Thinking of giving up on wildlife photography...

[Trik]

...and taking up a less frustrating and disappointing hobby, like creating a man-powered flying machine.

Had a bad day yesterday, photographing birds. Nothing was close enough, or flew away before I could locate it in the viewfinder, or the lens wouldn`t lock on, or the light was bad - and so on. I was using my 300 L f4 IS with a 1.4x TC, so should have had some successes. Perhaps my camera (350D) or the lens needs a check-up? This set-up did have a jolt when I slipped over the other week, although it didn`t hit the ground (never mind my head, save the camera!). Could it be a contributory factor to the very soft pics I`m getting?

Thanks for listening
Trik :(

[scrumpy]

I'm sure everybody who takes up any form of nature photography or filming, wonders if it is all worth the effort when the results aren't what they hoped for. The frustrations are also enhanced if you are wet and cold.

Your gear is quite capable of some good shots in the right locations; a hide in the garden or at one of the many bird reserves we have in our county where you can get reasonably close.

Why not post some of your "soft" shots here. I am sure you will get some good advice on why, and how you can improve them. Also you could PM me as to your whereabouts and I'll point you in the right direction for birds.

[S.Horton]

Keep trying!

[John_B]

Trik,
If it was so easy to get the perfect wildlife photo it would take the thrill out of doing it :)
Keep trying ;)

[Trik]

Why not post some of your "soft" shots here. I am sure you will get some good advice on why, and how you can improve them. Also you could PM me as to your whereabouts and I'll point you in the right direction for birds.

I have already deleted my latest batch of duds - couldn`t bear looking at them. I think that maybe I am expecting too much of my gear. The really bad shots were of birds (waders) at least 150-200 yds away, and I did have one reasonable one of a small bird (female Stonechat), but she was only about 20ft away. We have been at Keyhaven Marshes mostly, where there are no hides. We have tried high tide, low tide, tide coming in and going out, but cannot get near enough for good shots. We live in East Dorset, England and were thinking of trying Titchfield Haven or the Arne Peninsula next? (thank you for suggesting that I send a private message, but I don`t know how!)

Thanks also to John_B and S.Horton for the words of encouragement.

Trik

[Ook]

(thank you for suggesting that I send a private message, but I don`t know how!)

You can click on a person's name to bring up a menu with options, such as sending a PM. It should look like this (using myself as an example):

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a385/Ookpik/POTN/example1.jpg

[rbern]

I hope it isn't the glass. I was planning on purchasing that same lense this month.

[S.Horton]

Just a wild guess, but since everything came out so badly I suspect camera shake, a leading cause of major frustration -- Do you happen to remember your shutter speed?

For birds in flight, mine is usually >1/1500, the higher the better.

[Mike55]

...and taking up a less frustrating and disappointing hobby, like creating a man-powered flying machine.

Had a bad day yesterday, photographing birds. Nothing was close enough, or flew away before I could locate it in the viewfinder, or the lens wouldn`t lock on, or the light was bad - and so on. I was using my 300 L f4 IS with a 1.4x TC, so should have had some successes. Perhaps my camera (350D) or the lens needs a check-up? This set-up did have a jolt when I slipped over the other week, although it didn`t hit the ground (never mind my head, save the camera!). Could it be a contributory factor to the very soft pics I`m getting?

Thanks for listening
Trik :(


Post the pics please. BIF are very hard to do.

[Mike55]

The really bad shots were of birds (waders) at least 150-200 yds away,



Way too far for birds. You have to get much, much closer than that. Try using your car as a blind, or look into getting a hide to get closer.

[weka2000]

Post up some photos so we can see what your producing and tips to help

[arizona85224]

don't give up

[Trik]

Firstly, thank you, John-Allan, for the PM instruction. I didn`t think of doing that.

Rbern : I don`t think it is the glass, as the 300mm f4 IS is a super lens and has never let me down before, but, then, I haven`t asked so much of it until we started on the waders, as most of my good bird shots have been from a few feet away. Unless, of course, the jolt I mentioned originally has misaligned something?

Sam : although I realise that IS won`t correct any wild movements, I do make sure to hold as steady as I can, and I always use the highest shutter speed available for the amount of light – and therein lies the rub, as the light was very poor last Wednesday afternoon and even cranking up the ISO to 400 didn`t help much (I don`t like going higher because of the noise).

Mike55 and weka2000 : I haven`t kept the bad pics and would be too embarrassed to post them, anyway. They really were awful – grey sky, grey mud, grey water and grey birds! No wonder my lens wasn`t up to the job, especially from so far away, as Mike said. Unfortunately, at this particular site, a hide or using the car is not an option. They are marshes and when the tide is in, the water is up to the sea wall, and when it is out it is a long way to the water`s edge where the waders are, over possibly very unstable ground and with no cover at all. Much as I love photography, I do not want to get stuck in the mud and have to be rescued by the Coastguards! I am hoping that Scrumpy will be able to recommend some sites where we can get closer to the waders…

I mentioned earlier that the camera I was using is a 350D. We also have a 450D. Would the larger number of pixels on the latter improve my shots, bearing in mind that the further away the bird is, the more I have to crop the RAW image to bring it in close? Unfortunately, a more expensive pro camera is not an option for the foreseeable future.

I shall keep trying, Arizona, but I have a tendency to get obsessional about getting good pics (a character flaw, I know :() so feel very despondent when I have such a bad day. I keep telling myself that they`re only photos, dammitall, and try to put it in perspective, but it doesn`t really help!

Trik

[scrumpy]

Trik
If you live near Arne, go there. When you get into the car-park, take the path next to the RSPB hut. This will take you to where the deer are. Later when you have half filled your card with close deer shots, head for the hide - its signposted. If the tide is in, the birds will be at your feet - well almost ;)
The area is open to all. If you are not a member of the RSPB they'll want a small car-park fee.
Good Luck.

[Trik]

We are not too far from Arne, Scrumpy, so will definitely try there if the weather is promising next week. Thank you very much for the recommendation. I just hope the tide is in at a convenient hour :)

Many thanks again
Trik

[Airedale1]

Whether or not to give it up is a fair question. Wildlife photography requires lots of patience. The need for patience cannot be over emphasized. It often requires spending hours in uncomfortable conditions, e.g. bad weather, cramped positions, having to stay very still and silent for long periods of time, etc. If you don't truly enjoy it I would say look for another genre. If it really is something that you have a passion for, then I would say stick with it.

It is not realistic to expect to get a keeper everyday you shoot. I shoot almost everyday and if I can get two real keepers a month I am a happy man.

I was on vacation this year with my family on the Outer Banks of NC and I spotted this Osprey nest. It was really too far for me to get an image that I would be happy with.

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h33/Airedale1/OBXosprey5.jpg

Even though they were too far away I went everyday for almost a week and observed them and took shots. I spent about 4 hours a day watching those two chicks and the mom coming and going from nest to find food for them and on the last day of my vacation they finally left the nest and they landed much closer to me in a tree. The light was not good but I made the best of it. I must have shot over 200 images of the two fledglings in the tree and I got a few keepers. My patience was rewarded.

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h33/Airedale1/OBXosprey3.jpg

Mom checking me out.

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h33/Airedale1/osprey5-1.jpg

You don't have to go to exotic locals either to get decent bird images. I shot these two in my backyard. Try to get as close as you can and always shoot from a stable position whenever possible. As far as equipment goes, I always want better equipment to get better shots. I would be very happy with a 500L and a 1D Mk3 but I can't afford that so I make do with what I do have.

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h33/Airedale1/MHF5.jpg

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h33/Airedale1/fixed.jpg

If you love doing it, don't give up.

[Trik]

I do realise that patience is essential, and I don`t mind the discomfort. Indeed, I have stepped into ditches, bogs and (shallow) water (and other, less savoury, things ;)) in my search for good shots - unintentionally, it`s true. I even ended up in A&E at our local hospital once because of over-enthusiasm - and may well do so again!

Each time I come home disappointed, I must remind myself of a remark that a keen bird photographer made to us. When I said that I would love to get a good photo of a wren, he replied that it had taken him 25 years to get a shot of this tiny bird that he knew he could not improve upon. Trouble is, I didn`t get into photography until quite late in life, so unless I end up mounting a camera on my Zimmer frame, I may not have that long :)

Trik

[arizona85224]

maybe try a different type of photography, wildlife might not be for you.

[ctranter]

One less potential competitor for me. :P

[gymell]

Sorry to hear you're discouraged. It does sound like you are too far away at 150-200 yards. Half the battle in bird photography is finding good locations where you can get close. The 300 is a good lens so unless you have an unusual copy, I'd suspect the distance is what's causing your problems. I get discouraged myself, but then I'll have a good day where it makes it all worthwhile. You might try setting up some feeders in your yard, or visit a local park that has some feeders where you can get close. Birding groups in your area may be able to help with good locations and opportunities to find birds. Good luck!

[Trik]

It`s not all doom and gloom, I suppose, as I have had some fairly recent successes, but this shot was from much closer, taken with the 300L f4 IS with a 1.4x TC on a 350D. And you are right, Gymell - as soon as I have a good day, I bounce back with new enthusiasm.

I said was only thinking of giving up, ctranter :cool:

Scrumpy, if you are still watching : as you will know, the weather hasn`t been reliable enough for us to chance visiting Arne yet, but we are looking forward to it.

Trik

[scrumpy]

That's a great picture there Trik :D

Better weather tomorrow - some sun at long last. Hoping to get down to Weymouth.

But then the weather is all down hill again :cry:

[Trik]

Thanks for the compliment.

Unfortunately, tomorrow is already spoken for, so it is unlikely we shall be able to get out with the cameras. However, a look on msn.weather shows that next Wed, Thurs and Fri should be fair at Poole, but this doesn`t mean that it will be, of course :) and I find that bbc weather, metoffice weather and msn seldom agree. Only way to be sure is to look out the window!

Good luck at Weymouth.

Trik

[cosworth]

When I enter photo competitions with my club I always roll my eyes at how the bird guys always win.

Well I've now sat in the reeds with a super heavy lens freezing my butt off not making a sound for HOURS with no results. It's not easy but, BUT when it does pay off it pays off handsomely and you are rewarded with a fine image.

That being said please do quit. Why? If you need a break take it. Walk right away from it. Right now I'm on hiatus. I haven't taken a shot for me in months. Shot lots of weddings this year and made some cash but haven't gone out of the house shooting for just me. A needed break.

Take yours, find your direction or return to nature with vigor. Quitters are just people who only die before taking something up again. ;)

[Trik]

...If you need a break take it. Walk right away from it...

Sensible advice, cosworth, but after the summer, with all its butterflies and dragonflies to photograph (and, this year, reptiles), I guess I get withdrawal symptoms if I don`t get my photo fix. ;) That`s probably why I was so disgruntled when I first posted. Still, living in the UK, I will have plenty of occasions to take an enforced break, as our weather at this time of the year can be really miserable and the light extremely poor.

Trik

[Bubble]

patience is the key. There were day/s that i sit out in the field for a whole day and couldn't get what i want (the eagle or osprey catching some fish). Like these group of photographers bring out the chair and camp out a whole day just for a few shot

http://www.aphanphoto.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/313.jpg

Beside patient, you need to learn how to track your subject. Practive with something easy (like duck/ swan etc)

btw, in wildflie, it is not a good idea to use TC. It will slow down your AF. 1 or 2 seconds delay = loss the oportunity. 300mm also not enough reach. (Minimum 400 f/5.6 ). Equipment could be one of the reason you didn't get good result.

[Trik]

Those photographers have some lovely big lenses, Bubble, way beyond what I could afford, alas. There is also the problem of carrying it plus the tripod and all the other paraphenalia. For some sites, it would be no problem - apart from toting the weight around. For some of my shots, though, I have had to move pretty quickly to catch up with my intended subject, which is not an option with that sort of gear. So a hand-holdable is more suitable for me, I think, and I shall just have to put up with its limitations.

I take your point about the TC. The difference in my photos with and without it are noticeable - definitely softer with - and the loss of an f stop on a dullish day is a handicap, it`s true. But physical and financial limitations mean I shall have to do the best I can with what I`ve got.

Thanks for the advice.
Trik

[Bubble]

in that case, i would recommend to sell your 300 f/4 and upgrade to 400 f/5.6 for more reach and light weight. Let put aside equipment, wildlife/bird is a hobby that you need to spend lots of time and "luck" is another factor.

Bottom line, keep trying and you will get there. :)

[Trik]

Good thought, Bubble, but the 400 f/5.6 does not have IS, which I find indispensable. Once, I accidentally turned IS off and the difference in my shots was very apparent.

Trik

[weka2000]

in that case, i would recommend to sell your 300 f/4 and upgrade to 400 f/5.6 for more reach and light weight. Let put aside equipment, wildlife/bird is a hobby that you need to spend lots of time and "luck" is another factor.

Bottom line, keep trying and you will get there. :)

That or get a 1.4 TC for the 300 F4 :lol:

[Trik]

Bubble, if you`re still there : I had a look at your gear list and photo gallery. Some superb kit and equally superb bird photos.

Weka2K : I`ve already got a 1.4x TC, but as I mentioned before, my shots are a little softer when I use it, and there is also the 1 or 2 second delay with AF that Bubble mentioned. Both drawbacks depend upon the amount of light, though, I`ve found.

Trik

[Bubble]

Good thought, Bubble, but the 400 f/5.6 does not have IS, which I find indispensable. Once, I accidentally turned IS off and the difference in my shots was very apparent.

Trik

400 f/5.6 is not that heavy and you can handheld it all day. There is no need for IS for this lens though (in my opinion). I used it for sport, horse racing and get excellent quality out of it. 100mm at long end make a different in wildlife. :)

[Seil]

That or get a 1.4 TC for the 300 F4 :lol:

...I think he said it was a 300 f/4L with a 1.4x TC in his starting post, actually.

[Froggeh]

I'd swap the 350 for the 450 as the AutoFocus (AF) performance is much better. I'd also sell both and get a 40D, as the AF performance is better by far.

Leave the TC off - softness and contrast loss are two of the problems you're having.

The 400mm f5.6 is a better lens for birding and is actually cheaper than the 300mm f4 according to camerapricebuster (UK) - perhaps you could sell second-had and buy second-hand?

[jack lumber]

When I have days like that, I go to the zoo and put it in greenbox.

[Karl Johnston]

OP: I've been having a bad month myself, it's like nothing I shoot can do a damn thing any more and the key I've learned recently; let go, breathe, and just chill. Have fun out there-that's how you get what you get.

I've been so tense with the business of photography and selling and marketing myself I haven't really had any time to shoot.

But as for you; your gear is more than capable, sometimes you just have bad days like in anything else. Take a browse on the net and get some inspiration from other wildlife photographers photographing what you are photographing. Try out new angles, a new location, climbing a tree, etc.

[camerageorge]

I found my keeper rate with the 350d and using extenders / the Canon 100-400mm was low, and an upgrade to the 40d in late 2007 helped massively. However, this is equally down to practice, practice and more practice! Photographing birds is very challenging, but great results are possible with your setup so stick with it!

You should think you're lucky that you don't paint birds, it's hard enough keeping them in one place for a a fraction of a second, let alone half an hour :)

[Dave 1942]

Trik:

I have a couple of professional Wildlife photographers that are close friends and they both told me, "Don't get impatient". They say that it took them about 4-5 years to get where they were making enough to go full time. So be patient.. Nothing that is worth doing comes easy..

Dave

[dale65bama]

Trik, I have followed this thread since Oc 2008. Glad to see you haven't abandoned the quest!

In one of your earlier posts, you mentioned wading birds at 100-200 yds. WOW. That would tax the best supertelephoto lens. Unless you can get within 30m or so, even large birds will be very small compared to the total image size.

I, too, know the frustrations of coming back without a single keeper, and occasionally not even having tripped the shutter. For wading birds, find a place you know they frequent, locate a spot to set up, then wait for the bird(s) to arrive. It may take a while, so patience is the key. I have the luxury of having a great site near my home where the waders are accustomed to people on the park trail and bridge, so they are not disturbed by my presence.

Good luck,

Dale