' I am going to 'bump' up the ISO today and bite my tongue. Old thoughts die hard but it is a 'new' world and I got over the change from ASA to ISO somehow, I can do it again . . .

Thank you guys.

[HJMinard]

I upgraded from the DRebel to the 20D ... so not apples to apples ... but I never noticed any issues at all with mine. The sharpness, from day 1, has been as good or better than the DRebel. I haven't changed any in camera parameters and the 20D images have not required any more post process sharpening than the DRebel images - perhaps less.

[Toogy]

Compared to my old 10D, my 20D's images are much sharper and more consistant.
Alot of my 10D shots would be out of focus, don't have as many with the 20D.

So far very happy.

[Andy_T]

Might that be a calibration issue with your 50/1.8 lens and the 20D?
Maybe do a focus test!
Do you have the same results with other lenses as well?

Best regards,
Andy

[ajwain]

I don't think so, Andy. I haven't tried another lens yet, but that particular lens gives belting results on my 10D.
Also, no part of the image is sharp, and I would have thought that with such shallow DOF at f1.8 I could have found a point on the image that was in focus.
I am splitting hairs here, and had I not been working with the 10D for such a long time, I may not have questioned the 20D's resolving ability. It's just that I expected at least as much detail, and probably more given the 20's spec and reputation.

I've had a bit longer to play with it now, and I can get good results with that lens, but I have to work much harder than I did with the 10D. For example, the 10D delivered even at maximum aperture and slow(ish) shutter speed. I almost need to create ideal conditions to get the kind of quality I expect from a digital body of this resolution!

I do have an 'L' glass lens, so this weekend, when I have more daylight, I'll experiment a bit more. Also, I'm going to 'Focus' at the NEC on Sunday, so I'll have a chat to Canon there and see what they have to say.

I'll report back here soon.

Thanks for all your replies, chaps!

[Andy_T]

I don't think so, Andy. I haven't tried another lens yet, but that particular lens gives belting results on my 10D.


That's why I thought it might be calibration.
The lens might work fine on one body, but the tolerances of the focus point might just add up the wrong way on a second body.

Best regards,
Andy

[abel]

i agree my 20d is much sharper than my 10d ever was... especially with the 50mm f1.8

[mr.photoguy]

my 50 1.8 works ok on my 20D in AF in some circumstances, but I have come to realize, that I am way happier using it in MF especially if I am using a shallow DOF like 1.8 - 2.5 or so .. That way I can have the focus exactly where I want it to be.

As for sharpness with the 20D. I have no complaints, as I shoot in Raw, with the Parameters all set at 0. Then in CS, I do my adjustments, and unsharp mask.

Also I like the images from better quality lenses..
such as my 70-200 f4, I love that lense.
even my 18-55 works great.

I try to manual focu whenever possible.

[ajwain]

I must stress that I really don't think it's a focussing issue. If I shoot something like a human face, then there are portions of the image which extend behind the point of (intended) focus, and also in front of it. If the focussing is fractionally out, I would expect to see a sharp point of focus on those portions of the image which are in that plane.

I do not see this.

Also, if I light the subject brightly, and stop down the lens to increase the depth of field, I would expect to see at least some part of the image sharp.

This is not the case.

Generally, all parts of the image have a gentle softness which is just not present with the 10D. I have yet to try USM in Photoshop, but as I said before, if this is necessary to achieve a sharp image then the camera is no good to me.

Thanks again for your help.

[HJMinard]

Unfortunately ... sounds like a lemon. If I had invested that sort of money and I was that unhappy, I'd definitely be returning the item or sending it in for repairs. I wish you luck with resolving your problem.

[ajwain]

Well, I'll talk to Canon at the weekend, but to be honest, it looks like I should have bought another 10D instead. It's not just the image quality; there are quite a few aspects of the design and handling which would lead me to prefer the 10D. Perhaps I shouldn't be so impetuous and jump into the latest technology just because it's new. The 20D may be a better camera spec-wise, but different strokes suit different folks, I suppose.

Thanks guys for all your help anyway.

[Andy_T]

AJWain,

can you post an example?
You might take a look at this picture: http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=3052478&size=lg
Is this reasonably sharp in your opinion? (Tamron 28-75/2.8 @ 3.2, straight out of my 20D)

If you can't get results similar to this, then you might really have got a lemon.

Best regards,
Andy

[abel]

i definitely things some sample pics are in order... show us what yore talking about and also post the settings, focal length, shutter speed, f stop etc etc

[Nic]

My grandson, 14 yrs old, took my 20D equipped with the 70-300mm DO lens, on a 'safari' to a local game reserve recently.

Over a period of 5 days he took about 950 photos as well as a beautiful sunset, shooting right into the sun, on a 4GB CF card - about 5 were ruined because of over exposure. He shot large JPEG on parameter 1. The pictures were as sharp as any other 20D photos I have seen.

He is not a photographer and I taught him the previoius day how to use the camera.

As soon as my pBase account is in a working condition I will publish his photos.

[ajwain]

Yeah - you're right - I should have posted some pics inn the first place. I'll get onto it and put some on here.

Andy - yes, the image does look sharp to me, but at that magnification, so does my 20D. It's when you magnify it 20 or 30 times that the differences show up. If you showed me a close-up of the baby's eyelashes, then I could tell you whether or not it was as sharp as my 10D.